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FOYLESWAR
18 Nov 20 08:31
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Date Joined: 09 Jan 11
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the annual speed test for  novice chasers with several interesting candidates from both sides of the water . supreme winner  shishkin is a short price imo considering the mayhem which changed the shape of the race 3 out 3/1 not for me .allmankind won well on his chase debut and interesting to see how he goes next time . could be a decent sized field as many will want to avoid envoi allen in the marsh . we dont know excactly how the supreme would have panned out if all had stood up and one at a decent price each way is willie mullins elixir d,anay who had some cracking form in top company in novice hurdles last season when splitting envoi and longhouse poet , 33/1 each way looks very fair imo. opinions encouraged fire away and good luck . i like a few bites of the cherry and hendos allart also looks a big price at 50s each way . selections elixir danay 33/1 and allart 50/1 both each way ..

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Replies: 109
By:
buddeliea
When: 18 Nov 20 12:07
Agree re ED at 33/1, and have backed him e/w, could be serious value.

You are right we dont know how the Supreme would have panned out, particularly for ED and CG the worst affected.

I am very much looing forward to seeing Shishkin over the fences, and seeing if my comparing him to Altior as a hurdler, carries on to the fences.
By:
buddeliea
When: 18 Nov 20 12:09
ED entered Sunday
By:
duffy
When: 18 Nov 20 12:11
I think Shishkin wants marking up for his Supreme win because as far as I am concerned he won that race after basically re-mounting.Grin

There is another reason why the field might be a bit bigger than usual as well as the EA effect and that is because we have lost the novice handicap chase so there's less reason to hide horses away all season trying to get a nice mark.
By:
buddeliea
When: 18 Nov 20 12:20
I am hoping Shishkin is another Altior, my eyes told me they were similar ability over hurdles.

Personally think had Shishkin been where Abacadabras was during the race and visa versa, shishkin would have p1ssed in.
However take the dodge pot AF out the race,whats the finishing positions then?
By:
paulo47
When: 18 Nov 20 12:46
I have been following the mare Heaven Help us , for similar ' traffic problem ' reasons caused by AF , unfortunately not worked out that well (one win ) , not strictly comparable though .
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 18 Nov 20 13:39
shishkin may be the next altior but then he could be the next beuvair dair ,i know he has won a ptp and he should be fine over fences and my head says he will but untill he jumps a fence in public we dont know for sure , ed and captain guinness were both going easily at the time of the asterion incident and it was all to play for. well done if ya got the 10/1 or whatever shiskin but at 3s he is easy for me to pass over .we will get some clues in the next few weeks .shishkin entered at kempton next week .
By:
buddeliea
When: 18 Nov 20 13:47
Sadly i have no price for Shishkin, just got him in a few multiples.
ED only bet so far.
By:
harry callaghan
When: 18 Nov 20 13:55
Shishkin was never better than 9/2 or 5/1
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 18 Nov 20 14:12
jeez dint realise that harry ,
By:
harry callaghan
When: 18 Nov 20 14:27
Yes despicable like everything priced up by the bookmakers...I’m backing 2 horses this week for buttons who interest me at the odds but the way I read jumps both have got no chance
By:
duffy
When: 22 Nov 20 17:21
Blackbow impressive today
By:
harry callaghan
When: 23 Nov 20 13:37
Lovely debut but 6/4 in places already. One horse broke down and the other one eased from 3 out marvellous
By:
duffy
When: 23 Nov 20 13:52
Mick Pastor was strangled I thoughtGrin
By:
harry callaghan
When: 23 Nov 20 13:52
So did I Duffy
By:
harry callaghan
When: 23 Nov 20 13:53
No doubt a new set of reins needed
By:
Fashion Fever
When: 23 Nov 20 14:06
loved the way he finnished
By:
buddeliea
When: 23 Nov 20 14:41
Perfect start, Jumped well.
Kempton next at Xmas says Hendo.
By:
impossible123
When: 23 Nov 20 14:57
Shishkin was very, very pleasing on his debut over fences. He just needs to deliver next March at Cheltenham; 11/1 double (any race) with Envoi Allen for a quick double would be nice.
By:
Fashion Fever
When: 23 Nov 20 15:01
strange really you'd think he would frighten most to the marsh but then theres envoi Allen and vice versa
By:
duffy
When: 23 Nov 20 16:23
Going to be interesting this year because there will be a bigger field in the Arkle this year, there's no novices handicap for any potential really good one to hide away for and no matter what Shishkin does, there will be more running in the Arkle to hide away from Envoi Allen than those who run in the JLT to hide away from Shishkin IMO.
By:
buddeliea
When: 24 Nov 20 08:00
Hard to say that by the time we get near March, which one out the two would possibly scare off more potential opposition.

Personally i hope that connections of horses that have proved up to a challenge of the Arkle or Marsh will run their horses.
A bigger field Arkle with a few potential winners would be most welcome and a very exciting prospect, as would a Marsh.
My gut feeling is both will be relatively small fields, i hope i am wrong.

Shiskin and EA both to me look serious novice chasers with potential to reach the very top in their respective spheres, but we have a while to go for others to stake a claim.
Exciting times!!
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 24 Nov 20 08:14
every chance shish and envoi could meet one day ,shish bred for further won a 3m point , 2 4 miles would be ideal for both hopefully a clash somewhere along the line. a denman kauto type clash would go down well with media and racefans .
By:
buddeliea
When: 24 Nov 20 09:00
It would Foyles, but the way Hendo is talking he very much sees Shishkin as a proper 2 miler, whilst EA seems to be heading towards 3 miles.
Early days, but it would surprise me if they ever met.
By:
harry callaghan
When: 24 Nov 20 09:13
I think in a year where many horses didn’t go to punchestown, fairy house and aintree and other top meetings that we will be dealing with far less injured horses and thus more horses to take these 2 horses on with, with competitive fields in both marsh and arkle similar to the rsa highly likely...here’s hoping for competitive racing and good betting heats and these 2 horses will be beatable as the market is still betting on uncompetitive betting heats like past years...

we will see, I think people are mad wanting to bet these 2 horses at the prices available myself without all the facts, that isn’t to say both cannot win or be exceptional like their potential says they could be but the odds make no appeal to me...
By:
impossible123
When: 24 Nov 20 13:13
Shishkin is the timely replacement for Altior just as the latter was for Sprinter Sacre; Envoi Allen is heading for the Marsh and little doubt Gold Cup next year.

I do not think they will ever meet in the future unless their promise is curtailed for unforeseen reason.
By:
sageform
When: 03 Dec 20 21:37
Shishkin does look clear of the rest so far but 20/1 bar one on the exchange is surely excessive. What ever wins the Henry VIII on Saturday will surely be cut to 12/1 or so unless there are multiple falls. I am hoping it is either Allmankind or Eldorado Allen. 6lb is a bit stingy as a 4yo allowance at this time of year so it might well be EA who will love the uphill finish.
By:
paulo47
When: 04 Dec 20 09:11
Hope it is EA too , merely to pay a compliment to Gumball who was (mostly ) vastly superior last time . For sentimental reasons  Allmankind is acceptable too .
By:
sageform
When: 04 Dec 20 11:57
EA would have taken Gumball up the hill, much as I am a fan of both of them. Gumball barely gets 2 miles.
By:
paulo47
When: 04 Dec 20 16:22
Haha I will just quote Timeform ...' Fortuitous winner ....'
By:
sageform
When: 05 Dec 20 16:20
Still have my 25/1 Arkle bet on Allmankind though. EA, like nearly all of Tizzard's. ran very flat today.
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 09 Dec 20 17:04
elixir reportedly had a setback not sure of the extent  , so have cashed out my bets ,can always go back in if wellbeing confirmed .
By:
miltons sophie
When: 09 Dec 20 19:31
First captain Guinness now ed.... not blessed with luck these two. Hopefully Friday will bring about a change of luck
By:
buddeliea
When: 12 Dec 20 11:46
Luck seems to have changed for Captain Guinness and fingers crossed hes over the heart problem.
Certainly looked ok, that was very impressive to my eye.
Looks a big player for the Arkle
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 18 Dec 20 07:59
having put up elixir  danay i have cashed out that bet with no loss thankfully . a lot of water to pass under the bridge and i was impressed by energumene at gowran , absolutly bolted up and won very easily and looked a usefull one right enough , might not have beaten much but mullins seems to like him and his jumping was very good also breezed up in his only hurdle run also at gowran winning by near 20l ,townend was impressed and said after the last day he would have no problem dropping back to 2m or he could easily go up in trip he has such a relaxed way of galloping .
obviously a risk as to where he ends up but he has an entry over 2m at christmas at leopardstown and a limerick entry on the same day at 2.4 miles he is 5/4 for the 2m gig and 10/1 for the limerick race . he can be backed at 20/1 for the arkle which i have had some of each way .
shishkin a hot fav here but at the prices i would rather take a chance with this fella each way .
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 18 Dec 20 15:12
that was pleasing from allart had a few quid on for the marsh as well each way at 33s ..........decent performance .
By:
FOYLESWAR
When: 18 Dec 20 16:57
as said backed allart for arkle and marsh so naturally hendo will aim him at the rsa .
By:
impossible123
When: 18 Dec 20 21:19
Did Hendo not say Fusil Raffles going for the Marsh? Then again lately it's prudent to take what Hendo says with a big pinch of salt.
By:
buddeliea
When: 19 Dec 20 07:50
Yep FR going Marsh i think.
Hard to say re Allart.
My guess would be Marsh as well if he goes to Cheltenham.
That was very soft yesterday, and he finished the race really well.
All his form is on soft though, it maybe one of those late decisions as to which race.
By:
impossible123
When: 19 Dec 20 13:07
Great value to be had if one opposes Envoi Allen, and hits the jackpot - a contrarian's best wish.
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