The demise of the Great British pub

"There has certainly been a massive backlash against alcohol in the UK, with per capita consumption declining by 18pc since 2004, one of the most interesting figures that I have come across in a long time. But that alone is only one of the many reasons why the pub trade has suffered so badly. The decline in alcohol consumption has been driven primarily by a slump in beer sales: in 2003, the average adult drank 218 pints per person; by 2011, they consumed just 152 pints, an astonishing 30pc drop."

The youngsters of today are obviously lightweights!

The smoking ban didn't help at all imo. I'm a smoker and can't stand the thought of having to stand outside to have a ciggie; it is almost a stigma to smoke these days. I feel that each town should have special smoking licences for 2-3 or even 4 pubs to be smoking pubs. If you don't smoke, then don't go there. I guarantee these pubs would be packed out every weekend!

Absolutely right, Aspro - and every non-smoker who wanted to be where 'the buzz' is would flock to them and wouldn't give a fig about the smell.
Well, not quite, they'd still bloody moan - but they'd still go there!

I'm a non-smoker (and have barely ever smoked) and felt the smoking ban destroyed pubs.

Plenty more reasons than the smoking ban though.

And the Woolpack, Queen Vic and the Rovers Return are unnaffected

A typical pub Sky subscription costs about £15,000

In the famous words of John McEnroe... "you cannot be serious!"

Darlo, there may well be more reasons for the demise in pubs than the smoking ban - but that's the main reason for their decline.

I consider myself a smoker, even though I've been on the Vapes for over 4 years now (totally harmless water vapour is all I breathe in and blow out now).

What people have to remember is; smokers are risk takers by nature, therefore are far more fun, interesting and good to have around rather than the sterile, penny-pinching conformists, without a good tale to their name.

That's why the pub trade has taken such a hit, as why should smokers be forced into oblivion - and the cold outdoors - when they (mainly) produced any life to the places, which all non-smokers benefited from?

It's all very well looking at facts and figures, public health and so on on a piece of paper (computer these days) but real, live, flesh and blood people with (or without) a brain in their heads, with ultimate character are all that matter.

Deny them a place to socialise - and the whole pack of cards come tumbling down.

The pubs near me are an absolute joke, a couple of them are proper old fashioned boozers but the vast majority are basically gastropubs. A tenner wouldn't pay for 2 pints and a bag of crisps.

The no smoking ban is a facade to suggest how clean and moral us lawmakers are

We will never see again pubs full like they were in the eighties. Used to be great. Just awful places now. Like  going to McDonald's .

"What people have to remember is; smokers are risk takers by nature, therefore are far more fun, interesting and good to have around rather than the sterile, penny-pinching conformists, without a good tale to their name."

Err, hold on a minute. I think you'll find that there are an extremely large number of risk takers that are non-smokers, particularly on a site like this one! I have seen no evidence whatsoever that smokers are any more (or any less) fun, interesting, or good to have around. How anyone can defend inflicting disgusting habits on others in public places beggars belief. You stink, as do your and our clothes after a night with you "fun" people. I don't miss selfish b'stards in pubs at all, nor do I wish my health to be put at risk.


Risks of passive smoking

Passive smoking can damage your body because secondhand smoke contains more than 4,000 chemicals, many of which are irritants and toxins, and some of which are known to cause cancer. Passive smoking from all forms of tobacco is harmful, including:
cigarettes
cigars
pipe tobacco
hand-rolling tobacco
shisha pipes (also called hookahs or waterpipes)
Frequent exposure to other people's smoke can increase your risk of lung cancer, even if you're a non-smoker. Passive smoking also increases your risk of coronary heart disease. Coronary heart disease can cause a heart attack, angina (chest pain) and heart failure. It also increases your risk of stroke.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/2289.aspx?categoryid=53&

What happened was they banned smoking ,Now I smoke I used to go to the pub an average of 4 nights a week being at the Dogs another 2 ,the ban came in I decided to take time out ,I didn,t return and I dont miss it , I might go the pub for a couple
of drinks twice a month these days, if that ,agree with Slip mostly gastro shyte these days with people sharing a bottle of
wine ,atmosphere is zero ,The locals as they were known and Loved are few and far between ,most pubs now ran by companies
Gone are the Days when the Guvner helped people out in bad times ETC ,you can have you smoke free Zones Stow ,I and thousands
more like me wont be returning ,your Lungs and Clothing are safe If as your name suggests you live in north London I might keep an EYE on Air quality as well

I agree with the earlier suggestion that we could have a few smokers pubs in each town, perhaps with only smokers working in them.

Our local does much better after the smoking ban. The gaffer also got rid of Sky because of the cost so now more women and families use the pub. The days of blokey dinosaurs (Clarkson comes to mind) will soon be over.
But a few smokers pubs are a good idea where the blokey dinosaurs can ruin their own health and not other people's.

I believe the smoking ban is way overstated. Cheap supermarket booze is the main reason. People drink in groups at home, then go out. To make money put of a boozer nowadays you have to sell a shiit load of food. Plenty of pubs closed around here, but plenty of gastro places opening at the same time. Longer opening hours and a change to continental cafe culture also responsible.

Nightclubs are dropping at a rate of knots too, for the same reason.

Crime also a big factor. All the brutalist boozers on council estates became a mecca for drug dealers and local riff-raff. Please can close a place down very easily now.

*police.

"come and pay over £3 a pint and you can stand outside in the cold sh1tty shed we built for you"....

or stay at home, invite mates round, get a tinny for less than a quid and smoke where you like (for those that like smoking in a shed one is available at the bottom of the garden and it even has 4 sides!).

Agree about supermarket booze.

Probably about 3 times as expensive to drink in a pub that at home.

Also drink driving.

Also, there are now a lot more leisure options than to sit in a pub all night.

Socially, not really acceptable for dads to be in the pub every night, these days, spending his wages/wife's housekeeping.  Nowadays, they need to take their sons to ballet.

I like a tin of paint as much as the next man but I actually support the smoking ban. It has had an effect on pubs, undoubtedly, but I agree that cheap supermarket booze has had a greater impact.

Poor pubs are closing; good pubs are thriving. It's capitalism at work.

Pub where I live, Cheltenham, opened less than 3 years ago. Won local CAMRA pub of the year twice running and now SW pub of the year. Excellent ale, no TV, no loud music . Tell them the pub trade is dying!

The rate of pub closures must surely be linked to the immigration rate.

How long before pubs are banned in that wonderful multicultural borough of Newham.

It is difficult for a small independent pub to survive without doing food these days.  I do miss good boozers with no food no fruit machines and no music.  In the old days the landlord often still worked and the wife looked after the pub.  With overheads as they are and the breweries always wanting their pound of flesh it is not easy. 

I am not sure the smoking ban has had so much affect.  Smoking is an awful habit and I think the smoking ban was a good move.

What people have to remember is; smokers are risk takers by nature, therefore are far more fun, interesting and good to have around rather than the sterile, penny-pinching conformists, without a good tale to their name.

Possibly the biggest load of old bollocks ever written on Chit Chat.

In my area a few 'new' pubs have opened up.  They are generally small, focus on decent beers and ciders.  They are sparsely decorated and have no music, no tv, no sport.
They might sell a cob or a pork pie.  They do seem to be doing OK.

What people have to remember is; smokers are risk takers by nature, therefore are far more fun, interesting and good to have around rather than the sterile, penny-pinching conformists, without a good tale to their name.

  Great stuff Tommy.

Jack

Are they micro pubs? They seem to be popular and increasing in the South East.

Looking up the definition of micro pubs, YES!

They are really a nod to the early days of pubs which was just someone opening up their front room and served some ale from jugs, when every xth house was a pub!

Parispike - is that the Sandford ale house by chance?

I'm glad my post has caused so much merriment!

Give me a pub full of smokers any day over the sterile, penny-pinching conformist without a f@g to their name!

Where are they all by the way, when they were supposed to be flocking to the pubs when the smoking ban kicked in?

I'll tell you where they are - saving their sheckels for an 'as much as you can eat' Sunday lunch at a pub, loading their plates to the hilt, stuffing their hodges whilst sipping a glass of free tap water - and then buggering off home.
So the landlord makes nowt!

- and remember; I haven't smoked for over 4 years.

Nothing worse then those huge Hungry Horse type places especially on a Sunday. Kids all over the shop and chavs queuing up for their £6 carvery. Hell holes.

Just wondered……. what is the one, single, common, undeniable personality trait that smokers share?

They're not afraid to take risks with their health  for a bit of pleasure - and my god, how we need a bit of pleasure in this world.

They're not afraid to take risks with their health  for a bit of pleasure

Fookin hilarious

i'm all for tins of paint in pubs

Wetherspoons opened a branch in Cork at the start of Sept,only in there once but the place was hopping at 7.00pm. Easy in part with them as they have some bit of bargaining power with the breweries but cheap pint (E2.5-E3.85 against a usual E5+) and very reasonable grub which looked okay. They are going to do well.
After foisting the mock Irish Pub(O Neills etc) on ye for the last few decades,it is payback time it seems and a good thing i think for the consumer.

went for a few jars on sunday around 1.0 clock all of 7 people in there

any one had the pleasure of running there own pub

Mr Eboue - yes it is. Do you frequent it? I'll buy you a drink if so!

PS sorry for delay - been to Exeter!

Peterhiggins     Guilty as charged. Owned, and more importantly, worked my own pub for 21 years, been in the licensed trade since 1971, and been a licensee in my own right since 1988.

##  been in the licensed trade since 1979 ##  sorry, misleading typo

A few years ago there was a rush of people (usually with redundancy money) that the pub companies could rely on to invest money into these loss making business'. That seems to have ended and most people realise you have to be experienced and a pretty canny businessman to make good money in the licensed trade.

You are spot on Coopeman. Back in 1987 I was working in a pub in Sheffield with a big function room. Once a month it would be hired by Whitbreads who would run a 3 day training course for wannabe pub landlords. Virtually all of the candidates were ex miners or steelworkers with a redundancy cheque in their pockets and a naive understanding of what they were about to let themselves into. The breweries were rubbing their hands with glee.

Travelled all over UK at one time and wherever you were you could find a decent boozer, have the craic with the locals and be welcomed like a long lost mate the next time you called in. Sadly no more.

to be fair, cooperman, they were gay bars.

the coat yes I had 20 yrs behind bars

my view for the demise of the great british pub all day drinking people have only so much money for a start all day drinking when you are in a sunny country sat out side this would be great at home if we could do this I think we all said this years ago but that was before I had pubs. beer in cans the product now is very good take Guinness for example how good is canned Guinness and when you buy them when on offer at the supermarket its 70p  - 80 p a can  4 quid in a pub I know that there are overheads  when years ago bottled beers were all gas two mouth fulls you were bloated. this day and age you can stay at home and drink and smoke if you like watch sport from all over the world with a 50 inch tv with hd colour order what ever takeaway you want delivered to your door in under an hour so if a couple go out you are looking at 100 pound for the night out you can booze all week for that and have change a couple of years ago when we were back in the uk went to a pub in leeds got 2 pints of  cider gave him a tenner expected a bit of change no it was a fiver a pint

My Dad in laws new wife runs a pub in Liverpool. It is a struggle but she's been in the trade long enough to know how to get punters through the door. Social Media is a big thing for her.

I think price of a pint is a big killer. £3 in my local but £3.50 in the city centre. A spirit and mixer is an even bigger rip off. I think that's why we've seen a lot of home pubs spring up. I brew my own and can make a decent guinness clone for around 50p a pint.

The shift in our daily lives also means we've other things to do so for many pubs are not a priority.

The only pints I drink now are at the football on a Saturday.

There are a few left. The Prince Albert at Frieth , Brakspeare ,is worth a look if you are in the area. I don't know if they still serve the beer in a jug fresh from the cellar but they used to and it was grand beer. Brakspeare's Special or the Old were worthy of a pilgrimage.

My Aussie viewpoint. My father's generation and those before him all stopped into the pub on the way home from work and drank until dinner time (married men) or beyond (single men and soon to be single men). Random breath testing in around '82 put a kybosh on that. Other factors such as multiculturalism and just a change in the mindset of young people have played a part. The astonishing difference between the price of tap beer and bottle shop beer. I don't think the smoking ban has had as big an effect here as Tommy believes. There's other stuff for people to do these days. It's no longer go home and have the choice of four boring channels on TV.