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The Dragon
23 Feb 22 19:39
Joined:
Date Joined: 12 Mar 05
| Topic/replies: 48,533 | Blogger: The Dragon's blog
they are just great horses who gives a monkeys where they come from,

Nationalism at its worstDevil

Esp on a forum like this we should all be working togeteher to share info and get winners
Pause Switch to Standard View Never got this Irish v English thing...
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Report PeteTheBloke February 23, 2022 7:59 PM GMT
As the Iron Duke said, "If I was born in a stable, would it make me Al Boum Photo?"
Report irishone February 24, 2022 12:12 AM GMT
Its mainly due to micro racism...consider this

"Bryony Frost became the first woman to ride a winner in a Grade One race at the prestigious meeting as Frodon held on for victory in the Ryanair Chase... from the RP"
This is a blatant lie. Katie Walsh was the first grade 1 female winner, won the bumper on relegate a year previous

Last week it was Plunkett with "betfair hurdle is the richest handicap hurdle in europe  "
Another blatant lie.the galway hurdle is worth much more

Each time these micro racist remarks are made the fuel is put on the english v irish fire, the english dont see it, but Irish people get offended and retaliate.

Then theres cobra sam who calls ME "some paddy" , impossible and hibore on here all of whom are regularly anti anything irish

I TAKE YOUR POINT ABOUT THE BEST HORSES but when the vast majority are either bred trained or owned by or in Ireland why do the English in particular try to put the Irish down ?
Report irishone February 24, 2022 12:25 AM GMT
When you back from cheltenham on the boat either through holyhead or pembroke often with the victorious , connections, drivers, stable lads , horse boxes and trophys the camaraderie and craic is stupendous. No one ever says anything about giving the english a good stuffing, its all about the horses, the rides and the punting. You couldn't meet a less racist bunch of people who would buy you a pint no matter where you come from.... the last thing on their minds is beating english horses and they have the greatest respect for them. Thats the truth.
Report irishone February 24, 2022 12:33 AM GMT
As for sharing sinners
I shared six winners on here last year for people
And all you get back is abuse, insults and ridicule
...and you wouldnt mind but the culprits put up three or four in massive essay type posts trying to cover all bases
Report irishone February 24, 2022 12:34 AM GMT
*winners
Report cobra sam February 24, 2022 4:56 AM GMT
come on man,,cheer up,,we all know your a massive patriot who loves himself....but this about the fezzie....RSA what you reckon on the chances of Gallard Du Mensil on at good prices but looked like going elsewhere a while back...come on Irish give me some good news
Report layingisthewayforward February 24, 2022 1:44 PM GMT
I've never got this irish vs britain thing at Cheltenham either.  I think the poster the irishone is the only that is worried about, or obsessed about it maybe a more accurate description.
Report layingisthewayforward February 24, 2022 1:45 PM GMT
irishone • February 24, 2022 12:25 AM GMT
When you back from cheltenham on the boat either through holyhead or pembroke often with the victorious , connections, drivers, stable lads , horse boxes and trophys the camaraderie and craic is stupendous. No one ever says anything about giving the english a good stuffing, its all about the horses, the rides and the punting. You couldn't meet a less racist bunch of people who would buy you a pint no matter where you come from.... the last thing on their minds is beating english horses and they have the greatest respect for them. Thats the truth.


I'm sure this is the case, so why on earth do you come on here then and start talking about Ireland beating Britain?
Report penzance February 24, 2022 2:35 PM GMT
Frost was the 1st over jumps.
Report Ramruma February 24, 2022 5:46 PM GMT
Is this the Racing Post report in question?

It worked out pretty well, with 23-year-old Frost becoming the first female jockey to win a Grade 1 at the Cheltenham Festival over obstacles.
https://www.racingpost.com/news/frost-melts-our-hearts-as-best-friend-frodon-delivers-on-biggest-stage-of-all/371011

That was written by David Jennings, who is, of course, Irish.
Report Bentring February 24, 2022 7:45 PM GMT
On upping the Ante you would think he's English the way he drools over some British horse's.DJ the British viewers don't need you to wax about those horse's to keep watching your show.
Mind you if Gavin had a different sidekick even more would watch
Report brandyontherocks February 24, 2022 8:36 PM GMT
Your comment there Bent sums up the whole point of the op.
Report irishone February 24, 2022 9:08 PM GMT
The same comment was plastered all over the front of u k papers
Google

"Bryony Frost becomes first woman to ride Grade One winner at Cheltenham".... and see what comes up .

The post , the standard and the guardian had it on the front page, nothing about jumps or obstacles.
Report Ramruma February 24, 2022 11:26 PM GMT
Bryony Frost the first G1 winner ... in the headline and, sometimes, qualified as over jumps in the story. It is a fact of life that headlines are necessarily short.

Like in the Standard, as you say, but also in the Irish Independent, the Irish Mirror, and RTE.

Bryony Frost makes history as she becomes first female to claim a Grade One at Cheltenham after Ryanair Chase win
https://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/cheltenham/bryony-frost-makes-history-as-she-becomes-first-female-to-claim-a-grade-one-at-cheltenham-after-ryanair-chase-win-37913870.html

She also became the first female jockey to ride a top-level winner at the Cheltenham Festival on Frodon in the Ryanair Chase in 2019
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/horse-racing/bryony-frost-cheltenham-festival-frodon-23703673

Frost becomes first woman to ride a Cheltenham Grade One winner as Frodon clinches Ryanair Chase
https://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/2019/0314/1036427-frodon-clinches-ryanair-chase-with-gutsy-ride/

So not an anti-Irish conspiracy after all.
Report irishone February 25, 2022 10:36 AM GMT
RAMRUNA .....Whilst I am aware you don't want to endorse prejudice,  by highlighting blatant lies as "necessarily short headlines" then denying or disclaiming they were not unfavourable.....maybe It actually suggests they (THE LIES) arise out of prejudice or bigotry.

Laying ...who started colonisation mate ? O k it might not have been the Brits and we appear to have forgiven the greeks, the romans,the vikings etc but after 800 years its nice to get our own back now and then !
Report Ramruma February 25, 2022 10:52 AM GMT
@irishone -- I'm not saying they weren't unfavourable, I'm saying that exactly the same "blatant lies" (if you want to call them that) can also can be seen in the Irish media, and I gave three examples, and it is unlikely that Irish papers and the Irish state broadcaster see themselves as part of an anti-Irish conspiracy.
Report Ramruma February 25, 2022 11:06 AM GMT
However, I can see why Irish racegoers queuing for the boat back home might have reacted to the British headlines, if that is all they had seen; they could not realise the Irish media did exactly the same.
Report irishone February 25, 2022 12:56 PM GMT
Three things noted here Ramruna.

1. You have dropped the Plunkett micro racist comment from the chat

2. You have no idea how the newspapers between U K and Ireland work,the similar names give it away.

3. Both were blatant lies and thats a fact unfortunately
Report Ramruma February 25, 2022 1:11 PM GMT
1. I was following your advice in this thread to google the Bryony headline, and came across the Irish examples. I did not google Plunkett's comment, or for that matter the prize money paid by different hurdle races.

2. The similar names do not give it away. The Irish Independent is more than a hundred years old, and its British namesake was founded in the 1980s or 90s. They are not connected. The Mirror, you might have a point except that commercial considerations would suggest it would not spend all its time insulting its readers (and buyers!). RTE is not a newspaper; it is the Irish state broadcaster.

3. They were not "blatant lies" even if they were misleading or even wrong. However, in the context of headlines, understandable, and the Irish media saying the same surely proves it was not some grand anti-Irish conspiracy.
Report sixtwosix February 25, 2022 3:30 PM GMT
I don't think any punter gives two hoots as to the ownership or country of origin .....backing the winner or placed horse is all that matters.
It is an obsession of the media and the 'personalities' who dominate it .....they have no relevance to those of us watch and bet on it ....and are not paid to do so.
Report irishone February 25, 2022 7:12 PM GMT
Ramruna ....you  brought up the term "anti-irish conspiracy" not me, you are the only one suggesting it is a conspiracy. I dont think its a conspiracy at all. Never said it was.

Mind you there is so much evidence about to suggest you might be right ....

How about boris asking why varadkhar wasn't called murphy like the rest of them ?
Or the secret anti-Irish blacklist at Pontins ?
How about neil lennons managership of hibs and the problems he has had with micro racism ?

And how about your house of parliament coming out with this motion  last year ?
That this House condemns anti-Irish racism in all its forms; notes that recent reports of anti-Irish and anti-Irish Traveller sentiments are disturbing; further notes the immeasurable contribution to public life of Irish people and recognises the important role Irish culture through language, dance, music and the arts plays in the lives of many people across the UK; recognises that Irish people have made an immensely positive contribution to society on the island of Britain; and urges the Government to do more to protect Irish people from discrimination and to consider bringing forward legislation to enshrine in law those protections.

I wonder if they , like you, thought there was a conspiracy ?
Report irishone February 25, 2022 7:24 PM GMT
I dont think its a conspiracy at all.

Clearly all we can do is make people aware of it.

You have to realise that the Cheltenham operation is one of the most racist events in the U K ,not just for the Irish but for black people.

You wont see a black jockey all week.
You will see a disproportionate number of black servers in the restaurents there, I noticed it at the showcase meeting.
Bookies want to take euros but the rate is disproprtionate
It discriminates against foreign nationals
You can count on one hand how many black people you will see at the festival.

You have racism in every walk of life, its not conspiratorial in my opinion ,but people are not aware of it.
Report irishone February 25, 2022 7:30 PM GMT
When i say you can count on one hand how many black people you will see at the festival i obviously mean racegoers not employees
Report PeteTheBloke February 25, 2022 8:14 PM GMT
Bookies want to take euros but the rate is disproportionate

SHOCK NEWS: Bookies are greedy
Report irishone February 25, 2022 8:19 PM GMT
True enough ....but it is also discrimination
Report PeteTheBloke February 25, 2022 8:20 PM GMT
To be honest, irishone, I think we can find plenty of reasons to take against the Ingerlish (I distinguish them
from the other British), but racism against us really isn't a big factor. I reckon they quite like us, on the
whole. It just makes us look chippy if we choose that as a grievance.

I find a lot of Ingerlish arrogant, money-oriented, crass, rude, ignorant, insular, humourless and bigoted....but guess
what? I meet people like that here sometimes, as well. And in any other country you care to mention.
Report irishone February 25, 2022 9:09 PM GMT
Yes thats true. As an irishman in Greece I endure racism at least once every week. Its not something that the locals are aware of. They dont even know they are being racist most of the time, but if you mention turks or albanians!!!!! ! You would have expected given the different levels of education , diversity, multi-culture etc....in comparing Greece and the U K that the English would be much further down the road with their awareness of micro racism.
Report cobra sam February 26, 2022 6:52 AM GMT
you should live where i am..the most racist lot ever and the government talks it everyday..anyway back to the horses plz ..all this racist talk and woke brigade bolllllox should be for another forum im sure,,,
Report irishone February 26, 2022 6:58 AM GMT
Absolutely
Wouldnt want a thread with such a title to show the U K up for what it is .....
"Nationalism at its worse ? "

Try UKRAINE mate
Report cobra sam February 26, 2022 7:07 AM GMT
Cheltenham Festival,,,getting boring Irish going on and on,,like a worn out record...try to be a lover not a hater
Report irishone February 26, 2022 8:51 AM GMT
I am a lover thanks
Not a loser though
Report cobra sam February 26, 2022 9:26 AM GMT
oioi ,,thats more like it,,,
Report PeteTheBloke February 26, 2022 10:35 AM GMT
Gotta love the BF forum - no danger of navel-gazing around here.
Report irishone February 26, 2022 9:23 PM GMT
Laugh
Report layingisthewayforward February 27, 2022 10:17 AM GMT
Quite ironic really that an irishman talks about racism and bigotry. Anyways let's get back to racing.
Report Ramruma February 27, 2022 10:52 AM GMT
No but it is ironic that a poster complaining about British papers printing the same headlines as the Irish media goes on to casually dismiss Greeks as a bunch of backward racists. Motes and beams, motes and beams.
Report irishone February 27, 2022 2:27 PM GMT
Thats not true ramruna
I never dismissed greeks
Where did I ever dismiss them ?
Report irishone February 27, 2022 2:29 PM GMT
Nice try laying
Have yer pop and get back to racing
This thread is about someone not getting the english irish thing at cheltenham
Report duffy February 27, 2022 4:23 PM GMT
As an irishman in Greece

Was this the much less vaunted effort by Sting before he came up with An Englishman in New York?
Report irishone February 27, 2022 7:51 PM GMT
Indeed it was Duffy , surprised you hadn't heard of it previously Laugh
Report duffy February 28, 2022 3:51 AM GMT
Laugh
Report cobra sam February 28, 2022 6:21 AM GMT
hey irish a few irish over here fair skinned lads mostly try to stay away from the sun,,like myself tho cant help it when golfing or out on the bike ..love the climate tho..how about yourself are you a sun worshipper plenty of those here as well?
Report irishone February 28, 2022 8:15 AM GMT
Not as much as I worship HDB
Report cobra sam February 28, 2022 12:16 PM GMT
prefer his wife myself..funny enuff gingerish with fair skin,,,wouldnt like too much sun
Report Flemenstar March 1, 2022 9:41 AM GMT
fully agree with OP - never understood the nationalistic fervour from some quarters for French bred horses owned by an American just because of where the horse happens to lay its head each evening

I personally couldn't care if my horse was English, Irish or from Timbuktu if it was carrying my money as long as it came home first, I don't know anyone who cares about the Prestbury Cup that the media seems keen to big up each year.
Report The Dragon March 1, 2022 3:20 PM GMT
spot on flemenstar
Report sageform March 3, 2022 8:10 PM GMT
I am not interested in the Prestbury Cup but I do care if there is a bias that ensures that most of the winners are trained in Ireland as it gets a bit galling to keep backing losers. How is anyone in England supposed to judge the Irish (or French) form? And don't ell me to look it up in the RP. The Irish domination has drastically reduced my interest and my betting turnover on the meeting.
Report Ramruma March 3, 2022 10:10 PM GMT
My theory is that last year's greenwash was mainly due to Covid and not handicapping or buying or any of the other more popular theories, so the conclusion is that this year we are back on a level playing field and British runners might be more value.

Trouble is, British trainers do believe it and so some horses are skipping the Festival.
Report irishone March 4, 2022 6:02 PM GMT
I hope you are right ramruna because we can see the best irish horses at dublin or leoopardstown or punchestown. If you have no competition over there , why bother going ? The money is better in Ireland and you havent got the travel problems.
Report MALAY March 4, 2022 6:53 PM GMT
agree OP, load of pish, same with Greyhound derby parading with a tricolour, a load of nonsense.
Report Hibore March 5, 2022 6:55 PM GMT
Anyone else experience it apart from on here ? Maybe the posters have more political agendas as this barage of anti British is year long not just around Cheltenham.

I’ve been in the Paddie box at Cheltenham many times and looked forward to the craic with the Irish lads where both Irish and British punters back the horses not countries. The biggest cheer one year was Altior and the whole box went bonkers….go figure that reading the dross on here.

80% of my antepost bets are Irish horses so hope they win and make it an incredible festival.
Report Bentring March 5, 2022 7:58 PM GMT
80% are fictional
Report irishone March 6, 2022 9:36 AM GMT
Vast majority of English v Irish divide comes from the British.

Only last week here is what the BHA had to say .....

"While results in the Cheltenham handicaps last year were disappointing from a British perspective, a detailed statistical analysis highlighted an area within the ratings files that went beyond a basic Britain v Ireland issue – one in which we could improve our work and provide a better product for British jumps racing year round. "

So they admit there is a Britain v Ireland Issue and want to improve British jumps racing ...... So they penalise the Irish...but hang on ...I thought you wanted to see the best horses no matter where they.come from ?

Why could that be ? Because the "results in the Cheltenham handucaps were disappointing".

could the British establishment not be happy with seeing the best horses no matter where they come from.....

And don't kid yourself its just in the handicaps.
Report sageform March 6, 2022 5:14 PM GMT
It is natural to wonder why the Irish bias in handicaps is so big these days. If every horse had an equal chance then if there are 40% of runners from Ireland there should be 40% Irish wins. Any other outcome means that the GB handicapper is underestimating Irish horses. It might help if GB trainers ran more horses in Irish handicaps. Quite different in condition races where handicapping is irrelevant. Australia reacted pretty fast when Irish and GB horses won their big handicaps.
Report irishone March 6, 2022 10:33 PM GMT
Yes sageform one would have thought most countries would want to protect their horse racing industries.

The problem I have with the BHA is the way they act , or the way they try to do it. They appear to be run by a bunch of bungling amateurs . Fire fighting at its worse.

Its the same in Ireland by the way !
Report irishone March 6, 2022 11:15 PM GMT
You mention Australia Sageform and I visited back in 2013, visiting Geelong, Ascot and Flemington for the Cup. It was some eye opener.
This year I was lucky enough to visit San Franciscos Golden Gate fields. Again a massive eye opener.
I think we dont want to learn from these former colonies. They do a much better job marketing and promoting the sport. The food at the tracks is very good in comparison. I didnt see any bands being advertised after racing. I saw jockeys being introduced to the crowds before mounting the horses. Its a very relaxed atmosphere, No bookies in the states just the tote but dividends readily available .....no "WINNER ALL RIGHT",cr4pp like you get in Ireland.
Report sageform March 7, 2022 9:04 AM GMT
I have been racing in the US a few times and it is cheap and there is plenty of space. They soon tore up the Santa Anita AW surface and put the dirt back when Europe won most of the Breeders Cup races though. No racing authority wants to see most of their prize money going abroad. Punters may be happy to back foreign horses and cheer them on but they don't see GB horses training costs, stable staff missing their win bonus, and all of the other knock on affects of a decline in GB horses.
Report irishone March 7, 2022 7:01 PM GMT
Found an Irish bred winner ...



Report irishone March 9, 2022 5:04 AM GMT
The journey starts today
Fully wound up and itching to go
Good luck to all and sundry on here
Have a great few days .....I will
Report LoyalHoncho March 9, 2022 11:50 PM GMT
I honestly don't know why anyone would want to bet in these Cheltenham handicaps anyway?
The books must love it.
Here;s hoping all come home safe - horses and jockeys, and that the racing is unhindered by poor starts, low suns and missing obstacles.
Report The Dragon March 10, 2022 5:54 PM GMT
Paddy Power advert is gross and just makes my point TBH- Nationalism and division is not helpfulSad
Report LoyalHoncho March 12, 2022 1:54 AM GMT
I never used to see any division until this clown Chamberlin invented it.  I've been with the Irish in another sporting environment and win or lose they are bloody good crack.
Report The Dragon March 12, 2022 7:26 AM GMT
indeed LH
Report sageform March 12, 2022 8:43 AM GMT
It is not about the racing fans (although Irish punters have supported Irish horses for as long as I can remember), it is about the continuing swing towards Irish domination of the sport. There may be NO GB trained runners in the Turners Novice Chase next week which demonstrates the point. Much of the blame must go to GB trainers who don't give novice chasers enough experience in competitive races and the BHA for not changing the programme to help them. GB punters are providing the prize money for Cheltenham and Aintree don't forget. When it comes to flat racing, we have relied on foreign (middle eastern mostly) money to breed and buy the best horses, but they are not interested in jumping. Take away the Makhtoums, Juddmonte and a few others from that region and GB trainers would not win many top flat races either.
Report brandyontherocks March 12, 2022 2:54 PM GMT
The 6lb the British Handicapper put on Surprise Package didn't seem to have much affect in the Imperial Cup!!!!!
Report Bentring March 12, 2022 3:08 PM GMT
Tha onslaught has started early,something to be said about running in competitive races and don't come on here with carrots or juice,if you want evidence of juice just look back to super Saturday turf sprint in due-bye
Report brandyontherocks March 12, 2022 5:33 PM GMT
Didn't mention anything about juice, Bent
Report Bentring March 12, 2022 7:50 PM GMT
Not aimed at u brandy sorry,just before on the forum I've read along those lines and the only evidence I have witnessed is in duebye over the years and all the British and Irish we're tested but none of the shieks at super Saturday
Report LoyalHoncho March 13, 2022 12:36 AM GMT
Does anyone think any horse will go twice this year?  I seem to remember Willie Wumpkins winning two races one year, way back.  Am I right anyone?
Report Ramruma March 13, 2022 9:30 AM GMT
@LoyalHoncho -- they changed the rules a couple of years ago to stop horses running twice, so no (unless they changed it back without telling me).
Report LoyalHoncho March 13, 2022 1:56 PM GMT
Many thanks.
Report sageform March 13, 2022 8:15 PM GMT
Not sure about Willie Wumpkins but he did win the Pertemps final 3 years running. Not sure which other race he could have run in. Moody Man won the Imperial Cup and County Hurdle in the same week for Jim Burley and Philip Hobbs.
Report duffy March 13, 2022 10:54 PM GMT
and Blowing Wind did that.

Mysilv was the last I can remember to run twice at the festival, 6th in the Champion and 2nd in the stayers.
Report brandyontherocks March 14, 2022 11:48 AM GMT
Our Armegeddon was pulled up in the 2004 Arkle then won the Cathcart 2 days later.
Report LoyalHoncho March 14, 2022 8:04 PM GMT
I go with you sage.  The memory not as good as before.  I do remember a horse who won two days running at Cheltenham though - about forty years ago - and it was Irish as I recall.
Report ambush March 15, 2022 2:37 AM GMT
generosa won the pertemps on the tues and was btn a neck and a hd the following day in the coral cup.trained by the legendry j l hassett .inkslinger was the last horse to win twice at the festival won catcart after winning the champion chase the previous day, montelado is the only horse to win conscecutive races winning the bumper and then winning the supreme the following year,
Report The Sawyer March 15, 2022 3:55 PM GMT
Loyal

I remember, as I'm sure many others do, an Irish trained horse winning consecutive races at the Cheltenham festival
Report Bentring March 18, 2022 7:10 PM GMT
The answer is Montelado,and the answer to OP is it lies solely with GB the report about Hillcrest not travelling and pulled up where all the report concentrated on him bar 2 lines telling us Ginto had suffered a fatal injury and 3 others pulled up GO FIGURE
Report duffy March 18, 2022 7:16 PM GMT
Desperate about Ginto, as for Hillcrest, probably need to wait for the nearly 4 miler if it's through the slop to see him in his element.
Report sageform March 19, 2022 12:57 PM GMT
Something might emerge to explain Shishkin and Hillcrest. The only really heavily backed English horses were both beaten in 100 yards.
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