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27 Apr 12 11:05
Date Joined: 14 Mar 07
| Topic/replies: 508 | Blogger: Hal's blog
Not as bad as I thought.
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Report Winker April 27, 2012 11:09 AM BST
Same Hal, wasn't expecting it to be that simple.
Report Craig The Speculator April 27, 2012 11:10 AM BST
seems unfair to put in on the greyhounds when they have entered into a gross product model
Report Josh-T April 27, 2012 11:22 AM BST
agree Craig, when NSW do it differently. but I have to say on face value I'm very relieved.
Report Khan321 April 27, 2012 11:23 AM BST
Unfair is a word that could be applied to a few things, but this announcement is at least simple and Betfair has enough problems with perceived complexity already.

It'll also help me stop betting on things I don't know much about like AFL / NRL just because the takeout is so low.
Report Barney The Bot Slayer April 27, 2012 11:32 AM BST

won't makemuch diffenrence to me.
I push and can do little business these days.

I won't be pushing any more
Report Josh-T April 27, 2012 11:38 AM BST
Could be right Barney. I think that can be helped a little if they expand #inplay to all harness markets. That's their plan, I just hope they go through with it soon
Report Hal April 27, 2012 11:44 AM BST
I can't see they are passing all the extra costs onto their clients. Still look a better deal then the scabs parimutuels (pc excepted).
Report Kye April 27, 2012 11:51 AM BST
1.5% increase. How could you have expected worse than that? I don't think you all realise how much this will affect your profitability long term.

I am leaving Betfair & the punt. It is difficult enough to win as a form punter with so many fixed races but this extra fee combined with the PC will make it near impossible to make a decent profit from betting here. I cannot justify the number of hours i spend betting on here.

Good luck all
Report Barney The Bot Slayer April 27, 2012 12:02 PM BST
It's hard to argue with you.

It's 1.5% when U win ,obviously

there are no rebates when you lose.

I hope B'/F have withdrawn all the sponsorship of races.
I would hate to think that we have now sponsor races through our increased 1.5%
Report Hal April 27, 2012 12:05 PM BST
All the best Kye. Wish you well.
Report Winker April 27, 2012 12:14 PM BST
It's a bit like the big banks, they can simply adjust their rate as they please to maintain/increase company profits. This business model continues to work when there is no competition.
Report wombleoz April 27, 2012 12:22 PM BST
looks like my sums were right-effectively means the average commission charged rises over 50% - can't blame Betfair for this one, it was forced on them Sad

terrible for the pros out there working on small margins - shame to lose people like Kye, will be missed Sad
Report Wat Smol April 27, 2012 12:23 PM BST
I only bet on Vic races & trots. I currently pay 3% commission. This will increase to 3.9% commission despite Betfair continuing to pay RVL & HRV for the present time at the existing rates.
I think the V man will cost me money.
Report della April 27, 2012 12:29 PM BST
Like KYE I have also decided to stop betting on Australian Racing

I will also be discontinuing my racehorse ownership was was born out of racing profits

instead I will be concentrating on poker and sports betting
Report Kingston Town April 27, 2012 12:29 PM BST
The caper was becoming very marginal for me whereas I could make a nice earn five years ago. Unfortunately I'll be gone after this increase.
Report wombleoz April 27, 2012 12:31 PM BST
it's a shame they haven't use different rates for different codes/states depending on what they have to pay - I guess this is easier

everyone going to change to the US/UK???
Report nickw April 27, 2012 12:34 PM BST
looks like to me that betfair will actually make money out all this
just charge everybody...mmmmmm

maybe a few PC payers may drop off due to paying more commission?
Report Barney The Bot Slayer April 27, 2012 12:53 PM BST
It will cost me(quick calculation)
25% of my profit for last 3 months

worse than PC
Report wombleoz April 27, 2012 12:59 PM BST
wow Sad
Report Dooksy April 27, 2012 1:01 PM BST
Agree with nickw. NSW greys haven't gone to the turnover model but yet we're still paying 6.5% base rate?
Report Josh-T April 27, 2012 1:03 PM BST
Sorry to hear those who aren't going to be around :( I still think I can make it work for me. I'm an exchange player exclusively. I'm just glad we still have an exchange. But I appreciate the views above. I'll tell you on May 31 if I can survive.
Report Barney The Bot Slayer April 27, 2012 1:12 PM BST

the prob is
that the more that leave.
the lower the liquidity.
the lower the liquidity ,
the more that leave.

Does B/F really need deserters,

as for B/f going inplay at trots--won't happen.
Report frog2 April 27, 2012 1:17 PM BST
Increasing win per market fee to pay for a turnover fee! Very dangerous I think. Traders will cost Betfair alot more yet will only pay a tiny bit more in charges. Scratch trades will cost Betfair a fortune.
Report Josh-T April 27, 2012 1:22 PM BST
I don't disagree frog if that's what indeed happens. What keeps me going is new people trickling into the market...whether they be smart, naive or indifferent.

And Frog although I've been wrong many times before, I think Aus is key in Betfair's global strategy and the push into the US etc.  So perhaps it's break even, small loss for them for a bit. Happy to be way off track.
Report elsu. April 27, 2012 1:56 PM BST
AUS Melt (AUS) 27th Apr / 22:42 R9 2240m Pace M
Comm Charged 2% On Net winnings of AUD915.31
Report Aussie Driver April 27, 2012 1:59 PM BST
You will be paying 2.6% Elsu
Report mickh April 27, 2012 2:13 PM BST
I would have thought that Elsu would have to pay 3.5%.  Isn't the increase 1.5%?
Report mickh April 27, 2012 2:18 PM BST
Sorry AD you are right I just worked it out.  He is on the maximum discount
Report elsu. April 27, 2012 2:53 PM BST
but reliabilty told after a few puone calls it will be 2.6%
     thanks for that
Report Thebas April 27, 2012 10:20 PM BST
1.5% ... same as rnsw increase ...

but the rnsw increase is on turnover .. and there is still conjecture on here as to what consitutes turnover ...

BF have never explained exactly what they have been advised is ... THEIR turnover ... (ie is it just the 'back' bets etc)

seems to me the other codes/states on here are now helping to pay the rnsw tax

... should RVic and others go to the turnover model (as they say they will) ... then i am assuming there will be a ... further upward adjustment to the (now) 6.5%
Report wombleoz April 27, 2012 11:47 PM BST
Racing Victoria switch to turnover from 1 July or 1 August anyway - they are charging 2% for the Spring Carnival - will Betfair up the commission to 7% then???

Turnover is "back bet turnover"

Agree the other codes / states that haven't changed models are being punished along with the punter - I'm guessing the assumption is they will all move across.  Maybe the option is for Betfair to limit sponsorship to those codes / states that don't???
Report swansdude April 28, 2012 12:38 AM BST
Hopefully gross profits is back after 12 months I was expecting worse so i have some relief right now hopefully volume is not to badly affected.
Report aachen April 28, 2012 1:29 AM BST
big winners will be the states/codes that keep the 15% of gross profit

betair have increase their commission by 30%

15% of 30% is 4.5%

and 4.5% is 3 time bigger than 1.5%
Report wombleoz April 28, 2012 3:09 AM BST
very good point Aachen
Report PCisaripoff April 28, 2012 3:25 AM BST
How great of the mighty Betfair
I'll still pay 20% but happy to do so as long as they stay in the game
Report wombleoz April 28, 2012 3:34 AM BST
actually - doesn't work that way Aachen - 1.5% on turnover is 60% of their gross on the old calculations
Report aachen April 28, 2012 3:44 AM BST
not sure on the maths..but I still think they will be better off

because they will be getting more from betfair than they
would be if things had stayed the same
Report wombleoz April 28, 2012 3:56 AM BST
yep they will be bit better off than they were
Report Mr. Memory April 28, 2012 7:17 AM BST
I live in London & 48% of my turnover is with Australia & New Zealand.....due to insomnia.

At 6.5% basic, you cannot win paricularly when it is applied to low turnover greyhound racing.

I therefore intend to invest in some sleeping pills.
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