Cheltenham Festival

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12 Feb 15 21:25
Date Joined: 07 May 11
| Topic/replies: 131 | Blogger: charlieptl's blog
Keen to here how people approach the week financially. I am sure there are many who will save throughout the year but do you have an amount you will bet per day? Do you stick to it? Do you bet with winnings or bank them? Do you set yourself max bet rules (for handicaps as an example)?
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Report foolsgold123 February 12, 2015 10:04 PM GMT
Been placing Ante-Post bets on since the end of Chetenham 2014. Just backed the value throughout the year, basically the scatter gun approach but it has worked for me every year. Been hammering Faugheen since he won over 2mile in Ireland so have quite a lump sum of money on him at the minute. Lost ante post already horses like Briar Hill, Al Ferof and More Of That etc but overall I am happy with what I've got.

I always try and take advantage of all the offers different bookies offer, there are usually some really good ones knocking about. Am just a average punter bet in £10's and £20's and now and again lump on one. But Cheltenham I have a good go with a little pot saved up to gamble with plus all the years Ante-Post bets come in to play.

I love Chletenham!!!
Report wellchief February 12, 2015 10:26 PM GMT
I don't have a set limit that I have for the whole festival, but if I do find things getting out on control I do reign it in a bit.

90% of my betting is antepost. I watch all of the Saturday and Sunday racing but very rarely bet on it. I'm all about getting Cheltenham clues and top up tenner bets here and there throughout the year. I prefer that than spending hundreds in one go, and it spreads the cost of the week over about 6 months.

I've got a different strategy this year in that I've gone in bigger on the ones I fancy and will leave a lot of the handicaps alone.  Almost all the money I win is in the Graded races and have a terrible handicap record.

I'll have a go at ones like the Coral Cup, County Hurdle and 3m Chase on Day 1 because I love those, but the likes of the Fred Winter, Kim Muir, Martin Pipe etc don't really interest me.

I have my bets all sorted before the first race and then that's it. Whether I'm up or down I don't start chasing money or getting cocky and doubling up.

Good luck all (especially me)!
Report SEATHESTARS....NO1 February 12, 2015 11:01 PM GMT
Mine is a carbon copy of the above 2 posts. In that 90% of mine is antepost spread throughout the season and any on the day bets are selections not back yet and are bookies offers prices!
My selection process is more so about price and likelyhood of running in said race more than it is form. Although form does come into play it is on a much smaller scale than most as my approach is to seek out profit if possible in each race by backing a lot without going over broke on said event. It means a lot more market study throughout the season and watching said horses run in their preps and trying to 2nd guess where abouts in the market they will be in March etc. Before Xmas its all about the King George and i often have that market up 24 hours a day from about 2 weeks prior to betfair chase day at haydock on one tab, the coming antepost market on another tab and just fleeting glances at the cheltenham championship markets as and when i read this forum. After the bf chase at haddock the kg is up 24 hours on one tab until about 2 wks before that then I open another 2 tabs and put in the chelt championship races and flick between the two. As soon as kg is finished 4 tabs are opened with the 4 championship races on them and they are constantly monitored either by me or the wife. I also have friends whom also monitor them and send me text messages on any poss developing gambles.

it may sound a little obsessive but its fine i enjoy it. Although i do the above, i am useless at trading on here day to day. If i ever fooken back one or lay it it always seems to go the other way and i lose. Thats why i never play, or try not to play anyways. Though i every now and again do play the big saturday handicap if the market seems a little wrong.
Report gravy February 12, 2015 11:10 PM GMT
I'm same as you wellchief.
Build a book through the winter and, although it's false economy, I treat it as money not spent when I get there if you know what I mean.
For example, instead of getting a curry one Saturday night, I'll skip it and have two ante-post tenners, so in my warped mind, it's money I'd have blown on crap anyway.
My wages are gone at the end of the month anyway, so I look at it as freebees.
I've been fortunate in the past that I won about £2,000 eight years ago.
I put it in a tin at my dads away from the wife and he doesn't let me near it until Cheltenham week.
I collect it on way down on the Monday and, coupled with the ante-post book, I try to claw it back each year.
I've managed to do so for each year since.
If you looked at my actual profit and loss with the ante-post book included, it might only be a small win, but as I've written off the ante dosh and I'm using eight-year old money, I see anything I get as a return back as profit.
Over six months, I might bet £500 and then the two grand when I get there, but if I walk out on Friday with £2500 in returns, I count that as £2500 profit.
I then put the £2000 back in dads tin and the process starts again.
I know it's false figures, but it feels like I'm winning money when I haven't spent any of my own.
It's all in the mind innit.
I don't hit a cash point at any point through the meeting, so walking out with cash in my accounts/pocket feels like I've won, even though it's maybe not if you count what I've spent ante-post and with my eight-year-old dough.
One year I'll have a total disaster and get virtually nowt back, so although I won't feel skint by Friday night, I'll have hee-haw to travel with the following year.
But fingers crossed I can keep this process going until I cark it!
Good luck.
Report Mr Eboue February 12, 2015 11:21 PM GMT
Whereabouts does your old man live?

Report Roger The Butler February 12, 2015 11:23 PM GMT
12 Feb 15 23:10 
For example, instead of getting a curry one Saturday night, I'll skip it and have two ante-post tenners, so in my warped mind, it's money I'd have blown on crap anyway.

In fact, you're probably effectively up on the deal rather than breaking even - think of the extra money you'd have shelled out on bog roll and moisturising cream for your ringpiece if you'd opted for the curry.
Report gravy February 12, 2015 11:26 PM GMT
Haha. Seriously Mr Eboue, a draft couldn't get into where he hides it!
Bad health at the age of 70 prevents him from travelling with me these days, but he retains the values from his days of heading south of the border armed with a wedge and knows the importance of a man having a tank to park on the lawn.
My oven blew up and I was skint, so asked for £300 out of ten tin to buy a new one and he me to f**k off.
Said I'd replace it and he still said it only opens for Festival week.
Kids haven't had a pizza in eight months, haha.
Report gravy February 12, 2015 11:28 PM GMT
Roger, given the curry hoose at my place, I use the wife's hair dryer or a hot feather from inside the duvet to da my a**e, haha
Report gravy February 12, 2015 11:30 PM GMT
Sadly, my Vautour Arkle and Valseur Lido RSA tickets can be used for a**e wiping this weekend
Report delsie777 February 12, 2015 11:58 PM GMT
I think we all have a similar strategy - trying to get on our fancies at decent prices antepost. For me, that's the fun of gambling. The idea is to get a step ahead - get that price that others would kill for on the day. Where's the skill in shovelling money on Un De Seaux at 1/2? Those who backed him at 6/1 or better have every right to feel pleased with themselves. Likewise the Faugheen followers with fancy prices. Of course, this strategy leads to the odd blowout too - but if you punt this way, the good score makes the blowouts fade into the distance. Personally, I try to single out horses to focus on and punt them at big prices in the hope I hit the target with a couple. Hopefully one goes in on Day 1 and that gives me a bank to mess about with for the handicaps etc. This year I have concentrated on Douvan and L'Ami Serge in The Supreme - both at 12/1, Josses Hill in The Arkle (whoops!) Faugheen (7/1 and 6/1)and Arctic Fire E/W (50/1 and 33/1)in The Champion and Hargam in The Triumph at 20/1 downwards. Any one of these will make my week. I also enjoy taking a few risks taking in the possibility of connections changing their minds - Annie Power in the Stayers, Vautour in The Arkle - that sort of thing. Obviously, they will probably be losers but should there be a late change of plan or circumstances, Annie won't be 50/1 and Vautour won't be 28/1
Report zilzal1 February 12, 2015 11:58 PM GMT
1. Dont vary your Stake too much, ignore anything under around 4-1 at the place, everything is trying for its life here, you wont get resticted by bookmakers, so its a time for value

2. If you have no opinion on a race or find it too hard then its not compulsory to back in it

3. If you've narrowed a hcap down to three 25-1 shots, shoot for the stars..dont limit what you can win..only what you lose

4. No good in having a £5 on a 20-1 winner and £150 on a 2-1 would want shooting afterwards

5. Enjoy it
Report stevo1 February 13, 2015 12:02 AM GMT
Zilzal,you wont get restricted unless its Spoilsports,wont take
a bet re nr no bet on novices today,fickin joke outfit a/c closed lol.
Report stevo1 February 13, 2015 12:09 AM GMT
Started backing ante-post back in October,few bets a month most looking really good,some gone like Vautour in Arkle.
Outlay of around 1k so far,no more ante-posts until nr no bet.
Wont be with Spoilsports as they wont lay a bet.
Cant wait now,best week of year enjoy all.
Report brassneck February 13, 2015 12:11 AM GMT
Bankroll not needed this year due to the fixtures.
1 back Annie on day 1 to win the mares over the phone with bookie.
2.ring back bookie when she wins and tell him to put all the profits on Annie to come out 2 days later to win WORLD Hurdle.
3 collect handsome profit.
4 thank Brass for information.Cool
Report bonnie February 13, 2015 6:15 AM GMT
very little ante post activity.
cover about 10 races with PP on Monday afternoon at enhanced prices, £100 per race
handicap bets done in laddies on morning of the race, enhanced places
anything else will be bet on course, stakes depending on how the week is going and how much alcohol consumed
bet every race

good luck and enjoy
Report rogerthebutler February 13, 2015 10:11 AM GMT
Experience has shown that Tuesday and Wednesday are bad days for me, Thursday and Friday are good (probably due to the increased number of handicaps on those days) so my wedge is punted accordingly, with backend loading of staking
Report SEATHESTARS....NO1 February 13, 2015 11:24 AM GMT
I don't know why that surprises me rogerthebutler but it does. Tuesday and Weds are by far and away my most lucrative days. Partly due to the number of graded races and bookie offers on them days, Thurs i always lose a bit and on the Friday i usually get my losses from the Thurs back so on average down the years if i stopped punting after the bumper (which i am yet to back the winner ofCry) i would be no better off!

My strategy this year is TO NOT TOUCH THE BUMPER WITH A PROVERBIAL BARGE POLE but we all know that rule will go out the window. It will just be a couple quid on a couple each way see how it goes cos i will end up looking at it and will pick a few out and what if one of them wins and about the past etc how annoyed would i be having never to have picked the winner and this time i have and never backed it. Hate that race! Crazy
Report rogerthebutler February 13, 2015 11:36 AM GMT

It's because I generally do well in the handicap - always have - and with them being loaded more to the Thursday and Friday (I don't do the Novices H'Cap chase on the Tuesday either), well, there you go!

I am now at the stage where I'm rigidly disciplined to either not punt or minimal stakes on the bulk of Tuesday and Wenesday's graded races, which is probably anathema to many who view tapes up in the Supreme as the cue to start shovelling money on left right and centre but it works for me.

I'm probably the only bugger in the place who looks forward to the Martin Pipe Conditionals race as much as The Gold Cup!! :)
Report wellchief February 13, 2015 11:47 AM GMT
I'm too lazy to spend hours on the handicaps.  I know all the form of all the Grade 1 races in my head, whereas the handicaps I'd have to spend hours doing research just for one race.

If there were only three or four then I'd put the effort but not enough time to go through them all.  That's why this year I'm sticking to just the Coral Cup, County Hurdle and 3m chase on day 1.
Report tomdeane February 13, 2015 12:28 PM GMT
I'm like Sea and not like Roger - Tuesday and Wednesday are invariably good days but Friday is a nightmare for me normally...

I approach things a bit differently to most it seems - I try to back a good number ante-post but for trading purposes only. I try to nick five or six points and then lay back for my stake so that when it works I have two running for me in a race as free bets that would net me a nice return.

But then I bet about a grand throughout the week on day-of-race bets, which are just bets and not trades. I will also trade some of the handicaps overnight though - sometimes you can nick a good few points on horses with a bit of pre-planning and of course a bit of luck!

Zilzal's piece of advice about not having a fiver on a 20-1 winner and 150 on a 2-1 loser is very good. Never be put off one you fancy because it's a big price. I'll probably fall foul of the aftertiming stewards here, and rightly so, but I don't care! I really fancied Golden Chieftain a few years back but wanted to keep cash in my pockets for drinks and taxis after racing and his price put me off having a proper go. If I'd had my normal bet on him it would have just about paid for my week but instead I wimped out and had a little bet on the place market. Never have I been so upset to have backed a winner.... Lesson learned. I hope...
Report Swardean February 13, 2015 12:50 PM GMT
Used the love the antepost game, and always a lovely warm feeling sitting on a 33/1 ticket throughout winter for Cheltenham horse that is now 4/1.

However, from a financial perspective I think this it is now poor value.   For every time you have a live one, you will have horses that disappoint, get injured, take a different route.   Even if you get to the race (which is a bonus), obviously still no guarantees.

My betting these days, is hugely influenced by ground and stable form, so tend to stick to day of race betting, for guaranteed run, with optimum conditions.   

Not knocking anyone who still plays this way, and as stated there is something special about latching on to one early in the season, but now it very rare for me.   Perhaps some recent disappointment have put me off.  Darlan for example.

In terms of betting bank, will be oncourse on Tues, Weds, so will likely be playing around £100 per race in non handicaps and £50 in hcaps (unless I really fancy one).   Stake probably remain static unless I am winning, thn I may increase stakes.

Although I am pretty selective through the year in terms of races I bet on, I will pretty much bet in every Chelt race.   For me it is not necessary about the making of money.   this is my holiday and I want to enjoy it.
Report tomdeane February 13, 2015 1:09 PM GMT
Just wanted to say I echo those sentiments re ante-post value, swardean - that's why I switched to a trading policy for ante-post (always back to lay).

For me the most frustrating thing is finding one at say 33-1, have it get to the meeting and be 4-1 the week before, and then have a deluge of rain or something like that give it a hopeless task. It's tough enough anyway with injuries, missed targets etc, and now that it's harder to get on at big prices on here and with bookies being quite generous with their offers in the day-of markets, or in the fortnight building up to Cheltenham, I have cut back my outright ante-post bets considerably.
Report Rathgorman82 February 13, 2015 2:14 PM GMT
Have gradually increased by Ante-Post book year on year until this year. Last year I went there with the thick end of three grand down in advance. Thanks to Vautour (12s down), Holywell (14s), Quevega and Present View (16s), barring doing something stupid during the rest of the week, I was in profit after Present View Crossed the line. Wednesday was good again thanks to Faugheen and SDG, Thurs an even day but leading into Friday I had all-sorts of tasty doubles etc running onto the likes of Bobsworth, Briar Hill and Next Sensation. The day was one big let down and despite me finishing the week well over two grand in profit it was a bit of an anti-climax.
The previous year again I had a good chunk down, Hurricane Fly at 6/1 downwards and Bobsworth 5/1 downwards central to everything. Good first two days, poor Thursday and Friday was an absolute bonanza, think I was on 6 out of 7 winners including Alderwood at 12/1 down.

All the above are the good bits, however, there's the sickeners when you get a non-runner. Simonsig for the supreme sticks in the memory at 16s Whoops or you've mistakenly backed in the wrong race by not paying attention and kick yourself stupid (Grand Crus for the JLT!).

My on the day strategy is hopefully to have all bases covered for the main selections, then armed with a wallet full of tenners, loiter around the tote window before some of the handicaps find some 20/1-33/1 shots that are a good 10pts over the odds. I landed a nice bonus with Medinas the other year and I've landed on a good few long priced winners such as Your Special in the Kim Muir.

This year I've scaled back having spent a good deal of the punting bank, will be going there with about £1200-£1500 max laid out and about £300 to play on the Tote. I don't think I've been down into the ring for at least two years, simply no value in betting with the boards, if you have to there's more value with the firms due to BOG, by whichever method possible.
Report charlieptl February 13, 2015 3:41 PM GMT
Im not really an ante-post better, been stung with injuries and non-runners too many times. Don't get me wrong, I will have a couple of quadruples and trebles but nothing more than £100 or so.

I will typically bet £100 - £200 a race on non handicaps and cap it at £50 for handicaps (unless I am very confident)

Think zilzal1 is spot on about there being no point in having a £5 on a 20-1 winner and £150 on a 2-1 loser. I have let myself down in previous years through doing this but not this year. Few things more frustrating.

Won £4-£500 on the first race of every day of the fesitval last year which set me up well for each day. Typically do very well on Tuesday and Wednesday and then do my bollocks on Thursday and Friday. Horrific record in the handicaps which I plan to rectify through hours of research and form analysis!
Report 1st time poster February 13, 2015 4:02 PM GMT
if lots of the winners are spread between the top trainers where are these 33 to 1 shot vouchers that everyones got tucked away, lots of the above are just lists of mullins horses which have never been 33,s and who was laying annie power at 50,s
Report Rathgorman82 February 13, 2015 4:05 PM GMT
Don't be a cynic 1st TP Wink
Report 1st time poster February 13, 2015 4:11 PM GMT
ok someone might have tasty prices on
road to riches
dodging bullets
Report zilzal1 February 13, 2015 4:11 PM GMT
Two bets so far... Ballynagour 33s (still there) Ryanair and Holywell 14s Gold Cup.... Pondering and waiting over ground/Prices Court Minstrel(w/o UDS)The Young Master(RSA).. and then theres the hcapsCool
Report delsie777 February 13, 2015 5:22 PM GMT
Annie's been laid at 100's on here I think mate
Report deadmurph5 February 13, 2015 5:44 PM GMT
I like to make sure I get through the week so that means lots of antepost, lots of antepost multiples (doubles, trebles, and always a 50p Goliath on 8 in the big races)

Then basically on day one, get as much on as I can (but keep a few hundred back) and day 1 will either set me up for a monster week, or the rest of the week will be steady away. Day 1 success/failure dictates the rest of my week.

I like the antepost multis so that if I do go potless, hopefully one of those will cop (I have bets settling on the wednesday,thursday & the friday) to get me back in the game.

Always give myself a chance of a big win with a few hundred on one at 20s+ usually this is an antepost horse I've topped up on throughout the year.
Report Swardean February 13, 2015 9:17 PM GMT
I remember the dark days as a student, when the funds were limited, when saved a pot for cheltenham, and lost it over the first couple of days.   If yow had a winner after that with token stakes, I actually wanted it to lose, rather than the pain of winning with nothing on it.
Report Tory February 13, 2015 10:52 PM GMT
I echo the sentiments of swardean. I'll prob have £1k - £1.5k down ante post and then have a float of circa £1k.

I go tues and wed so all bets are heavily biased towards those days but for me, chelt is a holiday and time to have some fun, let my hair down and enjoy it.

Accommodation, train, tickets and beer normally comes to around £600 for the week and if I can cover that with betting of profit (have done so the 4yrs I've been going) I count it as a decent week.
Report Rathgorman82 February 14, 2015 1:19 AM GMT
Sounds like none of us lose Cool
I've been going 24 years,  the pre internet era was difficult added to being young and lowly paid was not conducive to turning a decentn profit. Since 2003 my only losing year has been 2010, Dunguib got me off on the wrong foot and it was a bad one all the way to Kauto falling. Sam TD on B By Run gave me a rare winner and for the only time ever we left before the end.
Vowed never to repeat the feeling of that week!
Report onehundredandeighty February 14, 2015 6:50 AM GMT
24 years for me as well make me feel old now....well until this week comes around again.
I've always had small stakes for ante post for all the reasons mentioned above.There are obvious reasons for the for and against debate with ante post but you just have to do what you feel is right and not be pressured into things you may feel uncomfortable with.Blimey if you read every thread some people have all the present jollies at 33s 50s and 200s+.Im not knocking the genuine guys as some have decent ap prices and good luck to them.Me personally prefer to pile into my fancies once the nrnb comes out,mind you,this year strangely enough i have more fancies to lay then back so alot of my punting is going to be done on the day by the looks of it.On the day prices with the big firms are very much not to different to what they are now and of course they climb over themselves to give some price boosts which in most cases are bigger then they have been in the ap market for 6 weeks and beyond.Anyhow enough of my rambling,be it ap on the day or however you choose to bet at the festival,if you get the buzz off it like i still do then you're in for a cracking week,good luck all Happy
Report 1st time poster February 14, 2015 1:21 PM GMT
just a thought but i think 1 punter has had one ,losing year in the last 10 on here the rest have cleaned up,thats over and upto 20 years of going,if your that good and the timetable says you are why arnt you doubling,trebling your stakes plus as siad you,ve all got 20,33,s for the favs,you owe the bookies a drink for turning up, Wink,
ps if you go into town for a drink theres a 2 week holiday in the sun for anyone talking to someone who,s backed a few winners,
the betfair doesnt have losers mantra reigns on, Laugh
Report .Fidway. February 14, 2015 1:58 PM GMT
i lost last year but dont plan to lose this year
Report 1st time poster February 14, 2015 2:08 PM GMT
if your backing in most races i think you need to find at least 2 or 3 of the handicap winners during the week to have a nice week,
Report rogerthebutler February 14, 2015 5:54 PM GMT
I lose badly one year

Win my money back two years

Win my money, accommodation, petrol, beer and food two years

Win bigtime one year

....on average.

Last year was a very bad year.
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! February 22, 2015 8:57 PM GMT
What struck me reading this fred were the number of people
following the same strategy as me
Especially Well Chief
Graded races only, avoiding handicaps apart from the getting out race
Which used to be the county hurdle

Well Chief

Did you watch the film "Twins"?
I seem to be attached
Im more the taller person!!!


Pity we differ on one of the best 2 mile chaser
Report corporal February 22, 2015 9:19 PM GMT
I've been a lot less active in the AP market than in previous years, especially on here so won't be doing any trading. AP generally for me this season has been a disaster. This year's plan has been to play a little in the championship races where something caught my eye, play a few small stakes multiples and try to leave the rest to final decs or when the bookies play concessions. Used to play AP when NRNB hit on the handicaps or novices races, but invariably I found I can get a better price on majority and/or get BOG if I leave to final decs. 95% of bets will be on night before / morning, leaving a few tenners to go on outsiders on the tote at decent prices when I go Tues/Weds.
Report charlieptl February 22, 2015 9:34 PM GMT
I'm not making the mistakes I made last year. What's the point of putting £100 of Dodging Bullets @ 4/1 and then £10 on a horse in a handicap @ 33/1. If I fancy both strongly then I am not being put off by price!
Report wellchief February 22, 2015 10:26 PM GMT
ImSoLuckyLucky! 22 Feb 15 20:57 Joined: 31 Dec 04 | Topic/replies: 3,924 | Blogger: ImSoLuckyLucky!'s blog
What struck me reading this fred were the number of people
following the same strategy as me
Especially Well Chief
Graded races only, avoiding handicaps apart from the getting out race
Which used to be the county hurdle

Well Chief

Did you watch the film "Twins"?
I seem to be attached
Im more the taller person!!!


Pity we differ on one of the best 2 mile chaser

I don't mind being the short arse if we become millionaires like them in the end ExcitedLaugh
Report ZEALOT February 22, 2015 11:32 PM GMT
back every horse to win £100
Report liberator of the oppressed February 23, 2015 6:29 AM GMT
I bet ante post quite big topping up weekly starting just after previous years race and only on the four big ones. Mostly CHH and QM because there are only eight to jump. See it as the Olympics and favourites usually win or are there abouts. Have a 33/1 winner (Kaymer US Open) on Faugheen at 6/1 and Conti £50 ew at 20/1 with Jokers. Plus lots of others. Won well last year however Holywell at 20/1 with Lads saved me. Will not be having many biggish bets in handicaps they are just too hard. Worst ever bet Fly at 10/1 to £200.00 and 8/1 to £100.00 when it didn't run. Will trade Faugheen out so at least win a wodge when Ruby picks it. Am on Sire for a couple hundred and Jonjo's in the World but more of that laterExcited.Ryanair was Dynaste.
Report Fallen Angel February 23, 2015 10:34 AM GMT
the best advice I saw on here was that if you don't have an opinion on a race then leave it alone. The markets are fairly mature by the day of the race so you really have to have a strong view to have a bet. Avoiding lumping on short priced doubles and trebles on the day of the race markets as odds on shots have a fairly awful record at Cheltenham compared to their prices probably due to the extremely competitive nature of the races.
Report duffy February 23, 2015 4:54 PM GMT
I have an extremely strict staking plan that I stick rigidly to right up to the point where I start this point in proceedings I have another strict staking plan that involves chasing like mad and betting left right and centre that again,I stick rigidly too.
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