sacked on sunday without notice or given a reason why.

Unless youv'e been at it,he cant do that to you. Go to a local solicitor who specialises in working law,who gives a free 1/2 hour consoltation,he will point you in the right direction

He has to go through the proper procedures

If it was down to ability he has to give you warnings both verbal and written about performance. Only other way he could sack you is for gross misconduct or misconduct. Even with this he has to follow procedures.

He cant just sack you after 3 years

must give you three verbal warnings and one written one before the boot

Hes probably aware of all this but hoping that you go without making a fuss.

If he has done as you have described and just said yer sacked without any warning or explanation then you have a strong case.

don't bother with CAB

You should call ACAS

http://www.acas.org.uk

08457 47 47 47

new employer only took over very profitable shop on sept 1st 2009 previous employer solld it to him for a chunk.

Has he opened today? Could get more complicated if he has gone bust?

a lot of mssinformation on this thread

defo call ACAS

My info is correct.

The only misinformation is the 3 verbal warnings as far as I can see.

if he has closed the 1 shop down sounds like redundancy
if shop remains open and he moves someone else in it would be unfair dismissal.
if the firm has gone bust could be a bigger problem.

try this website
http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/employment/index.html

Good luck anyway mate.

Hope you get it sorted

yes shop open today with my ex deputy on duty.

has he given you wages in lieu of notice ?

im a manager and was told by h/o three verbal warnings are needed etc

are any of his relatives involved ?

I've known an independent where he was always employing his relatives who were useless.

just said a letter and any money owed wud be sent by post!

What reason did he give mate ?

Sounds like the bloke has run out of money. Although he's in the wrong getting any money out of him might be difficult.

Sorry to hear your news btw

oh sorry just read thread opener again

padlock. That depends on the circumstances. There are plenty of offences that can lead to dismissal without warnings.

yes gross misconduct etc,but not in this case.

Warning Letter to an Employee - Great Business Letters (UK)
Warning letters to employees are formal letters which form part of an ... Generally three warnings may be issued, prior to the dismissal or termination of ...
www.greatbusinessletters.co.uk/warning-letter-employee.html

padlock we dont know what the reason here is yet

Was it ?

#
David Pluck (North West) Ltd - Quality betting shops across ...
David Pluck Bookmakers are in the top six independent bookmakers in the UK with 30 betting licences and applications across the North West.
www.davepluck.co.uk - Cached

no one shop ashford kent

Bloody hell geof. Feel for you mate, must be a shocking bombshell to lose yer job without warning.

Family mate ?

I went to a large 'Panbet' shop in Ashford a couple of years back, for working reasons. Not that this has anything to do with anything.

Geofj, You should have been given a reason. If he suspects you of doing something wrong, he should have told you, or called the police. If not, possibly depending on contracts (as you've only actually worked for him for a few months) you should DEFINITELY contact an employment solicitor, as was suggested earlier, who will give you 1/2 an hour free anyway to discuss your next move.

I feel for you mate, and wish you luck.

C-C, I went for an interview with Messrs Pluck etc, they seem to me a particularly unsavoury outfit. I'll tell you more at some point.

Andy Murray started a similar thread a while back although in his case it was about being given a warning.

He lives in Ashford as well.

one boy 14 and wife currently halfway through her throat cancer radiology treatment.life is a bowl of cherries at the moment

studyform i worked for panbet in ashford from 2004 to2007 so it was probably me who served you.

SF

can an employer save on wages etc by only employing someone for a 'short' period of time ?

Best of luck geoff, go and have a spend up at the Outlet Centre

;)

is it jennings g?

no one off shop

I would have thought that a new employer should have given a new contract, failing this the conditions of the existing one apply, in which case the continuous length of service is longer than that in which the employer can just say sod off.
Without question a case for a solicitor to advise.

I was working for a firm fitting out bookies with window displays, posters, and other stuff. Had a lot of meetings with bloke running Panbet (nice chap - no names on here !! ) popped into the Ashford shop to have a quick look and measure up, played (to my shame, the fobt) while I was there.

oh ye u said that earlier,get down to citizens advice and dont let them get away with this,gl

Hes cuttin down on expenses, and you are one of em.

Not a chance of a single indy makin any serious money.

you are right on all angles i think maine road my wages were a chunk.may just be a coincidence but last week was his first losing one!

Then why didn't he just tell you he wasn't making any money and can't afford you?
I had a small independant which was "sold" to jennings, strangely enough, and yes, times are very tough, and it is virtually impossible for single shops to make any money, BUT that doesn't excuse this bloke's behaviour.
Have you asked him why, geofjudge? Perhaps that would help.

studyform new boss is a very successful businessman in the area and thought bookmaking wud be an easy profit bbut masive expenses and spell of bad weather has made him think seriously about going on i think.

Warnings not necessary of course - can go straight to instant dismissal for gross misconduct. However he has broken just about every other rule going. Notice of discplinary meeting - entitlement to representation - reasons for dismissal in writing - detals of appeals procedure etc.etc.
Even if some compensation is eventually awarded - getting it is another matter completely.
Good luck and best wishes - but you have a long and hard battle ahead I'm afraid :(

pity you,re not black geoff, the race relations would have had a beano on this, get yourself to a soliciters asap.

For the last time - speak to ACAS first, and find out some facts (i.e. is the shop closing down, been sold etc)

It's a waste of time going straight to the solicitors at this stage as this will incur unneccessary expense. ACAS mediate for free for cases like this. Unless you are claiming millions in a discrimination law suit, there is little need for solicitors.

Trust me - I've dealt with enough employment law in my time

although sad story we could get a craig david hit out of this

sacked from the bookies on a sunday

lumped my last days wages on betfair on a monday

Prove it.He will say the complete opposite.
So get some proof,and take him to the cleaners.
You can phone Acas for free and they will answer all
your questions.
At an IT you can get money and your old job back if you win.

im not black but was born in wolverhampton does that count?

GUILTY AS CHARGED!!

flipancy will not help imo !

did the lot in and was skint by tuesday

sorry ivor i thought that revealing that fact wud go against me!

You're going to have to wait for his letter before you do anything, sorry to hear of the news.

got my old boss by the throat on wednesday

but got a job at the tote on thursday

worked out id be 10k better off on fridayday

and won the lottery on the saturday

see it all ends up happy ending

good luck fella , hope it all sorts itself out

cc

I'm curious as to why you thought it was Pluck's?

stick to your day job yorky (if you have one that is !)

facts how dare you , im a pro gambler on here and part time lyracist

lycra cyst?

and spell checker,lol

lots of useful bits of advice but the key thing is the deadline for bringing your claim to the employment tribunal. this is 3 months less one day, so 2 April if you were dimissed on 3 Jan. This is a strict deadline and not as long as some people think.

http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/ has lots of info including the form to lodge your claim (the ET1 form). This can be done on-line.

nb ACAS is a concilation service so while it can give you general advice on the tribunal process it cannot give you independent advice on the strengths/weaknesses of your claim.

call to a CAB/local Law Centre won't do any harm. Advice can be a hit-and-miss but there are also some very good employment practitioners. Its worth getting advice as you may also have some additional claims to tack-on to your unfair dimissal claim (e.g. failure to give reasons?).

my view for what its worth (I have done some empl work in the past) is that you would have arguable claims for UD and notice pay. Basically the eer needs a potentially fair reason to dismiss and the dimissal must then be fair in all the circumstances. Conduct and redundancy are both potentially fair reasons, but even with this you can argue that the dismissal was not reasonable.

TUPE may also come into play if its a new employer - if this applies and you were dismissed due to the transfer then it is automatically unfair.

thanks marwood very helpful

Look on the bright side Geoff at least you wont be sat there at 9.15 tonight waitin for someone to point a gun/knife at you.

padlock 04 Jan 11:58
im a manager and was told by h/o three verbal warnings are needed etc

All companies have different rules.

If he was skimming too much his boss no doubt knows somebody who will 'lean on him' for the return of the money.

If he had no true idea of why he was sacked he will have to tell the Jobcentre, so a written letter will be required sooner rather than later.

Or go to a Jobcentre, sign on, and get them to phone him for the reason.

The deputy must know why his manager was sacked, he could always ask him.

geofjudge,take the advice of Marwood.
That's what I would do. And FWIW don't dither and hang around worrying.
Oh and Good luck with finding work :)

Baggers

never heard of plucks before now .......... came up on a google I did involving independent bookmakers

yorky

v good :)

ffs, sacked on Sunday. What's the odds on that?

i did an act of gross misconduct on xmas eve

i hope the boss will keep me on, d-day is tomorrow

threadstopper :D

Having been in a position of trying to sack an employee and do it in a manor that was in the company's best interest, .ie. legally, I learned that it is virtually impossible to sack anyone without it being automatically deemed unfair dismissal.

It is the employers duty to show that the dismissal was fair and that involves having gone through the verbal and written warning process, right to representation and programs to help the individual deal with any issues that may have been affecting his performance. For instance, if the employee was unfit to work due to being drunk, did the employer offer addiction counciling before dismissal?

Redundancy and gross misconduct are about the only two reasons for instant dismissal and defining gross misconduct is not clear cut. Theft (proven) and violent assault might just get the employer off the hook, but little else.

In my experience, from what you have said, you have been unfairly dismissed, without any doubt. As a result you are entitled to full pay whilst seeking new employment and probably a lump sum payment as compensation.

Get proper legal advice asap and hope he just doesn't 'go bust'.

Having been in a position of trying to sack an employee and do it in a manor that was in the company's best interest, .ie. legally, I learned that it is virtually impossible to sack anyone without it being automatically deemed unfair dismissal.

It is the employers duty to show that the dismissal was fair and that involves having gone through the verbal and written warning process, right to representation and programs to help the individual deal with any issues that may have been affecting his performance. For instance, if the employee was unfit to work due to being drunk, did the employer offer addiction counciling before dismissal?

Redundancy and gross misconduct are about the only two reasons for instant dismissal and defining gross misconduct is not clear cut. Theft (proven) and violent assault might just get the employer off the hook, but little else.

In my experience, from what you have said, you have been unfairly dismissed, without any doubt. As a result you are entitled to full pay whilst seeking new employment and probably a lump sum payment as compensation.

Get proper legal advice asap and hope he just doesn't 'go bust'.

^

budvar 04 Jan 15:03


Having been in a position of trying to sack an employee and do it in a manor that was in the company's best interest, .ie. legally, I learned that it is virtually impossible to sack anyone without it being automatically deemed unfair dismissal.

It is the employers duty to show that the dismissal was fair and that involves having gone through the verbal and written warning process, right to representation and programs to help the individual deal with any issues that may have been affecting his performance. For instance, if the employee was unfit to work due to being drunk, did the employer offer addiction counciling before dismissal?

Redundancy and gross misconduct are about the only two reasons for instant dismissal and defining gross misconduct is not clear cut. Theft (proven) and violent assault might just get the employer off the hook, but little else.

In my experience, from what you have said, you have been unfairly dismissed, without any doubt. As a result you are entitled to full pay whilst seeking new employment and probably a lump sum payment as compensation.

Get proper legal advice asap and hope he just doesn't 'go bust'.



.........Ive been Director of some pretty big companies and the above advice is pretty smart

There are plenty of specialist solicitors in this field who will give you a free initial consultation ..some do no win / no fee (not necessarily best option)

Act now and decisively and go straight for solicitor option ... based on the info you have provided, you are a 'shoe in' if it goes to a Tribunal

Good luck (could be the best thing to happen to you)

and your legal costs will be paid by the employer

I would also re-iterate the above - your case sounds good, and (and this is speaking from an e'ee background) I agree that the law and/or the approach of most tribunals is quite claimant friendly.

Get as much advice as you can, but if you can't find a good solicitor/employment adviser to take it on, don't be afraid to run the case yourself. Tribunals are accustomed to this, and as legal aid is very limited in employment, and most people don't want to pay privately unless the case is worth a lot, then many claimants represent themselves. I've certainly known cases where the claimant has got more (or as much) at ET than they would have done with representation as they have organised their case well and the tribunal panel has cut them a bit of slack.

the other thing to note though (mentioned above) is the risk of e'er going bankrupt or just disappearing. Man of straw etc. Worth digging around to find out who you are dealing with before embarking on the claim.

If u have been a Shop Manager for 30 yearss, wh has it taken u until Sept 2009 to find betfair?

He can do it and he has

my manager's colleague was a betting shop manager for years and now works for HMRC

he's been giving me funny looks for the past year

i think he's a lurker on here

No one has mentioned the Statutory Grievance Procedure. We have your side of the story which is briefly given and told as you want to tell it. Having sat on Tribunals I can tell you that there are always two perspectives on the same facts so that the Panel has to decide which is the more accurate perspective ON THE BALANCE OF PROBABILITY. Basically, who do we believe! It is also surprising what material is discovered in the preparation and hearing process.

From what has been written and provided there has been no history, it seems you have the bones of a sound case and, as advised, you should talk to an employment lawyer. (Costs are covered by the employer if he loses; if you lose you bear your own costs. You can also represent yourself. (Also, since justice must be seen to be done, you can sit in on Industrial Tribunal hearings. I suggest you do so for education and entertainment (though a spectator can miss out on much of the detail, which is usually found in the documentation).

A key thing is that the Tribunal is asking itself if the employer has acted reasonably. For example, if money has gone misisng and all the evidence points at you but there is no proof that you took it, you can be reasonably dismissed. However, that reasonableness requires a fair investigation and the right of appeal. I have sat on a case with video evidence of the theft and found the employee unfairly dismissed! Because the employer did not follow due process.

geof i hope everything works out for you mate, whatever the outcome

guys thanx 4 all your messages not feeling 2 good at moment.
do not deserve this treatment.
goodnite
god bless
little geof

cribbage king i joined betfair right from start posting under different name 4 legal reasons

what you need to look at is sections of the employment rights act.

(Employment Rights Act 1996 s.87, ERA 1996 s.88)

Quite simple to understand, actually getting employers to comply can be a bit more challenging.

To add ACAS just employ people to read off a database and can't give any proper advice or interpritation of you situation.

If you actually get help from them then I would like to hear what they offer.

3 Years service is worth shillings even if you have a case i am afraid .

Its worth a months wages plus the interest from when the money was due

plus upto 50% more if you claim in employment tribual as they have the power to award extra as compensation. (and then can award upto 50%less also)

He has to give you in writing (within 7 days upon your written request ) the EXACT reason why he has dismissed you .
That letter is the only thing he can bring up in an Unfair Dismissal action taken by you .
Ensure you hand him the written request in front of a reliable witness , even stating out loudly what it is :-
"I am handing you this written request asking for the exact reason you have dismissed me , as required by Law".
Don't let him verbally tell you , you want it in writing as is your Employee Rights .
Then you have the Basis for the Tribunal ...even if he does not reply.

geofjudge 04 Jan 11:54
new employer only took over very profitable shop on sept 1st 2009 previous employer solld it to him for a chunk.
=============
Did your old contract of employment cease (ie:- you were paid off per your rights )...or did the new owner just take over your contract on a continuing basis ..which means your length of service also continued..
What written letter were you given at handover ?
A new starting employment contract ??...If it IS that , then a NEW employee used to be able to be sacked without reason up to 2 years after starting new job .

But also in that case ..your old employer would have had to pay you your statutory rights /payments, incl redundancy payment, outstanding holiday entitlement , and lieu of notice money .

I assume if he has recently taken over your old firm you are covered by TUPE which means he has taken on the terms and conditions that you had with the previous owner. This covers pay, working hours , pension and any holidays that you have acrued.For dismissal you are entitiled to full notice period and a reason for the dismissal .If they have dismissed you because your position is no longer needed they are not allowed to employ someone to do the job that you were doing for a year( it may have changed from 1 year). I would still go for unfair dismissal.

thanks a million for all your words of wisdom.ship is now on an even keel and knows what course to take ,i will let you know how it was resolved.
cheers
geof

But you're not Geof!?! You're wonder wolves. Confused......

used old works account yesterday been blocked now so opened another one.

Go get em tiger for all they're worth :)

good luck, Geof.
Do let us know.

thanks study you are a top man i will buy you a good drink one day.