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13 Jan 10
22:07
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Date Joined:
16 Nov 08
needs to 'draw a line under it' imo
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Leaving their children as they did, was appalling. I have sympathy with any criminal who repents of their crime, but I object to the way they are treated as poor blameless lambs by the media. A good analogy would be a parent who killed their child by driving a car whilst p*ssed, and crashing.
have they ever said why they refused to pay for a babysitter?
I guess the £20 or so for the evening was just to much for a starpped for cash couple of doctors.
I guess the £20 or so for the evening was just to much for a starpped for cash couple of doctors.
They acted irresponsibly and have milked the publicity at every turn since. Doesn't matter if they were on the lash or in Starbucks imo.
You understand the allegations correct? And why they were made?
if they had come from Liverpool, Manchester etc and worked in a call centre or something along those lines - they would have been hung out to dry/slaoghtered by the tabloid press within weeks
something not right with whole case though
something not right with whole case though
sibaroni 14 Jan 11:02
Leaving their children as they did, was appalling. I have sympathy with any criminal who repents of their crime, but I object to the way they are treated as poor blameless lambs by the media. A good analogy would be a parent who killed their child by driving a car whilst p*ssed, and crashing.
don't be ridiculous
Leaving their children as they did, was appalling. I have sympathy with any criminal who repents of their crime, but I object to the way they are treated as poor blameless lambs by the media. A good analogy would be a parent who killed their child by driving a car whilst p*ssed, and crashing.
don't be ridiculous
Have you seen the footage the day after the event?..
I honestly have no clue either way as to what happened to the poor girl. However I am surprised at the level of outrage at the press they are generating. Lets assume that they are 100% innocent (aside from the negligence) then I would be doing the same. You cant criticise a coupel for using all the resources available to them, look at the publicity it generates. Who now doesnt know Maddy's face? I mean there are several threads a week on it, ven on a gambling site. I applaud their efforts (again assuming they r not to blame)
facts
have you made an error of judgement in leaving your kids at home while at 'having a few drinks and food'?
have you made an error of judgement in leaving your kids at home while at 'having a few drinks and food'?
So, 'negligence' aside they've done a cracking job of raising their kids.
i remember when they came back to England about 4 days after she disappeared,there were loads of flowers and teddy bears left outside their house.
she was crying her eyes out yet he did not show 1 single shred of emotion,if that was me i would have been crying my eyes out too i thought even back then that something was not right about the whole thing
she was crying her eyes out yet he did not show 1 single shred of emotion,if that was me i would have been crying my eyes out too i thought even back then that something was not right about the whole thing
spyker 14 Jan 10:54
how is going to a restaurant with friends 'out on the lash'?
LMAO
Yes leaving one's kids home alone (when there is a perfectly good baby minding service) is much more acceptable when one is enjoying food and wine with one's friends (again).
i made no comment on leaving their kids
i simply asked how going to a restaurant with friends is 'out on the lash'
doing either is very bad, altho going out on the lash is worst as you'll be drunk on returning
but that wasn't the point
how is going to a restaurant with friends 'out on the lash'?
LMAO
Yes leaving one's kids home alone (when there is a perfectly good baby minding service) is much more acceptable when one is enjoying food and wine with one's friends (again).
i made no comment on leaving their kids
i simply asked how going to a restaurant with friends is 'out on the lash'
doing either is very bad, altho going out on the lash is worst as you'll be drunk on returning
but that wasn't the point
i've seen plenty of blokes not cry in bad situations like death
absolutely nothing odd about it
shock can hit too
absolutely nothing odd about it
shock can hit too
do you not realise that restaraunts sell drink as well as food canaryboy?
and what about the mother who spoke with such dignity on tv straight after her son was murdered
didn't see her cry once
didn't see her cry once
supermarkets sell drink too
i suppose if you say you're going there it must mean you're getting the beers in
LOL
i suppose if you say you're going there it must mean you're getting the beers in
LOL
anyway, is there any evidence they'd been 'out on the lash' when reporting their child missing?
like being off their faces perhaps
like being off their faces perhaps
would you leave your kids at home while going to the supermarket?
Yeah im not saying they are not to blame sj, what I am saying is that they are trying to do everything they can to make ammends. Its not enough, and it never could be, I think their behaviour was outrageous in leaving the kids, unforgivable, but that doesnt mean they should be lynched for generating all the publicity, which is the only hope they have.
canary
probably wrong use of word by me,but they were drinking that night while they left their kids at home alone,lest no forget about the other two tiny tots as well.
probably wrong use of word by me,but they were drinking that night while they left their kids at home alone,lest no forget about the other two tiny tots as well.
it's wrong to leave young kids alone any time
which has nothing to do with going to a restaurant being 'out on the lash'
if they didn't have kids would people still say they were 'out on the lash'
which has nothing to do with going to a restaurant being 'out on the lash'
if they didn't have kids would people still say they were 'out on the lash'
rafa
as people have pointed out,what do you think the media would have been like if it was a single mother(chav) for want of a better word,had left three kids under 4 home alone while she was out dining at the local indian?
as people have pointed out,what do you think the media would have been like if it was a single mother(chav) for want of a better word,had left three kids under 4 home alone while she was out dining at the local indian?
yeah they're bad parents obviously
but for leaving their kids alone
plenty of parents have a few drinks in the company of their children be it at home or out for a meal
doesn't turn them into ****** up thugs
but for leaving their kids alone
plenty of parents have a few drinks in the company of their children be it at home or out for a meal
doesn't turn them into ****** up thugs
would be amazed if parents on here hadn't had a few drink after they'd put their kids to bed too
canary
i said it was the wrong use of words,but they were still drinking how do we know how much they would have drunk that night?
i said it was the wrong use of words,but they were still drinking how do we know how much they would have drunk that night?
Facts, it is a perfectly foo analogy. I said it a couple of days ago, I will say it again. Two things.
First. When My son was two, I stayed in the same resort. His mum and I went out one night in the week. We went to reception, exactly the same reception the McCanns would have gone to, and asked if they had baby sitters. They did. They had a recommended list of people they had vetted.
We were introduced before we hired her, to a middle aged mother. She came and sat for him once we was asleep, it cost around £20.
The McCanns had that option.
Second. I am divorced not and see my son about the half the time. Imagine the following.
When my lad was three, I got him for an overnight stay. I wait for him to go to sleep, and go to the pub which is around 100 yards away. I go back to check him every half an hour say, but carry on all night until I am leathered.
If the courts or his mother found out, I would never be able to have him again and would have no cause for complaint. If he had been taken, I would almost certainly go to prison, rightly.
These two are no different.
First. When My son was two, I stayed in the same resort. His mum and I went out one night in the week. We went to reception, exactly the same reception the McCanns would have gone to, and asked if they had baby sitters. They did. They had a recommended list of people they had vetted.
We were introduced before we hired her, to a middle aged mother. She came and sat for him once we was asleep, it cost around £20.
The McCanns had that option.
Second. I am divorced not and see my son about the half the time. Imagine the following.
When my lad was three, I got him for an overnight stay. I wait for him to go to sleep, and go to the pub which is around 100 yards away. I go back to check him every half an hour say, but carry on all night until I am leathered.
If the courts or his mother found out, I would never be able to have him again and would have no cause for complaint. If he had been taken, I would almost certainly go to prison, rightly.
These two are no different.
well given there are no reports of them being smashed, i'd say they didn't drink irresponsibly
give me some info of them tearing up the restaurant and i might change that view
give me some info of them tearing up the restaurant and i might change that view
THe amount they drunk sj, is a matter of public record from the bar bill. I can't remember the precise amount of wine, but it was a proper skinful even by chit chat standards.
yeah they are different because you got leathered
tho that's the only difference
tho that's the only difference
canary, if they were sober as judges, what difference would it make. They weren't where they were supposed to be, or hadn't a baby sitter.
Yeah thats true sj, however that still doesnt mean the Mcanns should be Lynched, People tend to forget that the priority here for everyone should be to find Maddy. Regrettably I doubt very much this will happen. However what slim hope remains is directly related to the publicity generated imo. At the end of the day we know the media has only one agenda.
To summarise. The Mcanns acted shockingly and deserve scorn for that. They are paying the ultimate price and nothing anyone says about them can possibly harm them any further. What slim hope there is remains alive as long as we talk about the, so lets keep doing that.
Hopefully this will mean that people tempted to leave their kids in similar circumstances will not do so.
To summarise. The Mcanns acted shockingly and deserve scorn for that. They are paying the ultimate price and nothing anyone says about them can possibly harm them any further. What slim hope there is remains alive as long as we talk about the, so lets keep doing that.
Hopefully this will mean that people tempted to leave their kids in similar circumstances will not do so.
tho your home is probably more secure than a resort apartment too
sibaroni 14 Jan 11:32
canary, if they were sober as judges, what difference would it make.
so why are people making an issue of them being on the lash?
canary, if they were sober as judges, what difference would it make.
so why are people making an issue of them being on the lash?
Sib,
your two 'things' are perfectly correct.
But your previous statement likened it to driving a car with kids in it whilst drunk and killing them as a result.
That analogy is not comparable imo
your two 'things' are perfectly correct.
But your previous statement likened it to driving a car with kids in it whilst drunk and killing them as a result.
That analogy is not comparable imo
It makes it worse, because they were less able to deal with any problems that might arise. Sure, having a drink whilst in loco parentis, is hardly unique, and something most of us have done. It is abandoning the kids whilst doing so thats the problem.
They left their kids alone in a holiday apartment ffs, its been alleged that poor Madeline was dead before they left. If the chief of police alleges that, then it should, as painful as it is, be fully looked into. A few tests would unearth the truth.
Facts, I think it is rather good and stand by it. They have lost their child through their own behaviour, which was at least grossly negligent. I would feel sorry for parents in either situation, I would believe their remorse, but I would have no doubt who was to blame and wouldn't expect the media to be that sympathetic.
It doesn't matter if they had half a spritzer each or ten pints. They left their kids alone. End of.
They left their kids alone in a holiday apartment ffs, its been alleged that poor Madeline was dead before they left. If the chief of police alleges that, then it should, as painful as it is, be fully looked into. A few tests would unearth the truth.
Canary - they were. I will look, but I recommend you do to, for the details of the bar bill. There was a lot of wine drunk, and I am no prude about drinking.
drink driving is a terrible analogy anyway
because you cause a crash
you don't make someone abduct your kid
because you cause a crash
you don't make someone abduct your kid
canaryboy nobody is making any big deal about whether or not they were sober
people are making a big deal about the fact they went out for a drink.
going out for a drink and getting drunk are 2 different things but you are trying to make make it sound like they are the same
people are making a big deal about the fact they went out for a drink.
going out for a drink and getting drunk are 2 different things but you are trying to make make it sound like they are the same
You take a risk you get away with 99 time out of 100. And its not your lucky day. Both very similar.
if you don't lock the door and are burgled it's hardly your fault you were robbed either
it all depends how drunk you are doesn't it
drink driving doesn't really require a 3rd party
it's all down to you
drink driving doesn't really require a 3rd party
it's all down to you
thanks easter,i wish i never used the term on the lash,as said imo leaving your children alone is a no no
No need for analogies to drink-driving, burglary or anything else. Doesn't matter if they were on Evian all night at the restaurant either.
if you don't lock the door and are burgled it's hardly your fault you were robbed either
yes it is. but obviously every one is responsible for their own actions so to that end then nobody is repsonsible for anything that happens to them?
yes it is. but obviously every one is responsible for their own actions so to that end then nobody is repsonsible for anything that happens to them?
canary - if you ever have children, you will obviously leave them to fend for themselves as you feel so strongly about it.
In which case, I would have the snip now if I was you.
In which case, I would have the snip now if I was you.
why would i let them fend for themselves when i've already said leaving them alone is wrong?
better go to specsavers son
better go to specsavers son
I wonder how many people go out into the garden and have a drink in the summer after they have put their kids to bed.
canaryboy 14 Jan 11:28
yeah they're bad parents obviously
but for leaving their kids alone
specsavers
book now please
yeah they're bad parents obviously
but for leaving their kids alone
specsavers
book now please
No analogy is perfect, you get the point I am making. I don't understand the media treatment of the couple as some sort of saints.
What really irks me though is the true media angle. Madelaine was a pretty girl. They used to use any excuse to get a picture of Diana on the front page of a newspaper, because research showed, it sold more papers. We are drawn to attractive people.
I have no doubt Maddie pictures have the same effect, which is why papers are so keen to get the photoes of her on the front page and let this story run and run. Thousands of children go missing, very sadly, across Europe, and many in Britain. This story shoudl now have gone away, barring a miracle return.
What really irks me though is the true media angle. Madelaine was a pretty girl. They used to use any excuse to get a picture of Diana on the front page of a newspaper, because research showed, it sold more papers. We are drawn to attractive people.
I have no doubt Maddie pictures have the same effect, which is why papers are so keen to get the photoes of her on the front page and let this story run and run. Thousands of children go missing, very sadly, across Europe, and many in Britain. This story shoudl now have gone away, barring a miracle return.
I can't believe you're rehearsing this horse** yet again, with our boys battling it out in Jo'burg.
As reluctant as I am to offer a contrary view to HOC, I doubt you would be gaoled and, while my knowledge of family law is restricted to a couple of favours before CSA Tribunals, I would humbly submit that an absolute ban in perpetuity would be similarly unlikely.
As reluctant as I am to offer a contrary view to HOC, I doubt you would be gaoled and, while my knowledge of family law is restricted to a couple of favours before CSA Tribunals, I would humbly submit that an absolute ban in perpetuity would be similarly unlikely.
Spot on sib. I wasn't saying your analogy was inappropriate either, btw, just unnecessary.
and people keep talking about it
everyone is to blame
everyone is to blame
We all take risks. If poor Maddy was abducted then I feel their pain, what are the chances of someone abducting a kid? Less so than the alleged alternative. :(
orioles, I know f. all about family law, but I know from experience of others and myself, I would be f*cked. I would certainly be given a particrlalry torris time for a long period of time.
And prison if abandoned whilst down the pub? I fancy I might have to.
Bell is in a position to rid all the doubters here, have you any idea if the wicket is part of the story?
And prison if abandoned whilst down the pub? I fancy I might have to.
Bell is in a position to rid all the doubters here, have you any idea if the wicket is part of the story?
canaryboy 14 Jan 10:39
how is going to a restaurant with friends 'out on the lash'?
LMAO
was there drinks served yes there feckking was
when i was aborad etc my boy was asleep in his pram next to me
not feckking 200 yards away on his jack jones
how is going to a restaurant with friends 'out on the lash'?
LMAO
was there drinks served yes there feckking was
when i was aborad etc my boy was asleep in his pram next to me
not feckking 200 yards away on his jack jones
I bow to your knowledge, Sib. Truth be told, I avoided family like Boycott and a quick single to get him off strike for the next over.
Lots of rain recently in Jo'burg, wicket has an odd striped look with a bit of juice and pace. We won the toss though and decided to bat and have left Onions out!
I suppose the stats bear out the decision to have a knock, but I'm bewildered by the omission of the Durham boy.
Strauss got a golden duck, 1st England captain since the '30s to be out first ball of a Test - which seems odd.
Lots of rain recently in Jo'burg, wicket has an odd striped look with a bit of juice and pace. We won the toss though and decided to bat and have left Onions out!
I suppose the stats bear out the decision to have a knock, but I'm bewildered by the omission of the Durham boy.
Strauss got a golden duck, 1st England captain since the '30s to be out first ball of a Test - which seems odd.
The golden duck bit hard to believe. And without Onions batting, we are plainly doomed.
I had to get the family books out for the first time in 15 years this week. Guy dies intestate after a decree nisi, but before a decree absolute.
Wife gets, it seems.
I had to get the family books out for the first time in 15 years this week. Guy dies intestate after a decree nisi, but before a decree absolute.
Wife gets, it seems.
No, we are the children of the first mariage. Very far from being gruntled.
Onions was warming up with a face like thunder. It's seaming about and swinging, so maybe Sidebottom can make hay, but it seems very harsh.
'Fresh legs' was the lame excuse.
I'll get me white coat, panama and six mini Watney's red barrels. PLAY.
'Fresh legs' was the lame excuse.
I'll get me white coat, panama and six mini Watney's red barrels. PLAY.
the problem with killing your own child and covering it up as a kidnapping is when do you stop the facade of try to find her.
thats what the mccanns must decide allegedly
thats what the mccanns must decide allegedly
the word 'allegedly' saved that from being an outrageous post then!
I think that the whole situation is unbelievably tragic. But a lot of things about the case are rather unbelievable as well.
It is unforgivable that they left the children and this is what the whole thing hinges on. Whether they killed her, she died accidentaly or was abducted, IF they had been there (or had a responsible person in loco parentis) then the disapearence could not have happened. If they have killed her then they have made a fatal (!) mistake by going out and leaving the other children as that alone raises questions. If they have administered some sort of sedative to the children (and that of their friends who also left their chldren alone whilst they were at the restaurant) and Maddy died of natural causes under it then they are in the wrong for giving that sedative to enable them to go out. This would have been found out on a post mortem and would have undoubtedly led to legal action not just for them but for their friends as well, not to mention the almost certain end of his Doctors job. If they have sedated her on more than one occasion and this has been noticed by a paedo then his task would have been made easier by having a comatose child to carry rather than a crying, screaming one that would attract attention.
Rememeber that they are Catholics and if they gave a confession to a Priest he would not break his vow of silence and would never tell anyone. They have asked for and recieved a private audience with the Pope, he too would not tell anyone but could offer them some form of absolution in Gods eyes to help with their feelings of guilt.
I do think that whatever the circumstances it was a terrible accident and one that the McCanns will live with forever. I do go along with yorkys point that in some ways it would be 'better' for Madeline if she died at the apartment from the sedative rather than after horrfic abuse from a gang of paedos.
This case reminds me of the case in Australia in the 70's where the baby was 'taken by Dingos' and that was never solved in any satisfactory manner.
It is unforgivable that they left the children and this is what the whole thing hinges on. Whether they killed her, she died accidentaly or was abducted, IF they had been there (or had a responsible person in loco parentis) then the disapearence could not have happened. If they have killed her then they have made a fatal (!) mistake by going out and leaving the other children as that alone raises questions. If they have administered some sort of sedative to the children (and that of their friends who also left their chldren alone whilst they were at the restaurant) and Maddy died of natural causes under it then they are in the wrong for giving that sedative to enable them to go out. This would have been found out on a post mortem and would have undoubtedly led to legal action not just for them but for their friends as well, not to mention the almost certain end of his Doctors job. If they have sedated her on more than one occasion and this has been noticed by a paedo then his task would have been made easier by having a comatose child to carry rather than a crying, screaming one that would attract attention.
Rememeber that they are Catholics and if they gave a confession to a Priest he would not break his vow of silence and would never tell anyone. They have asked for and recieved a private audience with the Pope, he too would not tell anyone but could offer them some form of absolution in Gods eyes to help with their feelings of guilt.
I do think that whatever the circumstances it was a terrible accident and one that the McCanns will live with forever. I do go along with yorkys point that in some ways it would be 'better' for Madeline if she died at the apartment from the sedative rather than after horrfic abuse from a gang of paedos.
This case reminds me of the case in Australia in the 70's where the baby was 'taken by Dingos' and that was never solved in any satisfactory manner.
canaryboy 14 Jan 10:39
how is going to a restaurant with friends 'out on the lash'?
LMAO
Have you seen what they consumed in the restaurant between them while they left their kids alone.
God help your kids........ if you have any.
how is going to a restaurant with friends 'out on the lash'?
LMAO
Have you seen what they consumed in the restaurant between them while they left their kids alone.
God help your kids........ if you have any.
the only reason they werent charged with manslaughter under portuguese law is simple....
there is no body to use as evidence.... they have found blood in the car and they have found evidence of it in the apartment all of which were explained away by the mccanns, the specially trained dogs they use to smell the gases only emitted by a recently decaying body were found by the sniffer dogs in the apartment the day after.
but with no body and everyone in their party saying they were in the restaurant etc when the alleged kidnap took place... the police are virtually powerless.
im not sure what really happened and as such wont hang them out to dry like some have, but i do hope what one poster said was right, that the young girl wasnt abducted by some paedo group.
there is no body to use as evidence.... they have found blood in the car and they have found evidence of it in the apartment all of which were explained away by the mccanns, the specially trained dogs they use to smell the gases only emitted by a recently decaying body were found by the sniffer dogs in the apartment the day after.
but with no body and everyone in their party saying they were in the restaurant etc when the alleged kidnap took place... the police are virtually powerless.
im not sure what really happened and as such wont hang them out to dry like some have, but i do hope what one poster said was right, that the young girl wasnt abducted by some paedo group.
they have found blood in the car and they have found evidence of it in the apartment all of which were explained away by the mccanns
---------------------------
Remember this was a hire car that they hired several weeks after the girl's disappearance. Do you honestly think, with the level of media coverage and reporters camped outside their house 24/7, they would be able to sneak out and dispose of the body via the boot of their car?
We will probably never find out what happened to the poor girl. The McCanns are guilty of some shocking parenting, shame on them for that and they will forever live with the guilt of denying their daughter a full life, but it seems unlikely they killed her and it is sad that so many people seem so enthusiastic to push that theory despite so little evidence.
---------------------------
Remember this was a hire car that they hired several weeks after the girl's disappearance. Do you honestly think, with the level of media coverage and reporters camped outside their house 24/7, they would be able to sneak out and dispose of the body via the boot of their car?
We will probably never find out what happened to the poor girl. The McCanns are guilty of some shocking parenting, shame on them for that and they will forever live with the guilt of denying their daughter a full life, but it seems unlikely they killed her and it is sad that so many people seem so enthusiastic to push that theory despite so little evidence.
they never said they had the girl in the car did they... just that they found evidence... such as hairs or blood which could have come from anywhere.....
A friend of mine has just had a baby and named her Maddie....would you?
bgp - the hair was Maddies, but it could have got therre by being transferred from another person or object, rather than putting her there. Whilst that possibility existed, they couldn't determine anything.
The McCanns are guilty of some shocking parenting,
*************************************************
Won't argue with that.
I reckon there's probably a few hundred thousand kids in Britain home alone right now.
*************************************************
Won't argue with that.
I reckon there's probably a few hundred thousand kids in Britain home alone right now.
The fact that they are suing the Portuguese detective smacks of guilt imo.
...and if they weren't suing them, that would smack of guilt as well imo.
Nonsense - if you'd lost your little girl you'd spend every spare moment trying to find her, or at least grieve in peace if you'd given up - you wouldnt sue some detective who was just doing his job and get involved in a stressful legal case.
This leaving Maddy in the flat story is the biggest load of codswallop I've heard since Tony Blair's Iraq WMD fiction.
This leaving Maddy in the flat story is the biggest load of codswallop I've heard since Tony Blair's Iraq WMD fiction.
This leaving Maddy in the flat story is the biggest load of codswallop I've heard since Tony Blair's Iraq WMD fiction.
*******************************************
Biggest load of codswallop?
Really?
You wanna try reading your own posts. :-(
*******************************************
Biggest load of codswallop?
Really?
You wanna try reading your own posts. :-(
what a shockingly dispiriting thread, all those judgemental b*stards on here should grow up.
If they really had something to do with their daughters disappeance (apart from there shocking parenting skills and unbelievable selfishness) then why would they want to keep the story in the media?
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