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tomtimtum
25 Aug 19 18:57
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Date Joined: 07 Sep 10
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Bit of a break before the next match but thought I'd get the thread up early.

England slightly favoured in the odds but the reality is there's not much between these 2 teams.

Steve Smith likely to come back in for Australia

Jimmy Anderson has to prove his fitness, who does he replace if he is fit? Not sure myself.
There will be pressure on Woakes who has been underused so far by Root for reasons unknown.
The tail will look very long if no Woakes and the batting has been shaky enough as it is.

Broad has bowled well with 14 wickets at 25. Would be a tough call to drop him but Jimmy is the better bowler.

As for the batting I think they'll keep the same line up but swap Denly into opening and push Roy down the order.
They like Roy and as unimpressive as he's been I think they'll want to give him a go in the middle order.
Absolutely no point in Roy opening again, he's just not a test match opener.
Denly showed he has a decent technique and a bit of mettle.


As for Australia, I would be bringing Starc in for Pattinson.
Who does Smith replace? Paine has been hopeless with the bat so far and it would make sense to give Wade the gloves and bring Smith back in his place but it's hard to see them changing captain mid series.
Khawaja or Wade likely to make way for Smith.

Too early for weather report but everyone knows it always rains in Manchester

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By:
SontaranStratagem
When: 25 Aug 19 19:07
Whatever happens its likely to flip flop in the betting multiple times, like russian roulette, before it finally delivers a winner

I'd go England if Anderson is back, for some reason Root doesn't trust Woakes
By:
SontaranStratagem
When: 25 Aug 19 19:08
Root wont be sacked now so he's bound to be captain
By:
Eric.Cartman
When: 25 Aug 19 19:23
Burns
Denly (only for his amazing edgeless bat)
Vince
Root
Stoakes
Foakes
S Curran
Jeffrey
Broad
Leach
Anderson/Woakes

no Roy/Bairstow/Buttler...never gonna happen..prob all three will be picked and i will lump the Aussies
By:
SontaranStratagem
When: 25 Aug 19 22:42
If Roy plays I can only see us being 2 down for 20 again both innings

Although the way this series has gone I wouldn't be shocked if he made 200 from 80 balls
By:
VardonVoo.
When: 25 Aug 19 23:13
Curran would be an interesting choice, but I doubt they would do it.
By:
1978Reggie
When: 26 Aug 19 17:02
long range weather looks damp, get on the draw train now?
By:
Injera
When: 26 Aug 19 17:25
They really are clueless. Buttler is now a specialist batsman at 7.... Bairstow who dropped 2 is at 6 whilst Foakes, the best keeper, is playing T20 for Surrey.

The two changes that could well happen are Pope for Roy (Denly to open) and Anderson for Woakes.
By:
elisjohn
When: 26 Aug 19 17:38
the draw train is moving 5s when i looked earlier,
By:
elisjohn
When: 26 Aug 19 17:46
ive missed the 6.00 and 5.00 train, cant see it going much  lower than now tbo,
By:
VardonVoo.
When: 26 Aug 19 20:30
Talking of trains, did you all read in the paper about the steam-train enthusiast
who was diagnosed with terminal cancer and decided he wanted to die happy whilst pursuing his hobby?
Apparently he fell under a moving locomotive and was chuffed to bits.
By:
cool_hand_luke
When: 26 Aug 19 21:23
Theres not much between the teams? really, lets be 100% frank and not caught up in the Stokes fairy tale , Australia have better Bowlers, better batters and are playing to conditions superior. Most of the England team are horrendously out of form (Roy, Bairstow, Butler), Now with the return of Australia's best player in Smith,  Australia who barring a shocking umpire call and a mesmeric performance would be 2-0 up are second favourites, (Really) England have been second best all the way through except for that Stokes session, dont get caught up in the hysteria as its not going to be repeated, England are flat and second best. Australia should be favourites (in my opinion) and anything around 6/4 represents great value, the draw appears to be a non runner in test cricket these days when the weather stays fair.
By:
mafeking
When: 26 Aug 19 21:41
take out smith and labaschane the others average around 15 in the series and labaschagne has had about 7 let offs in his 3 innings so far

could easily make the case that england should be 3-0 up if they'd picked archer and leach from the start. would surely have won easily at edgbaston and dropping labaschagne at lords cost about an extra hour at the tail at lords and anything up to 100 runs 2nd inns headingley

that said i'd only make england marginal favourites at old trafford. the current gap in prices is way too big if you ask me
By:
Whisperingdeath
When: 27 Aug 19 17:13
I think the two teams are evenly matched but we have Archer and Stokes on fire at the moment.

England were every poor at times and again very lucky with the weather.

Too hard to pick a winner so will just have a chicken dinner instead.

For me Pope come in for Roy, Denly opens. Anderson for Woakes if fit.

Foakes will not be picked but should be as wicket keeper instead of Butler/Baristow
By:
Whisperingdeath
When: 27 Aug 19 17:15
oh and ffs Starc plays instead of Pattinson

Smudge comes in for North with Khawaja mvoing up one for me. That makes the Aussie attack very dangerous and I would like to see England try and hit Lyon out of the attack
By:
elisjohn
When: 27 Aug 19 19:58
they wont drop roy, but will find him a place down the order imo
By:
Whisperingdeath
When: 27 Aug 19 21:52
Yes it is quite interesting. Huge focus on root and a revolver and glass of Whisky were ready for him if we lost the Ashes but imho despite the faults, poor technique and poor attitude from the players is contributory the real problem at the moment is the Chairman of the Selectors and his team.

They have got this horribly wrong! Root should not be the fall guy although he should not be Captain in my view either. I like Ed Smith and think he has brought on some good players and good attitudes but he has got this wrong.

I was one of those calling for Roy to be given a chance and as opener btw! I was wrong and it could be clearly seen after England were bowled out before Lunch by Ireland. Sometimes you have to admit you got it wrong.

I don't expect any / many changes either I am sorry to say.
By:
jucel69
When: 27 Aug 19 22:22

Aug 25, 2019 -- 2:23PM, Eric.Cartman wrote:


BurnsDenly (only for his amazing edgeless bat)VinceRootStoakesFoakesS CurranJeffreyBroadLeachAnderson/Woakesno Roy/Bairstow/Buttler...never gonna happen..prob all three will be picked and i will lump the Aussies


Denly - edgeless bat, amazing how some play and miss more than others.

Does nicking off a lot mean you are in good form or bad form, higher quality or lower quality

Look at tail enders, they play and miss loads yet Vince, Roy and Billy Bell seemed to nick off all the time.

Would be good to find out % of plays & misses and snick offs for certain players

It's interesting from a technical point of view, form point of view and also an element of pure luck

By:
jucel69
When: 27 Aug 19 22:25

Aug 27, 2019 -- 12:15PM, Whisperingdeath wrote:


oh and ffs Starc plays instead of PattinsonSmudge comes in for North with Khawaja mvoing up one for me. That makes the Aussie attack very dangerous and I would like to see England try and hit Lyon out of the attack


The main plus for Starc is that he creates rough for Rat boy to use against the right handers

By:
jucel69
When: 27 Aug 19 22:30

Aug 26, 2019 -- 4:23PM, cool_hand_luke wrote:


Theres not much between the teams? really, lets be 100% frank and not caught up in the Stokes fairy tale , Australia have better Bowlers, better batters and are playing to conditions superior. Most of the England team are horrendously out of form (Roy, Bairstow, Butler), Now with the return of Australia's best player in Smith,

By:
Injera
When: 28 Aug 19 15:29
juce - I had one of my best ever seasons when I played and missed a lot.

I'd come back after a break of 2 or 3 years so was hardly seeing it well. That season I played and missed more times than ever before and made a lot of runs.....

It's a weird one..
By:
Injera
When: 28 Aug 19 15:42
Just to follow that up: I recall one season in particular when I couldn't play and miss. I defended, left well and then nick, out.

The margins are so tight.
By:
trader pj
When: 28 Aug 19 16:21
I am backing Australia here, I just have a sneaky feeling. weather looks fine imo which is rare for Manchester Indian Summer!
By:
Whisperingdeath
When: 28 Aug 19 16:29
Denly should not be in the team either ( Roy ) but the selectors have backed themselves into a corner and I doubt they can undo what they have done and will probably have to back their ill judgement!

Aussie have huge problems. Lyon stood on a ball but more than that he will be victimised by the crowd at Old Trafford....good!

I still think the teams are fairly evenly matched and it is hard to call. Toss, pitch and weather play a huge part as does luck. Engerland got so lucky! Forget the heroics of Ginger and Leach.
By:
Whisperingdeath
When: 28 Aug 19 16:34
you know what. I would really love to see Engerland go full bodyline starting with Smith and I would want Root to clap his hands as the signal like in that great tv programme about it!
By:
jucel69
When: 30 Aug 19 13:02
Anderson ruled out of the Ashes
By:
jucel69
When: 30 Aug 19 13:06
Will Jimmy retire?
By:
mafeking
When: 30 Aug 19 13:26
might do. guess it depends how much he wants 600 test wickets - 575 currently - but new zealand and the saffers are appetising tours for a seam bowler
By:
Angoose
When: 30 Aug 19 13:31
England's leading Test wicket-taker James Anderson will play no further part in the Ashes against Australia after a recurrence of a calf injury.
The 37-year-old Lancashire seamer bowled only four overs in the first Test and missed the second and third.

He felt pain in the calf on Thursday during a four-day friendly for Lancashire second XI.
The Ashes is level at 1-1, with the fourth Test at Old Trafford starting on 4 September.

The final Test at The Oval begins on 12 September.

More to follow.
By:
Richie_Burnett
When: 30 Aug 19 13:36
Good video of him:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ge3LPjChcM
By:
tomtimtum
When: 30 Aug 19 13:55

Aug 30, 2019 -- 8:06AM, jucel69 wrote:


Will Jimmy retire?


don't think so unless it's forced upon him through injury
when he does retire I'm sure he'd want to go out on a high

By:
wondersobright
When: 30 Aug 19 14:06
underson out for the series is 1 helluva blow to the knackers Sad
By:
Angoose
When: 30 Aug 19 14:59
England squad for fourth Ashes Test against Australia: Joe Root (capt), Jofra Archer, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Stuart Broad, Rory Burns, Jos Buttler (wk), Sam Curran, Joe Denly, Jack Leach, Craig Overton, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes.
By:
Injera
When: 30 Aug 19 15:31
Draw price 4.5. Shocked
By:
sewter lives again
When: 30 Aug 19 16:01
Dreadful news about Jimmy but unbelievable selection by England.

Have the selectors not watched the first 3 matches?

I just cannot have Roy, Buttler and Bairstow-all magnificent white ball cricketers-in the same red ball Test side.
The definition of insanity quote seems to apply here. Same selection over and over expecting different results.
By:
mafeking
When: 30 Aug 19 16:15
yep you have to think 2 or 3 changes but for stokes heroics. i'm all for not panicking but as you say keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. really ?
By:
mafeking
When: 30 Aug 19 16:16
for a start the continued non selection of foakes is baffling. on all known form he's a better red ball batsman and keeper than either bairstow or buttler
By:
Angoose
When: 30 Aug 19 16:49
Steve Smith out for 23 against Derbyshire Shocked
By:
Injera
When: 30 Aug 19 16:51
You'd think the penny would have dropped by now. Stokes was 2 from 70, 50 from 150 balls. He battled, defended, left, then exploded. He respected test cricket.

At what point does Root (Bayliss does nothing) realise the approach must change?
By:
sewter lives again
When: 30 Aug 19 17:00
could not agree more mafeking re Foakes it's baffling why he isn't playing

I'm sure it has something to do with Jonny not wanting to give up the gloves...

I just cannot see how dropping Buttler, having Jonny at 5 and Foakes at 7, does not improve this team
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