The West Indies... what a sad demise.

The disgraceful WICB can burden a large share of the blame.

Not saying that the best side the region could produce would beat england, but it might be competetive, instead of facing this side which is barely 2nd division county level.

Don't watch cricket nowadays in the SKY dominated era and 20-20 baseball style but..... the West Indies from 76 onwards were as good to watch as any team on the planet in any sport.

I will never forget Tony Greig trying to wind them up that went all wrong ..they didn't grovel

I remember thousands of West Indies fans were always at the tests in England, I do wonder why they have all stopped going.

the West Indies from 76 onwards were as good to watch as any team on the planet in any sport.

This hit the nail on the head sixtwosix. Thank you. They were the biggest draw on the planet during that period.

I remember their Pace bowling was fearsome

I remember them at taunton when a young chap called viv richards came in at something like number 5 and he kept driving botham through mid on - he just seemed to just lean into it and the ball was soon racing along the ground to he boundary  - not slogging

WI scored a pile in the first day

then I saw  WI at edgbaston when we did quite well bowling against them until the tail started knocking us all over the place!!!

a great team

Imagine being a test batsman during that period. You've seen off Andy Roberts and Michael Holding and then they bring on Joel Garner, Colin Croft and Malcolm Marshall! Feck that!

The West Indies from the 60/70s were fantastic and England had absolutely no chance against them, imagine opening the batting for England and having to face Malcolm Marshall and Michael Holding with a new ball, if by any chance they lasted long enough for a change of bowlers, they'd bring on Andy Roberts and Joel Garner! When we were bowled out/knocked out for about 100, Desmond Haynes and Gordon Greenidge would put on 200 for the opening partnership, then Viv Richards would come in and they'd knock another 300 for the 2nd wicket, we never stood a chance!

Then Kalicharan would hit a quick fifty , Clive Lloyd would belt it out of the park .........and all the bowlers could bat.

The 60s team with Conrad Hunte and Seymoor Nurse followed by Rohan Kanhai and Gary Sobers were also very good with Lance Gibbs, Wes Hall and Charlie Griffiths doing the bowling! Seem to recall Griffiths breaking Brian Close's arm with one bouncer(no guards and protective pads in those days). Also remember Brian Close getting a bouncer from i think Holding in the ribs and, as a tough nut Yorkshireman refusing steadfastly to rub his ribs even though it must have hurt like hell, great cricket teams they had, shame the footie has turned their young lads heads.

The ECB must be delighted, 2 days of no play good for the finances.

It's not really a question of why they're now so bad ... More how were they ever so good? Total population of all the nations which make up the W Indies is 5 million (Yorkshire & Humber alone is more than that).

I mean, Barbados has a population of 285,000, yet has produced Hall & Griffiths, Garner & Marshall, Greenidge & Sobers. OK, at the moment it's just the two Brathwaites, plus Kemar Roach and Fiddy Edwards (though the latter duo would still be a handful opening the bowling). But a nation that tiny isn't always going to be able to churn them out.

And how bad is the current team anyway? No worse than England were last month vs S Africa at Trent Bridge (or the Convicts were on their last tour here - 60 all out), never mind India, and the way they rolled over on both their last tours here - that Indian capitulation at Old Trafford was a disgrace.

The issue is their management. Just like any other cricket nation they will keep producing the good players(not dependant on the population size I think). But someone has to make them play. They are simply not interested in test cricket. Neither the board nor the players. T20 is where the money is. And they have some of the best players in that format. They've won two of the last 3 T20 world cups. Good enough. I am more worried about them not being able to field their first XI. Darren Bravo is playing the CPL because he said something the board didn't like!

I mean, Barbados has a population of 285,000, yet has produced Hall & Griffiths, Garner & Marshall, Greenidge & Sobers. OK, at the moment it's just the two Brathwaites, plus Kemar Roach and Fiddy Edwards (though the latter duo would still be a handful opening the bowling). But a nation that tiny isn't always going to be able to churn them out.

Thirty years ago, you would see urchins playing cricket on every street corner, now they play basketball. Their TV is beamed in from America by satellite and so the traditional British cultural influence has been supplanted by a different one from the good ol' USA.

Yes basketball is a big influence and maybe the fact they dont have their own country to represent, can make a fortune selling themselves to T20 or play for a colletive of nations.

Basketball was the original reason in the 90s and early 2000s I think. Since then they havent bothered about improving.

The kids have different sporting heroes. The Caribbean is America's back yard and the young aspire to going there to live and work and hope to become sporting superstars like their heroes on TV. Barbadians of my age used to talk of England as "The Mother Country". That's all changed since independence and the young look elsewhere.

Vanburn Holder

halcyon days

That West Indies cricket team from the 1973-1995 era is the ONLY one that I have made a serious effort to follow around in the 50 odd years I've had of watching sport. Watched them at umpteen UK grounds, saw them in Australia, Barbados, Antigua, Trinidad etc.  The most thrilling batsmen I've ever watched and those fearsome bowlers were destroyers. Was lucky enough to meet and briefly chat with various players. Absolute gents.

Loved reading about their early history and chatting endlessly with West Indies supporters both here and in the Caribbean.

What's happened since they were toppled from their perch in Jamaica 1995 has been both excruciating and upsetting to watch. A few successes in a few one-day tournaments is of little comfort to this admirer. It was staggering to witness that immediate decline, which has now gone 20 years with little sign of arrest. I honestly think all genuine followers of cricket will feel the same sadness.

The "Mother Country" still has some sort of influence in Barbados: Chris Jordan and Jofra Archer were both born there, yet have both ended up in England as adults.

Jordan was perfectly willing to represent the W Indies, but they didn't want him. Add Keith Barker (Bajan father) and you'd have a tight yet penetrating trio of eligible pace bowlers, but all surplus to requirement, according to the W Indies selectors.

Even Ottis Gibson is from Barbados, yet ended up coaching England's bowlers. Now going on to take overall control of S Africa, but previously sacked by the W Indies.

I just wonder whether. in the long term, a divisional Test format, in which the individual nations of the Caribbean field their own teams, might end up providing two or three teams each stronger than the current overall one. Whatever nationalist politicking keeps the Bajan ones sidelined would no longer be an issue.

Great to see Michael Holding at York today, loves his racing and still looks very fit and modest with it!

stewarts rise
19 Aug 17 19:03

The 60s team with Conrad Hunte and Seymoor Nurse followed by Rohan Kanhai and Gary Sobers were also very good with Lance Gibbs, Wes Hall and Charlie Griffiths doing the bowling! Seem to recall Griffiths breaking Brian Close's arm with one bouncer(no guards and protective pads in those days). Also remember Brian Close getting a bouncer from i think Holding in the ribs and, as a tough nut Yorkshireman refusing steadfastly to rub his ribs even though it must have hurt like hell, great cricket teams they had, shame the footie has turned their young lads heads.

I was just too young to see the sixties team and never infact even saw Sobers. I thought the arm broken was Cowdreys ( maybe he broke both! ) I read about Cowdrey coming out to bat with a broekn arm to save a Test or I thought I did!

Brian Close!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60GAhXvU90k

OMG! This video makes me cry.

I laugh so much my stomach hurts! Mind you the second ball is absolutely terrifying! it must be two centimeters from his nose.

alun,

I called you a racist on another thread some time ago.

I apologise to you for that if I misconstrued your views. It is not a nice thing to call someone particularly if they are not. Sorry.

Yes, what an extraordinary misjudgement you made Whisperingdeath, based on zero knowledge of the facts. Still, you're not the only one on here to have rushed to the same ludicrous misjudgement as it happens.

Some forumites would doubtless have gone crying to the Moderator or a Lawyer, but I accept your apology and simply ask you not to defame me in that manner again. It takes a big man to publicly admit he was wrong.

It was good to see Michael 'Whispering Death' Holding at York Races today on ITV btw. The Great Man is my all-time favourite fast bowler, but I also loved to see him smite the ball hard during many a thrilling WI tail-end knock.  He also once played a quiet but vital innings of 12 not out in a 10th wicket partnership of 106 with a certain I V A Richards at Old Trafford in 1984 in the opening Texaco Trophy match that unforgettable summer.

I was lucky enough to speak with MH for the best part of an hour in Trinidad 1995, during that controversial WI-Australia test that ended in around 3 days. He strolled over to have a chat with fans and by the time he'd finished, there was a small army of us asking questions. He was also kind enough to sign a Trinidadian banknote for me, which hopefully I can be buried with, along with my Steffi Graf/Marion Bartoli signed memorabilia, and my Phil Taylor signed dartboard. 

Good luck.

yes!

an extraordinary misjudgement!

I am truly sorry.

Michael was (and is) a true gent.

Here's a glorious reminder of his batting. Remember this like it was yesterday. A Saturday morning of carnage at Edgbaston in 1984. We join it as England have done most of the hard work, limiting the WI to around 400 as the tail enders come in.

Then the fireworks start…


.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4MXys7IZ-k

no helmet for Brian Close those were the days

remember my elder brother bowling bouncers at me in garden with cricket ball

asked him for helmet

he said your bat your defence


hope your well alun

Not too bad Cap'n, despite the many things sent to try my patience.

Good advice from your brother I say.


Here's an even more belligerent half century from Mikey that same golden summer.

.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg1b6xXZ51I

They were nigh unbeatable. Kids in Windies must be playing a different sport now?

COD....yep !

Just read this comment on the link you put up WD

It's said that the late Brian Close only ever once complained about pain - when he was in hospital having a dislocated shoulder put back in.   "Really," the nurse told him, "there's a woman having twins downstairs and she's not making half as much fuss."   "You try shoving them back in," Close replied, "and see how she likes it."

Hard to believe that clip is from over 40 years ago!

100 for Hope

Shai Hope becomes the first player to score centuries in both innings of a first-class match at Headingley.

WI 284-4

38 runs to win from 13 overs...

Windies need 30 from 10 overs......

Three runs an over doesn’t need anything too exotic,” says Mikey Holding

A stunning victory....WEST INDIES win by 5 wickets.... their first win in England in 17 years.

Funny how Sport can turn things around
I can remember in 1989 when England won their first test against the Windies in 15 years.

What a STUNNING victory !!

Brilliant effort, particularly by Hope and Brathwaite. With a little help from Root's curious declaration and some profligate bowling.

Now BUILD on this West Indies.

Shortest demise ever.

Root should be applauded for his declaration which set up an exciting final day.
Test cricket has been in decline for years, but hopefully with forward thinking captains like Root and Steve Smith
the era of the " don't lose declaration" might be about to end.

how bad is the current team anyway? No worse than England were last month vs S Africa at Trent Bridge (or the Convicts were on their last tour here - 60 all out), never mind India, and the way they rolled over on both their last tours here

Not bad at all, as it turns out. Might have been a different story, though, had the umpires called Gabriel's 50-odd no balls, and the big man had had to bowl with that threat hanging over him.

Brathwaite and Hope both Bajans - what an amazing nation (though Hope had the benefit of several years at school in Sussex).