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Trader11
08 Jul 16 10:09
Joined:
Date Joined: 02 Jul 07
| Topic/replies: 856 | Blogger: Trader11's blog
Has anyone experienced something like this before?

Europa League game:
Stabaek vs Connah's was supposed to be an "in play" game, it was marked that way.
I was trading pre match with the intention of going in play for 10 minutes.
Sure enough Betfair decided to suspend the market and not turning it in play, for apparently no reason. Every other bookie had it in play no problem.
They didn't even unsuspend the markets at half time, it was just plain suspended.
I lost a big chunk of my bank because of this. A month profits gone.
Contacted customer service... "all bets will stand". Of course no explanation on why they failed to offer the market in play as advertised.
So, when we deposit money here, it is at the mercy of a betfair outage, or the suspend guy falling asleep, or some other reason they can't explain. Just collect the commissions and forget about the customer.
In my opinion, changing a game from "in play" to "not in play" changes the whole product a lot, and if betfair fails to provide de product they advertise, they should void all bets on that particular game.
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Report stu July 8, 2016 10:13 AM BST
So what was the reply when you asked, why did it not go inplay?

I have a feeling some matches like this say 'if this match is turned inplay...' in the market rules, but may be wrong. I guess that covers them for 'if' it doesn't?

I agree they shouldn't advertise it as an inplay match however up front if they're not certain.
Report stu July 8, 2016 10:14 AM BST
Also, did you contact them immediately (when the match started)?
Report Trader11 July 8, 2016 10:16 AM BST
Customer service representative was not even aware of this game and had no idea of what was going on, just a standard answer "all bets stand". No explanation at all. So, once you confirm your bet, even if they change the product on offer, you are fecked.
Report Trader11 July 8, 2016 10:20 AM BST
Yes, I contacted them while 1st half was being played. I could see the game was in play in 365.
A month profit's gone in just one betfair error.
Customer is not important.
Report stu July 8, 2016 10:22 AM BST
You haven't pushed for any further reply as a follow up? And was this query after the match had ended, if so you prob needed to contact them a bit earlier in this.
Report frinton July 8, 2016 10:22 AM BST
If you have been trading with Betfair since 2007, you must have a back up plan for situations like this?Situations like this happen every week it is easy to have some options open and ready just in case.Other exchanges and B365 normally have IP.You must have options if computer, services or Betfair fail you surely?
Report stu July 8, 2016 10:23 AM BST
sorry just saw your reply that it was during the game still, good.

I think you should push for a 'higher up' reply personally.
Report Trader11 July 8, 2016 10:24 AM BST
stu, like I said, I contacted them during 1st half.
The representative was not very helpful or interested, just "all bets stand".
I don't know what else to do.
Report Mike-lfc July 8, 2016 10:26 AM BST
the real question is "how the f*ck did Connah's Quay win?" Laugh
Report Trader11 July 8, 2016 10:28 AM BST
frinton, you are right.
365 limited me to cents long ago, can't play there anymore.
Quak didn't offer this game.
I was fecked, and I knew it.
Report portmanpark July 8, 2016 10:31 AM BST
trader.............how much did it cost you??
Report frinton July 8, 2016 10:34 AM BST
Since PP took over many of the later games have minimum cover. I normally check with several sources who should have the games IP and then place most bets when the games go in play ( I tend to play goals and not match results)It can be most frustrating with correct scores especially with 0-0. I also find that when there is a problem you nearly always are on the wrong side of the result. Over the years I can only have had a few go my way.
Report lurka July 8, 2016 2:06 PM BST
did they have it in play on the sportsbook?
Report mega88 July 8, 2016 2:16 PM BST
Suspends have nothing to do with betfair. They use a third party. If the company can't cover the game then it will be fully suspended leaving you either your pants around your ankles. It's in the tc's pretty simple really. Easy come easy go. You pays ya money Excited
Report mega88 July 8, 2016 2:19 PM BST
Anyway tradings for wimps

Report Trader11 July 8, 2016 2:45 PM BST
lurka,

No, it was suspended on the exchange and sportsbook.
365 had it in play no problem.
Report Trader11 July 8, 2016 2:46 PM BST
lurka,

No, it was suspended on the exchange and sportsbook.
365 had it in play no problem.
Report DirkDiggler July 8, 2016 2:48 PM BST
You should factor in things like this in your staking. You could lose your internet connection, have a power cut, anything could happen.
Report JC1326 July 8, 2016 3:41 PM BST
^ do his nuts on that earlier Debrecen game?
Report ALIEN SEX FIEND July 8, 2016 3:55 PM BST
How long into the game did you complain? Also, IMO would have been a hard game to trade in/out of. Feel for you all the same.
Report lurka July 8, 2016 4:55 PM BST
ah right. i've seen a good few matches suspended on exchange or not in-play at all and open on the SB, ie they have a feed but won't open it on the exchange
Report stu July 8, 2016 5:04 PM BST
If it was a big stake seems an odd choice for trading inplay, as there must have been pennies for a game like that?
Report Coachbuster July 8, 2016 5:33 PM BST
horrible situation - only happened to me once back in 2008 .

best in future  stick to the bigger games and swap over to Purple in dire situations

best of luck anyway Sad
Report Trader11 July 8, 2016 6:28 PM BST
JC,

Debrecen v La Fiorita : Over/Under 4.5 Goals    Showing 1 - 2 of 2 Selections
Selection    Odds    Stake($)    Bid type    Placed    Profit/loss($)
Over 4.5 Goals    *    1.90    526.00    Back         -526.00
Over 4.5 Goals    *    1.84    543.28    Lay         543.28
*Average odds: On  Off    Back subtotal:    -526.00
Lay subtotal:    543.28
Market subtotal:    17.28

Alien,

20 min 1st half.

stu,

Only 28K traded. Stabaek was drifting and I was closing my position before de game started. Plan was to leave a smaller liability on Stabaek in play, but about a minute before kick off Betfair suspended.

Coachbuster,

Yes, horrible situation indeed. Lesson learnt. Stick to the bigger games. In this case, Quack did not have the game on offer.
Thanks a good luck to you too.
Report ALIEN SEX FIEND July 8, 2016 7:01 PM BST
TBH it was late, I understand you were watching the game, however 20 mins into game, which would have had very few betting on it.
However I hate when people cannot trade when you believe you could, hope your wins come shortly.
Report Trader11 July 8, 2016 7:08 PM BST
Alien, It wouldn't matter if it was early or late, all bets stand regardless, no matter if they can or can not offer the product they advertise.
Thank you and good luck!
Report Gone_Rogue July 8, 2016 7:59 PM BST
Same thing happened to me recently (different game, though). Complained. Customer service wasn't aware of the problem then either. Was annoyed (annoying :)) enough to get a free bet as compensation. Ask for that, that's probably all you'll get. Good luck in the future!
Report freddiewilliams July 8, 2016 8:08 PM BST
a months profit....it could have been far far worse
Report Senyatta July 9, 2016 3:24 AM BST
not good enough from betfair. how can we have a bet in confidence
Report salmon spray July 9, 2016 9:32 AM BST
But if you were a straightforward punter who bet on the winner and then found that the bet was voided because some guy who thinks he is entitled to make a profit by trading had objected you wouldn't be very happy either.
Report therhino July 9, 2016 9:52 AM BST

Jul 9, 2016 -- 3:32AM, salmon spray wrote:


But if you were a straightforward punter who bet on the winner and then found that the bet was voided because some guy who thinks he is entitled to make a profit by trading had objected you wouldn't be very happy either.


Correct, and that would be the greater of two evils imo. Feel sorry for the OP and a really bad break, but I don't see how they can rectify without causing a far greater injustice.

Report Gone_Rogue July 9, 2016 10:08 AM BST

Jul 9, 2016 -- 3:52AM, therhino wrote:


Jul  9, 2016 --  9:32AM, salmon spray wrote:But if you were a straightforward punter who bet on the winner and then found that the bet was voided because some guy who thinks he is entitled to make a profit by trading had objected you wouldn't be very happy either.Correct, and that would be the greater of two evils imo. Feel sorry for the OP and a really bad break, but I don't see how they can rectify without causing a far greater injustice.


Maybe not rectify, but a free bet or some other small token showing that Betfair acknowledges the problem caused by them should be a given.

Report CJ70 July 9, 2016 10:14 AM BST
Happens all the time in the more obscure games. It's generally an error from the 3rd party stats provider.
Report Gone_Rogue July 9, 2016 10:27 AM BST
...which Betfair is responsible for. Time to take the blame and get a backup system. We pay Betfair a commission for a service. If it's not provided, they are the ones who need to pay. The customers shouldn't be penalized for Betfair's mistakes.
Report Coachbuster July 9, 2016 12:48 PM BST
did they open the market at half time Trader ?
Report Trader11 July 9, 2016 10:40 PM BST
Coachbuster,

As stated in my opening post: They didn't even unsuspend the markets at half time, it was just plain suspended.


Gone_Rogue,


Asked for the bets to be voided. It was BETFAIR'S ERROR for not providing the product they advertise. They said NO. Some sort of compensation? A free bet? They said NO, and basically feck off.

Senyatta,

Surely you can have a bet, just don't try to trade pre match or in play if it is not a major game. In this case it was a Europa League game, we are not talking an obscure Singapore 3rd division game, FFS.

salmon and therhino,


I disagree. If I sell you a computer, you go home very happy, you turn it on and it doesn't work, motherboard is broken. You come to my shop asking for a replacement. I will tell you NO, I just sell computers, internal parts are 3rd party responsibility, feck off.
This is pretty much the same, betfair offers a game as "going in play", then suddenly it is not in play anymore and your money is in the air. If it was FAIR, they should void all bets on a market that changes the conditions of the original offer. Normal business ethics.
You want a straighforward bet?? Do it in the sportsbook or do it with Pinn and get better odds than the exchange (after commission).
We all pay a high commission to betfair in order to use their site, then we should be provided with the service they sell. Should they change they service, then give your customers their money back.
Report patrick starr July 10, 2016 12:18 AM BST
tuff break dude,i think its a lesson learned in money and market management,we've all had them in various different guises on here,all a part of the rich tapestry...gl with your endeavours.
Report Senyatta July 10, 2016 2:38 AM BST
happened me before on a boxing match. luckily i hadn't used the sportsbook before so got out of it as they had it live. could have been a decent loss though. needless to say i was restricted to less than peanuts after that

it wasn't a mickey mouse fight either and was advertised as going in play. would never have touched the bet if they said it wouldn't be going in running. but i guess betfair don't care as long as they keep racking up the commission.
Report grumpyjim July 10, 2016 8:37 AM BST
CASH OUT  VERY often is not the product you expect as its never taken up happens very often .. or ?? no cash out ..?
Report Trader11 July 10, 2016 10:31 AM BST
Hi Patrick,

Thanks for your words. I feel robbed. Betfair disregard for its customers is unreal.
I disagree with you about the "money management" part. For what I do (scalping pre match) you need to use big stakes to make it worth. Yes, seldom I go in play, very rare indeed.
I agree about the market management.
Let me show you a piece off my P&L, see how slowly and little by little I earn the money?? Now, take a look at the hit I took when betfair failed to abide to their product on offer. Can you spot it? 

Football / Paysandu v Londrina : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    1.18
Football / Ponte Preta v Sport Recife : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    1.09
Football / Toronto FC v Chicago Fire : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    4.88
Football / Sol de America (Par) v Cerro Porteno : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    4.68
Football / Vasco da Gama v Brasil de Pelotas : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    3.71
Football / Seattle v LA Galaxy : Over/Under 3.5 Goals    9.37
Football / Nautico v CRB : Over/Under 4.5 Goals    3.6
Football / Stallion FC v Agila MSA : Half Time/Full Time    2.07
Football / Stallion FC v Agila MSA : Draw No Bet    0.21
Football / Libertad v River Plate (Par) : Match Odds    16.85
Football / Criciuma v Luverdense : Over/Under 6.5 Goals    -3
Football / Criciuma v Luverdense : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    5.35
Football / UCD v Cabinteely : Match Odds     6.9
Football / Athlone v Shelbourne : Over/Under 3.5 Goals    1.17
Football / Tranmere v Liverpool : Match Odds    -1.71
Football / Start v Bodo Glimt : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    0.94
Football / Weiche Flensburg v Hamburg : Over/Under 7.5 Goals    8.15
Football / Weiche Flensburg v Hamburg : Over/Under 6.5 Goals    2.78
Football / Liaoning Whowin v Shijiazhuang Yongchang : Over/Under 3.5 Goals    16.11
Football / Independiente (Ecu) v Boca Juniors : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    50.47
Football / Germany v France : Over/Under 4.5 Goals    2.28
Football / Germany v France : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    97.43
Football / Stabaek v Connahs Quay : Match Odds    -409.47
Football / Debrecen v La Fiorita : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    -6.46
Football / Debrecen v La Fiorita : Over/Under 4.5 Goals    16.18
Football / Debrecen v La Fiorita : Match Odds    4.31
Football / Fluminense v Ypiranga de Erechim : Match Odds    5.55
Football / Portugal v Wales : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    1.87
Football / Bahia v Vila Nova : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    4.82
Football / Parana v Avai : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    16.72
Football / Dundalk v Longford : Match Odds    29.89
Football / Colorado v Portland Timbers : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    2.81
Football / Sport Recife v Palmeiras : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    29.49
Football / Stromsgodset v Aalesunds : Over/Under 5.5 Goals    0.37
Football / Kansas City v Columbus : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    16.85
Football / France v Iceland : Match Odds    26.51
Football / France v Iceland : Over/Under 5.5 Goals    23.46
Soccer / Atletico PR v America MG : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    -2.66
Soccer / Germany v Italy : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    1.9
Soccer / Chicago Fire v San Jose Earthquakes : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    23.35
Soccer / Sampaio Correa v Paysandu : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    3.53
Soccer / Wales v Belgium : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    38.48
Soccer / Palmeiras v Figueirense : Match Odds    -20.33
Soccer / Santa Cruz PE v Ponte Preta : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    4.68
Soccer / Poland v Portugal : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    1.25
Soccer / Sao Paulo v Fluminense : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    0.18
Soccer / Coritiba v Atletico PR : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    6.74
Soccer / Gremio v Santos : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    8.54
Soccer / Atletico GO v Criciuma : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    15.38
Soccer / Argentina v Chile : Match Odds    62.08
Soccer / Argentina v Chile : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    1.27
Soccer / Corinthians v Santa Cruz PE : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    3.18
Soccer / Croatia v Portugal : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    12.43
Soccer / Criciuma v Bragantino SP : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    14.03
Soccer / Colombia v Chile : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    38.27
Soccer / Colombia v Chile : Match Odds    -8.25
Soccer / Sweden v Belgium : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    -32.78
Soccer / Iceland v Austria : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    28.75
Soccer / Czech Republic v Turkey : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    26.14
Soccer / Northern Ireland v Germany : Match Odds    62.84
Soccer / Romania v Albania : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    -53.95
Soccer / Mexico v Chile : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    100.22
Soccer / Argentina v Venezuela : Correct Score    13.67
Soccer / Portugal v Austria : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    -5.89
Soccer / Belgium v Rep Of Ireland : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    18.73
Soccer / Peru v Colombia : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    6.96
Soccer / Spain v Turkey : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    23.22
Soccer / USA v Ecuador : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    12.45
Soccer / France v Albania : Match Odds    7.77
Soccer / Romania v Switzerland : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    2.26
Soccer / Argentina v Bolivia : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    -4
Soccer / Mexico v Venezuela : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    129.16
Soccer / Belgium v Italy : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    20.68
Soccer / Ecuador v Haiti : Over/Under 2.5 Goals    -0.47
Soccer / Colombia v Costa Rica : Match Odds    2.72
Soccer / Argentina v Panama : Match Odds    2.63
Report salmon spray July 10, 2016 10:36 AM BST
Sorry The Trader but I disagree with you. I can't see why the exchange should be the preserve of traders and the ordinary punter restricted to old - fashioned bookies which is what you seem to want. Frankly not going in play in a fairly obscure Google match seems to me a risk you should take into account and stop whining.
Report salmon spray July 10, 2016 1:00 PM BST
My apologies Trader 11 that was a bit harsh. But you do seem to miss the point that the money you win on here is not Betfair's but mugs ( like me at football which I should really avoid ). If we all went to The Sports book you would be left betting against other traders who all expect to win.
Report Charlton2005 July 10, 2016 2:54 PM BST
seems like a lot of work for £400 a month?

push trollies around the tesco car park for 3x that and a lot less stress
Report Racingqueen July 10, 2016 11:50 PM BST
You should factor in things like this in your staking. You could lose your internet connection, have a power cut, anything could happen.

How exactly do you factor a power cut into your betting? Laugh
Report Coachbuster July 11, 2016 12:16 AM BST
Laugh
Report themover July 11, 2016 12:25 AM BST
Report Roger Rover July 11, 2016 5:51 AM BST
LOL
Report DirkDiggler July 11, 2016 11:29 AM BST
How exactly do you factor a power cut into your betting? Laugh


Don't have a months profit on a IP market for a sake of scalping a few quid and then complain when you're unable to get it out.

That's in addition to the common sense of only having a small % of your bank on a bet. That's betting 101.
Report oneyallbeenwaiting4 July 11, 2016 12:45 PM BST
traded a months profit on this piece of shít game
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