Halifax are Dirty Stinky Robbin Fooks

Have you ever considered not spending money that you don't have?

"surely the banks just cant keep moving the goalposts around to suit themselves"

Err, yes they can. You can always take your overdraft elsewhere. £1 per day sounds steep, I'd move my account immediately.

my overdraft is £1250 so i cant imagine another bank giving me that amount straight away

that is a thought statman

If I could just get a month ahead of myself....

The old ones are the best.

Abbey / santander are worse...Nap

Taken you one helluva long time to realise the "pretend" banks are worse than the originals .

i do have debt but it is manageable and i guess my overdraft could do with being trimmed down but im just annoyed that they are effictively more than tripling my charge each month until i do get shot of my overdraft

statman99 01 Dec 11:25
Have you ever considered not spending money that you don't have?

have you ever considered not being such a condescending pr1ck?

Our economy requires that people get credit, and borrowing against future earnings is a way of smoothing your income over different time periods. Some people prefer to save some prefer to borrow, whichever suits you best is right.

There is absolutely nothing unethical or immoral about borrowing money, but there is certainly something unethical about banks ripping people off like this. This is what happens when a "court" tells banks they can take whatever they like out of their customers' accounts without fear of legal recourse.

what he said

i concur

I used to, but I gave it up.

its interesting that a bank can quote the phrase 'terms and conditions' to a customer, ad nauseum, when a customer complains about charges being put on his account.
'why are u charging me 39 quid for being £3 overdrawn, because of a payment u authorised?'
'its in the terms and conditions, which u agreed to when u signed up to the bank account, sir'.

so go ask halifax for a copy of yr signature, agreeing to these latest terms and conditions.

Evski,

"Some people prefer to save some prefer to borrow, whichever suits you best is right.

There is absolutely nothing unethical or immoral about borrowing money,"

Do you think that borrowers and savers have been treated equally throughout this recent financial crisis? When you look at interest rates, QE, moratoriums on debt, policy changes to prevent repossessions, do you think that one party is suffering at the expense of another?

What is ethical or moral about prudent savers having to bail out feckless borrowers? On every level it's wrong - economically, morally, and financially. The addiction to debt that this country has will in my view result in the end for Sterling as a serious currency on the global stage. If/When that happens, it will be very obvious that everyone has suffered because of the mistakes of the few. Is that fair?

And, what do you think the overdraft is used for? Investing or consumption? Makes a difference doesn't it? I've got no problem with borrowing to invest, that's what capitalism is all about. do try not to confuse that with borrowing to consume though which I assume is what this overdraft is being used for. Too much of that leads to your credit going crunchy...no?

Apologies if any of that made me sound like a pr1ck.

Statman yes you would be right in saying that my overdraft is very much for consume than investment but please dont which im sure you were not anyway put me in the bracket of someone who is a feckless borrower who is to be bailed out by prudent savers.

My credit rating is pretty good, i have my own mortgage and have never defaulted on that or any other credit i have available to me.

Fair enough Heed.

I'm just tired about hearing about the "poor old borrowers" all the time when the currency s getting raped to save them..

They caused this mess. How about the poor old pensioners who are going to go hungry/ freeze to death this winter because their grandchildren wanted to keep the debt ponzi scheme going for as long as possible?

Maybe you should just stop having an overdraft if you're of reasonably good credit? Brings me back to my original "condescending pr1ck" suggestion.

I might have a good credit rating but it doesnt mean i have spare cash to clear my overdraft, doing so will take time and i know its something im going to have to do.

The last thing i want to do is borrow more money to clear my overdraft so what was the advice from the Halifax lady- take out a new loan to pay off my overdraft. I said not a chance so she reccommended i then remortgage to pay it. A bit of crappy advice i thought on there behalf by trying to tie me into more debt.

Anyway im off to work, thanks for your input anyway.

statman, you are talking bo11ox. The credit crunch wasn't caused by people having overdrafts, it was caused by banks lending to people they shouldn't lend to and by buying sub-prime securitised assets.

I don't know if your aware but 70% of UK GDP is made up of consumption and borrowing is an essential part of that. If all overdrafts/loans/creditcards were banned tomorrow the UK economy would collapse overnight.

you also talk as if savers have some god-given right to great interest rates but that isn't how it works. A factor I'm sure you're not considering is the real rate. Since inflation has been around 0% for the last years it would be riddiculous to pay 5-6%. do you understand that fetting 5% with an inflation rate of 3% is exactly the same as getting 2% with zero inflation, or no interest with inflation at -2%? I know you get a smaller nominal sum in your bank, but in real terms it is the same.

I know you think you are being clever by saying that borrowing for investment is cool but consumption borrowing isn't, but there is a massive body of economic work relating to this subject and, like it or not, our economy depends on borrowing and will do for a long time to come.

I'd suggest that the problem (that is, banks being tw@ts) is caused by the overgenerous laws that apply to people who cannot pay back their debts. Basically if you're fecked you get let off and can even keep your house. But if you're struggling you're hit for all you've got because the banks (who are struggling themselves) need to stay afloat.

Evski:

You in debt by any chance?

How many threads do you see on here asking for help in worming out of paying what they owe?

Parasites.

so when the banks use the laws to screw their customers', it's the customers' fault. Yet sopmehow when the customers use the law to screw the banks the customers are s c u m?

Statman, yes I'm in debt. I have a 0% overdraft of 2.5k which is always within £100 of the limit. I also have a student loand which will be at about £24k by the time I leave. Thing is I don't give a shyte because the interest rates are low and I can never default on the student loan. At the same time I also have a few pennies squirrelled away.

Not that there is any relevance to that. You just know you've lost the arguement, you undeservedly smug tw@t.

statman lost no argument.

I would take Even money evski has a 3k overdraft next year.

Alliance leicester is £0.50 / day up to a max of £5 / month.
1st year free overdraft.

Seems reasonable to me.

Of course I will ahve a 3k overdraft next year. Once I graduate they give me an extra £500 at 0% interest. Only a complete moron wouldn't take it.

it is fair to say then, you have a biased view of debt.

Doesn't seem that reasonable jimbo. What if you only go £100 over for a week. 5% a week = 1265% a year.

There's no shame in having an overdraft, its borrowing more than you cn afford which is a sin. A flat daily rate is unfair imo.

what do you mean biased?

The banks play me and other people so why shouldn't I play them?

Evski,

I would gladly address each of your points if you want me to?

go on then, I've got an hour free.

because the banks (who are struggling themselves) :D

Banking giant Barclays today posted a 15% rise in pre-tax profits to £1.37bn

Spanish banking group Santander has revealed a surge in profits at its UK banks for the first nine months of the year. The bank owns Abbey, Alliance and Leicester and ...
e-banking.co.uk/news/2009/Oct/spanish-banking-group-reveals-profit-increase-from-uk-banks... - Cached

Banking group HSBC reported pre-tax profits of $5bn

#
www.moneyweek.com/investment-advice/how-to-bank-profits-abroad.aspx - 53k - Cached
#
Santander announces €4.52bn profits
July 29, 2009. Santander announces €4. ... Moody's issues negative credit rating for UK banks. New virus threat for bank accounts ... Banking Times © 2005-2009. ...
www.bankingtimes.co.uk/29072009-santander-announces-e452bn-profits - Cached

statman99 01 Dec 11:25

Have you ever considered not spending money that you don't have?

What a prat. Ooooh let me get in quick with a blunt remark to the OP so that I can be a confrontational man on an internet forum.

Pathetic

This is for an 'authorised' overdraft? I am pretty sure they cannot change the amount they charge without your agreement. Or is it me?

banks change T&C's all the time, your continueing custom is taken to be as good as a signature agreeing to said changes.

they do, you are right, but arent the CC companies up against something becuase of the same thing.

so, youre telling me, say I had a 2k overdraft, they can suddenly tell me that they are charging a tenner a day per pound overdrawn?

yes, if they want to. The OFT does not have the power to decide what charges are fair and the banks now have carte blanche to do whatever they like, and these daily fees are the start of it.

Ah, cheers. Oh dear. Etc.

Evski - ok here goes - please try not to swear at me in your replies, thanks.

evski 01 Dec 14:37
statman, you are talking bo11ox. The credit crunch wasn't caused by people having overdrafts, it was caused by banks lending to people they shouldn't lend to and by buying sub-prime securitised assets.

I didn't explicitly say that overdrafts were the cause of the credit crunch. Rather, too much borrowing on a industrial scale in general was the cause. You say that it was caused by banks lending to people they shouldn't. That certainly did happen, but for every lender there's a borrower who can not be deemed to be completely blameless. I myself was offered millions of pounds of credit during the boom, most of which I turned down on the basis I wouldn't be able to afford to pay it back. I made this prudent decision, and I am now paying through low interest rates and reduction in purchasing power of my savings, whilst all monetary and fiscal policy is biased towards helping those that borrowed too much keep the assets they shouldn't own. It's not fair - (you didn't address my point of fairness earlier)

I don't know if your aware but 70% of UK GDP is made up of consumption and borrowing is an essential part of that. If all overdrafts/loans/creditcards were banned tomorrow the UK economy would collapse overnight.

I am aware of the 70% figure. Don't you find it a bit worrying that this can't be sustained unless we as a nation keep borrowing more and more? Can you not see that this is unsustainable? We in the west are so addicted to debt we think there is no other way - of course there is - people can consume with their savings and current income (and hence borrow less). Rather a deep recession and reallocation of resources to productive parts of the economy than a national bankruptcy, which is the path we tread at present.

you also talk as if savers have some god-given right to great interest rates but that isn't how it works. A factor I'm sure you're not considering is the real rate. Since inflation has been around 0% for the last years it would be riddiculous to pay 5-6%. do you understand that fetting 5% with an inflation rate of 3% is exactly the same as getting 2% with zero inflation, or no interest with inflation at -2%? I know you get a smaller nominal sum in your bank, but in real terms it is the same.


I would only argue that savers have a right not to have the purchasing power of their savings deliberately eroded by the central banks. I'm afraid it appears to be you that is talking like people have a god given right to borrow....of course that's not how it works either. Lending is a commercial activity and if someone doesn't want to lend to you then you can't force them to. The bottom line is that governments are manipulating interest rates in the favour or borrowers - that's not me demanding great interest rates for savers, just a fair price of money. I don't need a lecture in real rates of interest thanks - however, I would encourage not to be quite so eager to embrace the government's inflation statistics. A careful scrutiny of the figures used, plus a pragmatic analysis of the price of most commodities out there, suggest inflation is alive and well and only going to get higher. (much higher than the govt will admit)

I know you think you are being clever by saying that borrowing for investment is cool but consumption borrowing isn't, but there is a massive body of economic work relating to this subject and, like it or not, our economy depends on borrowing and will do for a long time to come.

Evski, I'm not trying to be clever. I'm just saying what I think. Great capatalist economies (America, basically), are founded on debt. Money borrowed to put into place a productive economy that can create and export to the world NOT to consume other people's stuff. Right now we have a situation where we borrow money from the Chinese to pay for stuff they've made. we are a very easy middle man to cut out out. When it happens it will mean the end of civilization like we know it, because Sterling will be near worthless. The only way to avoid this is to stop relying on so much borrowing and live within our means. If that means taking a proper recession then so be it. We've had them before and we'll have them again. at least we'll come through the other side.

By the way - why are you so angry about all of this?

What are your predictions for the future Statman?

Is there any light at the end of the tunnel for savers?

I have a MBNA Credit Card £4000 limit with APR 34.9% increased from 21.9%

I have received a letter from them .......we have reduced the limit to £200.....more appropiate based on your current circumstances......we regard ourselves as responsible lenders.....takes account of your current financial standing....etc

I have a zero balance on this card and have zero debt. I found their letter offensive

MBNA are totally incompetent.

Cancelled my card five years ago, yet they still ring me up about four times a year to offer some new deal or another on a non-existent account.

Also, they persist in sending blank cheques despite my explicit request not to do so on at least three occasions.

CITY & HUNSLET

R Sadler: use of site for self storage containers, land at Viaduct Road, Burley. Kenlet UK: change of use, Unit 21a 1 Bridge Estates, 64-76 Mabgate, Sheepscar. Leeds Professional College: change of use, Nelson House, 2 George Mann Road. Leeds City Council: alterations to drying shed, Thwaite Mills, Thwaite Lane. Lewis and Hickey: change of use from shop to bank (temporary), 31 Bond Street. R Willis: dormer window, 103 Wickham Street, Beeston. St Martins Property Corporation: sign, 1 East Parade. Lewis & Hickey: signs, 77 Albion Street and 31 Bond Street. Clear Channel Outdoor: signs to bus shelter, Pontefract Road, Stourton and Wakefield Road. Mc Donalds Restaurant: signs, Low Road. Washington Green Retail: signs, Castle Galleries, 24-25 Albion Place.

:(

borrowers are idiots

its as simple as that

statman, I appologise for doing exactly what I accused you of. I've been to the pub and am bored.

Of course you are right that the banks are taking the p1ss with rates of interest. They are simultaneously slashing the rate for spenders and hiking the rates for borrowers (with the exception of mortgages). It's not fair but the banks get to screw everyone and it should come as no surprise.

I don't see why you think people should be restricted by their current income. I agree that reckless borrowing is a problem but I knwo plenty of people that have borrowed to do things like travelling, going to uni( I borrowed £10k 5 years ago to do my a-levels again, which I paid back), buy a car, get wasted. As long as a person is capable of paying back I don't see the problem. If there were no borrowers you would get sod all interest on your current account.

I don't quite know wht you mean about us being a middle-man. can you explain?

I'm angry abut it because I see the banks taking the p1ss every day. They lose a shed load of cash and we bail them out. Who suffers? We fecking do through higher taxes, fewer jobs and fewer services. Then the banks manage to steal victory from the jaws of defeat (I suspect corruption) and are effectively given carte blanche to rape the public at will again.
At the same time they start recording big profits again but what is happening to that money? Does it offset some of the cash they lost and repay the exchequer? Does it **. It goes to the same bankers that lost it all last year in another round of astronomical bonuses.

Dispite government claims of new regulation preventing "short-termism" they have done sod all and it's business as usuall for everyone except joe public who is being screwed through more charges, less available credit, less interest on savings and more interest on debt. And because of this government there is no choice in the banking sector. Concentration of ownershp has increased because of their actions making us all worse offd.

well said evski

i was 2k overdrawn yesterday , so my interest charges were still less than the impending charges.

decided to pay it off today ,like you rightly say ...robin**ts

Simply take a small loan to clear the overdraft and pay it in 12 installments, save a fortune in charges.

keep sir freddy happy

Sir Fred Goodwin
Goodwin, 50, is the former Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) boss blamed for the collapse of the bank in October for losing $35 billion due to exposure of bad debts. He resigned in the same month when the government used $29 billion in taxpayer's money to bail it out from bankruptcy. The bank gave Goodwin a yearly pension of $1 million, eliciting public anger and criticism from Prime Minister Gordon Brown.

Thanks for any advice people i think il try to get rid of my overdraft then get rid of my Halifax account eventually. Is there any banks or institutions out there that you can bank with who are not looking to rip you off, what about the post office

According to my mrs, Halifax bank were taken over by Lloyds group about a year ago, but stilll operate under the name.

Halifax Estate Agents was sold to a company called LRC for £1 about a month ago.

Banking counters situated inside Halifax Estate Agents offices were closed down and the staff were made redundant.

My mrs said there were no end of complaints over the £1 a day overdraft charge in the nearest branch to her office.

Evski - you would be better off studying and/or working to clear your ridiculously high student debts rather than coming on here all day and calling tax paying, law abiding, creditworthy forumites pr1cks.

You have your priorities badly wrong.