oscar pistorius may have killed his girlfriend

unfunny - considering

Seems brother carl also due in court in March on culpable homicide charges

looks like the whole family is at it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21563911

Seen a retweet on twitter from Oscar in November about getting home and hearing the washing machine. Thought it was an intruder and went into full reconn mode!

Yes i read that as well GC. Worth bearing in mind i guess. Perhaps he had talked it over with himself as to how he would react with an intruder(potential murderer/rapist) in the house and he made the decision as a disabled person to shoot first.

Perhaps he went into reconn mode it`s a long shot because why approach a potentially deadly situation at your most vulnerable ie on your stumps.

that tweet would lend credibility to a mindset that hears a noise and first thought is intruder.

Yes, this is South Africa. Murder/rape is sky high. From a disabled person`s perspective how much would fear override rational thinking in an intruder situation.

Why would a burglar go into a toilet?

Can't be to hide--because it's the most used room in a house

Perhaps he wanted to freshen up?

Freshen up--why?

It was Valentines Day ffs

Have you not seen the Milk Tray advert.

just to recap, Oscars defence is that he was on one side of toilet door and his girlfriend was on the other, but he could not find any possible way to identify who might be in the toilet and his girlfriend made no noise?
So therefore he shot the door 4 times through the door.

just to recap, Oscars defence is that he was on one side of toilet door and his girlfriend was on the other

No flies on you Brend. I always wondered why there was bullet holes in the door. Thanks for clarifying that.

some may say he hasnt a leg to stand on.

they are right on that one

I think its worth reiterating the central theory of his defence, rather than guessing at his state of mind on the night of the murder via analysis of months old tweets

What is the central theory again Brend. I have forgotten.

too busy reading old tweets?

I read that tweet way back Brend.

I`m interested in your central theory though.

really? here you go

Oscars defence is that he was on one side of toilet door and his girlfriend was on the other, but he could not find any possible way to identify who might be in the toilet and his girlfriend made no noise, so therefore he shot 4 times through the door.

Just a couple of things to add Brend.

Oscars defence is that he was on one side of toilet door on his stumps and his girlfriend was on the other, but he could not find any possible way to identify who might be in the toilet and his girlfriend made no noise(he heard movement from inside the toilet), so therefore he shot 4 times through the door.

yes thats about it, The "on his stumps" bit is to much psychoanalysis for me. It would be ironic for someone who has done much to prove that disabled people arre just like everyone else to use public perception of disabled people as weak to get off on a murder charge

This bit does not add up Brend.

I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There were no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetics legs on, I have mobility on my stumps.
- I believed someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on. I grabbed my 9 mm pistol from underneath my bed.
- On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.

*He believed someone was in his house and was scared enough to grab his pistol. Yet rather than put his prosthetic legs on and stand tall to face a possible intruder he dragged himself backwards to the danger point on his stumps. He chose to face a potential attacker on his stumps. Implausible.

*He chooses to leave Reeva in bed asleep rather than preparing her for a situation with an intruder or to phone the police or shout from the balcony for help. Implausable.

yes hopefully forensics call pull it apart and leave no doubt about what happened

What about her skull caved in by a cricket bat

He's well stumped on that

Urban myth xmoneyx. It was wide of the mark.

He only used it smash the door for 6.

If his defence have got their story straight (and everything has matched up so far) then i think it unlikely that the bullet holes will be high. Otherwise his lawyers would have just told him to tell the police he grabbed his gun and put his legs on before going to the bathroom.

Surely they won't be caught out on something so obvious?

he wanted a new bathroom door but his girlfriend was dead against it

If his defence have got their story straight (and everything has matched up so far) then i think it unlikely that the bullet holes will be high. Otherwise his lawyers would have just told him to tell the police he grabbed his gun and put his legs on before going to the bathroom.

Everything has been subjective so far. It`s been his word against a prosecution with no forensic back up. However the prosecution have always been adamant that the shots were from a standing height and downwards. Without ballistics we don`t know.

As you say Buscuit it would be incredible if he has lied about being on his stumps and not standing. If he is telling the truth then the  reasons for him not putting on his prosthetics will be subjective. However why face an intruder at your most vulnerable?

lmfao     24 Feb 13 21:46 
he wanted a new bathroom door but his girlfriend was dead against it


^ moron

Angel Gabrial
22 Feb 13 01:22

Not sure about that Don. How would him being low down help him to see more of the bedConfused

Don`t forget he shuffles backwards mainly on his stumps. So he shuffles over to the bed and reaches over for his gun from under his pillow. His eyes are not looking over to the other side. So he didn`t realise she wasn`t there.

He has a low style bed no more than about 20 inches high. So from a position sitting on the bedroom floor he would still be looking down on to the bed. It wouldn't be a problem to see anyone in the bed due to the heigh.t

That did cross my mind BIO. Obviously it makes sense for him to have a low style bed.

Only playing DA. What do you think about the fact he would ever approach a potential deadly situation with an intruder on his stumps rather than standing tall on his legs? Obviously there are many things which do not add up. This is one which intrigues me.

How big was the fan? If it was one of those tall ones I would have thought it would be quite difficult to move if he was just on stumps.

I think the ballistics will probably show the gun was fired from a low position as he has stated. Unless he has totally panicked when giving his initial statement and forgotten that ballistics will answer all the what, when and where questions relating to the bullets’ trajectories.

He could argue that he felt he wouldn’t have had time to put his legs on properly to confront the intruder. Leaving him more vulnerable if the intruder appeared in the bedroom.

Where the truth meets lies is difficult to know.

Were they even in the bedroom at the start? I can’t help thinking they weren’t because even he knows it would have been impossible to not see Reeva in bed. They will surely go to his house to recreate the light conditions etc. I think this point will prove a great challenge to the defence.

Last year 15,000 murders in SA. Only one in ten trials resulted in a conviction! The defence counsel have many case histories to call upon when it comes to intruder shootings.

I think the prosecution will need their 'A' game for this one.

The prosecution have been saying from the start that the shots were fired from a standing height downwards, so it will be interesting.

I don't know how much evidence they had of that AG, or were they simply stating their considered opinion.

For example - the defence have insisted that Reeva's empty bladder was proof that she had gone to the toilet recently prior to the shooting and when  magistrate Nair asked Roux on the defence team whether it could be that she had gone maybe an hour earlier he said no. Because, he reasoned, their would still have been urine passed to the bladder after that hour!

The fact is, very soon after death, the urinary (and anal) sphincter muscles quickly relax and empty the bladder. So the bladder would normally be empty at a post mortem anyway. So, were the defense playing ignorant to get a result the way Nel may have been about the shots being fired from height.

And lets hope the trial judge has a bit more of a clue than the bail magistrate seems to have had about post mortem examinations.

The Daily Mail claimed yesterday the police have now told Reeva's family that she was beaten over the head with a cricket bat, an aspect which hasn't been mentioned for a few days. I gained the impression from the article that at the bail hearing they didn't know whose blood it was on the bat - but now they do!

It's interesting to read different views on the crucial issue. For me it's the point that Biscuit made a few days ago. Whatever the state of the light, whether he was wearing his artificial legs or not I cannot believe he would have heard a noise in the bathroom, taken his gun and gone bang bang bang bang through the door without checking where Reeva was first either by looking in the bed, feeling the bed or calling her name. She would be far and away the most likely person to be in the bathroom. Just can't my head round that.

Various people were on the scene in minutes and you can imagine the chaos, panic and confusion. There isn't an awful lot of time to get your version of events watertight, if you are indeed lying. Questions would have been raining in and the pressure to answer overrides the ability to think.

This is why they advised Pistorius to say nothing until the trial where I am certain he must take the stand.

Why would the police leave it until after the bail hearing to confirm that she had been beaten over the head with the cricket bat? Surely some crucial evidence must come forward to determine whether OP gets bail.

Ifthis all started the way he suggests, then she wakes up needing the loo and notices he is not in bed. This has happened to all of us and our first instinct is not to go to the loo because it is already taken or realise he is on the balcony with the door open and call out to see if he is okay. Or, she does go to the loo anyway, and because she knows he is up and not fast asleep, there is no need to keep the room in darkness and at puts a side light on. At the very least she puts the bathroom light on which if you see the room floor plan would through light in to the bedroom area.

There are many natural and obvious human patterns of behaviour like these  mentioned in this thread, but non of them happened according to Pistorius' version of events. How reasonable is that?

Well if i thought their maybe an intruder in the house i would be shaking the bed and grabbing the wife to get ready, not leaving her vulnerable and asleep in bed.
Then i would be sliding my prosthetics on to stand tall to protect us both, not going to face the danger dragging myself backwards on my stumps.

Indeed. Does anyone know if charged with premeditated murder and found not guilty, can he then be found guilty of culpable homicide?

He says he shouted words to the effect 'Get Out of my house' so was he inviting them to come out of the bathroom and face him while he was on the floor? He has already stated he feels vulnerable without his legs. now he was ready to compound the problem!

More than likely he was screaming at Reeva to get out of his house, and she was ignoring him from the toilet. He doesn`t like being ignored and it drives him mental. He wants her out of the house but she won`t play ball. (he has previous for kicking a girl out of his house and hurting her leg. This led to an GBH charge, downgraded to assault and then dropped)...

She was probably playing psychological games with his masculinity and pressing all the right buttons.

imo he's gonna walk

smart lawyers, loadsa money, public sympathy etc


probably write a best selling book later with film rights

Will the actor who plays the lead role in the film be up for an Oscar?

Will play himself imo and he will swap the blanks with real bullets and kill the actress. It would just keep happening as he keeps on playing himself.

There's no way he's innocent imo.

One thing that puzzles me in cases such as this, do the lawyers know the truth and, if they do, how can they live with their consciences or do they build their defence based on the version of events given to them by their client?

"Defense lawyers living with their conscience" well a top QC  will earn over £1500 an hour,I suspect they live quite well with their " conscience "

Angel Gabrial 26 Feb 13 22:10 
The prosecution have been saying from the start that the shots were fired from a standing height downwards, so it will be interesting.





the prosecution also said they had witnesses who heard rows and saw the lights on..........which then turned out to be someone in a house about half a mile away

I speak English well
I learnt it from a book

Biscuit


House was originally stated as being 600 yards away, then was changed to 300 yards away.I'm sure even on a private /gated estate, houses are closer than this ?

Yet another twist in this story, some claims in the papers today that she was pregnant, "It is believed Reeva Steenkamp told Oscar Pistorius she was pregnant on the night of her killing."  Maybe something to do with that which made him flip (?)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2285099/Oscar-Pistorius-case-Reeva-Steenkamp-NOT-pregnant-say-models-family.html

Story originated from that bastion of truthful reporting, The National Enquirer, and was picked up by the Daily Mail. Say no more.

^ That is the press for you in this country, they print a story in headlines taken from the National Enquirer as if it is true.  It was also the headline story in the Daily Star this morning.  And the original bit from the NE, 'Police believe the preg­nancy secret she revealed is what sent Pistorius over the edge and left her dead, with bullet wounds to the head, chest, pelvis and hand.'

He done for her

END OF THREAD

Interesting article

:::
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/02/if_oscar_pistorius_is_telling_the_truth_about_reeva_steenkamp_he_s_a_dangerous.single.html

I'd pay good money to see him run 400 metres with his stumpy legs only

surprised some of the stuff that is getting in the papers - considering this is a pending murder trial and he is out on bail.

Also the stuff about the cricket bat is nonsense. In the trial it stated her only injuries were the result of the gunshots. Yet Dailymail put the story about her head being bashed by a cricket bat at the top of their website.

STEPTOES YARD - just been reading that link, interesting stuff, just don't believe he's inncoent.  But wouldn't rule out another O.J.Simpson ending.

From that article - "If you come back into the bedroom and hear noise from the bathroom, the simplest explanation is that she’s in there. And if you aren’t sure—and you’re scared—the first thing you’d do is whisper to her or reach for the bed to see whether she’s in it.

What you wouldn’t do, having failed to hear her voice from the bedroom, is start shooting through the toilet door. Roux suggests Pistorius didn’t know the door was locked. That means he didn’t try to open it. Yet, for all his jitters, he aimed with impressive accuracy. In a stall that measured 17 square feet, he put one of his four bullets in Steenkamp’s hip, another in her arm, and a third above her ear. Either he guessed correctly that his quarry was sitting on the toilet—which would be odd for a burglar—or he guessed, in the dark, where in the stall his quarry was hiding.

At this point, apparently, Pistorius started to think rationally. Steenkamp still “did not respond” to his shouts, he recalls. Though the bedroom was still pitch black, “When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet.”

Everything Pistorius pretends he couldn’t have done to spare Steenkamp’s life—deduce her trip to the bathroom, notice her silence, reach for her in the dark—was possible now that she lay dying.

Very good article.

Substance found in bedroom is testis compositum which aids muscle recovery

there go his medals

You would also think that at some point the person he is shooting at might scream when they were hit? Surely he can tell the difference between a man and woman screaming in pain?

Not if it was the first shot that hit her in the head.

Now wants his bail conditions relaxed so he has option of going abroad

surely wont be allowed

Amazing how all the stories about him having to sell assets to pay for legal fees appear in the media when word gets out the Steenkamp family are considering a civil action against him...Poor Oscar

latest: "Lawyers for Oscar Pistorius have filed an appeal in a South African court against bail restrictions imposed on the Olympian.

The lawyers argue that evidence showed that the double-amputee athlete is not a flight risk and should have the option of travelling outside South Africa as long as he has official permission"

so many twists and turns in this, but surely they can't allow him to leave the country........

There's a programme on BBC 3 tonight at 9-00 "Pistorius: What Really Happened ?"

seems to be lot more people now coming forward saying werent really shocked when heard about incident on 14th feb

IMO, he's a massive ego trying to slither out of the crime he committed. He thinks he deserves the chance to carry on. If he's truly suicidal it's more likely the thought of jail rather than snuffing out his bird.

Not much chance of him 'legging it' though is there. scoff.

show on about case at 9pm on bbc3

Might be worth a watch

No chance he should be allowed to leave the country. South Africa's network of bilateral extradition agreements is not exactly extensive.

interesting bit on the door again

it was a glass door?

... and he fancied some stained glass?

The ex boyfriend meeting gives substance to a potential motive, wonder if the texts messages offer any more insight into that

erse2

moron

programme didn't really tell us anything

yep, was big let down, was hoping for more from it

she was banging her ex

he didnt like it so shot her?

that theory has legs...

watching show now. looks guilty to me

programme was a padded out hour without telling much new, I didn't know the girl had met with her ex-lover who she had been with for 5 years and never lost touch, this was shortly before she was killed and Pistorius kept phoning her as they chatted, although that was the only thing new about this case, could be the most significant thing about the killing.  So many holes in his story. And now he wants to change bail conditions so he can travel abroad........

thought the interviews with her best friend were very touching.

Now given passport back. Couldnt make South African legal system up.

^ only one word, Unbelievable !!!!

Oscar Pistorius could compete abroad after winning an appeal to relax his bail conditons.

Lawyers for the South African athlete, who is charged with murdering his girlfriend, successfully challenged bail restrictions relating to international travel at a court hearing on Thursday.

Pistorius was released on bail by magistrate Desmond Nair last month subject to several conditions, including that he handed over his passports and paid a £73,000 bond.

But he has now been cleared to leave the country, providing he notifies authorities of his travel plans in advance and surrenders his passport to the court within 24 hours of his return.

Judge Bert Bam told the High Court in Pretoria: "I find that the magistrate's decision not to grant the appellant his passport to travel abroad was wrong".

Pistorius, who was not present on Thursday, was also cleared to return to his Pretoria home where he shot dead Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine's Day.

he should go to philly USA--gun shot deaths every day

Carl Pistorius is facing a culpable homicide charge after an accident in 2008 that led to the death of a 36-year-old woman.


What a great family !!!

Even if you believe his (frankly implausible) version of events, he's still killed someone in cold blood. He shouldn't be free, let alone free to leave the country.

true
but the way things are going I am far from convinced he will be convicted
and even if he is...will he be sent to prison......?
S.Africa seems to have a somewhat ambivalent approach to law enforcement

He seems to have an incredible mind...he gives every impression of  genuine innocence in court
Do S.Africa really want to convict him?

I suppose he would have to go to prison if convicted
but he would have a specially adapted(luxury) cell..and may even be allowed out to train and compete in competitions...

to be fair...he is too conspicous to do a runner wherever he is

Hope Britain doesnt allow him in this country

In a weird sort of perverted way it seems wrong that he cold-bloodedly killed someone he thought he didn't know and can be set free to roam the world. At least if he had killed Reeva as a crime of passion I could almost buy the line that he won't kill again but if he's lost the plot once in respect of someone he thought he didn't know I wouldn't want him wandering free around my part of the world in case he lost it again. Personally I think his version of what happened that night is very suspect but increasingly I wonder if he'll end up getting off the charge made against him. Just a feeling I get from what's happened so far.

I agree. I keep asking, but nobody seems to know, if he's charged with pre-meditated murder, and they find it unproven, can he still go down for a lesser charge.

Perhaps in S.Africa you are entitled to shoot an intruder on your property without warning?
So he feel he has done nothing wrong. Although it does seem like cold blooded murder to me as well.
Although he behaves and seems to believe he is innocent.... he could well be an extreme psychopath?
His para olympic success, suggest a totally driven man?
As others I have a feeling he may get off.......

no doubt they had massive row, jealous like mad of her previous boyfriend that shed seen the previous afternoon , massive row and he lost it. i was intensly jealous of my ex girlfriend years ago and its not a nice feeling ,  i was in rage on occassions  , its a horrible turmoil and very uncontrolable , imo he shot her  in his rage , but whats horrible about this man he seems more interested in getting his bail lifted than any regrets or sorrow over the killing ,accident or not.

^
agreed. He's absolute scum

So South Africa have cops still working facing murder charges and invite murder suspects to go off on a round the world cruise, as long as they are awfully good and come back for trial.

...and you have to agree with many of the above posters that trial acquittal, sadly seems a fair bet, for oscar pisstakeros.