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VardonVoo.
02 Aug 20 23:34
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Date Joined: 21 Dec 01
| Topic/replies: 5,303 | Blogger: VardonVoo.'s blog
Just caught the end as the description didn't make it at all obvious that it was about the England cricket team.
If anyone spots this being scheduled for a repeat please flag it up here.
Pause Switch to Standard View The Edge, BBC2 Sunday night
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Report VardonVoo. August 2, 2020 11:07 PM BST
Just remembered it can be watched on iPlayer.
Report Whisperingdeath August 3, 2020 11:11 AM BST
Quite an insightful documentary and a warning to all. Well worth watching and not just by cricket fans. Quite shocking at times.
Report kingscrewed August 3, 2020 7:10 PM BST
Very interesting watch especially the last half hour showing all the mental health issues that surfaced.
Hadn't seen the part where KP was almost in tears at the end of a days play before. Don't think we will ever know the full truth about the Broad, Anderson Swann and Prior alleged clique.
Report Whisperingdeath August 3, 2020 7:27 PM BST
What was more shocking was the lack of understanding from Flower at the time. Thank God he understands now.

I remember watching Trott at the time in Aus. He looked shot to pieces. To allow him to go out and face 95mph bouncers was nothing short of almost criminal neglect. I think Warners comments were disgusting and he deserved everything that came his way.
Report kingscrewed August 3, 2020 7:47 PM BST
Couldnt agree more whispering I hadnt seen the close up of Trotts face out there before. It genuinely upset me to see. Warner is 1 of a few cricketers I really don't like as he doesnt seem to know or want to know theres a line to be drawn between banter and just plain disrespect, bullying or however else you would sum up his behaviour at times.

Hopefully now Trott has been announced as England batting coach for the Pakistan series he might be seen by some of the players as someone they are able to talk to about mental health, hopefully this wont cause further stress for Trott as he seems able to talk about it now. He and Marcus Trescothick did a vodcast a few weeks ago about mental health.
Report Try My Best August 3, 2020 9:53 PM BST
Yes I found the bullying within the England camp quite distressing as a sensitive Australian.
Report Whisperingdeath August 12, 2020 12:35 PM BST
I can understand that. Seeing so many Australian Test Cricketers cry in front of camera's and not just the ones caught out bang to rights for CHEATING is quite off putting. I thought they were tougher.
Report Fatslogger August 12, 2020 4:41 PM BST
I really enjoyed this and was very impressed at how maturely everyone had reflected on what happened to the very successful team of 2010-2012. There was quite a bit left unsaid about the catastrophic relationship breakdowns between Pietersen and several others but they managed to handle it without much recrimination and with a lot of sensitivity towards what drove players and management apart.
Report Try My Best August 12, 2020 5:10 PM BST
Must have been terrible for the players with mental problems going out to face us. I really felt for them.
Report Try My Best August 12, 2020 5:26 PM BST
Michael Atherton, England, 1994
The “dirt in the pocket" incident happened when the England captain took dirt off the pitch, put it in his pocket and was caught on camera using it on the ball.
Atherton was not fined or reprimanded by the ICC match referee Peter Burge, but the England Cricket Board took the sterner step of imposing a fine on Atherton.
It was one of the darker episodes in his career. But Atherton, working this month as an analyst during England’s two-test tour to New Zealand, has sympathized with the current Australia captain, describing calls for Smith to be banned for life as “ridiculous."

Chris Pringle, New Zealand, 1990
The gentle medium pacer got away without any punishment despite admitting to ball tampering not long after making his test debut against Pakistan at Karachi.
Television technology was nowhere near as high-tech as it is now, when every action of a player on the field can be closely monitored. And the on-field umpires were the sole adjudicators of test matches before the International Cricket Council started appointing match referees.
He took a career-best 11 wickets for 152 runs in the third test at Faisalabad’ on a batting friendly wicket, later revealing he’d used a bottle top to scratch the ball. He said he’d tampered with the ball because he believed Pakistani bowlers were also doing it. The late Martin Crowe acknowledged later that while he’d been ready to accept that Pakistan was a better team, “we were not going to accept what they were doing with the ball."

Stuart Broad, England, 2010
The England fast bowler faced accusations of ball tampering when he appeared to step on the ball with the spikes of his boot during a test match against South Africa at Cape Town. Broad stopped a rolling ball with his foot before he stood on it. He argued that he was a bit lazy because of the extreme heat and denied tampering with the ball.
No formal charges were laid despite complaints from the South Africans. Former England captain Nasser Hussain said that he had no doubt the fast bowler was wrong and “if a player from another country did the same, we’d have said they were cheating."

Just a few examples of what the pomms have done in the past regarding ball tampering. Don't throw stones Whispering and know your cricket history.
Report Try My Best August 12, 2020 5:38 PM BST
Near enough every nation has been accused of tampering even the Kiwis who have a great reputation for fair play.
Report Fatslogger August 12, 2020 6:06 PM BST
All sides push the line occasionally, some more than others. Funny that of your three examples of England doing it, one isn’t actually of England doing it at all though. The clue is in the bit where it says NZ. The Pringle bottle top is the only one comparable with the recent Aussie incident, as it was pre planned use of an external object to tamper with the ball. He was v lucky to get with it but the excerpt explains why. Doesn’t mean the Aussies shouldn’t have been punished for cheating for their example of doing so.
Report Try My Best August 12, 2020 6:52 PM BST
I put that in as example of a country that has an excellent reputation for fair play and still there has been an example of cheating. As Flintoff said all nations have been guilty of tampering so don't throw stones. Didn't hear much when Tendulkar, Younis and the Boks were at it from Whispering. I have made my feelings perfectly clear. The Aussie trio would not have plated for Australia again if I was in charge. Seems like my standards are higher than some on here.
Report Fatslogger August 12, 2020 7:16 PM BST
As I say, agree that professional teams will push the line.  Doesn't mean that the recent Aussie example wasn't egregious but I would look at it in context, yes. While I thought Warner, for one, deserved what he got, on the whole I thought the punishments and wailing and gnashing of teeth associated were excessive.
Report Try My Best August 12, 2020 7:51 PM BST
If you cheat at any sport especially when you are Captain of the greatest international cricket side in history you should no longer be able to represent your country let alone captain it again. That goes for the Pakistanis and Indians who have the worst records of corruption in the great game and the characters that have been involved as well as the Boks who have a poor record in this area. You could excuse some players who are very young and who have been instructed by a senior member of the side. Personally that doesn't wash with me. It shows weak character and that you can be easily influenced. Both poor traits for top class and professional sportsman to have.
Report Whisperingdeath August 13, 2020 1:13 PM BST
Institutional cheating from the Convicts. It's in their DNA....criminality. Approved by management, quite disgraceful!
Report jumper3 August 14, 2020 1:13 PM BST
Coming up again tonight on my BBC 2 HD at 12.20am, just following the cricket highlights.
Report jumper3 August 14, 2020 1:16 PM BST

Aug 12, 2020 -- 6:26PM, Try My Best wrote:


Michael Atherton, England, 1994The “dirt in the pocket" incident happened when the England captain took dirt off the pitch, put it in his pocket and was caught on camera using it on the ball.Atherton was not fined or reprimanded by the ICC match referee Peter Burge, but the England Cricket Board took the sterner step of imposing a fine on Atherton.It was one of the darker episodes in his career. But Atherton, working this month as an analyst during England’s two-test tour to New Zealand, has sympathized with the current Australia captain, describing calls for Smith to be banned for life as “ridiculous."Chris Pringle, New Zealand, 1990The gentle medium pacer got away without any punishment despite admitting to ball tampering not long after making his test debut against Pakistan at Karachi.Television technology was nowhere near as high-tech as it is now, when every action of a player on the field can be closely monitored. And the on-field umpires were the sole adjudicators of test matches before the International Cricket Council started appointing match referees.He took a career-best 11 wickets for 152 runs in the third test at Faisalabad’ on a batting friendly wicket, later revealing he’d used a bottle top to scratch the ball. He said he’d tampered with the ball because he believed Pakistani bowlers were also doing it. The late Martin Crowe acknowledged later that while he’d been ready to accept that Pakistan was a better team, “we were not going to accept what they were doing with the ball."Stuart Broad, England, 2010The England fast bowler faced accusations of ball tampering when he appeared to step on the ball with the spikes of his boot during a test match against South Africa at Cape Town. Broad stopped a rolling ball with his foot before he stood on it. He argued that he was a bit lazy because of the extreme heat and denied tampering with the ball.No formal charges were laid despite complaints from the South Africans. Former England captain Nasser Hussain said that he had no doubt the fast bowler was wrong and “if a player from another country did the same, we’d have said they were cheating."Just a few examples of what the pomms have done in the past regarding ball tampering. Don't throw stones Whispering and know your cricket history.


However much we want our team to be blame free, I think it's fairly obvious this has been widespread. It's just the clever (or perhaps it's the lucky ones), who have never been caught.

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