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20 Jun 16
12:11
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14 Sep 04
If one were to examine the behaviour of the main protagonists during this debate (Cameron, Osborne, Sturgeon, Blair, Brown et alia in the remain camp; Johnson, Gove, Farage, Grayling, Mann et cetera for leave) which argument, if any, has been conducted with the more honour and probity?
For me, it is those in favour of leaving the European Union who have shown the most moral rectitude by quite some margin.
For me, it is those in favour of leaving the European Union who have shown the most moral rectitude by quite some margin.
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Nope. scaremongering from both sides. So a bit like a general election I suppose.
'Leave' have been utter filth. As you'd expect of course.
this poster gives you an idea about integrety
https://twitter.com/search?q=%22Vote%20Leave%22&src=tren
https://twitter.com/search?q=%22Vote%20Leave%22&src=tren
Cameron and Osbourne are the biggest shysters going in this referendum.
Osbourne claims he has no economic plan if we Brexit so offers a colossal austerity budget instead.
This blackmail was never mentioned in the Tory manifesto at the last GE.
Charlatans the pair of them.
Osbourne claims he has no economic plan if we Brexit so offers a colossal austerity budget instead.
This blackmail was never mentioned in the Tory manifesto at the last GE.
Charlatans the pair of them.
There is quite a difference between the scaremongering on each side. Remain have caused fear at what might happen to the economy. Of course a recession is virtually guaranteed (nearly all independent economists agree) but they have gone to the far end of possibilities with regard to how long and deep that recession might be. The leave campaign have wagered a campaign based on hatred and division of people. Scaremongering and blatantly lying about facts related to the EU and immigration. The remain side should have behaved better, the leave side have been a moral disgrace particularly Farage who seems to get more press than anyone.
Both sides of the debate have individuals whose behaviour has been predictably despicable but please note, gentlemen, I specified the main protagonists in the original post.
In my view, the leading members of the leave campaign (Johnson, Gove, Farage, Grayling, Mann for example) have all argued their case robustly, but also with respect and integrity... particularly Michael Gove.
Nobody's words are more misquoted or misrepresented than those of Nigel Farage. Whenever he is permitted to express an opinion free from abuse or interruption (which is seldom) his opinions are eminently reasonable to my mind.
I fully expect Douglas Carswell to come out for Remain before Thursday and say he's going back to the Tories.
Re: the main protagonists -
A couple of years ago Cameron said that it wouldn't be a disaster if we left the EU and Britain could stand on its own two feet. Now he is the lead of the remain campaign and according to him we are on the brink of disaster if we leave.
On the other hand Boris said a couple of years ago that he believed in the EU and access to the single market was a good thing. Now he is the face of vote leave and according to him we need to leave the single market ASAP.
This tells you all you need to know about politicians.
A couple of years ago Cameron said that it wouldn't be a disaster if we left the EU and Britain could stand on its own two feet. Now he is the lead of the remain campaign and according to him we are on the brink of disaster if we leave.
On the other hand Boris said a couple of years ago that he believed in the EU and access to the single market was a good thing. Now he is the face of vote leave and according to him we need to leave the single market ASAP.
This tells you all you need to know about politicians.
in 2005 Cameron was working on a plan to introduce a points based immigration system, that went well
It amazes me that there were frequent calls from the public to be told the facts about the issue. Lol.
So, from politicians, you get propaganda and spin.
The only difference from a general election is that more leaders of the establishment have waded in with their opinion.
Has anyone asked the Archbishop of Canterbury for this view?
FFS. That was a joke!! But I just googled him and the can't reckons we should stay in. I give up.
So, from politicians, you get propaganda and spin.
The only difference from a general election is that more leaders of the establishment have waded in with their opinion.
Has anyone asked the Archbishop of Canterbury for this view?
FFS. That was a joke!! But I just googled him and the can't reckons we should stay in. I give up.
Saw this on Twitter -
Owen Bennett @owenjbennett
Instead of quitting, Warsi should have stayed inside Vote Leave to try and reform it.
Owen Bennett @owenjbennett
Instead of quitting, Warsi should have stayed inside Vote Leave to try and reform it.
Gin.
Regards the Boris Johnson volte-face, have you seen the full interview, sir? I haven't seen it myself, so this is pure speculation, but I got the impression that the short clip of him advocating the single market might have been cynically edited for maximum effect.
Regards the Boris Johnson volte-face, have you seen the full interview, sir? I haven't seen it myself, so this is pure speculation, but I got the impression that the short clip of him advocating the single market might have been cynically edited for maximum effect.
There are, after all, many folks who are in favour of the single market but not any overarching political union.
What do you expect when the least noble, most-venal among us are put into positions of power?
I think it was the mock outrage and generation of more passion than he's ever mustered outside of the bedroom-with- Edwina of John Major a few weeks back that took the 'what the phook am I watching here' needle into the red for me.
I think it was the mock outrage and generation of more passion than he's ever mustered outside of the bedroom-with- Edwina of John Major a few weeks back that took the 'what the phook am I watching here' needle into the red for me.
Can anyone quote one statement of hatred from Farage?
He often gets accused of hate. Seems to me he is demonised with factual reason.
All i here from the hand wringers is that it is the rhetoric of what Farage says.
Have they ever considered it could all be in their mind?
He often gets accused of hate. Seems to me he is demonised with factual reason.
All i here from the hand wringers is that it is the rhetoric of what Farage says.
Have they ever considered it could all be in their mind?
*He often gets accused of hate. Seems to me he is demonised WITHOUT factual reason.
they have gone for Nigel because they have no answers to immigration, and Leave should throw everything into that issue now. When this referendum all started Remain were a way in front as they harped on about economics, Nigel was pretty quiet at the the time. When he started in earnest and brought immigration to the forefront, Remain were being reeled in on every poll, even Boris saw it was working and started using immigration.
We have a points system for NON EU nationals right now - why isn't Eddie Izzard getting his knickers in a twist over that.
They don't like hearing immigration as concern but accept the criteria NON EU nationals have to pass now.
They are a bag of contradictions are the Remain side.
They don't like hearing immigration as concern but accept the criteria NON EU nationals have to pass now.
They are a bag of contradictions are the Remain side.
so with the vote inevitably lost we turn in desperation to who has the most integrity? when's the referendum on this?
Really burton do you think carswell will change to Remain , why and for what reason and re-join the spivs
anx I detest the man nearly as much as Neil Hamilton and I would not trust him as far as I could throw him. He is not UKIP he never has been that's why the filth joined Johnson & Gove at Vote.Leave.
Brexit: AA Gill argues for ‘In’
We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of that most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia
It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me. She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.”
It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?”
Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity.
We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday” with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again.
The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity.
And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.” This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing boy scouts in his shed.
All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.
There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them.
The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.
Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty
We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a shag at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.
Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”
When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”
Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.
Nine out of 10 economists say ‘remain in the EU’
You won’t wake up on June 24 and think: “Oh my word, my arthritis has gone! My teeth are suddenly whiter! Magically, I seem to know how to make a soufflé and I’m buff with the power of sovereignty.” This is something only politicians care about; it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom.
Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.
The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.
There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us. Just look at my day job — food. The change in food culture and pleasure has been enormous since we joined the EU, and that’s no coincidence. What we eat, the ingredients, the recipes, may come from around the world, but it is the collective to and fro of European interests, expertise and imagination that has made it all so very appetising and exciting.
The restaurant was a European invention, naturally. The first one in Paris was called The London Bridge.
Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?
I understand that if we leave we don’t have to hand back our library ticket for European civilisation, but why would we even think about it? In fact, the only ones who would are those old, philistine scared gits. Look at them, too frightened to join in."
We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of that most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia
It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me. She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.”
It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?”
Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity.
We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday” with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again.
The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity.
And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.” This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing boy scouts in his shed.
All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.
There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them.
The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.
Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty
We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a shag at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.
Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”
When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”
Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.
Nine out of 10 economists say ‘remain in the EU’
You won’t wake up on June 24 and think: “Oh my word, my arthritis has gone! My teeth are suddenly whiter! Magically, I seem to know how to make a soufflé and I’m buff with the power of sovereignty.” This is something only politicians care about; it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom.
Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.
The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.
There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us. Just look at my day job — food. The change in food culture and pleasure has been enormous since we joined the EU, and that’s no coincidence. What we eat, the ingredients, the recipes, may come from around the world, but it is the collective to and fro of European interests, expertise and imagination that has made it all so very appetising and exciting.
The restaurant was a European invention, naturally. The first one in Paris was called The London Bridge.
Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?
I understand that if we leave we don’t have to hand back our library ticket for European civilisation, but why would we even think about it? In fact, the only ones who would are those old, philistine scared gits. Look at them, too frightened to join in."
6 years worth of hate
.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/20/shoot-and-stab-nigel-farage-hundreds-of-social-media-messages-urging-attacks-on-ukip-leader-revealed/
.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/20/shoot-and-stab-nigel-farage-hundreds-of-social-media-messages-urging-attacks-on-ukip-leader-revealed/
I don't think the main individuals have done much more than exaggerate their cases.
Osbourne more than any.
Politics is a dirty word.
Poli = Many
Tics = Bloodsuckers
Many Bloodsuckers.
Osbourne more than any.
Politics is a dirty word.
Poli = Many
Tics = Bloodsuckers
Many Bloodsuckers.
"The EU referendum. Has either side campaigned with Integrity"
Politicians and integrity ??? you must be having a laugh.
Politicians and integrity ??? you must be having a laugh.
when farage said he couldn't hear any English spoken on the train
was that BBC english
was that BBC english
Britain Elects @britainelects · 10m10 minutes ago
The Leave campaign has generally been...
Honest: 26%
Dishonest: 43%
Positive: 27%
Negative: 46%
(via YouGov)
The Leave campaign has generally been...
Honest: 26%
Dishonest: 43%
Positive: 27%
Negative: 46%
(via YouGov)
imo both campaigns have been extremely poorly run and neither have put their case well. both have used scare tactics and consequently trust in politicians will have been further eroded.
the leave campaign is based around lie after lie its exacerbated by the right wing tabloids, it's very hard for the remain campaign to keep it's cool. Osborne has made mistakes with regard to scaremongering but it's not nearly as bad as the blatant lies coming out of the leave campaign.
As for Farage, the man is complete filth. He will go to any depths to justify his bigotry and ignorance. The Nazi style poster was the latest example. As for his so called support of the fishermen. The man really has no shame.
As for Farage, the man is complete filth. He will go to any depths to justify his bigotry and ignorance. The Nazi style poster was the latest example. As for his so called support of the fishermen. The man really has no shame.
the remain campaign is based around lie after lie its exacerbated by the left wing tabloids, it's very hard for the remain campaign to keep it's cool. Nigel has made mistakes with regard to scaremongering but it's not nearly as bad as the blatant lies coming out of the remain campaign.
As for Cameron, the man is complete filth. He will go to any depths to justify his bigotry and ignorance. The WW3 and cancer stories the latest example. As for his so called support of the working class. The man really has no shame.
As for Cameron, the man is complete filth. He will go to any depths to justify his bigotry and ignorance. The WW3 and cancer stories the latest example. As for his so called support of the working class. The man really has no shame.
!
actually think remain have gone a bit soft ont he economy side of things.
i expect a big problem over the next 20 years if we exit.
i expect a big problem over the next 20 years if we exit.
Nice to see that BF posters have taken heed of what allowing a difference in opinion can lead to if taken too far - IE poor Jo Cox.
Calling people filth etc etc, just shows how many immature people there are on here.
This must be one of the most classless forums on the internet. Little wonder that I only post infrequently now and am now going to stop with the final observation above.
Calling people filth etc etc, just shows how many immature people there are on here.
This must be one of the most classless forums on the internet. Little wonder that I only post infrequently now and am now going to stop with the final observation above.
jeez what will we do without the honour of reading The Knights observations.......
Fair point made by The Knight but that's social media for you - having to make your point in 147 bytes or whatever it is on Twatter and hardly any better in here.
Apart from one or two carpet chewing mentalists, I strongly suspect that a mass meeting down the pub of the chit-chat illuminati would result in plenty of laughs, a load of 'fair enough, mate' a bit of mickey-taking and us all going home convinced we were right but that we'd learned something had a good night out irrespective.
In here though - we're all psycho-killers.
Apart from one or two carpet chewing mentalists, I strongly suspect that a mass meeting down the pub of the chit-chat illuminati would result in plenty of laughs, a load of 'fair enough, mate' a bit of mickey-taking and us all going home convinced we were right but that we'd learned something had a good night out irrespective.
In here though - we're all psycho-killers.
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