Programme on bbc1 now about the great Brazilain team

There was some ranking system i stumbled upon a year or so ago when researching quizzes and hungary came top.  Of all time.  That kocsis and puskas team is even more remarkable as it hasnthad any great footballing pedigree since then.

how come they lost if they were that good?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Football_Elo_Ratings

my elo rating is about 1700.

They lost one game in a 6-7 year period.  Unfortunatelyitwas the world cup final 1954 v germany.  They previously beat germany 8-3 iirc in the same tournament.

I was amazed to learn in that programme last night just what a staggering record that Hungary team of the 50's had. They just did not beat teams, they blew them away. The margin of some of their wins is incomparable. They might not have scored some of the wonder goals which the Brazil team of 70 and 82 scored but you have to factor in that they were playing with a lot heavier football.

Like to correct something in my original post. I failed to mention the Brazil team of 82.

the trouble with all that is, it doesnt take into account (and cant do) how good a standard every other team is. were hungary brilliant, or was everybody else a bit crap? not being born then, i have no idea. right now i think the standard is pretty poor compared to 20 years ago. spain have had it easy in a way, cos theres been no other great teams. this year brazil are favourites and theyve barely got a player who would have got into some of their older teams. how do you judge how well the spanish team of the last decade would have done in the 90s? pretty impossible imo.

Any team can lose a one off match sideshowbob. Germany had taken out Puskas in their group game and he was not fully fit for the final. By all accounts Hungary did everything but win in that final. Hitting posts, crossbars, having a disallowed goal and Germany having a goal allowed which was offside. It was their only defeat in a 6 year period and they changed the way football was played.

fair enough but maybe it was cos everybody else was a bit crap?

steve davis changed snooker, but he wasnt "that" good compared to the era that followed with stephen hendry. it was more that when davis came along, everybody else was a bit hopeless so he looked different class.

I fully agree with your last post Bob. You have to take into account the relative standard of the opposition at the time.  By all accounts the Hungary team of the 50's had some advantages in that they were years ahead of their time in terms of training, formation of their side and even things such as football boots and their their kit. Still needed to have great players to make the most of those advantages.

Bob, I think you might just be winning this argument.

The first world cup I can remember was in 1978 when I was 8. When you get older you might be clouded in your judgement in that you remember things more fondly when you were a certain age. The Holland team of 78 and the Brazil team of 82 are the teams I remember with most joy. Neither won a world cup.

first one i remember is espana 82.

theres no doubt in my mind that the standard has declined in recent years, spain have still been a top team though. its just that theyre on their own. 82-90 there were lots of top teams in there. argentina had some amazing teams back then.

am i watching the same programme youre on about? recorded earlier with gary lineker. thats what im watching.

probably a daft question, but why does brazil have loads of black people, white people and all shades in between people? hardly ever see black players in other south american teams. are native brazillians going back centuries white or black? serious question

UKIP failed there

25/11/1953 England 3 v Hungary 6

They beat us 7-1 a short time later in their back yard.

Astonising skill from Hungary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wdW5p3jd2Y

did puskas play for the allies against nazi germany? the one where stallone was in goal. good game that was.

But were Brazil 1970 a great team, or was their reputation built on a final where they beat Italy 4-1, from 1-1 at half time?
The pitch was soft after heavy morning rain, and Italy had beaten Germany 4-3 after extra time in exhausting semi-final 4 days earlier.

socrates is dead. i didnt know that. dont remember that happening.

The Hungary team in the 66 world cup was decent, too but best players possibly fading by then. I believe they probably had a better side than england who won it.

still remember the evrton fans at goodison chanting, 'hungary, starvin!!'

It was a typical documentary. Too much talk and too little sporting action. It reminded me of many music documentaries.

hardly ever see black players in other south american teams

You not seen the Columbian team?

Hard to take anything away from that 1970 team but they were lucky in two things. It was the first world cup which people could watch in colour on tv and they scored a wonder team goal which sums up their brilliance in 30 seconds of film and will always be shown on tv as long as football is played. That Brazilian team could also do more things with a football which the Hungary team could not due to playing with a lighter football which would would take swerve.

If I had to pick the best goal I have ever seen in my lifetime I would a tie between the Maradonna goal and the second goal Brazil scored against Italy in the 1982 world cup. The ball was passed with the outside of the foot to Falcao. There was nothing on but one off the ball run took three defenders out of the game and Falco cut inside and drilled the ball to the back of the net. Seeing a player make such a contribution without even touching the ball was magical to watch.

The 1954 world cup was the most ridiculous tournament ever devised.
Each team in a group of 4 only played 2 of the other teams, then teams tied on points had a play off game.
But what made it worse was that the 4 group winners went in one half of the draw, and the 4 runners up went in the other half.
The Germans sussed this out, so put in a reserve side against Hungary with the sole aim of crocking Puskas. Beat Turkey twice in the group game and play off, then had an easy ride to the final where they fluked a win over the mighty Magyars.

I can only think it was devised by a young Sepp Blatter who had his money on the Germans!

In reality the current Spain team are the best team ever..

Euro's
World Cup
Euro's
World Cup?

3 Major championships in a row in the modern day long format.

i love watching the old clips of the 60s,70s etc - they are great to watch ,but Lord - those players from the 60s wouldn't get in an international team today

so naive

games were more entertaining though   years ago ,but don't kid yourself about the standard .


some folk would probably tell you Carl Lewis was way faster than Usain Bolt if it wasn't for stopwatches

Moon is right.  Just cheecked out the 1954 tourney on wiki, format must have been designed by people on drugs.  Didnt know that the germans apparently lost to hungary on purpose. Hungarians cheated in the final too.  Gonna read up on the 1978 tourney now, that was another cheat.

The first world cup I watched was 78 in Argentina. My memories are of the ticker tape, the long range goals by Holland, the Archie Gemmel goal and Argentina beating Peru to qualify. Maybe its because you look back fondest with those memories from the happiest time in your life but I would say the two world cups before 78 and one after it were the golden period in football and we wont ever see anything to compare with that time.

NEymar knows how to work yhe ref
Brazil disappointing tonight thought the ref should have been in yellow tbh

Maybe I have just watched the wrong matches but anytime I have seen Nymer play for Barcelona he falls such a long way short of the great player he is made out to be. Not a patch on the more recent Brazilian greats like Rivaldo and Ronaldinho.

All great players have that quality of seeming to have more time on the ball than even the very top players but Neymer always looks like he is racing to a fire.