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What a let down..must have known the currency issue was going to be aired
floundered like a fish on the sand..very very poor performance
lazy lazy garbage space alians drive on the right..walofs
lost a lot of respect for this guy tonight..used to admire..not now
yes vote doomed.
floundered like a fish on the sand..very very poor performance
lazy lazy garbage space alians drive on the right..walofs
lost a lot of respect for this guy tonight..used to admire..not now
yes vote doomed.
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IF you'd listened PROPERLY, you'd have realised that the aliens (note spelling) and driving on right bit was a lead up to a serious question. The quotes were from blurtings from Andy Burnham.
he failed miserably on currency issue..darling 47 salmond 37% says it all pal
thank god i did not bet on this as i would have had a big bit on salmond to win a debate with mrgrey darling.
thank god i did not bet on this as i would have had a big bit on salmond to win a debate with mrgrey darling.
I'll be voting yes. Salmond is normally a very shrewd operator. He blew it tonight.
he was well ahead and then he blew it talking aliens and right-hand driving, can only assume he wanted to ridicule Darling, but it backfired - audience didn't see the funny side. I never thought I'd see the day when Salmond lost a debate, esp to a lettuce like Darling, but he gave it away big time, last night.
I don't think he lost it as such, in fact I admire him for sticking to his guns on the currency question. Of course the printed press were full of it as expected, and such as the Record should hang it's head in shame for not asking why Darling and Labour are in bed with the Tories, when the paper usually loves to attack them. Don't you think it's remarkable that Darling had no answer to the points about 30,000 Scots children below the poverty line and dependent on food banks? Or that the press seem unperturbed about it?
I asked this on the Referendum debate thread on Football, but I expect it'll get lost in there.
In the event of a currency union, would the yes voters expect an equal Scottish representation on the BOE MPC that sets interest rates? Equal input to setting the criteria for those rates?
Surely the above question is crucial as to whether rUK would agree to a currency union?
In the event of a currency union, would the yes voters expect an equal Scottish representation on the BOE MPC that sets interest rates? Equal input to setting the criteria for those rates?
Surely the above question is crucial as to whether rUK would agree to a currency union?
Salmond is making it up as he goes along – and now he’s been caught
..By Ian Dunt | Talking Politics – Mon, Feb 17, 2014.
I used to have a good little system for bunking off sports in school. I knew how long to wait so I could sign in, where to go to escape without being seen and how to time it to make sure my parents wouldn't be home if anyone from the school tried to call. It was relatively well constructed but, of course, it eventually fell apart.
I learned an important lesson back then: you'll never get away with it forever. Unless you plan very carefully, you'll usually get caught out.
Alex Salmond is currently discovering this lesson on a rather bigger stage. For years he has been making it up as he goes along. But suddenly he is being found out. Chancellor George Osborne has ruled out currency union and European Commissioner president Jose Manuel Barroso has said it would be "extremely difficult if not impossible" for an independent Scotland to join the EU.
This one-two punch, on the SNP's electoral and emotional sweet-spots, poses an existential threat for Salmond's campaign for Scottish independence. It is like the harsh light of sobriety on the mind of an alcoholic. It's the first moment political facts have intervened in Salmond's lazy, irresponsible imagination.
Stare deep into Salmond's career and the most telling element is that of absence. Aside from independence, he appears to have no political conviction whatsoever.
It is there in the foundations of his current political mission. When asked to adopt the leadership of the SNP following the resignation of John Swinney in 2004, Salmond quoted union army general William Sherman, who, on being asked to run for president following the American Civil War, declared: "If nominated I'll decline. If drafted I'll defer. And if elected I'll resign."
But everything changed shortly afterwards, when he found himself entering the leadership race "with a degree of surprise and humility, but with a renewed determination". He has the consistency of a flag on a windy day.
Even his personality seemed to change, from bitter aggression to beaming, cheeky bon-homie.
His politics are the same: indistinct and liable to change colour. Take a step towards them and they take one step further away.
His influence was established by his membership of the '79 Group, a socialist campaign within the SNP. A few years later he was praising himself for having "given the SNP a social democratic identity". But even that drift to more centrist politics did not tell the whole story.
For all his professed commitment to social democracy and a generous welfare state, Salmond reveals more by his friendships than his words.
The Leveson Inquiry revealed how Salmond and Rupert Murdoch exchanged admiring letters and held private dinner dates. He held more than two dozen meetings with the press baron or his executives. In its final report, the inquiry said: "Mr Salmond’s readiness... to stand ready to assist News Corp is striking". Salmond's desire to lobby for the BSkyB deal "would have rendered the decision unlawful" if it had taken place.
When the time came for Salmond's left-wing credentials to be tested, he put the needs of rich American right-wingers over those of local people. Donald Trump took time out from trying to prove Barack Obama is not American to demand an obscene golf complex for the super rich in Scotland. It was "called in" by Salmond, despite the objections of local planners, environmentalists and local people. The plans were eventually pulled following a legal dispute.
His lack of conviction isn't just a matter of ideology. It fundamentally affects his judgement on the constitutional issues raised by independence. Simply put: there is no political idea so insignificant Salmond will not have developed more than one position on it.
His U-turns are as numerous as they are weighty. He was for the euro and then against the euro. He branded sterling a "millstone around Scotland's neck" and then decided he wanted it. He thought Iceland, Ireland, Norway, Finland and Denmark could form an "arc of prosperity in the northern rim of Europe, in a speech which showed he was unaware of the differences between high-tax-and-spend Scandinavian economies and low-tax economies like Ireland. He was later to change his mind when Iceland and Ireland fell apart in the wake of the financial crisis.
He was against Nato. And then he was for Nato. He said he had seen the legal advice on EU membership. And then it emerged it did not exist.
When president of the European Council Herman Van Rompuy finally did state the position, it was clear that Scotland would have to go through the full accession process to join the EU. He also rejected Salmond's imaginary notion that Scottish membership could be finalised while it was still part of the UK.
It doesn't matter what anyone says. The SNP just keep spewing forth the same myths and bedtime stories. Deputy first minister Nicola Sturgeon was insisting today that Scottish membership could be finalised in 18 months. She's like a wind-up toy in an empty room.
Salmond is a chancer. When you look into his politics, you find nothing but air. He comments first and only afterwards bothers to check if what he said was true. As his biographer David Torrance noted: "As in so many other areas, the SNP only thought seriously about the ramifications of retaining sterling having already announced it."
Now he has been caught out on the two biggest issues imaginable: currency and EU membership.
His response is to brand Osborne a fellow chancer – a man bluffing before pulling a volte-face after the referendum. Osborne is many things, almost all of them bad, but on this issue he is not unwise.
Why would Britain enter into currency union so it can shackle itself to an independent state but still have to bail it out if things go pear shaped – a not unrealistic scenario given Salmond's judgement?
And why would Scotland want independence just so it can be economically controlled by London but without any representation? What kind of independence is that?
Why would the EU allow Scotland membership a manner which is not consistent with rules for other states? What would happen to Scottish citizens in Europe if Scotland, as seems almost inevitable, had its EU membership cancelled, even if temporarily?
Salmond's response to these weighty issues has been to slander and obfuscate. He branded Barroso's comments "preposterous" and "nonsense". This is the European Commissioner president - not some talking head commentator on Sky News. He cannot be written off with Salmond's colourful bluster.
His currency union argument is entirely emotional. He seeks to play to the gallery with the meaningless statement that "the pound is as much Scotland's as the rest of the UK". It is pure fairy tale politics.
Here is the simple fact about Alex Salmond: he's making it up as he goes along.
His absence of consistent political beliefs is merely a character deficiency. But his wilful disinterest in the issues which will affect the lives of his fellow countrymen is a substantial failure of political responsibility.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/comment/talking-politics/salmond-making-goes-along-now-caught-160806291.html
..By Ian Dunt | Talking Politics – Mon, Feb 17, 2014.
I used to have a good little system for bunking off sports in school. I knew how long to wait so I could sign in, where to go to escape without being seen and how to time it to make sure my parents wouldn't be home if anyone from the school tried to call. It was relatively well constructed but, of course, it eventually fell apart.
I learned an important lesson back then: you'll never get away with it forever. Unless you plan very carefully, you'll usually get caught out.
Alex Salmond is currently discovering this lesson on a rather bigger stage. For years he has been making it up as he goes along. But suddenly he is being found out. Chancellor George Osborne has ruled out currency union and European Commissioner president Jose Manuel Barroso has said it would be "extremely difficult if not impossible" for an independent Scotland to join the EU.
This one-two punch, on the SNP's electoral and emotional sweet-spots, poses an existential threat for Salmond's campaign for Scottish independence. It is like the harsh light of sobriety on the mind of an alcoholic. It's the first moment political facts have intervened in Salmond's lazy, irresponsible imagination.
Stare deep into Salmond's career and the most telling element is that of absence. Aside from independence, he appears to have no political conviction whatsoever.
It is there in the foundations of his current political mission. When asked to adopt the leadership of the SNP following the resignation of John Swinney in 2004, Salmond quoted union army general William Sherman, who, on being asked to run for president following the American Civil War, declared: "If nominated I'll decline. If drafted I'll defer. And if elected I'll resign."
But everything changed shortly afterwards, when he found himself entering the leadership race "with a degree of surprise and humility, but with a renewed determination". He has the consistency of a flag on a windy day.
Even his personality seemed to change, from bitter aggression to beaming, cheeky bon-homie.
His politics are the same: indistinct and liable to change colour. Take a step towards them and they take one step further away.
His influence was established by his membership of the '79 Group, a socialist campaign within the SNP. A few years later he was praising himself for having "given the SNP a social democratic identity". But even that drift to more centrist politics did not tell the whole story.
For all his professed commitment to social democracy and a generous welfare state, Salmond reveals more by his friendships than his words.
The Leveson Inquiry revealed how Salmond and Rupert Murdoch exchanged admiring letters and held private dinner dates. He held more than two dozen meetings with the press baron or his executives. In its final report, the inquiry said: "Mr Salmond’s readiness... to stand ready to assist News Corp is striking". Salmond's desire to lobby for the BSkyB deal "would have rendered the decision unlawful" if it had taken place.
When the time came for Salmond's left-wing credentials to be tested, he put the needs of rich American right-wingers over those of local people. Donald Trump took time out from trying to prove Barack Obama is not American to demand an obscene golf complex for the super rich in Scotland. It was "called in" by Salmond, despite the objections of local planners, environmentalists and local people. The plans were eventually pulled following a legal dispute.
His lack of conviction isn't just a matter of ideology. It fundamentally affects his judgement on the constitutional issues raised by independence. Simply put: there is no political idea so insignificant Salmond will not have developed more than one position on it.
His U-turns are as numerous as they are weighty. He was for the euro and then against the euro. He branded sterling a "millstone around Scotland's neck" and then decided he wanted it. He thought Iceland, Ireland, Norway, Finland and Denmark could form an "arc of prosperity in the northern rim of Europe, in a speech which showed he was unaware of the differences between high-tax-and-spend Scandinavian economies and low-tax economies like Ireland. He was later to change his mind when Iceland and Ireland fell apart in the wake of the financial crisis.
He was against Nato. And then he was for Nato. He said he had seen the legal advice on EU membership. And then it emerged it did not exist.
When president of the European Council Herman Van Rompuy finally did state the position, it was clear that Scotland would have to go through the full accession process to join the EU. He also rejected Salmond's imaginary notion that Scottish membership could be finalised while it was still part of the UK.
It doesn't matter what anyone says. The SNP just keep spewing forth the same myths and bedtime stories. Deputy first minister Nicola Sturgeon was insisting today that Scottish membership could be finalised in 18 months. She's like a wind-up toy in an empty room.
Salmond is a chancer. When you look into his politics, you find nothing but air. He comments first and only afterwards bothers to check if what he said was true. As his biographer David Torrance noted: "As in so many other areas, the SNP only thought seriously about the ramifications of retaining sterling having already announced it."
Now he has been caught out on the two biggest issues imaginable: currency and EU membership.
His response is to brand Osborne a fellow chancer – a man bluffing before pulling a volte-face after the referendum. Osborne is many things, almost all of them bad, but on this issue he is not unwise.
Why would Britain enter into currency union so it can shackle itself to an independent state but still have to bail it out if things go pear shaped – a not unrealistic scenario given Salmond's judgement?
And why would Scotland want independence just so it can be economically controlled by London but without any representation? What kind of independence is that?
Why would the EU allow Scotland membership a manner which is not consistent with rules for other states? What would happen to Scottish citizens in Europe if Scotland, as seems almost inevitable, had its EU membership cancelled, even if temporarily?
Salmond's response to these weighty issues has been to slander and obfuscate. He branded Barroso's comments "preposterous" and "nonsense". This is the European Commissioner president - not some talking head commentator on Sky News. He cannot be written off with Salmond's colourful bluster.
His currency union argument is entirely emotional. He seeks to play to the gallery with the meaningless statement that "the pound is as much Scotland's as the rest of the UK". It is pure fairy tale politics.
Here is the simple fact about Alex Salmond: he's making it up as he goes along.
His absence of consistent political beliefs is merely a character deficiency. But his wilful disinterest in the issues which will affect the lives of his fellow countrymen is a substantial failure of political responsibility.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/comment/talking-politics/salmond-making-goes-along-now-caught-160806291.html
Seems plan B is firming up, if no currency union, UK can keep all its debt and scotland have own currency. Seems decent enough imo
Stow, that's all old crap. Barroso never had a vote anyway, and his successor Juncker has been far more laid back about the question.
As for the currency, maybe check out Sir George Mathewson, former CEO of RBS, 1987 - 2000. He's the man who knows.
As for the currency, maybe check out Sir George Mathewson, former CEO of RBS, 1987 - 2000. He's the man who knows.
The EC will only reply to formal questions from members states. the UK has not requested such clarification.
Those quoting Barroso know very little about how the EC works, or using it deliberately to mislead, probably bit of both
Those quoting Barroso know very little about how the EC works, or using it deliberately to mislead, probably bit of both
Salmond is one of us. A racing man. Great company at the track and in the pub. He'd be OK at running a local chain of bookmakers, but if you were going to take it over you'd send in forensic accountants - and a few private investigators to rummage through his rubbish.
He doesn't want to win, a face saving defeat gets him Devo Max
and of course he would still be able to blame Westminster as and when
it suited his purpose.
and of course he would still be able to blame Westminster as and when
it suited his purpose.
He knows that he can't win now. But he's stirred up all kinds of future trouble - the English could now vote to leave the Union to avoid subsidising Devo max. Shetland and Orkneys have little in common with the Central Valley - goodbye, with what's left of the oil. Nationalism is rarely a good thing.
He doesn't want to win, a face saving defeat gets him Devo Max
What exactly is "Devo Max"? Don't forget that Salmond originally asked for that to be a third referendum option, without agreement from those now promising "extra powers".
What exactly is "Devo Max"? Don't forget that Salmond originally asked for that to be a third referendum option, without agreement from those now promising "extra powers".
bodil 08 Aug 14 01:07 Joined: 27 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 9,227 | Blogger: bodil's blog
He knows that he can't win now. But he's stirred up all kinds of future trouble - the English could now vote to leave the Union to avoid subsidising Devo max. Shetland and Orkneys have little in common with the Central Valley - goodbye, with what's left of the oil. Nationalism is rarely a good thing.
Can't win now? Six weeks to go - that's about the normal span of a general election campaign. Tortoise and hare.
"Nationalism is rarely a good thing." You know better than that bodil. Please don't try to label us as if we were Nazis, Fascists or Falangists.
He knows that he can't win now. But he's stirred up all kinds of future trouble - the English could now vote to leave the Union to avoid subsidising Devo max. Shetland and Orkneys have little in common with the Central Valley - goodbye, with what's left of the oil. Nationalism is rarely a good thing.
Can't win now? Six weeks to go - that's about the normal span of a general election campaign. Tortoise and hare.
"Nationalism is rarely a good thing." You know better than that bodil. Please don't try to label us as if we were Nazis, Fascists or Falangists.
voting for independence? that means that the SNP might never be in power in Scotland again. Scottish people are voting for independence not the SNP. Salmond should not be the spokesperson for independence. I personally do not like the SNP but will vote for independence. After independence I will vote scottish labour if it exists still.
Sammond has made a good career for himself considering he is a very lightweight politician
he is a career politician and it is just about to end ..but nowadays someone will keep him on as a 'special advisor to the scottish branch of the .....'
After independence I will vote scottish labour if it exists still.
So will a lot of people. All it needs for that to happen is for Labour voters to realise that this is a golden chance to reclaim their party and ditch the Blairite crap. There is also the possibility that the SNP will splinter after independence, with most drifting left of course, thus further strengthening the Labour party.
So will a lot of people. All it needs for that to happen is for Labour voters to realise that this is a golden chance to reclaim their party and ditch the Blairite crap. There is also the possibility that the SNP will splinter after independence, with most drifting left of course, thus further strengthening the Labour party.
if you are I have some interesting video tapes that may interest you...all consenting adults of course.
NO, I'm not, but I'd like to see his face light up when the slime that is A Coulson gets his second courtroom comeuppance.
Each to their own - 'personally' I'd have no faith in Alex Salmond. I don't have to.
Salmond is a formidable politician. I disagree with many of his policies and like many, find him overly smug, but you cannot deny that he knows the system inside out and has built himself an impressive career.
People overlook so much. First, it's not about Salmond and/or the SNP. IF there is a yes vote, the main beneficiary is likely to be the Scottish Labour party as they may well form the first independent govt. That's one good reason for all Labour voters to vote YES. Again, following a YES, the SNP may well splinter into factions with most going left, further strengthening Labour. A Labour follower voting no is a turkey voting for a Tory Christmas.
I hope he's paying you by the word Alias. Sterling work sir. 
it's not about Salmond
Just don't say that to him or your cheque might bounce.
Just don't say that to him or your cheque might bounce.
Well said Alias. The Independence vote has got absolutely nothing to do with Salmond.
It seems we are the only country in the world that doesn't want to govern itself. I think deep down too many people are comfortable having something to blame (the tories) rather than take responsibility.
Almost correct john soapy wants the eu to govern us.
It certainly won't govern rUK after the in/out referendum. Splendid Isolation.
Eeternaloptimist 09 Aug 14 19:58 Joined: 28 Jun 10 | Topic/replies: 26,238 | Blogger: Eeternaloptimist's blog
I hope he's paying you by the word Alias. Sterling work sir.
I know you're not clever enough to have intended that.
Incidentally you don't have to call me "sir". They haven't tried to knight me yet, and if they do, they can shove it.
I hope he's paying you by the word Alias. Sterling work sir.
I know you're not clever enough to have intended that.
Incidentally you don't have to call me "sir". They haven't tried to knight me yet, and if they do, they can shove it.
Is there going to be another Alec Salmon vs Alistair Darling debate?
Heard a rumour that RBS want to put Fred The Shred up to debate the currency union issue...
No, but there might be another Alex Salmond v Alistair Darling one.
Now now Alias. Don't be like that. We both know that not only am I perfectly capable of such a play on words that you are quietly shaking like an epiletic eel that you didn't think of it yourself. Besides it's only yesterday you thought mummy and daddy had paid for me to attend Eton or Harrow.
What's an epiletic eel Eo?
I'm actually relaxing with a nice Rioja, fyi. SALUD!
I'm actually relaxing with a nice Rioja, fyi. SALUD!
the bloke is mental, his reply to the aussie pm words.
Scotland's first minister has said the Australian prime minister's comments on Scottish independence were "foolish, hypocritical and offensive".
Most sane people would had said, 'he is entitled to his view'.
Scotland's first minister has said the Australian prime minister's comments on Scottish independence were "foolish, hypocritical and offensive".
Most sane people would had said, 'he is entitled to his view'.
Abbott is an obnoxious ****. As Salmond said, independence hasn't harmed Australia, but of course this is all part of the establishment plan.
Check this link to see what a nice guy Abbott is, then decide who is closest to "mental".
http://whatistherundude.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/20-quotes-from-tony-abbott-...
Check this link to see what a nice guy Abbott is,
then decide who is closest to "mental".http://whatistherundude.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/20-quotes-from-tony-abbott-...
World leaders should be saying this a matter for the Scottish people.
If the leader of a country that itself has gained independence wants to make such comments about independence then he has to expect some comeback.
If the leader of a country that itself has gained independence wants to make such comments about independence then he has to expect some comeback.
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