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jamesdean
30 Dec 16 14:23
Joined:
Date Joined: 15 Sep 05
| Topic/replies: 20,803 | Blogger: jamesdean's blog
This may have already been covered, but in case it hasn't..

They standards/percentages this year have been stupidly high. The Spanish boy losing to MVG with an average of 106 highlights this
as do many other overly high averages.

Have they made the boards bigger or at least the double and treble bands?  They look massive compared to normal and years gone by

I know Barry Hearn made the snooker pockets bigger to make it more 'exciting' and to attract more viwers
This led to average players making higher breaks more consistently. Fergal Obrien made 5 centuries out of 6 frames this year at the ripe old age of 46!

So are the boards easier or have all the players suddenly turned into mini Phil Taylors?
Pause Switch to Standard View The reason why the averages/standards...
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Report Angoose December 30, 2016 3:24 PM GMT
They've all had arm extensions and plan to "grow" their arms by a few inches a year until they get to eight feet long.
Report n88uk December 30, 2016 3:31 PM GMT
The boards haven't changed. The overall level has been heading upwards for years. And it just so happens you've got the top players all "peaking" at the right time for the worlds.
Report jamesdean December 30, 2016 3:35 PM GMT
Darren Webster/ Christo Reyes top players?

Both shot abnormal high %'s despite losing
Report n88uk December 30, 2016 3:36 PM GMT
There's always a few freak performances like that.

I can't find a tournament average for every player for this year. Got one to hand? I doubt it's outrageously better than last years.
Report n88uk December 30, 2016 3:37 PM GMT
There have been plenty of crap matches in the early rounds too with both players averaging below 90. It's just playing MvG and the likes can tend to draw players level upwards.
Report Angoose December 30, 2016 3:41 PM GMT
It happens in all sports when you have someone who raises the bar.
The "impossible" is then shown to be possible and others go away and work harder with mental barriers now removed.

Prior to Roger Bannister cracking the four minute mile, scientists told the world that it simply couldn't be done.
One man breaks through the barrier and the floodgates open behind him and they all rush through.
Report jamesdean December 30, 2016 3:44 PM GMT
I heard the commentator say last night that Webster was scoring way above his normal average and of course we had
Reyes breaking the record for the highest ever losing %.

If it was just a few top players then I'd take your point but it's near every player playing their best ever darts, uncanny.
Your point about raising their game against MVG is understandable tbf.

Even to the naked eye the treble bands look massive.

I think Hearn has pulled a trick like he did at the snooker.

Take a look at the double/treble bands yourself and see what you think!
Report Angoose December 30, 2016 3:47 PM GMT
You can't beat a good conspiracy theory Excited
Report wisewords December 30, 2016 5:03 PM GMT
The players play week in week out these days. It's bound to lead to a better level of consistency, less stage fright/nerves and higher averages. Darts is 10x more competitive than it was even 10 years ago.
Report wisewords December 30, 2016 5:04 PM GMT
The money involved is also a huge incentive. It attracts so many more players to the game who would otherwise have thought "what's the point?" and become full time plumbers.
Report wisewords December 30, 2016 5:07 PM GMT

Dec 30, 2016 -- 9:44AM, jamesdean wrote:


I heard the commentator say last night that Webster was scoring way above his normal average and of course we hadReyes breaking the record for the highest ever losing %.If it was just a few top players then I'd take your point but it's near every player playing their best ever darts, uncanny. Your point about raising their game against MVG is understandable tbf.Even to the naked eye the treble bands look massive.I think Hearn has pulled a trick like he did at the snooker. Take a look at the double/treble bands yourself and see what you think!


"it's near every player playing their best ever darts"... Plain

you clearly didn't watch Kevin Painter, Simon Whitlock, Adrian Lewis, Stephen Bunting, Alan Norris, Jonny Clayton etc etc etc

Report DartsnBooze December 31, 2016 2:57 PM GMT
The unicorn boards are for once not falling apart mid match. The doubles and trebles remain the same size since year dot. The difference is the wires. They are now ultra thin, hence bigger target areas. How many times do you see players not knowing what the dart has scored mid throw.

Wearing glasses is the biggest advantage of all - even bigger looking targets (joke) Grin
Report Angoose December 31, 2016 3:06 PM GMT
There you have it, an informed answer that shows how even the humble sport of darts is utilizing advances in manufacturing processes to improve the equipment .....
Report s.kenbo December 31, 2016 5:10 PM GMT
Anderson says he regularly averages 120 in practise sessions. Bringing it to the main stage is the hard bit.

Every professional player can easily check out in 15 darts for a 100 average, a dart less is about 107.
Report jamesdean January 1, 2017 1:51 PM GMT
Surely if the wires around the double and treble bands are thinner then that makes the bands bigger

So it's true, the boards are easier
Report Angoose January 1, 2017 7:11 PM GMT
The bands are the same size, the exposed area has, however, been slightly enlarged.
Now you need to make the wire dart friendly to deflect the arrow rather than out.

No doubt, there will be some eggheads in lab coats working on this as I type Shocked
Report Hamsterdam January 1, 2017 7:33 PM GMT
It's because there is a larger talent pool. Darts is truly an international thing now highlighted by the fact there are no English players in the Semi's. Reyes would be the prime example. More people playing equals a better standard. You have the European Series which is a big deal. Lots of up and coming German players etc.
Report Angoose January 1, 2017 7:41 PM GMT
It's a combination of factors, improved performance in all areas of human endeavor is a totally normal experience.

Tennis racquet and string technology allows players to get power and spin that Fred Perry could only have dreamt about whilst golf club and ball technology improvements also allow today's players to hit and control balls in a manner that their predecessors did not have access to.

That said, today's tennis and golf players are better athletes than those who played fifty years ago.
Improvements in diet plus physical and mental training methods plus increased competition ensure that.

All other sports have gained similar advantages over the years, including darts.
Not so sure about the improvement in diet for the dartists though Grin
Report Zazu January 2, 2017 3:40 AM GMT
If one player is playing really well the opponents average will naturally go up. They dont have to worry about finishing a lot of the legs and the 20+ darts legs where both players are going for doulbe 1 (the 'BDO legs') that kill averages dont occur as well
Report jamesdean January 2, 2017 12:24 PM GMT
Last night we had a new record high % for a loser, Barney around 110%.

So this is twice this record has been broken this year. Be interesting to know how long it stood before that.
Plus we had another new record high for a winner with mvg scoring 114% average (it may have been higher, not 100% sure what it was exact)  but ok, mvg is a freak so fair doos.

However

As much as players may be improving, this isn't down to anything but the boards being easier imo.
Barney is 50 this year, he's been playing for over 30 years, practices 10hrs a day and has probably been playing as much as he has this year for the last 5 or 6.

It doesn't matter what way you look at it, if the wires are thinner then the bands become bigger and easier to hit. It's simple maths

The boards are a joke. Just like the new snooker pockets which are like buckets
Report Zazu January 2, 2017 1:15 PM GMT
Do you realise the highest winning average and the highest losing average i  the same match are related?

I don't see anything spectacular with this year's averages. Lewis, Anderson, Taylor etc all 105+ players years ago
Report jamesdean January 2, 2017 1:21 PM GMT
Zazu
02 Jan 17 13:15
Joined: 06 Apr 11
| Topic/replies: 4,128 | Blogger: Zazu's blog
Do you realise the highest winning average and the highest losing average i  the same match are related?


Not sure what your point is tbf.

The last highest losing average before last night, was Reyes just days ago. In that match, MVG never got the highest ever average.
Report s.kenbo January 2, 2017 1:24 PM GMT
The players have improved drastically in the last ten or fifteen years. There's some good money to be won nowadays, which will help the development too.

Have you bet on an unders average, James? You seem to not want to believe that the players are getting better.
Report jamesdean January 2, 2017 1:30 PM GMT
Do I need to have a bet or even worse a losing bet to have an opinion, kenbo?

It has already been stated above that the wires are indeed thinner. If the boards are the same size they have always been but
the wires are thinner, does this make the double and treble bands easier or harder to hit, iyo?
Report s.kenbo January 2, 2017 1:46 PM GMT
The wires have been getting thinner for the last thirty years. In the 80's they were like train tracks.

The wires are only there to segregate the numbers, they aren't suppose to be an obstruction. But obviously you can't have a board without them, otherwise there would doubt for where the dart actually landed.

Records will continue to be broken until the standard is at its optimum. I see no reason why a 12 dart average wont happen in the foreseeable future. All it takes is for a player to play at his very best for an hour.
Report Latalomne January 2, 2017 1:47 PM GMT
Irrespective of the wire gauge (is this just hearsay or has it actually been confirmed?), I think you only have to watch to see how many 180s are placed on the proverbial pinhead these days to know what's going on.  The standard has very obviously improved.
Report s.kenbo January 2, 2017 1:48 PM GMT
Good point. It is amazing the amount of space some of these 180's take up. It would be hard to place them that tightly together by hand.
Report jamesdean January 2, 2017 1:51 PM GMT
I agree the standard has improved, that isn't in doubt.
Report wondersobright January 2, 2017 2:23 PM GMT
I'm disputing the point about the wires but imo the reason the averages, 180s count etc has gone up and up in recent years is 95%+ down to players improving imo

snooker is a little different as how the pockets play has a much greater impact on a snooker player's ability to score compared to what thinner wires do in darts imo
Report wondersobright January 2, 2017 2:23 PM GMT
*I'm not disputing
Report wondersobright January 2, 2017 2:26 PM GMT
Zazu • January 2, 2017 1:15 PM GMT
Do you realise the highest winning average and the highest losing average in the same match are related?


a point which is underplayed zazu

players who have a v high avg must score heavy and hit a high % of checkouts, hence denying an opponent opportunities to throw at doubles (therefore having a higher than normal 'scoring component' to his avg, and hence a higher losing avg)
Report asparagus January 2, 2017 2:33 PM GMT
No question that's all about the player performance. The difference in the size of the wires now compared to 5-10 years ago is minimal. It's simply down to a lot more money in the game and consequently players working much harder to get to the top. In any case the averages record which MVG broke yesterday had stood for a number of years.
Report jamesdean January 2, 2017 2:52 PM GMT
Making the wires thinner however minimal has a huge impact on the scoring (imo)  a milimeteren say, is huge on a darts board given the
size of the target is already so small. So % wise, an extra mil of target is big, 2 mil would be huge...

Totally agree the players are much better these days. Prize money, more tournies, more practice etc all come into that



but so does the size of the targets, (imo)
Report s.kenbo January 2, 2017 3:10 PM GMT
I found this online.

Wiring Systems
Wire types can be round, triangular or diamond-shaped in section maximum 1.85mm or 1.27mm minimum.

The difference between the min, and the max, would make quite a difference.
Report wisewords January 2, 2017 3:17 PM GMT

Jan 2, 2017 -- 7:30AM, jamesdean wrote:


Do I need to have a bet or even worse a losing bet to have an opinion, kenbo?It has already been stated above that the wires are indeed thinner. If the boards are the same size they have always been butthe wires are thinner, does this make the double and treble bands easier or harder to hit, iyo?


The wires have been thinner for at least 5 years, probably longer.

Report jamesdean January 2, 2017 3:23 PM GMT
Do you have any proof of that wisewords or just a guess?
Report wisewords January 2, 2017 3:27 PM GMT
From watching the darts year on year. there hasn't been a noticable difference for years. I think you've got it wrong trying to rationalize the high averages with wire size. Maybe if comparing between averages in 1990 and 2017 but not between averages in 2010 & 2017. only my opinion thogh.
Report jamesdean January 2, 2017 3:46 PM GMT
So just a guess then?
Report wisewords January 2, 2017 4:30 PM GMT
Yes, an informed opinion. You're clearly wrong. I'm surprised you can't see it, but maybe you don't follow the darts seriously.
Report jamesdean January 2, 2017 4:37 PM GMT
An informed opinion you say?

Where are you getting your information that the wires changed 5 years ago please?

Could it possibly be that you are wrong?
Report wisewords January 2, 2017 4:45 PM GMT
I didn't say they changed 5 years ago. I wrote that they've been thnner for at least 5 years. Are you suggesting the wires suddenly became thinner at some point this year, specifically to improve averages for this World Championship?
Report jamesdean January 2, 2017 5:11 PM GMT
No.

I'm saying the double and treble bands are now bigger and easier to hit. Someone else said the wires have become thinner.
That would make sense.

I've also said a few times now that the players are getting better too. This how ever doesn't take away from the point that the boards are now playing easier than before.
Report Roger The Butler January 2, 2017 5:21 PM GMT
You are all fools. Barry Hearn has put magnets behind the big trebles and the doubles. If a p1ssed bloke threw his watch on stage  from row M it would likely hit treble 20.

(Unless it was a plastic Casio digital effort).
Report Angoose January 2, 2017 5:47 PM GMT
ExcitedHappyScaredExcited
Report GRANTCKING January 2, 2017 5:54 PM GMT

Jan 2, 2017 -- 11:21AM, Roger The Butler wrote:


You are all fools. Barry Hearn has put magnets behind the big trebles and the doubles. If a p1ssed bloke threw his watch on stage  from row M it would likely hit treble 20.(Unless it was a plastic Casio digital effort).


LaughLaughLaugh

Report GRANTCKING January 2, 2017 5:55 PM GMT

Jan 2, 2017 -- 11:11AM, jamesdean wrote:


No.I'm saying the double and treble bands are now bigger and easier to hit. Someone else said the wires have become thinner.That would make sense.I've also said a few times now that the players are getting better too. This how ever doesn't take away from the point that the boards are now playing easier than before.


this, boards playing easier + players practising more

Report chavman January 2, 2017 6:35 PM GMT
s.kenbo 02 Jan 17 15:10 Joined: 05 Aug 12 | Topic/replies: 12,312 | Blogger: s.kenbo's blog
I found this online.

Wiring Systems
Wire types can be round, triangular or diamond-shaped in section maximum 1.85mm or 1.27mm minimum.

interesting in that the shape of the wire could ultimately be the difference between a bounce out and a scoring dart.

cant recall that many bounce outs and would be interesting to see stats from 10 years ago to this year
Report s.kenbo January 2, 2017 6:53 PM GMT
It'd be hard to the split bounce outs, and the darts that had bounced out off another dart.

It'll be two years today since Andersons famous '180 on the floor'.
Report s.kenbo January 2, 2017 6:54 PM GMT
Rearrange words accordingly! ^^^
Report chavman January 2, 2017 7:48 PM GMT
kenbo i fear we may be construed as darting plebs.much akin to our efforts on the hr forum Cry
Report s.kenbo January 2, 2017 7:57 PM GMT
You ain't wrong mate. SadLaugh

I had a smoke with Gary Anderson in April, that must count for something!?
Report chavman January 2, 2017 8:07 PM GMT
mixing with the stars again kenbo Grin.

who felt more privileged for the occasion though
Report s.kenbo January 2, 2017 8:09 PM GMT
You know me, I don't like to brag.

I think him meeting me though, should just about spur him on to win tonight. Although I won't take the credit for it.
Report wisewords January 2, 2017 8:12 PM GMT
where did you meet the great man, kenbo?
Report s.kenbo January 2, 2017 8:23 PM GMT
At one of the Armageddon nights. My mate was playing so I asked him to get Gary outside for a picture, and he duly obliged. Cool
Report Howdi January 2, 2017 11:35 PM GMT
I think its due in some way to the following:  Games on pro big time , lesser players not as nervous as used to spot light, all making a few quid, Grand slam averages not as high mind different boards?
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