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21 Feb 11 20:53
Date Joined: 11 Mar 06
| Topic/replies: 3,650 | Blogger: jmc27's blog
What is the forum thoughts on this lad now.
Plenty of winners but it looks like no super stars for next year.
Also how much of GW's book did he get?

Pause Switch to Standard View Holy Roman Emperor
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Report Prima Donna February 24, 2011 8:23 PM GMT
You do Pot do!!Grin
Report topfarrier February 25, 2011 9:44 AM GMT
Possible to get him at 6k now Prima.
Report topfarrier February 25, 2011 9:46 AM GMT
5K if you send a couple!
Report bobbylemoko February 25, 2011 11:20 AM GMT
Coolmore have a 2yo registered this year called Amira's Prince, by the Darley stallion Teofilo. Have they backed down?
Report February 25, 2011 11:45 AM GMT
This colt is down as having sold to Mohammed Kazem Alansari at Tattersalls Book 1 October Yearling Sale, the naming would suggest Arabic ownership.
Report bobbylemoko February 25, 2011 1:10 PM GMT
Indeed. And the co-owner according to HRI is one Mrs. J. Magnier!
Report Prima Donna February 25, 2011 1:17 PM GMT
Well topfarrier shall I assume you have sent him at least one this year?Standing him for just 6k could seem a very attractive prospect,but to me it says more about the lack of confidence Coolmore have in him.He would make a sire who perhaps with a COLT would warrant a trip over to Doncaster for the St.Leger sales.But I'd be very aware at 6k most likely he wont be around to hear the happy news he has another child unless you don't mind ringing a far flung hot country way out east.
5k for a them 4k for 2!
Report yer ma February 25, 2011 2:04 PM GMT
10k for two, I'm dubious to say the least.  Thats 1/7th the fee of 2008 and 1/5th the 2010 median.  Why would they do that? Thats fire sale stuff
Report potentialmillionaire February 25, 2011 2:32 PM GMT
If his record last year sums him up accurately, which we won't know until this year is out of the way, then I imagine he will be quite dependable at that job as he has stamped the aptitude of his own 2yo season pretty reliabley.

If you compare him to the established 2yo sires from Acclamation downwards then there is a strong case for calling him great value at these prices quoted.

Ofcourse, his biggest enemy at the moment is market perception, that's the hardest thing to call right now.
Report jmc27 February 25, 2011 4:52 PM GMT
Cheers for the answers I asked the question because i was just curious.
The female side of the family has some exceptional US/Canadian blood, Champion/Grp1 3 year olds and Champion/Grop1 producers. Im no breeding expert but could it be possible that because of the way HRE was raced people are presuming 2yr old if he starts getting 3 year old winners could it be worth the gamble at the moment, especially on a filly?

@Bobbylemoko With no money here Coolmore are gone after Arabs with the real money :p So they seem to be setting their sights on Qatar. Mohammed Kazem Alansari bought Beethoven off them and a few others and when Joshua Tree won in Canada ODonoghue was going hell for leather doing the pr nattering on about Khalifa Bin Hamad Al Attiyah and the rest of them been the new upcoming force in racing.
Report potentialmillionaire February 25, 2011 6:17 PM GMT
It's possible your HRE scenario jmc27. I wouldn't like to say how likely it is though!
Report Prima Donna February 25, 2011 6:33 PM GMT
The biggest problem HRE faces is the perception of him not living up to expectations,too many people have been stung with this sire.However many minor winners he gets now the fact remains he has NOT done the job expected of him which was to get stakes 2 y'olds.
Its very hard for a stallion to turn peoples negative views around and redeem himself.HRE faces very much an uphill battle if he wants to do this,the bloodstock world takes no prisoners and has a very short memory,connections of this stallion know this only to well.
Report Posh Paddy February 26, 2011 9:42 AM GMT
I think HRE's fee is ridiculous especially when compared with Kodiac who's first book of mares would probably not have been as good.  HRE should be 4K tops.
Report Prima Donna February 26, 2011 11:18 AM GMT
Good point, The fact is Kodiac's first book defiantly did not have anything like the quality that HRE received just rubber stamps how badly HRE has done.I wonder how successful Kodiac could be if he was sent mares that HRE had?
Report potentialmillionaire February 26, 2011 2:04 PM GMT
Add to the conundrum mind, that Kodiac would  definitely have got cheap speed mares that may well have proved entirely compatible with his aspirations. Holy Roman's mares included plenty that may have got in the way of a 'stakes 2yolds' head start

If a stallion needs good mares to help his case (and in my opinion many sires, and mares for that matter do what they are destined to do regardless)then those mares will bring something to the mix that may not suit the stallion atall.

When you cover the book sizes that these two have, there has to be a strong possibility that they will cover some decent ones however unpromising the overall quality looks at the outset (Kodiac) and therefore this 1st crop will be a pretty accurate showing. IE. Kodiac may very well be where he belongs already (useful not great) and HRE is in a pretty similar spot but arriving from a different direction! (ofcourse HRE's mares allow some scope for improvement with his 3yo's)
Report jonjon February 27, 2011 9:25 PM GMT
They will sell HRE to a different stud for a knockdown price and then 2 weeks later along will come a group 1 winning juvenile.

Thats the way it seems to work isnt it?
Report RipVanWinkle April 11, 2011 1:03 PM BST
Finally a group winner for HRE he has certainly not lived upto his billing but did have plenty of winners last season but lacked the group horses. He has covered some very good books and did produce alot of winners last season but do people see a future in him for producing group winning progeny. I certainly hope soPlainPlainPlain
Report Prima Donna April 11, 2011 6:25 PM BST
That's a tough one,I think without doubt he has to improve THIS year,his runners poss' will want a trip he may get good 3 y'olds but he will also need to continue getting plenty of 2 y'olds that are stakes winners if he does not manage it THIS year then I think he will be sold off as ATM the jury is out on him,commercial stallions like him in his position are in a way sitting on the fence he could fall either way but imo this year is crucial.Mind you I can't help thinking back a few years when some people were doubting Danehill himself he did spend one season in Japan.
Report potentialmillionaire April 11, 2011 6:50 PM BST
We all hope so Ripvan - well at least until we are all relieved of our interest in the horse [;)]

I've said all along that I didn't necessarily think that precocious 2yo's was his definite fit but as some on here pointed out, to what extent was I coming from a position of desperation? Laugh

Actually, the 4th ran okay at Leapardstown too and I think there will be more smartish ones to come.
But there's no getting away from the fact that he is coming from a place of puzzlement/disappointment and that's a tough climb in this game.

Didn't everyone doubt Danehill at the start Prima? he was a cheapish sire for a good few years and nothing very exciting happened until the better mares came on stream.
But I like your analogy - Let's hope HRE is the new Danehill by September! [;)]
Report Prima Donna April 11, 2011 7:04 PM BST
But I like your analogy - Let's hope HRE is the new Danehill by September!

Its possible perhaps but doubt it really as you point out Danehill had cheap end mares and made it HRE has had good mares from the start the fact is he is struggling no two ways about it!
Report stud farmer April 18, 2011 2:06 PM BST
another good wknd for the holy roman. group3 winner in italy n a nice 2yo winner friday nite. wrs/runners is a very healthy 29percent. he ll still have to sire a gp1 to get any recognistion i persume
Report potentialmillionaire April 18, 2011 6:13 PM BST
You'd have to be encouraged by the start he's made as it all looked so dodgy last year and there are quite a few improvers floating around. I'm not sure what's needed to rebuild trust or indeed what rebuilt trust will look like.

As we always say on here it's just subjective and he looks like he'll be a better sire than many.

Buyers at the sales have an odd set of values though, and cheap speed with no pretensions to class might still be more to their liking.

Time will tell.
Report Prima Donna April 18, 2011 6:37 PM BST
Pot M, is HRE a stallion you would consider sending another one to this or next year?
Report potentialmillionaire April 18, 2011 9:21 PM BST

Right now, I can't think that the 5 or 6k bandied about looks like bad value. After all as you say you've got to take a punt on something. I fully understand that if you've been bitten or are about to be bitten (like me perhaps Cry) then the leap of faith is a bit bigger perhaps!

I do think there is still a chance he could turn out respectabley - on the track more likely than in the ring maybeConfused.
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle April 18, 2011 11:29 PM BST
Imperial Rome looks the stand out of what he has produced so far. His 3yr old crop aside look very average. However i like to judge him after this year 2yr old season to see how he goes before making a rash judgement.

Bolger again doing his bit for HRE....has quite a few 2yr olds by him.
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle April 18, 2011 11:33 PM BST
Woops sorry Bolger has quite a few 2yr olds by HRE nemesis mistake
Report RipVanWinkle April 19, 2011 1:26 PM BST
I'm taken no more punts on this horse for a while, i think we've used him every year so far and his sales returns haven't been bad but the results on the track haven't been the best.
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle May 21, 2011 4:48 PM BST
Good start this year for Holy ROman Emperor.

Imperial Rome looks to be potentially the best of his colts and Bolger again helping out Coolmore with Banipire spelling?...he is up near the top on the sire's list and maybe could have a classic winner the the mentioned bolger filly 2moro
Report jmc27 June 16, 2011 5:35 PM BST
HRE is actually starting to get some momentum behind him.
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle June 18, 2011 2:08 AM BST
He is going well mainly down to the filly but that is one real good horse he has their. Not loads their yet but seems to be a very good winners in Europe for him. Hopefully he keep on the upward curve.
Report potentialmillionaire June 19, 2011 9:15 PM BST
My Propeller.

I've never seen a 2yo win like it, reasonable time too. It'll be fascinating to see if there was any element of fluke there.
Report Prima Donna June 20, 2011 11:11 AM BST
jmc27     16 Jun 11 17:35 
HRE is actually starting to get some momentum behind him. ShockedIs he indeed....where?
Report potentialmillionaire June 20, 2011 7:54 PM BST
Welcome Prima. Are you still a little woozy after Ascot or fully recovered. (impressive if so!)

I notice that HRE is 4th in the 2yo sire list and 8th in the general list. The latter is respectable enough - certainly as the next 2nd season sire Iffraaj is 47th or so! The Noseda colt and the Chapple Hyam filly look potentially much better than his 1st crop juveniles so I think there is definite progress. - I'm certainly a bit happier but we could always do with more[:p].

Any Ascot gossip?
Report Prima Donna June 20, 2011 9:01 PM BST
Good evening Pot M,
Yes I'm recovered enough to send you this post,Ascot was great last week you must of been watching on the telly I guess did you see me waving?Well HRE has improved from last year but he needs to much better again if us breeders will take a chance on him with a half decent mare again.Didn't that Firebreak filly run well in the Queen Mary, Slick was shouting "come on she's gunna do it"another ten yards she may of done it,she looks a nice prospect for her owners we wish them the best of luck.Had a drink with Sir Henry he is remarkable,Frankle is a super looking colt but from what we witnessed last week if and when he meets Canford Cliffs reckon CC will take his scalp,he too is a great looking colt.
Report potentialmillionaire June 20, 2011 9:48 PM BST
Yes indeed, the Firebreak filly did look great and although the fillies finished quite close up I didn't think they looked a bad bunch. I can't decide on MarkofEsteem as a broodmare sire, he has certainly had some great results, but is that because of the £30k fee covered mares at the off?

I'm a Frankel man through and through. But they need to get the riding sorted. I wonder how much Ridingbootgate affected Goldi! I think Canford could be vulnerable as he isn't tactically the most versatile perhaps, but Frankel could be a sitting duck or could be too far infront to care. Mouthwatering. . .

Thanks for the wave, grateful I'm sure Confused. I thought some of your waistcoats a little dubious and did you really need to jump up and down behind Clare and Willie to get on the telly between every race? Laugh
Report redbait June 21, 2011 11:15 AM BST
Here's a question. How can I find detailed broodmare sire stats? For example, if I wanted to see all of the horses that have Mark Of Esteem as their broodmare sire, with a view to evaluating what sires were crossing best with MOE mares, how could I do this?
Report Littleun2 June 21, 2011 4:07 PM BST
I was cheering on the Firebreak filly.  I cant imagine many mares in foal to him this year, was back to thinking I made right decision again.  Do you think Darley has him up for sale?

I can only dream of choosing between Frankel and Canford Cliffs
Report jmc27 July 17, 2011 4:56 PM BST
I know many on here dont agree but he is certainly doing better than some of the great hopes of last years first crop table
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle July 17, 2011 7:41 PM BST
Your so right JMC...he is flying up the table and another 80 odd k to add after today. No way you would have thought he was a top 10 sire after last year's 2yr old crop. He may be able to sneak in the Top 5 who knows?.

Delighted as he was one of my favorite racehorse's.Blush
Report potentialmillionaire July 17, 2011 8:25 PM BST
Vested interest alert! ! !

Top 10 with only 2 crops to represent is most satisfactory. Surely now it's getting to a stage where the nice ones should sell. Still a way to go perhaps for him to score a universally  high desirability rating but who knows.

I still think My Propeller on fast ground will be a force to be reckoned with.
Report DMCK July 17, 2011 10:09 PM BST
would anyone know the rough figure for his book size this year?
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle July 18, 2011 7:41 PM BST
They didn't seem to sell very well last year. And Coolmore have virtually none of him in this years 2yr old stock. Surprising everyone but Jim BolgerLaugh
Report roadrunner46 July 24, 2011 7:13 PM BST
got good winner yesterday, loius the pious,proving to be real money spinner.Cool
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle August 1, 2011 6:47 PM BST
2 winners today.

Sneaking up on High Chaparral.

Where is Banimpre to increase his earningsMischief
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle August 23, 2011 8:47 PM BST
2 Listed wins last few days and another winner tonight in Ireland.

Still 7th overall....impressive stats for 2 crops
Report jmc27 August 23, 2011 11:15 PM BST
Thread has got very quiet from some corners Laugh
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle August 24, 2011 4:53 PM BST
10k a bargain if you got it this season!!!!![;)]
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle August 27, 2011 5:23 PM BST
Medhi again for HRE....another 100k in the bank
Report jmc27 October 1, 2011 5:24 PM BST
Not to far off passing out Danehill Dancer in the prizemoney after today. 23 2year old winners this year not to be laughed at either for a sire some said was finished and I like the way his stock can take racing especially the fillies!
Report ugly October 3, 2011 10:36 PM BST
I have a third of a HRE 2 year old filly who won are third race this season. She has blossomed throughout the last 3 months. Now put away for next year and I think we will see the best to come next year hopefully.
Report jmc27 October 4, 2011 6:39 PM BST
GL to you Ugly :)
Report jmc27 January 17, 2012 11:22 PM GMT
The one everyone loves to hate, On a pedigree note I love looking at his dams side it just such a regal bloodline of US and especially Canadian greats a whos who of hall of famers. Im still sticking to my theory that this lad is going to hit the mark as a broodmare sire still think he could go on when they get the right nick
Report yer ma January 18, 2012 11:59 AM GMT
I agree and am still considering for this year. Coolmore should be making more of an effort with him imo.
Report potentialmillionaire January 18, 2012 1:34 PM GMT
This is a top 10 sire with just 1 crop of 3yo's

He is on my list too and I have used him before with no complaints. I gather that a good book isn't going to be a problem this year and he's a tough and fertile horse.

Young and proven is a rare commodity right now. What more would you like to see Coolmore do yer ma? I think he is just in no man's land right now as he is not the obvious Gp 1 sire people hoped for so he is just waiting to find his level commercially.
Report yer ma January 18, 2012 9:32 PM GMT
Buy a few off you or I would be a start - more incentive to the pinhookers if they know the lads are going to buy a few for 100k+. You know they're not on the arab list so hes a bit in no-mans land.  Gets horses thats for sure and lots of stakes winners to come.
Report The Gotchee January 18, 2012 11:54 PM GMT
Dont get carried away with the hype. Have a look at these stats, they are self explanatory.

Holy Roman Emperor;  Named Foals = 304
                     Starters    = 233 (76.6% of named foals)
                     Winners     = 106 (34.9%)
                     Placed      =  63 (20.7%)
                  Stakes Winners =   9 (3%)
                  Stakes Placed  =  13 (4.3%)
Stud fee 2012, 12,500 euro

Big Bad Bob          Named Foals = 39
                     Starters    = 39  (100% of named foals)
                     Winners     = 23  (59%)
                     Placed      =  7  (17.9%)
                  Stakes Winners =  4  (10.3%)
                  Stakes Placed  =  3  (7.7%)
Stud Fee 2012, 6,000 euro
Report yer ma January 19, 2012 5:53 PM GMT
I'm not interested in beating the drum for HRE but if thats your logic Gotchee then BBB is a better stallion that 95% in the world including Galileo, Oasis Dream et al.  When he hits 100+ runners and still has those stats fair enough.  Sample size is everything
Report The Gotchee January 20, 2012 1:19 PM GMT
Sorry for raining on your parade. You are not the first and wont be the last to be taken in by this overhyped specimen. The yearling median for GB/IRE would suggest that breeders took a huge hit.
Report truehoncho January 20, 2012 2:52 PM GMT
This stallion started at 35k and his highest rated horse in 2 years is 114 (RP), i cant see him getting too many better ones with lower quality mares. I think he is a flop. He should be 5k.

Yer Ma

I'm not pushing BBB but the sample size of 37 is plenty significant enough based on the results. Unless there is some obvious bias in the figures (which i cant see), the stats are good enough to base business decisions on.
Report jmc27 January 20, 2012 6:05 PM GMT
Theres no denying that BBB is an excellent sire based on his figures I have always flagged that but as mentioned if it is as black and white as that he is the best sire in the world . Still cant see why HRE should be 5k either from one extreme to the other imo there would be a lot of sires on 5k if it was based on RPR of 114 after 2 years
Report truehoncho January 20, 2012 6:37 PM GMT
you are right but i dont think he is good value.

nothing is ever black and white, but we can only form opinion on what we know
Report potentialmillionaire January 20, 2012 6:59 PM GMT
Black and White are certainly not colours that can be associated with this industry very readily. Bright red  (panic) and beige (god knows what's going on) are far more appropriate.

With the mares that Holy Roman Emperor covered you can certainly make a case for some level of disappointment. However very few stallions get as high up the stallion tables (top 10) with just one crop of 3yos and no other stallion got as high up the 2yo table (money won) as he did in 2011.

If he fires in results like this year in year out he will be a useful tool. Certainly a far cry from 'a flop'.

Plenty of stallions do what they do regardless of what mares you send them. From Bahamian Bounty, Royal Applause and Bertolini all the way up to Sadlers Wells perhaps. HRE certainly has plenty of truehoncho's holding him back but I will wait and see whether he shakes them off. He could do.
Report potentialmillionaire January 20, 2012 7:00 PM GMT
I had to rescue supper 1/2 way through this post so it actually crossed with truehoncho's!
Report yer ma January 20, 2012 7:50 PM GMT
Plenty of people here terribly bolshy about particular stallions. Least I know PD is a proper breeder and backer of his opinions, doubt that is generally applicable.  I've never used HRE but have been offered 10k Euro - so Gotchee / Truehoncho do you think I would make more using BBB than HRE on these terms?  In fact I'll sell you the mare for 50k and you can try it out.
Report truehoncho January 21, 2012 9:16 AM GMT
i dont know yer ma, i suppose it depends on th mare (as ever}.
potm he is in the top 10 because of numbers and quality of mares in first year. I doubt he can keep that up without a couple of real classy ones, can he get them?
Report potentialmillionaire January 21, 2012 1:22 PM GMT
I think truehonch that HRE does not want for numbers for a while yet. He has remained covering decent sized books. Does he need quality mares to maintain this level? Probably, but it's not a definite. He strikes me as into a groove which he may be able to maintain. However a star or two maay as you suggest be more difficult so I don't see superstardom beckoning. Useful though is definitely within reach.
Report The Gotchee January 23, 2012 1:26 PM GMT
Based on his averages and medians at 35k,25k and 17.5k for a cover, HRE was a complete flop. At 10k he is still to dear for what he has achieved. There is no doubt in my mind that Banimpire got her colouring, most of her ability and stamina from her dam. Most of his better progeny have come from good producing mares. yer ma, as far as I am concerned Big Bad Bob's 39 progeny and their results is a big enough sample to judge his potential. From my research this is a stallion that covered a few homebred mares at Islanmore Stud and anyone else who wanted a free cover, over a 3 year period. An examination of the calibre of individuals that he has produced from the opportunities afforded to him shows he is a sire with a real future.  Based on his early and remarkable results The Irish National Stud properly marketed and promoted the stallion where he covered 77 mares last year. It is my view and it is only an opinion, that last year was his first proper season at stud and I am very confident his foals will do well this year. Another stallion which I have already highlighted is Kendargent (4k for 2012), he has had a G2 and a G3 winner already from only a handful of runners in his first crop. He has a similar profile to BBB but his first crop is too small to come to any positive conclusion. Although, neither BBB or Kendargent may be commercially attractive to some of the bigger breeders around here but at this point in their career they do offer incredible value for money compared to the likes of HRE.
Report potentialmillionaire January 23, 2012 2:16 PM GMT
The Gotchee. This term 'flop' is obviously endowed with a different meaning in your dictionary to mine.

HRE is champion sire of 2yos (money won) for 2011. All those folks that used Galileo for a six figure fee will be waiting for your use of adjective when you describe how he stacks up behind the sire that beat him in that table.

Also which adjectives will you trot out for Pivotal, Dubawi, Invincible Spirit, Shamardal, Cape Cross et al who finished below him with their mega fees and multiple crops in the general table?

I too think that Banimpire appears to have been a lot of her dam. But short of going for an immaculate conception for our foals why shouldn't the stallion take some credit?

Flawed HRE? Probably. Total Flop, do you not remember Mystiko, Rock Hopper and Araafa?
Report The Gotchee January 23, 2012 2:27 PM GMT
potm, you are right, I was a bit over the top there.
Report potentialmillionaire January 23, 2012 2:44 PM GMT
Me, right? Not very likely Gotch Shocked Happy to meet you somewhere in the middle!
Report jmc27 January 23, 2012 4:57 PM GMT
Not many successful sires if HRE is a complete flop, its funny anybody that is pro him can keep it to a realistic level nobody is calling him anything near a superstar but the ones that are knocking are coming in with the extremes.
Report yer ma January 23, 2012 7:54 PM GMT
Unfortunately its easier to ignore vociferous opposition if you breed to race - you just back your view and ignore. Negativity = lower prices commercially and hence my trepidation in using despite liking his pedigree, looks and (in my eyes) relative progeny success.  Thats why I'm disappointed Coolmore havent backed him a bit more, they given the impression of doubts themselves.  That all said my poss mare is by a Roberto stallion with a Nureyev grandamsire. Familiar?
Report truehoncho January 23, 2012 8:11 PM GMT
at 10k i still maintain he is expensive, do people think there will be a lot of buyers for his foals/yearlings at high prices?

yes, if you get a really nice one of course you will make as profit but if you get an average one from a 10k mares page, i think you will be lucky to cover your costs. Better to go to Mon Bond or the likes for half the price where you will sill get good money for a real nice one but have a lot less costs to cover with an average one. I just dont see HRE being in great demand, even with PotMs sales pitch!!
Report potentialmillionaire January 23, 2012 9:01 PM GMT
truehonch you're doing Prima Donna's job for him whilst he's away (not at Her Majesty's pleasure despite the rumoursWink).

I would only agree that your scenario is very likely in a lot of cases and who wouldn't want to keep costs down when the likely sales results could read the same.
I like to think closely though when picking the cheap alternative. If fashion is beggaring up the HRE type say but I judge his type to be the better sire then I am prepared to pay a bit more and take the chance for the sake of the mare.

Monsieur Bond is actually an interesting comparison I think. He gets a good looking horse and he has a commendable few good horses which given his lowley beginnings is standing him in good stead commercially. I don't actually think he's a nailed on 2yo sire though and he's mighty good at getting a really ordinary horse. One that still needs plenty of thought. . .
Report yer ma January 24, 2012 10:58 PM GMT
Shouldve been at Donny today truehoncho - couldve got a Marju mare in foal to MB for £800 poor dear. I cant have your logic about no big prices for HRE while as likely to be from nice MBs.  He had one yearling over 50k last year (Hoof it's full sister) while HRE closer to 20. Not as if we're now talking about having to sell for 50k to make profit it either.  Same mare colt by HRE or MB plus £5k, I'd have former every time. But its all about taking a view.
Report midas7 January 25, 2012 10:57 AM GMT
Taking up Yer Mas point about the Marju mare at Donny yesterday for 800 in foal to MB.I appreciate times are desperate for many people currently but good grief that is shocking for the owner/breeder.At the same Donny sale in December 2010 I picked up a Dylan Thomas colt for 800,too small to race last season but in work currently and in the trainers words will win a maiden this year(fingers crossed but he isnt silly).First season cover for Dylan at the time 50k,madness!!
Report Prima Donna January 27, 2012 1:05 PM GMT
Afraid no doubts about it HRE has been disappointing,with the quality of his books along with his high fees you can't really say anything different.IMO this stallion is the next Footstepsinthesand.Just wondering if Pot M your view is slightly skewed by the good turn HRE has recently done you?
Comparing a stallion who stood for 35k to one who stood for just 2k is frankly ridiculous,but looking at the actual results on the course perhaps the fees are the wrong way around.........remind me who was HRE's GR1 winner?
Report potentialmillionaire January 27, 2012 3:22 PM GMT
I think that there is a level of disappointment with HRE, but as I also said, the majority of stallions are faring worse than him on many levels on the track, so flop he is not.

Actually Prima my good turm I think reflects very well on the 'bottom half' as it was such a good offspring it would have been considerably more successful had it been by many other sires!
Report Prima Donna January 27, 2012 4:30 PM GMT
It may well have been Pot M,just imagine if it had been by Mon Bond if it had perhaps you could of joined me on my holidays!WhoopsI don't think HRE is a total flop but I do think he's one going the wrong way commercially so to speak,as I said above Footsteps the 2nd same stud same hype doubtless same results.
Lots seem to cling on to the fact he's had goodish mare so surely he will churn out a good one soon but the reality is for the level of mares he's had he's got nothing do dine out on yet,meanwhile over in Yorkshire a certain stallion is going forward in the right direction his mare quality is getting better each year do you really think the same could be said for Footsteps the 2nd?
Report neill d January 27, 2012 6:41 PM GMT
He wouldn't have gotten everything George Washington was supposed to get would he? How much of a loss was George, being a son of Danehill, his only progeny has proved decent and competirtive in fillies listed races
Report potentialmillionaire January 27, 2012 7:44 PM GMT
I've given up waiting to be invited on your holiday Prima, anyway I reckon Skegness in January is overrated Wink

What rubbish I was taking though, who on earth could speculate whether a different mating would create the same great result. I seem to remember a very similar date and a red hot sire producing quite the opposite Cry

Footsteps is compiling quite an acceptable record - statistically - and I suppose he has exceeded my limited expectations. The HRE's might perhaps end up with a bit more goodwill because they are probably more tough and trainable.

No mans land is surely the most likely destination for them both, but I suppose they both get plenty of winners so there's always a chance of redemption. . .
Report potentialmillionaire January 27, 2012 7:48 PM GMT
neil d, you never can tell. He wasn't my cup of tea as it's a temperamental old page and Alysheba as a broodmare sigh didn't inspire confidence. Who knows.
Report Prima Donna January 27, 2012 8:38 PM GMT
We will never know if George is a loss or not,impossible with just the one foal.But I'd guess he would of been a decent stallion.I remember him as a yearling at the sales 'Mrs Trickledown stud' took him into the ring,George was looking all around him in the outside ring he had even in his youthful days an very imperious look about him.What a shame his tragic of the best Guineas winners I've seen.
Report neill d January 27, 2012 10:34 PM GMT
apologies, bit of a pointless question I suppose, but what a charasmatic horse. He apparently had this amazing presence about him which intimidated other horses, particularly when they were unbroken just running around. I'm sure he was taking the piss during that QEII, he was never the same when he came back, became more of a grinder. His Guineas was the last time Coolmore went into an important English Classic truly confident I think.
Report yer ma May 6, 2012 3:50 PM BST
Total flop that HRE Whoops
Report jmc27 May 6, 2012 3:51 PM BST
Gets a tuff filly thats for sure :o
Report potentialmillionaire May 6, 2012 4:05 PM BST
Do we think, with hindsight, that Homecoming Queen should have been out as a 2yo at Dundalk in April?

All credit to her that she is a 3yo improver that still has a career infront of her, when one could perhaps suggest that it could so easily have been behind her!
Report Posh Paddy May 6, 2012 8:08 PM BST
One swallow does not a summer make.

Presumably they had her out so early hoping she would take after her half sister Queens Logic rather than her three quarters brother Dylan "sire of sires?!?Crazy" Thomas.
Report truehoncho May 6, 2012 8:16 PM BST
PP, thanks for the giggle!!
Report Prima Donna May 6, 2012 10:08 PM BST
A valid point from Posh Paddy.Could it be the case it just happens Homecoming Queen is out of a good producing mare despite being by Holy Roman Emperor?Myself I'd think that's more the case.
Report potentialmillionaire May 6, 2012 10:37 PM BST
You certainly can't knock Lagrion for sure. I actually worked with her as a foal and she was a lovely solid type I remember.
But the 3 Gp1 winners couldn't be any more different in every way you care to mention.
Just another fascinating conundrum of our topsy turvy game!
Have you been in gainful employment as our resident Rowley Mile paddock watcher Prima?
Any reports?
Report proxygene May 6, 2012 10:38 PM BST
I would agree though I would prefer the credit to go to HRE for purely selfish reasons.
Report proxygene May 6, 2012 10:38 PM BST
x post
Report Prima Donna May 6, 2012 10:44 PM BST
HHappyow did you guess Pot M,and yes I was in NMKT!
Report RipVanWinkle May 12, 2012 12:12 AM BST
I'm glad he got that group 1 winner, but i'm still not convinced about him. Although at his price he is ok
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle June 9, 2012 11:55 AM BST
    8Jun12    Bogini    1st         
    8Jun12    Unex Annigoni    1st       
    8Jun12    Cuisine    1st     
    8Jun12    Mayo Lad    3rd         
    8Jun12    Lollina Paulina    1st         
    5Jun12    Enthrall    3rd     
    5Jun12    Marinus    2nd   
    5Jun12    Theresnoneedfordat 10th         
    4Jun12    Lady Of The House 2nd     
    3Jun12    Imperial Wave    11th     
    2Jun12    My Propeller    5th       
    2Jun12    Ghost Train    3rd     
    1Jun12    King Kurt    2nd       
    1Jun12    Deauville Prince 2nd   
    1Jun12    Silvas Romana    2nd     
    1Jun12    Forget Me Not Lane 1st   
    1Jun12    Unex El Greco    3rd       

Going well of late
Report kennythebetboy June 14, 2012 12:58 PM BST
Progeny, Augustinian a bay colt out of Aurore (Fasliyev) has an entry in the 2yo seller on Monday at Windsor ....... what is interesting, it is owned and bred by The Queen, trained by Richard Hannon. ...... Not much chance of black type for this one then.
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle June 20, 2012 4:27 PM BST
Group 2 Ishavana

One thing he has shown as they they are tough hardy and even improving sorts.
Report Wilycayote June 20, 2012 5:43 PM BST
Wouldnt mind a yard full of HRE's

They seem to be able to run every week, on all types of ground, and surprisingly (for smallish types) hold their form as they get older.

The complete package at an affordable price, but will the yearlings sell well this year?
Report jmc27 October 3, 2012 8:24 PM BST
Nice September for him.
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