Steve Collins v Lenny McClean

Surely lenny didnt weigh twice as much as collins?  Is this bare knuckle or with gloves?

good question, let's say with gloves for starters.

Lenny weighed 20 stone, so about 7 stone heavier.

Gadzooks kenny, I'd remotrgage my granny and put it on @ 1.25 on The Guvnor, he would have tore Collins a new hole.

That would be the bet of the century.

McLean, who in his prime was six feet two inches (188 cm) tall and weighed over twenty stone (127 kg), boasted that he could beat anybody, in either a legitimate match or in an unlicensed match with or without gloves, and reputedly sent out challenges to many of the famous boxers of the day, including Muhammed Ali and Mr. T, though neither contest materialised.

should have read 1/14 Slippy. Keyboard sticking. Is that value?

It is like the human v cheetah all over again.  Everyone so certain about it.  Surely collins wouldve been very quick and fit.  Thought unlicensed bare knuckle fights were all over in minutes, how would mclean cope under queensbury rules once you got past the second round?

Lenny mclean called out ali and Mr T?  Fk me he must be sh1t hot then because boxers are normally such shy retiring characters, if one ever came out with such bold claims as that then they must surely be the real deal.

He'd have been dq'd in the first for below the belt, biting, butting, elbowing and kicking!

He never lost in 3000 fights apparently. I think he would have been too much for Mike.

Steve Collins no danger,.

You didn't say Queensbury rules..

Steve Collins

I seem to remember that Roy Shaw said he would lose to any fringe world class fighter, but he would be talking of the same weight, that's why I went for a big weight/size difference.

We have a difference of opinion here, so not such a dumb question.

I'm taking

I'm talking about Queensbury rules here.

Big Charlie would know. RIP

Big charlie would just speak with great authority, not the same as "knowing"

True.

Well Queensbury rules puts a different slant on things which you didn't say in the OP.
I just assumed it was a no hold tear up.
In a boxing match with no biting, gouging, kicking in the goolies etc Collins would win.

I said in a boxing match Slippy, not a street brawl.

McLean v Shaw for a few pointers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtRnhayJFmI&feature=related

Maclean may not have been blessed with boxing skill, but he could certainly punch. If you get hit by a jab from somebody weighing 20 stones, no matter how big you are yourself, it hurts. If you get hit full force flush on the chin, you are going down. If you manage to get get up but go down down again, stay there.

Maclean, for me, Queensbury rules or otherwise.

Think ive seen that before kenny, but just watched it again.  Shaw didnt exactly look like a figure of fitness.  They were wearing gloves, but were they full weight?

Haven't the foggiest rob, but I think Squeeze has it right.

I'm not so sure Glimma, Queensbury rules, Collins fitness and stamina would see him home. Remember he was a bit of a warrior himself. He broke Eubank in those epic encounters and Eubank was no pushover in his pomp.
To say the very least.

Theres no great precedence for people fightiing another person who is miles bigger except within the heavyweight division.  Haye v valuev a case in point, loved that fight but having just seen mclean, think he was a lot quicker than valuev who lost.

Is Glimma back?

He is long gone, would surely have posted by now.

Collins was gusty and super fit, but no way would he have beaten a pre-Watson Eubank, no way.

gutsy, even!

just looking at Slippy's 12-05 rob.

Slippy is mistaken.  Like i say there is absolutely no chance glimma will return.

You don't know that unless perhaps he's been in touch with you.

He's always returned very quickly. Probably having a breather.

Well he wouldve posted by now.  Unless he has disguised himself with some gay pseudonym

Lenny Mclean lost quite a few times, his book is a work of fiction

He was allegedly twice knocked out by Johnny "Big Bad" Waldron during the early days of his boxing career, both times in the first round. He was also knocked out in the first round by Cliff Field (neither knockout loss is mentioned in his autobiography) and beaten on points by Kevin Paddock

Cliff Fields done Lenny twice. Roy Shaw said Cliff was the hardest around

how you doing shane mate? You've had a very bad year.

Do people on this thread have any genuine inside info?  Were they at these underground fights or are they just quoting what theyve searched on wikipedia?

I was at all 3000

my inside info is one was pro at top of the world game in the modern era, never knocked out, the other guy was overweight in his prime, knocked out numerous times,  reached the dizzy the heights of London pub scene.

One retired to a farm, the other made a living telling people how hard he was, can you tell which is which?

his name was useful for the smooth progress of various criminal dealings, and to warn off members of the Provisional Irish Republican Army and the Mafia

does anyone believe this sh1te?

One of them is definitely mr winkle brendan.

Neither. It would have been a draw

Under Queensbury rules my money would be on a Collins win, or a Maclean disqualification.

Hello kenny, bad year? why mate?

brendan just about sums it up correctly above.

your mum shane. can't have been easy.

Kenny - not sure who would win but if you're pricing Lenny at 1/14, I'm backing Steve

Yes, tough time kenny. Looks like the ol fella is moving away now.

You can`t believe alot of the books written about these fellas, take half with a pinch of salt. Well known for romancing.

I used to work with a bare knuckle bloke 80`s & 90`s and he always said Bartley Gorman was one of the best ever.

All together now ...

Uptown got its hustlers
The bowery got its bums
42nd Street got Big Jim Walker
He's a pool-shootin' son of a gun
Yeah, he big and dumb as a man can come
But he stronger than a country hoss
And when the bad folks all get together at night
You know they all call big Jim "Boss", just because
And they say

You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim

Well outta south Alabama came a country boy
He say I'm lookin' for a man named Jim
I am a pool-shootin' boy
My name Willie McCoy
But down home they call me Slim
Yeah I'm lookin' for the king of 42nd Street
He drivin' a drop top Cadillac
Last week he took all my money
And it may sound funny
But I come to get my money back
And everybody say Jack don't you know

And you don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim

Well a hush fell over the pool room
Jimmy come boppin' in off the street
And when the cuttin' were done
The only part that wasn't bloody
Was the soles of the big man's feet
Yeah he were cut in in bout a hundred places
And he were shot in a couple more
And you better believe
They sung a different kind of story
When big Jim hit the floor now they say

You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Slim

Yeah, big Jim got his hat
Find out where it's at
And it's not hustlin' people strange to you
Even if you do got a two-piece custom-made pool cue

Yeah you don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Slim

Lenny would have been psyched out by Collins' hypnotist.

People are underestimating a professional and world class boxers speed.

This fat oaf would have been throwing punches willy nilly whilst Collins would be laughing in his face and moving away from his fists.

Speed is almost everything here. Sometimes a person can almost be too big to make a good fighter ( see Valuev ). They cant throw punches cause it takes too much effort.

Collins would be a full bank job here.

I remember exhibitions with Herol Bomber Graham in Sheffield, no one ever managed to land a punch, just too quick.

Exactly.

If i remember correctly he visited Doncaster prison for an exhibition, they tied his hands behind his back and invited all the villains in the nick to take a few swings.

In the 80`s, they couldn`t land one

Frank Warren promoted many of these unlicensed fights in the 70's and he said McClean was only a moderate fighter, the myths of him never being beaten are just that myths. Now Bartley was a different case he never lost a fight and was the bareknuckle champion of GB and Ireland, the wife's cousin was making a film about him but I think they encountered some legal problems and I think it has been shelved for now.

You mean Shane Meadows

no

Paddy Consadine (sic)

yes

LADINE!!!!!!!

Touch it

So fecking funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVe3qH45-Jk

Shane Meadows was looking at making a film about Bartley Gorman, would have been interesting. In his prime he was known throughout the land.

he made a short early in his career

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB0_QEh-KVs

Paddy had a bit of a break as he set up this group and decided to start playing gigs locally. He is apparently working on another boxing film about the promoter Fat Rick Parker, not sure if you will see him acting again as he wanted to do more on the writing and directing side. Shame about the bartley film because he was going to play the lead role and he had been going to the gym and bulking up a bit.

Not too much of a loss really if he gives up acting. I thought he peaked with a room for romeo brass.

Oct 27, 2012 -- 1:37PM, brendanuk1 wrote:

he made a short early in his careerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB0_QEh-KVs

Handy on the heavy bag

Sounds like Tyson Fury too, he mentioned the Fury's

McLean beat Roy Shaw twice.

Shaw beat Ron Stander a former world heavywight conteder.

Stander fought Joe Frazier for the World Heavyweight Crown.

Very measured and softly spoken, for such savage profession

heres some american pro who i never heard of fighting "uk bare knuckle champion"

Smokin Bert Cooper -vs- Joe Savage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF79w3ASXS4

Doesnt last long :(

Was he reallynuk bare knuckle champion?

I think a lot of Lenny's story is very much fabricated.  Obviously he was a big, hard fecker but it's quite disrespectful to professional boxers to claim he'd beat them easily.  A few years ago there was a modern Lenny in the shape of a guy called Kimbo Slice.  A few videos of him in bareknuckle, back  yard brawls knocking equally big fecker's out cold.  He became a cult internet hero, so much so that he was eventually up against pros in a professional setting.  He got battered by a guy half his size and the myth was shattered in seconds.  If Lenny had come up against a pro in a similar setting I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd got the same treatment.

Kimbo Slice was a superb street fighter; took on anybody for $5,000.  And, to his credit, he always fought very fairly despite the circumstances. 

GC is correct though, of course, he did lose in the ring to pro boxers but he was no pushover even then.

I cant find anything on Kimbo Slice losing a pro boxing match,  he seems to be fighting bums and is 6 - 0 at the moment Some of his boxing fights are shockingly bad though

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/10/9/3480976/video-kimbo-slice-vs-howard-jones-boxing-match

I've not liked reading some of the comments about The Guv'nor here.

Kimbo got sparked easily in the ufc and collins would of killed lenny in the ring

Kimbo Slice went from street fighting to MMA , massively hyped , his 1st fight (not at UFC level) they brought in a karate guy who had a moderate MMA record . Think the fight lasted 9 seconds (Kimbo lost)

As said Frank Warren was his nephew i think, said Lenny 'had about 12 proper fights,lost half of them' .

lol at Rob Dylan's posts btw

Mclean couldn't have boxed otherwise he would have got in the ring and made himself some money. Collins was a top professional boxer. McLean wouldn't have laid a glove on him in the ring. Collins would have boxed his head off.

However, in a bar brawl, in a confined space with no room, Mclean would have been a cert

Emden
28 Oct 12 20:20
Joined:
07 Jan 08
| Topic/replies: 1,924 | Blogger: Emden's blog
Mclean couldn't have boxed otherwise he would have got in the ring and made himself some money. Collins was a top professional boxer. McLean wouldn't have laid a glove on him in the ring. Collins would have boxed his head off.

However, in a bar brawl, in a confined space with no room, Mclean would have been a cert


McLean couldn't get a pro boxing licence because of his background.

He was an unlicensed boxer and was beaten but claims to have never lost a bare knuckle fight "on the cobbles" which were presumably "anything goes" contests.

Everyday fighting guys challenging boxers didn't go down too well for this fella

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MJkJTsTkKI

good thread

nice to see Slippy back.

SlippyBlue
SlippyBlue 27 Oct 12 00:05 Joined: 11 Jun 12 | Topic/replies: 14,544 | Blogger: SlippyBlue's blog
I'm not so sure Glimma, Queensbury rules, Collins fitness and stamina would see him home. Remember he was a bit of a warrior himself. He broke Eubank in those epic encounters and Eubank was no pushover in his pomp.
To say the very least.
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rob_dylan
rob_dylan 27 Oct 12 00:07 Joined: 26 Nov 11 | Topic/replies: 11,417 | Blogger: rob_dylan's blog
Theres no great precedence for people fightiing another person who is miles bigger except within the heavyweight division.  Haye v valuev a case in point, loved that fight but having just seen mclean, think he was a lot quicker than valuev who lost.
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kenny mann
kenny mann 27 Oct 12 00:09 Joined: 29 Apr 10 | Topic/replies: 24,971 | Blogger: kenny mann's blog
Is Glimma back?
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rob_dylan
rob_dylan 27 Oct 12 00:16 Joined: 26 Nov 11 | Topic/replies: 11,417 | Blogger: rob_dylan's blog
He is long gone, would surely have posted by now.
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Slippy was very shrewd.