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foxy
05 Mar 20 20:52
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Date Joined: 26 Dec 00
| Topic/replies: 12,049 | Blogger: foxy's blog
Matched at 9/2 for supreme novice
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Report FOYLESWAR March 5, 2020 8:02 PM GMT
elliot said theres a big chance envoi goes to supreme as not sure he wants a slog over 2.5 on bad going , or words to that effect
Report foxy March 5, 2020 8:05 PM GMT
That’s correct foyleswar he has said that all along
Report Deptford March 5, 2020 8:20 PM GMT
Trainef said all options open, will walk the course on Saturday and decide, its on RP website.
Report Deptford March 5, 2020 8:21 PM GMT
Trainer
Report foxy March 5, 2020 8:37 PM GMT
So clown on another thread thinks it’s disgusting and something needs to be doneCrazy
Report duffy March 6, 2020 2:19 PM GMT
Under the circumstances a very sensible decision, is fully effective at 2 miles and despite his likely presence in the Ballymore it has not served to scare horses away resulting in the Ballymore being the strongest out of these two races IMO with a few horses in it that look like thorough stayers who'd appreciate a right test at the trip.
Report harry callaghan March 6, 2020 2:25 PM GMT
what makes you say duffy that it looks the stronger of the 2 races when no horse has even won in graded company in the ballymore??
Report duffy March 6, 2020 3:03 PM GMT
I think many of the main protagonists in the Supreme have negatives against them that they have to overcome, whereas many of the main protagonists behind EA in the Ballymore, SJ, TBG, TBB all look like strong contenders who have been highly impressive and may well have won graded races but haven't been given the chance, I think that the Supreme has at least a couple horses that are in the wrong race in AF and CH. I agree that it isn't the strongest purely on the formbook but many of the front runners haven't failed at a higher level they just haven't had the chance, but saying that, SJ did absolutely smash up MD who had been a previous graded winner himself didn't he.

The long standing favourite for the Supreme is only a listed winner isn't he but comparing the English and Irish in terms of measuring graded wins is a bit unfair as the Irish top novices would routinely have run in them, I believe that SJ and TBB would now be graded winners had they been Irish trained, they certainly would have run in them.
Report buddeliea March 6, 2020 3:09 PM GMT
Could not agree more Duffy, you just saved me some time composing a post,much appreciatedLaugh
Report penzance March 6, 2020 3:33 PM GMT
still think this will run in the Ballymore.
If he was Supreme bound he would'nt be @4/1
on here.Looks like the weather may improve
a bit aswell.Took him on in the Supreme as well
as the two in the same ownership.
   GL ALL
Report impossible123 March 10, 2020 8:30 PM GMT
After the run of Abacadabras in the Supreme this beast will be backed (already has) till thy kingdom come (again) tomorrow. The journos and tipsters are opposing him big time; their Irish Banker was Benie Des Dieux (apparently).
Report FOYLESWAR March 11, 2020 11:49 AM GMT
i may need sectioning after this but there may not be much if anything between the irish and english the supreme result may give a hint . envoi may be the 2nd coming but i am taking him on with 3 of the english at massive prices ,mossey fen stays and has decent form and is a game fooka and available at near 100/1 on here and 33s plus w/0 the fav ,son of camas also a massive price and hendo has some decent novices big price w/o fav and a win bet on the big breakaway ............potential big return for peanuts laid out .good luck all .
Report buddeliea March 11, 2020 11:55 AM GMT
Well the form looks strong after yesterday for sure, but worth taking on with horses that may or may not be better than him.
Report sageform March 11, 2020 1:40 PM GMT
Wow, Ireland 123 and the best GB horses beaten 20 lengths.
Report impossible123 March 11, 2020 1:55 PM GMT
I took him on and 'lay' a very small amount to risk manage. But, make no mistake he's a very good horse the further the went.As such, the RSA next year, I'd think as the JLT might be too short; the Gold Cup in 2022 all being well.
Report FOYLESWAR March 11, 2020 2:11 PM GMT
got it wrong there but  if yer gonna get it wrong do it in style ,only a small outlay so minimal damage
Report impossible123 April 6, 2020 4:02 PM BST
Which is his most likely target, the JLT or RSA? He ran in the Neptune over 2m 5f, and his ultimate target is the Gold Cup.
Report foxy April 6, 2020 4:40 PM BST
I would guess the jlt and I wouldn’t completely rule out the champion hurdle.
Report Hibore April 6, 2020 5:25 PM BST
I would lean strongly towards the RSA. The Gold Cup is definitely the long term aim so I can’t really see the point of going Marsh route.
If he was mine I’d go for a couple of 2.5m races and then RSA. Plenty of options at this early stage though.

Regarding the Champion hurdle I’m not so sure. He looked a little outpaced over the ballymore trip until his class and stamina kicked in. Not sure he’s speedy enough for CH unless the ground was very soft.
Report impossible123 April 6, 2020 5:48 PM BST
Using No More Heroes as a guide he ran in the Navan Hurdle over 2m 4f beating Shaneshill, then Albert Bartlett before taking in the RSA; Envoi Allen asserted and ran on after the last in the Neptune. Also, Elliot has Abacadabras who ran Shishkin close in the Supreme.

I'd think the RSA more likely with Abacadabras the JLT. But, I cannot see  Elliot will want Envoi Allen going for the Champion Hurdle given the bad experience with Samcro (I understand different ownership).
Report foxy April 6, 2020 5:53 PM BST
I would be surprised if both went novice chasing especially abracadabras,kicking king went arkle in his novice season as did war of attrition.
Report foxy April 6, 2020 5:59 PM BST
War of attrition started his chase career over 2 m 6f at Thurles kicking king 2 m at punchestown
Report foxy April 6, 2020 6:03 PM BST
Which horse would you say was the more impressive in the ballymore samcro or envoi Allen?
Report Hibore April 6, 2020 6:17 PM BST
Both were impressive but Samcro showed much more natural speed and pace. EA powered home doing his best work at the end of the race.
There aren’t many horses that I can remember that going into the season could be favourite on the day in either Champion Hurdle or RSA Laugh
He’s a special horse that is for certain.
Report impossible123 April 6, 2020 6:27 PM BST
I think Envoi Allen (EA) is more likely for the RSA too the way he ran the Neptune, but the market is no guide either. However, for the Champion Hurdle only 2 horses I'd back at present eg Goshen (but very short at 9/2) and Shishkin (16/1/unlikely runner though).

I'm very surprised Abacadabras is only 8/1 for this. Is he a definite? Or could he go the JLT?
Report foxy April 6, 2020 6:44 PM BST
Thinking back hibore samcro was either at the front of the betting or close to it for those same two races.


Impossible the biggest thing against abracadabras going for the champion hurdle which should be his target is the owners ,they dipped there toes n with samcro and it didn’t work out,they may well wrongly insist on going chasing next season.
Report foxy April 6, 2020 6:50 PM BST
I think time will tell Envoi Allen beat a much stronger field than samcro I know the 2 nd and 3 rd went on to win grade ones at aintree and punchestown and the 5 th won the arkle.
Report Hibore April 6, 2020 6:59 PM BST
It was Samcro your right. 4/1 JLT, 6/1 each for the Champion Hurdle and RSA.
Report foxy April 6, 2020 7:06 PM BST
I was pleased to see him win the jlt this year hopefully he can kick on from that.
Report Hibore April 6, 2020 7:11 PM BST
Where do you think he’ll go next season ? Ryanair seems most likely to me.
Report foxy April 6, 2020 7:21 PM BST
You would think so hibore but the Savils at Christmas would be worth a try then take it from there.possibly start of in the grade 2 clonmel oil in mid November won by douvan this season monalee 3 rd,generally speaking it’s not that a competitive race then up to 3 mile at leopardstown then decide.
Report impossible123 April 6, 2020 7:24 PM BST
I think Samcro would be Ryanair bound too unless something untoward deprives Delta Work of a run in the Blue Riband. I think Samcro needs more experience over fences; jumping against seasoned fencers in the Gold Cup could be step-too-soon next season, I think.

Samcro was much shorter - between 4/1 and 6/1 here - for the JLT; 16/1 and more for the RSA (next season almost identical price fr either race). After the trashing from Faugheen at Limerick he went out to 20 and more here.
Report foxy April 6, 2020 7:35 PM BST
I very much doubt delta works target will influence any decision on samcro gigginstown can never be accused of avoiding each other.
Report irishone June 2, 2020 8:44 AM BST
dont do antepost generally
(mares rock and panic attack side last year)
but taken the 16/1 on here for the champion hurdle
following interesting discussion with farrier this morning
Report Hibore June 3, 2020 10:08 AM BST
What did the farrier say to make you put a tenner on ?
Report Nogoody June 3, 2020 3:02 PM BST
Can't be sure, he had a mouthful of nails.
Report irishone June 3, 2020 6:24 PM BST
Laugh
Report Nogoody June 7, 2020 5:09 PM BST
I stuck him in a little Yankee, Irish,
Envoi 11  CH.hdl.
Abacadabras 17 Arkle
Latest exhibition 17 R.S.A.
Sire due Berlais 16  Stayers.
£1 e.w. accer & 50p Yankee gets me 90 grand.
As I said last year, might as well dream here as in bed.
Report Nogoody June 16, 2020 10:03 AM BST
Sorry for pausing the the thread, my betting brain had been suffering the equivalent of " Blue Balls " since ****. happened, I've since had some relief.
I believe that if the same ,or more likely, a naturally improved Envoi rocks up, he will win any race in which he's entered. Its up to us, as punters, to find, decide or just plain guess which race that will be.
Report impossible123 June 16, 2020 11:07 AM BST
Or take 2/1 for him to win any race. At the moment the market is indicating The JLT as the most likely destination with The RSA 2nd best; Supreme and possibly Champion Hurdle the most unlikely.
Report Nogoody June 21, 2020 3:41 PM BST
2/1, where's the fun in that,Impy ?
Anyway, don't want to tie up my fiver at that price 'till March.ExcitedCool
Report irishone June 22, 2020 1:51 PM BST
I believe that if the same ,or more likely, a naturally improved Envoi rocks up, he will win any race in which he's entered.....  yep thats the impression I get as well
Report Quevega06 June 27, 2020 12:28 AM BST
Irish agreeing with someone.... :-0
Report irishone June 27, 2020 7:57 PM BST
Laugh
Report Hibore June 28, 2020 6:04 PM BST
I think you find he’s agreeing with himself. Crazy
Report Hibore June 28, 2020 6:05 PM BST
* you’ll
Report Nogoody June 28, 2020 6:35 PM BST
Hey,just a minute, I'm not Irish, well I am, but you know what I mean.ExcitedLaugh
Report FOYLESWAR October 29, 2020 8:15 AM GMT
not a market i usually play but for envoi allen fans, slysbet are doing on their nh request a bet specials .........clan des obeux to win this years king george and envoi allen to win any race at the 2021 festival 14/1 ......just saying like .
Report FOYLESWAR October 29, 2020 8:25 AM GMT
envoi could make his chasing debut tommorow at down royal  .
Report impossible123 October 30, 2020 2:54 PM GMT
Would he be odds-on for Cheltenham after today? Or will he bomb big time? If so, back to the drawing board...Champion Hurdle perhaps.
Report FOYLESWAR November 13, 2020 9:33 AM GMT
did as expected jumped well nice intro
Report buddeliea November 29, 2020 2:27 PM GMT
Hes rather good this horse.
Report FOYLESWAR December 13, 2020 12:43 PM GMT
he looks very good and may be a class apart in the novice division but his price dont interest me one bit ,the ballymore form has taken some hits what with the big getaway.big breakaway beaten at short odds ,looking through the ballymore not a lot barring the winner has set the world alight ,shan blue has won a couple of ordinary chases . envoi could be the next arkle /kauto but i will be looking for something at a big price  each way have my eye on one but it has several options arkle rsa and this so will hold fire for now .
Report buddeliea December 13, 2020 2:27 PM GMT
Im taking him on with Protektorat, was very impressed with him lto.
Was hoping Chantry House would be one, but he needs further imo, but his stablemate who won yesterday may be interesting at the odds.
Report harry callaghan December 13, 2020 2:45 PM GMT
Budd just out of interest why do you think chantry house wants further? I disagree tbh
Report buddeliea December 13, 2020 4:19 PM GMT
Just watching the horse harry.
Yesterday to my eye hes going quicker than he wants to, and his jumping suffers because of that.
He was entered over 3m last week,so looks like they are thinking along the same lines.
Not sure why they went 2 and a half in the end, maybe the ground?
Report buddeliea December 13, 2020 4:24 PM GMT
Ive covered for RSA, think thats where he runs at the festival.
Report harry callaghan December 13, 2020 4:42 PM GMT
I had a few quid on him last year for supreme at good odds but just not sure I like him now...might be wrong and that ground at Cheltenham was horrific again so can excuse him that run...early days but I don’t think he’s a 3 miler but not sure he’s a top class 2m4f horse...he’s maybe dare I say a bit tripless

It could be that run came to soon as well yesterday..I’ll be able to make a better judgment next time hopefully but I don’t know why but I don’t particularly like him Plainthat ascot run didn’t particularly float my boat so happy just to watch him at the moment but he isn’t my cup of tea at this stage as an individual

The trainer has been in and out this season so maybe I’m being to harsh but flinteur sacre was a bitter disappointment as well...I’ll just have to see moving forwards from a betting point of view with his horses
Report buddeliea December 14, 2020 7:54 AM GMT
Well hes had 2 novice chase runs, and won 1, so its not as if hes been poor.
I will reserve judgement until i see a couple more runs, and over 3m.
Report GAZO December 14, 2020 8:11 AM GMT
in terms of cheltenham festival races his runs have been poor,his only rival fell on debut just as he looked like he was coming under pressure and the weekends run was very poor whichever way you look at it
Report irishone December 14, 2020 8:17 AM GMT
Appears difficult to handle. Plenty of negatives in his favour, spring horse ? 4 runner tactical race ? Ground ? Henderson's running poor anyway ?

Easy to disregard the odd run this time of year as long as there is a bit of improvement race before festival ?
Report buddeliea December 14, 2020 9:11 AM GMT
Ok, in terms of beating EA in the Marsh Chase, he has been poor, certainly Saturday.

lets see how he gets on when stepped up to 3m.

Irish is correct, easy to disregard the odd run, and hes also right that he has to improve.
I am thinking the step up will see improvement.
Report sageform December 22, 2020 8:19 PM GMT
Not running until January.
Report FOYLESWAR December 22, 2020 9:05 PM GMT
any opinions on allart ? i put him up for the arkle and backed him for the marsh before his novice win last week ,hendo seems a bit wary of bumping into envoi ,he may be a class apart but as the saying goes  never be afraid of one horse ,he may be pegasuss but test him and see what happens ffs .
Report jimnast December 23, 2020 11:19 AM GMT
he never was running until punchestown in january sageform i saw all the experts in the post the other day saying how much they were looking forward to seeing him over christmas.

good to see they are putting plenty of homework in for there opinions.
Report sageform December 24, 2020 12:38 PM GMT
I was just passing on a press report, not suggesting there was anything wrong.
Report jimnast December 24, 2020 12:47 PM GMT
i knew that sageform
Report jimnast January 9, 2021 7:47 AM GMT
runs next sunday elliott confirming the marsh is the only race he is been considered for .
Report impossible123 January 12, 2021 6:29 PM GMT
1/2 on sunday against Asterion Forlonge and friends. But, the ground is heavy at the moment. He's 'evens' for the main gig. Surely value if heavy ground is no impediment.
Report FOYLESWAR January 12, 2021 8:11 PM GMT
if im reading it right think envoi al  will have to give asterion f 11 pound with the grade 1 penalty ,wont be easy imo he could have a race on his hands if both line up .
Report jimnast January 12, 2021 9:08 PM GMT
i hope he keeps out of the way of that lunatic.
Report impossible123 January 13, 2021 11:52 AM GMT
I'd forgotten about the penalty he'll have to carry. And, on heavy ground a watching brief.
Report buddeliea January 15, 2021 6:57 PM GMT
JimLaugh
Report jimnast January 17, 2021 12:53 PM GMT
well at least he cant cause any problems up ok.
Report jimnast January 17, 2021 1:01 PM GMT
pest even as a loose horse.
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