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FredRescue
27 Jan 19 15:27
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Date Joined: 07 Jul 12
| Topic/replies: 4,809 | Blogger: FredRescue's blog
Since then, how many Remoaners do you know personally that have taken advantage of the rights to live and work all over the EU and actually moved/planning to move to one of the other 27 utopian EU states?
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Report PorcupineorPineapple January 27, 2019 3:38 PM GMT
About 10-12 personally.

Couple being re-located through their work moving. Could have stayed and tried to find another job but chose to move.

Few more chosen to leave for various reasons. Some of them are European and frankly think the country is no longer the one they came to and prefer somewhere a bit more hospitable.

One of my best mates (a scouser in London) is moving to Spain in a month of two too.

Got a couple of applications myself for jobs overseas. Would jump at the chance now frankly.
Report Mr Eboue January 27, 2019 3:40 PM GMT
I'm off to Madrid in the summer to do a 12-month placement.
Report twizzle22 January 27, 2019 3:41 PM GMT
Mr Eboue    27 Jan 19 15:40 
I'm off to Madrid in the summer to do a 12-month placement.GrinGrinGrinGrinGrin
Report Just Checking January 27, 2019 3:42 PM GMT
"About 10-12 personally."

LOL if you are going to lie at least make it believable.
Report Mr Eboue January 27, 2019 3:44 PM GMT
Why would he lie?
Report Mr Eboue January 27, 2019 3:44 PM GMT
Oh, I see - his answer doesn't please you so you accuse him of lying.

How pathetic.
Report PorcupineorPineapple January 27, 2019 3:53 PM GMT
jesus, lying now.


Don't tell me...it's project fear, at least until it's simple reality.



In fairness, not all have moved to the EU. Couple went back to much further away and those Europeans I mentioned weren't even allowed a vote. Seems we were happy enough to take their taxes but not give them a say. Gotta love democracy.
Report wit-ham January 27, 2019 4:07 PM GMT
Two here funnily enough but not because of Brexit,and just on my station alone
i work with two Romanians.a Portuguese,a french congolese
a Greek And a West Ham and one Spurs surporter
Only know off one Brazilian and one Romanian left since the vote
and one was to move back with an old boyfriend in Italy and one because mother
was very unwell(rest of family still here.)
Report saddo January 27, 2019 4:16 PM GMT
PorcupineorPineapple    27 Jan 19 15:53 
jesus, lying now.


Don't tell me...it's project fear, at least until it's simple reality.



In fairness, not all have moved to the EU. Couple went back to much further away and those Europeans I mentioned weren't even allowed a vote. Seems we were happy enough to take their taxes but not give them a say. Gotta love democracy.






It is accepted by everyone that we gained no revenue from EU migration, a net loss.
Report FredRescue January 27, 2019 4:19 PM GMT
PorcupineorPineapple
Date Joined:    03 Dec 15
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27 Jan 19 15:38 Joined: 03 Dec 15 | Topic/replies: 7,149 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
About 10-12 personally.

Couple being re-located through their work moving. Could have stayed and tried to find another job but chose to move.

So basically they would have stayed if their jobs did.


Few more chosen to leave for various reasons. Some of them are European and frankly think the country is no longer the one they came to and prefer somewhere a bit more hospitable.
"Various" reasons such as? Are they all remainers?
Guess these Europeans did not have a vote so are not really remainers. The country has not changed. Always been Eurosceptic. So strange reason to leave.



One of my best mates (a scouser in London) is moving to Spain in a month of two too.
Is he a remainer? What is his reason for moving?

Got a couple of applications myself for jobs overseas. Would jump at the chance now frankly.

Would you have not jumped before?
Rate reply:
Report Mr Eboue January 27, 2019 4:20 PM GMT
It is accepted by EVERYONE, he says. Well how do you explain the following:

Migrants from the EU contribute £2,300 more to the exchequer each year in net terms than the average adult, the analysis for the government has found.

And, over their lifetimes, they pay in £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits - while the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution is zero.
Report Mr Eboue January 27, 2019 4:21 PM GMT
When it comes to the public finances, European migrants contribute substantially more than they cost, easing the tax burden on other taxpayers.
Report FredRescue January 27, 2019 4:23 PM GMT
That is very interesting Mr Eboue but nothing to do with the question in hand.
Report lfc1971 January 27, 2019 4:31 PM GMT
The problem is not how many have left it is how many have arrived in the last 3 years
Report lfc1971 January 27, 2019 4:32 PM GMT
I know 2 people who have left.  , for Australia not the EU
Report PorcupineorPineapple January 27, 2019 4:35 PM GMT
Couple being re-located through their work moving. Could have stayed and tried to find another job but chose to move.

So basically they would have stayed if their jobs did.
Yes, they were happy to stay. But then the outlook changed and the company needed to keep their department inside the EU so they've had to leave.


Few more chosen to leave for various reasons. Some of them are European and frankly think the country is no longer the one they came to and prefer somewhere a bit more hospitable.
"Various" reasons such as? Are they all remainers?
Guess these Europeans did not have a vote so are not really remainers. The country has not changed. Always been Eurosceptic. So strange reason to leave.
Well, if the thread's not going the way you intended so you want to limit it purely to those who had a vote and, of them, those who voted remain then my number would be 6 or 7 I think. Reasons are the usual ones probably. The world is a smaller place nowadays; you only get one life and have to make the most of it so if the chance comes to live a much better one elsewhere then you take it. But the usual complaints come up; country is intent on making itself and the people poorer, people are much meaner than they thought, what am I staying for etc etc.


One of my best mates (a scouser in London) is moving to Spain in a month of two too.
Is he a remainer? What is his reason for moving?
He's got a job there. Married to a foreigner (non-EU as it happens), did his Oxford degree in modern languages and is now fed up here and wants to try the Spanish life. And he's very much a remainer. Is also just about the smartest person I've ever known.

Got a couple of applications myself for jobs overseas. Would jump at the chance now frankly.
Would you have not jumped before?
Lived abroad once before. Came back. Just spent a few days back there and realise I really miss the place, miss the fact that some blerts aren't intent on ruining my kids' future over there. Always considered it "if the right opportunity came along", now being much more proactive in finding that opportunity. Just pretty sick of this place now. Missus went to get her hair done last week and sat next to some old bitch railing on about foreigners. She's been advised by a mate to remove the fact that she's Italian from her business advert as "some people may be put off by it". This country really didn't used to be this sh!t.
Report lfc1971 January 27, 2019 4:35 PM GMT
migrants from the EU cannot have payed 78,000 more over a lifetime because they haven’t been here a lifetime
Report lfc1971 January 27, 2019 4:38 PM GMT
When you have millions of foreigners coming into a country and with many of the problems that Britain faces
I’m not entirely surprised that some lady might not be overjoyed
Why should she be ?
Report FredRescue January 27, 2019 4:45 PM GMT
Couple being re-located through their work moving. Could have stayed and tried to find another job but chose to move.

So basically they would have stayed if their jobs did. Yes, they were happy to stay. But then the outlook changed and the company needed to keep their department inside the EU so they've had to leave.


Few more chosen to leave for various reasons. Some of them are European and frankly think the country is no longer the one they came to and prefer somewhere a bit more hospitable.
"Various" reasons such as? Are they all remainers?
Guess these Europeans did not have a vote so are not really remainers. The country has not changed. Always been Eurosceptic. So strange reason to leave. Well, if the thread's not going the way you intended so you want to limit it purely to those who had a vote and, of them, those who voted remain then my number would be 6 or 7 I think. Reasons are the usual ones probably. The world is a smaller place nowadays; you only get one life and have to make the most of it so if the chance comes to live a much better one elsewhere then you take it. But the usual complaints come up; country is intent on making itself and the people poorer, people are much meaner than they thought, what am I staying for etc etc.


One of my best mates (a scouser in London) is moving to Spain in a month of two too.
Is he a remainer? What is his reason for moving? He's got a job there. Married to a foreigner (non-EU as it happens), did his Oxford degree in modern languages and is now fed up here and wants to try the Spanish life. And he's very much a remainer. Is also just about the smartest person I've ever known.

Got a couple of applications myself for jobs overseas. Would jump at the chance now frankly.
Would you have not jumped before? Lived abroad once before. Came back. Just spent a few days back there and realise I really miss the place, miss the fact that some blerts aren't intent on ruining my kids' future over there. Always considered it "if the right opportunity came along", now being much more proactive in finding that opportunity. Just pretty sick of this place now. Missus went to get her hair done last week and sat next to some old bitch railing on about foreigners. She's been advised by a mate to remove the fact that she's Italian from her business advert as "some people may be put off by it". This country really didn't used to be this sh!t.




You have given an example of one couple who had no desire to move and then too lazy it sounds to look for jobs in the UK rather than anything else.

Others that have degrees in modern languages, others with a desire to experience the world and yourself who misses living abroad. Sounds like even if UK stayed in EU these people would likely have moved abroad at some point.


"This thread not going the way I intended"? No it is not I wanted to focus on the 16 million people who voted to remain. Specifically people who would have had no intention of moving if Brexit vote would not have happened.

So none of the original 10-12 figure you gave fit anywhere near this it seems fair to assume.
Report PorcupineorPineapple January 27, 2019 4:55 PM GMT
"This thread not going the way I intended"? No it is not I wanted to focus on the 16 million people who voted to remain. Specifically people who would have had no intention of moving if Brexit vote would not have happened.

So none of the original 10-12 figure you gave fit anywhere near this it seems fair to assume.



Sheesh!

You could start with the first two people I mentioned. Brexit removes us from the EU. Their firm needs their department to stay within. Hence they have to move. Don't know what people having to move who had no intention a few years ago fits into if not this.

As for the rest of your rather desperate attempt, one can never make linear predictions but I know from simply knowing them and speaking with them recently that Brexit played a big part in their decisions. The worsening economic outlook, the unleashing of overt racism and rise of far-right politics etc...it's always hard to pinpoint one point in time or one event that tips you over the edge but as they accumulate they just have a way of making the alternative much more attractive. And as one of the group escapes then it makes it easier for the rest to pluck up the courage to jump.
Report moisok January 27, 2019 4:56 PM GMT
the worsening economic outlook - I guess you must be referring to germany and the rest of the eu
Report PorcupineorPineapple January 27, 2019 5:06 PM GMT
As if by some kind of serendipitous magic, this article just popped up on my twitter feed. Resonates pretty damn strongly.


Renata remembers clearly the morning after the Brexit vote in June 2016, when the Polish parents at her son’s school in Northamptonshire gathered by the school gates. Lost for words, the English parents would hurry past, avoiding eye contact.

“You could tell people were in a state of deep shock. They were trying hard not to look at the group of foreigners standing there – not knowing how to take this all in. Emotions were running high that day. When September came, I realised that many Polish families had moved back home.”

Now 42, Renata, who asked not to be identified by her full name, moved to London from the industrial region of Silesia in south-western Poland in 1999, five years before the country joined the EU. “I loved the freedom. I remember thinking: ‘This is it! This is my place on Earth.’”

While living in London she had a son with her then partner, but moved to a small town in Northamptonshire with her son after the relationship ended. There, she set up a business, and lived what she describes as “a quiet life”, until the Brexit vote turned her world upside down.

“I remember waking up in the middle of the night just as the results were coming in and the shock of hearing that people voted for Brexit. I felt sick. I couldn’t believe that people no longer wanted to be a part of something that I felt was so good to me and my friends, and to this country, which I thought was my country too.”

On Thursday the Polish prime minister, Mateusz Morawiecki, issued a rallying cry to Poles living in the UK, urging them to return home to help Poland’s economy grow. “More and more are coming back and I’m pleased about that because there is a low level of unemployment,” Morawiecki told the BBC. “Give us our people back.”

In a series of conversations with the Guardian, Poles have described their shock, dismay, and in some cases, their anger at what many perceive as a resounding rejection of their presence in Britain, and their struggle to come to terms with the uncertainty surrounding their rights and future status.

“We were full of admiration for this country, and we were enjoying a fantastic life, but everything changed in 2016,” says Ewa Lewecka, a teacher who moved to the UK with her two children in 2005. “Now I feel disappointed, unhappy, unwanted. The country is not the same, the people are completely different.

“The worst thing is the loneliness. I feel like everything collapsed, and I’m not alone in feeling that. This country is a nightmare at the moment. I used to love it here. Now I count the days until my next visit to Poland. If it wasn’t for my son I would be back already.”

There are approximately 900,000 Polish nationals living in Britain, the largest group of foreign nationals in the UK, and Polish is the second most widely spoken language in Britain after English. But statistics suggesting a sharp downturn in net migration from central and eastern Europe and acute labour shortages in sectors such as construction and hospitality appear to support strong anecdotal evidence that thousands of Poles are on their way out.

In a survey of 600 Polish business owners in the UK, 45% said they were considering moving back to Poland or to another country due to Brexit, while 30% said Brexit had already directly affected their relations with the surrounding community.

Of those who said that Brexit had affected them directly, many cited a rise in hostility towards migrants in the wake of the referendum result. If people or their children experience some kind of prejudice, it affects them very deeply, says Bartosz Kowalczyk, of Polish Business Link, which conducted the survey. “The mood is very tense.”

The British government has made efforts to reassure members of the Polish community. At a meeting with Morawiecki last month, Theresa May declared in English and Polish: “We want you to stay.” But that message is being muddled by mixed signals. There are concerns, for instance, over proposals to introduce a minimum salary threshold of £30,000 for EU workers after Brexit.

“One moment May tells them that she wants them to stay, the next moment they hear of all these different conditions,” says Niko Cichowlas, who moved from Poland to the UK in 1981 and runs a construction company in London with a large proportion of Polish employees, many of whom have returned since the referendum. “They are feeling lost.”

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Particular offence was caused by May’s suggestion last year that EU nationals had “jumped the queue” in search of jobs in the UK, compounded by now dropped proposals to make EU nationals pay a £65 fee for “settled status” after Brexit.

The exasperation remains. “This is an insult to me, to my kids, to my friends who came after Poland joined the EU,” says Damian Wawrzyniak, a successful chef and consultant with a restaurant in Cambridgeshire, who moved to the UK in 2004. “I feel unwelcome. It’s not about the money. I came here legally, never had any problem with the law, paid my taxes, never spent a day on benefits. I’ve worked every day since I came here 15 years ago – why should I apply again?”

For Alicia Kuczyńska, who moved to the UK as a 20-year-old student in 2003, but returned to Poland in September, making the move back was not easy.

“I spent my whole adult life in Britain. In many ways, I think I am more British than Polish,” she says. “It has been quite hard to adjust here in Poland, but I could just feel that where I was living in Bournemouth people didn’t like immigrants, they didn’t want them to succeed. My friends’ kids were being bullied at school.”

Many Poles are attracted home because of a robust economy and a steady rise in living standards since EU accession. Rising living costs in the UK and a steep fall in the value of sterling is also making Britain a much less attractive proposition.

“There is a clear pull factor from Poland,” says Agnieszka Smoleńska of Polityka Insight, a Warsaw-based centre for policy analysis, who studied in London in the late 2000s. “Many people in my generation see opportunities in Poland that we never saw before.”

But, according to the Guardian’s conversations with Poles, there is also a strong sense of disillusionment.

“When I came here I was like: ‘Wow, the English are so tolerant,’” says Sławomir Kaczyński, 34, who works in the catering sector in Dartford but has just accepted a job offer in Iceland. “But after five minutes they start crying that they pay for everything and that foreigners steal their jobs. After Brexit the country showed its true face.

Cichowlas says: “When I hear the guys talking, they feel that the British are turning against them, they feel this rightwing antagonism, and some of them end up becoming quite anti-British themselves – the process works both ways. They feel under attack, it is very sad.”
Report Injera January 27, 2019 5:08 PM GMT
Not sure the Channel can cope with all this traffic. Remainers leaving, illegals arriving.

Could they use the same boats? Bit like Ron Pickering's We are the Champions: 'Away you go!'
Report wit-ham January 27, 2019 5:17 PM GMT
I was in London on Friday(first time in years)only live 40 mins up the road
and costs nothing on the train.
Ended up walking from Waterloo to the Houses of Parliarment(had a private tour as friend works here)
well worth the visit very interesting.Anyway could not believe the amount of scams
going on walking from the south bank then along westminster bridge worse than Las Ramblas.
Report lfc1971 January 27, 2019 5:18 PM GMT
Poland does  not want its workers to return , of that you can be certain
Report saddo January 27, 2019 5:21 PM GMT
'Many Poles are attracted home because of a robust economy and a steady rise in living standards since EU accession. Rising living costs in the UK and a steep fall in the value of sterling is also making Britain a much less attractive proposition.'




Exactly, they came because we offered more than their own government could give them, and now they are offski. There is a reason 3 million people came here from 27 countries and only 1 million of ours went the other way, money.
Report lfc1971 January 27, 2019 5:21 PM GMT
You see they don’t want the economy to crash ( and that’s with their own people returning not half the world
I wonder if the polish mp would welcome half the world coming to Poland like Britain

No ? Then I suggest he pipes down
Report lfc1971 January 27, 2019 5:24 PM GMT
And when people from Poland , or elsewhere have the gaul to criticise British people for lack of tolerance
Take a look at their own beloved Poland   , thanks
Report PorcupineorPineapple January 27, 2019 5:27 PM GMT
There is a reason 3 million people came here from 27 countries and only 1 million of ours went the other way, money.


But of course. What do you think they came for; the food? Exactly the same reasons why a Glaswegian would move to London for a job or someone from Leeds might relocate to Liverpool if offered a better job there. The idea that foreigners are supposed to think differently to the rest of us is bizarre. They want to make a better life for themselves and their families just like the rest of us.
Report lfc1971 January 27, 2019 5:31 PM GMT
No one is in dispute that they came to Britain because Britain is a better country
That is neither here nor there
Report saddo January 27, 2019 5:32 PM GMT
Good that the tide has turned then, we might have a bit more room when they bugger off home.
Report lfc1971 January 27, 2019 5:32 PM GMT
Scotland is still part of the U.K.

If they vote for independence they won’t be welcome to come to England for work either
Report lfc1971 January 27, 2019 5:34 PM GMT
And make sure that is on the ballot paper , so there’s no misunderstanding
Report donny osmond January 27, 2019 5:37 PM GMT
when they bugger off home they will be replaced by folk from elsewhere

that will keep some of you gainfully employed on future rants ....
Report saddo January 27, 2019 5:47 PM GMT
Not ranting, the country is too populated and I'd be happy with less people. Others would be happy with 100 million here, it's subjective.
Report donny osmond January 27, 2019 6:14 PM GMT
tourettes ?
Report saddo January 27, 2019 6:20 PM GMT
I wonder how the EU will afford the takeover of Albania and others without our financial help. Albania is getting well over a biliion a year in preparation funds and has been for some years. Will they keep paying em to hang on, or kick em into the long grass?
Report kincsem January 27, 2019 6:25 PM GMT
That week in 2016 was also know for another great decision, to play Rooney and Wlshere in midfield against Iceland.  Cool
Report dave1357 January 27, 2019 6:48 PM GMT
^^
they are all set to tell poland, hungary and romania to toe the line or no funds.  So that'll easily cover the loss of the UK's contribution.
Report lfc1971 January 27, 2019 7:02 PM GMT
^ good luck with that
Report FredRescue January 27, 2019 7:33 PM GMT

Sheesh!

You could start with the first two people I mentioned. Brexit removes us from the EU. Their firm needs their department to stay within. Hence they have to move. Don't know what people having to move who had no intention a few years ago fits into if not this.

As for the rest of your rather desperate attempt, one can never make linear predictions but I know from simply knowing them and speaking with them recently that Brexit played a big part in their decisions. The worsening economic outlook, the unleashing of overt racism and rise of far-right politics etc...it's always hard to pinpoint one point in time or one event that tips you over the edge but as they accumulate they just have a way of making the alternative much more attractive. And as one of the group escapes then it makes it easier for the rest to pluck up the courage to jump.



You are still not addressing the point.

The couple you mention had no intention or will to leave the UK because of Brexit. Companies have been relocating people for years. Randomly picking a couple who you said could not be bothered to look for other jobs in the UK just indicates they fancy a stint abroad. If you said they searched high and low for new jobs in the UK before deciding to move abroad you may have some small point in this particular example.

As for all the others I simply repeated the information you gave me. You now try and justify these examples further by now adding other possible reasons for their move. Claiming "overt racism and rise of far right" in the UK as a reason to move to the EU seems very feeble since most countries in the EU have much bigger factions holding these views than the UK.
Report moisok January 27, 2019 7:47 PM GMT
yes fred but he is very funny though
Report moisok January 27, 2019 7:49 PM GMT
you suddenly find out where his interests and allegiances lay.   Hates the Uk  and continually flaunts negative contributions ALL the time

he cannot help it.  Doesn't like the place one little bit.
Report PorcupineorPineapple January 27, 2019 7:58 PM GMT
The couple you mention had no intention or will to leave the UK because of Brexit. Companies have been relocating people for years. Randomly picking a couple who you said could not be bothered to look for other jobs in the UK just indicates they fancy a stint abroad. If you said they searched high and low for new jobs in the UK before deciding to move abroad you may have some small point in this particular example.

As for all the others I simply repeated the information you gave me. You now try and justify these examples further by now adding other possible reasons for their move. Claiming "overt racism and rise of far right" in the UK as a reason to move to the EU seems very feeble since most countries in the EU have much bigger factions holding these views than the UK.


My take from the above is that whatever answer you get you will never accept. Brexit will always be blameless in your eyes. Companies relocating because of brexit will be lumped in with every other country who has ever left, therefore nothing to do with brexit. People having to move to keep their jobs is nothing to do with brexit because they could choose to go on the dole and try to look for another job. Me not giving you their entire life story, not saying how much they looked round, spoke to family and friends first and basically turned their lives upside down is nothing to do with brexit; they simply fancied a change.

I'm wondering what kind of example you would accept to be honest.
Report InsiderTrader January 27, 2019 8:15 PM GMT
Mr Eboue
27 Jan 19 16:20
Joined: 15 Sep 09
| Topic/replies: 26,281 | Blogger: Mr Eboue's blog
It is accepted by EVERYONE, he says. Well how do you explain the following:

Migrants from the EU contribute £2,300 more to the exchequer each year in net terms than the average adult, the analysis for the government has found.

And, over their lifetimes, they pay in £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits - while the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution is zero.

^

Total and utter nonsense.
Report InsiderTrader January 27, 2019 8:15 PM GMT
Give us a link to this rubbish.
Report wit-ham January 27, 2019 9:00 PM GMT
I believe it was disproved a few weeks back IT but cant remember where
it was (yes convenient i know)due to the pension/childcare etc bills for those back home i think
But i may be wrong.
Report Hanx January 28, 2019 9:38 AM GMT
Don't leave!

If we do get a proper Brexit, we're going to need skilled and talented people, who are prepared to work hard and play by the rules. That certainly seems to cover the many and various postings from Polish people I've seen who have lived here all their lives, paid into the system but now feel unwelcome. Your talents are going to be needed but more importantly, you are going to enjoy living in a free country, where racists are going to get such a major wake up call when they realise they didn't read the bit about us being able to compete for talent on a global basis.

Britain hasn't changed because of Brexit - and spare me statistics on the rise of 'hate crimes due to Brexit'. Because something happens subsequantly it doesn't happen consequently and now, for the first time in British jurisprudence, you can be criminalised not only for what you think but for wahat someone else thinks you might think!

Brexit in itself is nothing. What we as a country make of Brexit - that's the future. That's the opportunity. That's what we need good people to stick around and fight for.
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