New Posts For Thread: The Legend of Sea Pigeonhttps://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/30216409/the-legend-of-sea-pigeonAs Hurricane Fly prepares to bid to achieve the rare feat of winning three Champion Hurdles, and further press his claims to equine immortality, I thought, for those interested in such things, I'd dust down an old form book and relate some often overTimeform is a long way from infallible and I'd refer to the main thrust of my argument, i.e. that Sea Pigeon showed himself comfortably superior to Monksfield when the Champion Hurdle distance was reduced to two miles and probably to all others. It whttps://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/30216409/the-legend-of-sea-pigeon?post_id=543801199#543801199Timeform is a long way from infallible and I'd refer to the main thrust of my argument, i.e. that Sea Pigeon showed himself comfortably superior to Monksfield when the Champion Hurdle distance was reduced to two miles and probably to all others. It wWed, 04 Mar 2015 17:11:36 -0600Yes but their views in the book were based on Timeform ratings which trainers/owners use themselves as an reliable independent source. Also when Morris and Randall wrote the book Istabraq had yet to perform at the highest level, otherwise he would'vehttps://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/30216409/the-legend-of-sea-pigeon?post_id=543796123#543796123Yes but their views in the book were based on Timeform ratings which trainers/owners use themselves as an reliable independent source. Also when Morris and Randall wrote the book Istabraq had yet to perform at the highest level, otherwise he would'veWed, 04 Mar 2015 11:05:26 -0600All views as to the merits of racehorses are subjective. Whose views you give weight to are as well. My point is that Walwyn/Winter were far better placed to assess these merits than the two characters cited.https://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/30216409/the-legend-of-sea-pigeon?post_id=543795221#543795221All views as to the merits of racehorses are subjective. Whose views you give weight to are as well. My point is that Walwyn/Winter were far better placed to assess these merits than the two characters cited.Wed, 04 Mar 2015 09:46:42 -0600of course they commend respect but that's why there's an referee in football with an objective view, the players/trainers won't ever be able to judge things on their merit because they'll mix their subjectiveness with reasoning.https://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/30216409/the-legend-of-sea-pigeon?post_id=543794651#543794651of course they commend respect but that's why there's an referee in football with an objective view, the players/trainers won't ever be able to judge things on their merit because they'll mix their subjectiveness with reasoning.Wed, 04 Mar 2015 08:46:30 -0600Depends who the assessor is.But when those trainers are assessing a horse to whom one of them could have put up a rival (Bula) then I see no reason why that view does not merit respect, particularly when Walwyn and Winter were the outstanding trainerhttps://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/30216409/the-legend-of-sea-pigeon?post_id=543794601#543794601Depends who the assessor is.But when those trainers are assessing a horse to whom one of them could have put up a rival (Bula) then I see no reason why that view does not merit respect, particularly when Walwyn and Winter were the outstanding trainerWed, 04 Mar 2015 08:39:19 -0600I'd take the opinions of an independent assessor any day before a jockey/trainer which opinions are almost always subjective.https://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/30216409/the-legend-of-sea-pigeon?post_id=543794269#543794269I'd take the opinions of an independent assessor any day before a jockey/trainer which opinions are almost always subjective.Wed, 04 Mar 2015 08:10:22 -0600loper, I don't think Tony Morris has ever seen a jump race and Randall is a strange bookworm. The opinions of Walwyn and Winter hold just a little more weight in my view.https://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/30216409/the-legend-of-sea-pigeon?post_id=543793817#543793817loper, I don't think Tony Morris has ever seen a jump race and Randall is a strange bookworm. The opinions of Walwyn and Winter hold just a little more weight in my view.Wed, 04 Mar 2015 07:38:45 -0600Le Moss had won the Queens Vase @ Ascot as a 3yr old on his previous outing and received lumps of weight due to the wfa scale which favour 3 yr olds over longer trips in mid summer.I think the trip was 1m 7f lucky for Le Moss it wasnt a furlong shorthttps://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/30216409/the-legend-of-sea-pigeon?post_id=543743215#543743215Le Moss had won the Queens Vase @ Ascot as a 3yr old on his previous outing and received lumps of weight due to the wfa scale which favour 3 yr olds over longer trips in mid summer.I think the trip was 1m 7f lucky for Le Moss it wasnt a furlong shortSat, 28 Feb 2015 08:05:49 -0600He gave Le Moss 27 pounds and just got beat ????????how come he was rated so much higher than this multi Gold Cup winner ....and three times victor over the awesome Ardross .I take it Le Moss was a work in progress.https://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/30216409/the-legend-of-sea-pigeon?post_id=543742303#543742303He gave Le Moss 27 pounds and just got beat ????????how come he was rated so much higher than this multi Gold Cup winner ....and three times victor over the awesome Ardross .I take it Le Moss was a work in progress.Sat, 28 Feb 2015 06:50:29 -0600In their book A Century of Champions, John Randall and Tony Morris ranked Sea Pigeon the tenth best British or Irish hurdler of the 20th century.Great memories.https://community.betfair.com/cheltenham2011/go/thread/view/113609/30216409/the-legend-of-sea-pigeon?post_id=543741349#543741349In their book A Century of Champions, John Randall and Tony Morris ranked Sea Pigeon the tenth best British or Irish hurdler of the 20th century.Great memories.Sat, 28 Feb 2015 05:07:14 -0600