Who to let in to UK ? bbc2 9pm - Ian Hislop

Probably too high-brow for chit-chat

It was a decent watch but could only come up with the obvious. We had open borders when we had room and could afford it, and then we closed them. Re-opening them has proved problematic and devisive inside a decade.

Then no cheap mass transport, no media/mobile phones to present/confirm reality, much smaller populations, much lower standard of living, no welfare state. Incomers started at the bottom in the usual 'slum' boroughs with little help - or hindrance. Judging by the past week or so incomers now expect rather more for the privilege of living (and dying) in the middle of what must be the most expensive city in the world. About 40% of the capital's pop now foreign born, higher in inner London. London is no longer representative of the rest of the country.  Experience suggests this will not end well.

i thought hislop was looking at where attitudes came from?

There was an article in The Times last week by a woman who thought that we should all be taxed much more to pay for decent social housing for all the foreigners who come to London to work as baristas, uber drivers, pizza delivery, cleaners etc and that it was a disgrace
the conditions they were forced to live in.  She cited examples of a dozen sleeping in a two bed flat and hot bedding.

1.  No-one forces them to come here.
2.  Would it be so bad if she couldn't have a 'cheap' cup of coffee or taxi ride?

Typical London-centric nonsense.

Why should the rest of the country be expected to pay more tax so that the conscience of London's coffee drinking, uber-riding  privileged liberals can be assuaged.

London is no longer representative of the rest of the country.  Experience suggests this will not end well.

London never has been "representative of the rest of the country" and these doom-laden warnings have been being issued for years,
which was kind of the point of this programme.
The "it wont end well" rhetoric tends to be a self fulfilling, we will try to make sure it doesn't end well, prophecy. 

whether you like it or not, want it to continue or want to close the borders entirely there is no doubt that mass
immigration in the past made London an economic powerhouse yet so many that argued against it were the beneficiaries.

The main thrust of this programme was that genuine worries over immigration have long been used for political capital,often
hysterically and regardless of the facts and not much has changed in that regard.

I know it was a very different era but it was still interesting to see Churchill was the main man arguing for free movement
of people.
I wonder what side of the brexit debate he would be on today?

Good post Jack and very well articulated.

An interesting program I watched it Leopard as I couldn't find any re runs of Jeremy Kyle on, not to high brow understood 40% of it It seemed to me that this country's open door policy was more out of arrogance than humanity, we're the greatest country in the world. Of course you want to live here which was a different approach to the Americans "Give me your tired, your poor etc etc. Which in both cases was right for the day but times have changed with both countries having strict immigration policies now.

Excellent post northanlite the most erudite post on this thread.

Indeed fife, he only refers to London though. What about Rochdale, Oldham, Dewsbury, Luton and dozens of similar towns? There are huge swathes of the country where there is no silver lining, the opposite in fact.

A silver filling?

bodil's post says it all.

It wasn't Treasure Island in those days.

what happened in the past is meaningless in relation to what happens today. Because the people in the past were different to the people of today, and the country was different.
they were very talented people back then, and the country was a very talented country.

a country like that can absorb all sorts of waifs and strays.

If it wasn't for immigration we would be living in caves,the world over immigration happens because of War,famine,religious persecution and resources
the U.S.A is almost completely occupied by immigrants who arrived from Europe yet they complain about their next door neighbours.It's a funny old
World.

there are no immigrants in America

that may not be absolutely true, but it is true non the less.

there has never before, in history been a country that has willingly done what Britain, and other European countries are now doing, signing their own death warrant.

Breedingmad    23 Jun 17 11:06 
If it wasn't for immigration we would be living in caves,the world over immigration happens because of War,famine,religious persecution and resources


Same old historical rhetoric, they didn't arrive by the million knowing the UK taxpayer would support them.

there are no immigrants in America

Saddo the support Refugees receive will not bankrupt our country what they receive is pocket money
we only let in 13,000 Syrian refugees hardly a burden on the 5th richest Country.

breedingmad America didn't exist. People weren't immigrants, they just went there and founded a new country that hadn't existed before.
That`s why I said there are no immigrants in America, an exaggeration but with the underlying truth when you compare it to the present world
and Britain and other countries.

Between 2005 and 2016 the UK population increased by over 5 million.

That's fine if you want a global socialist world where everyone should be able to live where they want and then expect to be housed and fed where they decide to settle. In practice that is unsustainable.

If all the antelopes in Africa gravitate to the same lakes they will all perish and the lakes will run dry.

You don't half spout bow locks 1971

You don't half spout bow locks 1971

American Indians never existed are you sure America was unoccupied ?

of course breeding mad, how did that work out?

These pesky Europeans taking their land.

Which bits of the U.K. belong to you 1971?

now now breedingmad, either the land belonged to the Indians or it didn't , either way I don't think you could call the Americans immigrants, it doesn't matter the outcome remained the same.

Of course it could have been worse for America and the world , and it may have been some other more alien and less democratic culture that took control and created something less beautiful and less benign than a country based on British and European values .

America may have been something else entirely, but luckily they are like us.

I believe the "Indians" walked over a land bridge from Siberia, Bm.

if you don't call them immigrants what would you call them? Settlers, occupiers, invaders?
Either way they emigrated so surly they were emigrants who become immigrants.

I think I've explained that.

Entirely predicable programme and conclusion from Hislop.

When you see everything from the position of a metropolitan professional you get a completely different perspective from those who are effected by the negative aspects of the greatest mass movement of people in the history of this country.

If what you're saying is as I take it an admission you place people from different countries
in some sort of table that rates the people from Europe as the highest and the rest lower
down your pecking order.A sort of Supremacist table.

That is of no interest to me, we are lucky to have been both into a country such as Britain , orher oarts of the world are not the same. Look around, look around .

Ahh Baron the old arguments are the best if you have money we won't listen to you.

Would I have been happy to have been born in America, or Japan ? Yes why not.

if you have money we won't listen to you.

If you have money you can distance yourself from the negative effects of the greatest movement of people in the history of this country.

Some parts of Britain are more foreign to me than Africa with all its deserts.

Does  a dreamy and beautiful country such as Japan speak to me and seem les foreign ? Yes it does.

If it wasn't for immigration we would be living in caves

You might, I don't know about the rest of us.

Movement of idiots.

Japan is very strict on who they let into their country.

Which parts of Britain are more Foreign to you than Africa and which part of Africa
are you comparing it with?

Good post from TheBaron at 12:22

Goes a long way towards explaining why the tyranny of mass immigration was backed by the professional classes and especially the media.

Like downtown Mombasa the other side of Skinner Lane these days, BM. Certainly doesn't look like England.

Breedingmad fishing for someone to report as usual.

Downtown Mombassa..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzjRdelaAx0

Typical lefty nonsense from Hislop.

Nonsense so which particular bit was nonsense?

Nonsense so which particular bit was nonsense?

250,000 Belgians ..and they went back to Belgium but you can imagine if Farage was alive he would have warned
we would lose our culture and in 50 years the Belgians would own Britain.

As the last Neanderthal why don't all you **** Sapiens fu ck off out of my country

can't say Ho mo

Breedingmad    23 Jun 17 13:34 
250,000 Belgians ..and they went back to Belgium




Aye, unlike the recent mob who want to bring all their family in once they've gor here. No similarity whatsoever, dear me.

They must have affected your life so terribly Saddo, I do feel for you no longer living
in your rose garden.

They have, and thanks for the sympathy.

You could always move to Leeds we have a real mix of all Races and Nationalities.

I've noticed. Are you happy there m8, or stuck?

Happy as Larry we now have the least number of incidents and crime in our block of flats than any other in Leeds
,due to the number of foreigners who live here no doubt ..everyone here is very friendly..

You don't have a poo on your own doorstep.

When our block was occupied by mainly Brits it was rife with drugs and alcohol abuse ,now
they have all been evicted and the flats are now peaceful and quiet for most of the time.

How did you know they were Brits before and aren't now?

What does a Brit look like these days?

nearly 25 per cent will look somewhat different to 30 years ago.  Mad nut may be confused.

Depends on the people's circumstances in my experience, if they're on the dole you can expect drug and alcohol abuse. While people who work tend to be a safer bet.

I always enjoy history so from that point of view it was a good watch.

Unfortunately it was laced with Hislop (and his kind)s not-so hidden agenda - extremely politicized in one direction only : to promote multiculturalism and
demonize any individuals (politicians, journalists) or groups (the press) that held the opposing view, as bigots.

The whole documentary could be summed up in a couple of sentences :
Look how racist most people were back in the old days, thanks to reading lots of hate-filled propaganda which turned them against poor defenceless migrants.
Lets make sure history doesn't repeat itself because the same thing is happening now with poor defenceless refugees/migrants, blah blah.

Any free thinking person can see that you cannot compare those times with modern times.
But that is what they always do, they play the shlt.ty comparisons game, comparing apples with oranges, ants with elephants etc.

As for Churchill, despite the left wing media's recent and shameful fake news story about Sir Winston's admiration for Islam, we know the truth. It's already out there, and documented, and verified.
He was a harsh critic and warned about the dangers of Islam. If around today, he would certainly not be in favour of open borders and would be at the very front of the Brexit campaign.

If you keep filling the ferry with passengers it will eventually capsize, as we have seen in many accidents at sea.

Jun 23, 2017 -- 8:44AM, Breedingmad wrote:

You could always move to Leeds we have a real mix of all Races and Nationalities.

My son is there at  Uni....seems to be enjoying it

remember the HIGNFY the day after the vote, Hislop was INCANDESCENT WITH RAGE

....made me feel good !

What's the point of a 'freedom of movement' agreement when the traffic is all one way, what's in it for us?

There's more British expats living in Australia than the whole of Europe, why? because we share a common language and culture, I have young family members living and working there now and others in the US don't think any of them ever considered Romania or Poland as an option, what's the chance of a UK bricklayer or bus driver finding work in Bulgaria but they can in Aus, NZ, USA.

Vince Cable prating on about millions of youngsters being deprived of their future in Europe because of Brexit none of whom intended living or working there anyway, but give them the chance at Aus or the States there off like a shot.

There is no point in freedom of movement potlis. What's in it for us? Higher bills for propping up the incoming low paid with benefits. The more we take, the poorer we get.