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Centrebet and Sportingbet now offering Identical odds
IASBet and Sportsbet offering identical odds
Betfair charging an extra 1.5% commission on racing after the turnover tax + 40-60% premium charge
The collapse of Sports Alive, punters lost $millions
A bunch of small bookmakers that have slow payouts, unreliable capital reserves, and follow larger bookmakers odds
Not a good time to be a punter
IASBet and Sportsbet offering identical odds
Betfair charging an extra 1.5% commission on racing after the turnover tax + 40-60% premium charge
The collapse of Sports Alive, punters lost $millions
A bunch of small bookmakers that have slow payouts, unreliable capital reserves, and follow larger bookmakers odds
Not a good time to be a punter
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Major issues are raised here.What is the actual capitalization of online bookies?If you were a bigger punter and maintained say 20 to 50K in an account, how safe is that deposit really?
Recently I made a withdrawal from one of my online poker accts of 2200.It took almost 2 weeks to show up in my account. There may be an "authority " of some sort who alledgedly monitors these providers but how much teeth does that really have? If these online bookies were to collapse, I 'm betting your deposit would disappear with them. |
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Just wait for the TAB's to increase their rake once they realise that all the projected 'income' from introduction of T/O tax is nowhere near enough to fund all the prizemoney hikes/track upgrades etc etc etc.
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Whats more is that if a bookie does collapse, customers are considered unsecured creditors meaning any money made by selling off assets will go to the investors not the customers
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We've had it pretty good for over 10 years, but it is officially dead. RIP online gambling.
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We have had it good but the hard times have arrived. Even the big syndicate are getting hammered.
The whole industry will suffer long term from screwing the punter. As for the corporates their business model will be dead in a few years. |
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Talk about gloom and doom
The gambling dollar may evolve in terms of where it goes, but it will not diminish in any material way. If you do this professionally, it is no different at all to any other business, you need to evolve with the changes around you and find ways to make it work. The best will always find a way to make money, simple as that |
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getting harder thats for sure
the pools are getting smaller and smaller .... something has to give |
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not to mention tabcorp paying 2 sets of dividends. vic/nsw. punters getting fcked once again.
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anyone have a theory as to why pools are getting smaller?
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my theory might be that a certain syndicate having to pay tax on winnings has resulted in their scaling down activities
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Well said Aussie. It's about adapting. For a few of this that will mean moving (have already) to sports betting. Not something I want to do, but if the racing authorities are going to screw us over then...
Mrben: they are getting smaller (let's say Tab-wise), but how do we really know with the fixed odds. They say the growth is amazing, but unless someone publishes anything meaningful we'll never know. I think it's interesting that in the wake of the IGA discussions, there's nothing on the regulation of the Corp bookies. Until that's addressed I don't play with them. |
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Mrben: they are getting smaller (let's say Tab-wise), but how do we really know with the fixed odds. They say the growth is amazing, but unless someone publishes anything meaningful we'll never know.
That is correct, pools are not necessarily getting smaller, things change and money goes elsewhere as time goes on. Anyone thinking they can do things exactly the same way in business for all of time and make a dollar simply will not survive. The gambling dollar will always be going somewhere |
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Its true it is hard to determine what the actual turnover is given fixed betting & Corps laying off etc. But the simple fact is that if you take out more out of the punters hand then he has less to bet with. Also there is turnover disappearing to other sports.
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It's the lack of sports turnover here that is alarming. I would have thought with the natural growth that liquidity would be far greater. Just seems like no-one wants to have a bet any more.
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Which sports are you referring to Winker?
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Aussie sports. AFL, NRL, Rugby. Am sure the match odds are seeing plenty matched, but the exotics, simple stuff like margin betting, HT/FT doubles, just no one betting.
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Fair enough, I would say that average punters are more likely to take prices than set prices in those types of markets, hence the market would need someone to seed them. If that is the case, it only takes one person or group to pull out and liquidity would go with them.
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Domestic sports betting is still in it's infancy here.
Even before the recent intensive advertising from TW and similar I had noticed a trend I found personally disturbing. Blokes I have known for years that simply DO NOT bet have been infected with APPS since we now "all" have a smartphone. They know the scores and the odds now  (so do their sons) WTF! Depending where you "sit" this may be seen as a good thing. Mug money galore..from my limited experience... seems to now go to Tabsportsbet, no wonder TW is bombarding the airwaves. Bfair has awful adds on TripleM? during Fri night footy, and imo is much less appealing to the "new" generation of sports punter (read-MUGS  )They won't be on here anytime soon, Winker. |
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i have my doubts if liquidity on the aussie sports on BF will ever increase to massive amounts, the bookies here are simply to competitive for the average punters dollar. aussie bookies on head to head bet 104% and most bet 1.92 or 1.93 lines, so the average punter who pay 5% comm to BF r better off with the bookies and have far more chose with markets and betting options. the gap between horse racing turnover and sports turnover is getting closer together and will evenually put real presure on the horse racing dollar with the shifting dollars going to sports betting.
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Should we let Tabcorp thieves have a monopoly. On line betting bookmaking organisations is a wonderful breath of fresh air. Choice is a great thing. I'd say Betting Exchanges are the greatest futuristic betting tool to arrive on the internet. Losing punters like justthetip tend to disagree. Why.? Fukced if I know why.? Got a feeling he may be my main scalp over the years.
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so it's like a daisy chain then.
JTT copping yours and P Moody pounding your backside .....ooooh enjoy  |
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or if you prefer
gobbing Paul to pay Peter  |
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what choice munday.......i rang one of the biggest corps for a bet at half time on the state of orgin game 3....more than likely the biggest betting game on the NRL fixture, asked for 500 at the line and they said i could have 250,,,ffs 250 r they kidding, the UK bookies r killing the game, time for a few real Aussie bookies to stand up and not that little girl TW. When the Asain bookies start to establish themselves in our sports we will c a massive shift to them from our betting ranks.
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Me I dont bet big. No trouble me having a bet.
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ben, i would say sportingbet's capitalization is about 300-400million, paddypower/sportsbet/ias about the same, as for the fall in turnover i would guess the withdrawal of ZRs 1 billion a year might start to take effect very shortly
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make that paddypower/sportsbet capitalization at about 3billion - wow they r big boys
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It isnt a bad time to be a punter, it's a bad time to be a trader who relies upon bookmakers for hedging
 Let's be clear, here. The long term losers aren't whining. They haven't noticed anything different... |
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You make a good point CS. I would fall somewhere in between a punter and a trader I reckon. I certainly stand a lot of bets, and can have big losing weekends. But having said that I am not adverse to trading in and out of a market when I see value or have an exposure I am not comfortable with.
And the lack of options and liquidity here are making it increasingly difficult to make the time spent a worthwhile thing to do. Premium charge, in play restrictions, increased commission, and a lack of genuine competition from others means that we are starting a downward spiral that Im afraid will be irreversible. |
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Winker,
I have a job lined up for the AFL off season. Liquidity has meant that I am making less this year than in previous years. I am 90% punter and 10% trader. I try to create over-rounds which increase my value. I figure if I can continue to pick well and always get the best price on offer my form of punting will stand up to intense scrutiny. So far so good, but it's getting tougher to get set. Bookie limits are shrinking and sometimes the movement occurs before I have decided what I really want. |
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Spoon the loon is correct - the 'smart phone' and the 'smart ready' televisions will be the platform that just about everything will be built on.
I seriously doubt the BF model suits 'modern day' punters, especially the young'uns. |
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all online bookmaking is finished
i only dabble with them every now and then because i think i might get overs. most competitions are for the win so the chance for corruption is greater with the exotics. look at recent sports news events over the last few years the other thing is exchanges are a more robust business model. your deposits should be safer in an exchange in general theory, secondly you can switch in an exchange , it is more real time and for traders far more flexibility. i am surprised all uk bookmakers haven't already gone bust if the tab doesn't create an exchange it will go bust 2 except for govt subsidies |
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'laying' is like the hardest thing in the universe for these new generation mugs to understand, which is pretty damn funny....so they just back things at bookies.....
the number of times i get blank looks when i give the most basic of examples of backing something for 4.00 and laying off at 2.00 for a potential free 2.00 units of your stake. i'm like, 'what do you mean you don't understand? are u spastic?' us older folk take simple multiplication for granted. |
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'laying' is like the hardest thing in the universe for these new generation mugs to understand, which is pretty damn funny....so they just back things at bookies.....
the number of times i get blank looks what do you mean? |
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I think he means the ability to sell rather than buy ie. to stake against an outcome rather than for it.
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And then I think maybe you were being facetious lol
I'm so dense at times. |
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are you trolling?
if not, i mean a lot of people do not understand what laying is. they dont understand that its simply the same as backing the other result. this simple concept is difficult for some sheep to comprehend. and that in turn is hard for me to comprehend. lol. |
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pokeron,
I suspect he was going for irony and this irony impaired numpty (me) missed it. |
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pokeron. i find it difficult to believe most punters are that stupid
are you a bookie??? take the waterhouse add, I don't know much about playing afl, rugby etc... but i know bookmaking and what punters want etc... Well , what I like is bookmakers that don't go broke and have a clean reputation. I also like bookies to know about rugby afl, league and whatever else because if they don't long term they will be plundered and go broke it is okay for mugs to take you on on bf and as long as the turnover is high enough bf will survive in theory to preserve you capital What punters really want is to bet on 2 flies up and down a wall. so online you bet on B, then A then C round the clock. I have never seen a bookmaker service that can provide that , And no , I am not on BF's payroll or getting paid by their marketing team |
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The TAB will be the winner in the long rum because there is no gamble in what they are selling, bookies and the exchange would fold before any TAB does.
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