ZR Thread

If Z is withdrawing from rebate deals it is probably to get the TABs/racing bodies to come pleading for him to come back at the old big Tassie tote rebate levels in 12 months time after turnover drops

A few years back some American tracks stopped allowing rebate players to bet.  The rebate players stopped betting these tracks knowing if they continued to play them with no rebate it was an admission they did not need the rebates in the first place.  12 months later these American tracks caved in and allowed the rebates again after turnover dropped

It is the smart play for a rebate player to stop playing once the rebates stop or are reduced.  It would also be the smart play for the TABs/racing bodies/tracks to not pay the rebates again and just cop the one off drop in turnover on the chin knowing the turnover was phantom turnover to begin with due to the rebates

ZR may not be the greatest person who ever walked this earth, but he is not as evil as jfc seems to think.  I don't want to get into too much detail, but ZR has made many sizeable charitable donations in Australia.  MONA has quickly become a world renowned gallery and it is free for Tasmanians to visit, no wonder they are proud of it.
As Halyer pointed out, if an agency is prepared to offer rebates in return for big turnover, then how can you blame someone for accepting them?

Connected in anyway Shiraz?

You certainly have been busy on here Juggler.  Yes, I know him and have some dealings fairly regularly.

Tipping you are a country man of his then imo. Yes been busy lol but typically didn't take long for the politics thread to rise to the top again

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/zeljko-loch-ness-monster-ranog...

cheers jfc ... interesting ... do we know or assume that he was also rebated from the vlandy's nsw pools

Zeljko gets bigger (undisclosed) kickbacks than anyone from Tabcorp NSW.

Who have now a convenient Isel of Man hub cohabitating with our protagonist.

and again thx jfc ... interesting stuff

hopefully the money paidd to rnsw from the nsw pools is hard-coded from revenue IN ... and not assessed after post bottom-line profits ...

but the 'profits' lost by tbnsw ... thru rebates ... may well have been 'subsidised' by rnsw in the 'pre-arranged' kickback in the form of the 'turnover rebate' issue that ewas mentioned at some point

jfc

SA was the state, I was alluding to, in my post of 28/2.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/superracing/m-hit-as-biggest-punter-moves-on/story-fn67mcwv-1226353417215

same story but this link should work - if he wants a "hobby" maybe he should take up stamp collecting

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sas-billion-dollar-punters-revealed/story-e6frea6u-1226360662136

Conspiracy theorists might care to ponder the copious results of this Google:

Ray Gatt Shiraz

Fascinating articles jfc.

Thanks.


Regards,
Niccolo

Further developments with Zeljko's sidekick David Walsh now confirmed as stoushing with the ATO.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/mona-founder-in-tax-office-sights-20120606-1zwqx.html

Maybe Shiraz could upbraid Kate for failing to laud Walsh as a philanthropist.

http://afr.com/p/national/ato_targets_punters_club_p2kW1NQlZaaKJmkW0XK8MK

http://www.news.com.au/national/secret-club-wealthy-gamblers-is-going-to-war/story-fndo4bst-1226419498897

Names getting named.

getting more interesting by the minute jfc .. cheers for the updates

Mona is apparently very good for those arty types amongst us

"Mona is apparently very good for those arty types amongst us"

MONA has been reviewed almost exclusively by desperates who have enjoyed an all expenses paid trip.

Has anyone seen anything resembling a genuine review?

If I wanted to see a wall of vaginas, I'd simply head off to Darlinghurst.

Might cost me $20, but still saves me an airfare.

At least he built something for the wider community with his money. Free for all to visit and decide. If he has used his back taxes in building this then good on him. imo. Possibly better than it going into consolidated revenue.lol

What has Reinhert built?
What has Palmer built?

apart from their own wealth?

Walsh is clearly delusional.

He has built something that did not need to be built.

It is closer to pornography than art.

Through the amply-documented VITAB fraud, Walsh and his mates, deprived paltry Canberra social services of $6 million.

His efforts for Tote Tasmania would be around $100 million wiped from Tasmania's sick economy.

And these are just the ones on public record.

my review was from a work colleague who paid their own way

Is he an expert?

Would he admit it, if he was merely sucked in by the hype?

I know nothing about art, but heaps about Walsh.

He's not what he makes himself out to be, and for so many to be sucked in by their vested interests, means that for me, you can stick such art up your cloaca!

Fair enough JFC, not across all the detail of the should haves etc.

Thought they just had a beef with his back taxes.

gee jfc u really have an axe to grind against this mob, come clean with us all on the forum what is your beef with this mob, maybe a sad x worker, u really do have some history here with them ??? maybe just jealousy, maybe lost your girl friend to one of them or maybe u were a jilted boyfriend of one of them

jfc not a fan at all - the guys have made a motza from the game, sure they get a hand up at others expense but good luck to them i say - take away the billions they turnover and we'd all be worse off imo

Maybe Walsh rejected my advances,and I am a jfc scorned.

Alternatively, maybe I am the sole individual prepared to risk payback by outing a mob well documented in its prior fraudulent activities.

Once more, for the censors, this is all in Hansard, and the Fossett Report.

i know the history so spare me............i agree they should pay their due tax's, but i am sure no one from that group has ever been charged or convicted of an offence for their practises

Furthermore Logroller,

whatever brushes I may have had with this mob is of no relevance to this debate.

What is relevant is whether I am telling the truth.

Now, considering all I have ventured into is on the public record, that is game, set, match.

And Wombleoz,

Good luck to those who frauded their way to their gains?

Never, in my book!

Edison, one of the biggest scumbags in history, was also never charged or convicted.

Not the Goanna, who provided floating bordellos to politicians.

Boy was that a shrewd investment!

thats the whole point, r u telling the truth??? and altercate motives due have relevance to the debate...............u keep mentioning fraud so tell us where

if one was to have a guess jfc's involvement is closer than he lets on imo

If I slipped once from telling the obvious established truth, I would have a bevy of defamation lawyers up my cloaca.

The fraud in question has been well documented on this very thread.

Or just try googling:

VITAB fraud

u r faceless and nameless so anything u say will just be taken down and deleted, so dont hide behind defamation laws to prove your unfounded opinions

Rubbish,

I have been active on the Internet for nearly 20 years now.

There are plenty who know who I am, who would not hesitate to go to town on me, if I put a foot wrong.

there's your first lie then,

active on the Internet for nearly 20 years now

i've had enough good luck to your quest then

former employee??? disgruntled investor???

Logroller

I've been on a Harness Racing Forum for 16 years. So nearly 20 years is not improbable.

internet in australia in 1992.....i dont think so

>>> internet in australia in 1992.....i dont think so

I was using the Net thru Netspace in Melbouurne in 92

$40 per month for 40 hours per month if I remember rightly...

If log says there was no internet in 92 then there was no internet in 92.

For log knows all.



He told us that there was no liquidity in the exchanges in Macao, Phill, Sing etc.



hahahahahahaha flog

wombleoz
07 Jul 12 04:00 Joined: 15 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 7,895 | Blogger: wombleoz's blog
jfc not a fan at all - the guys have made a motza from the game, sure they get a hand up at others expense but good luck to them i say - take away the billions they turnover and we'd all be worse off imo

----------

When Zeljko cuts a deal for double-digit kickbacks, that in turn is an extra tax on all punters not on that deal.

He can (and does) crush pools so there is no value left for anyone else, but value for him - after kickbacks.

The latest articles shows he made a POT of only 2.5% on Billions.

Take away the kickbacks and that might be a 7% Loss.

So anyone good enough to match his 300 genius employees, but without kickbacks, should also expect to lose that 7%.

Yet you're wishing him good luck!

google seems to ignore the AFR, making Zeljko exposes there hard to find.

But here's another ripper!

http://www.afr.com/p/national/no_humbling_great_gambler_1RahGi92iAkDFfUmE87CeO

Those of you imitating Brown's and Wilkie's bizarre intercessions on behalf of this lot, should try reading a few of these links, to save yourself considerable embarrassment.

Brown should stick to saving a rainforest somewhere. You would think after so many years in politics he would know that Swan can't interfere in taxation administration.

jfc what do you know about ZR and the boys being able to get on 5 to10 secs after the jump?

Or for having access to actual "live" odds as opposed to the 30 - 45 second delayed "live" odds like the rest of us?

Below are Final Supertab Trends for Cranbourne 4.

Note the 63 in Line 3.

That says that only 63% of the actual investments are displayed.

37% of the investments are invisible, and a sizeable amount of that is Zeljko's. From whatever International satellite pool he is now betting from.

There is tremendous opportunity for manipulation and misinformation to occur in such a scenario.

Anyone relying on this so called information, is begging to be taken to the cleaners.


"TRIFECTA TRENDS",
"CRANBORN-R",4,"*",
67086.25,36247.77,31184.85,0.00,0.00,0.00,"NIL","NIL","NIL",63,"*",
23.80,6.30,37.00,24.90,17.90,"*",
14.60,3.10,22.40,11.90,10.30,"*",
14.60,3.20,13.70,6.90,7.20,"*",
8.70,2.10,8.30,5.10,6.10,"*",
80.50,14.50,64.10,29.90,19.90,"*",
15.10,3.70,17.20,8.10,8.10,"*",
19.50,3.10,17.00,9.10,8.50,"*",
25.10,4.60,20.50,10.80,9.30,"*",
1.70,1.20,1.40,4.90,8.20,"*",
67.20,13.30,73.90,33.30,22.00,"*",
22.20,4.60,25.20,10.60,10.00,"*",
"---","---","---","---","---","*",
21.70,4.60,24.20,13.80,11.30,"*",
56.00,10.00,67.40,33.90,22.30,"*",
"---","---","---","---","---","*",
"---","---","---","---","---","*",
"---","---","---","---","---","*",

What about my ? jcf

Sorry, I just don't know anything about that 10 seconds past jump rumour.

The number of times a leader in the dogs shortens on Supertab (never noticed on other two totes) is remarkable. But surely there are checks & balances in place to ensure this doesnt occur!

i meant to say shortens in last update after race

Rumour?

my understanding was that it took 30 seconds for the pool to update from the jump. yet i've seen horses shorten after a 1200m race.
try getting an honest answer from tabcorp. good luck.

EarlyCrow,

Your short sentence posts are inscrutable enough, but your one word efforts really take the cake.

How is anyone able to know what you are on about?

Anyone bothering to look can see a delay after start when final pools get released.

Tabcorp et al will claim this is for some technical reason.

Are you saying there are other factors involved?

If so, why not let us all in? In terms that won't get either of us in trouble.

Reading your post tells me you understood every thing i said,technical issue lol, the more you turn over the bigger the technical issue turns in your favour

FFS

jfc, you provide a link to journos that are speculating based on the premise that the "accused" will not respond, then you make some vague reference that maybe there is a google conspiracy which makes it hard to look up.

You seem to want to make this thread your way to prompt response to your rhetoric.
That article you linked on 10 Jul 12 01:41 is mostly wild speculation by the writers at afr, but you place it here as though it is fact and we should all buy into your conspiracy theory.  That article has several statements in it which are inaccurate and misleading.

zeljko ranogajec afr

Here (from where I sit) are some facts.

Google news for the top line phrase to find only one old item.

Yet click WEB, and eventually on Page 2, today's staggering AFR news article might be spotted:

http://www.afr.com/p/national/documents_stolen_in_punters_club_POofsHL7Tn6rZY0k6sChQI

Weird!

...


Shiraz,

if you can't find anything better to bitch about, then I'll continue playing you like a cheap fiddle.

he's winning on the punt as well Uhhh, maybe only 2-3% but he is winning

We've known that for some time IMO

Walshy just interviewed on ABC's Lateline.  He claimed he had no staff early in the interview

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3551796.htm

terrific link jfc cheers

... out on a limb i guess but i support walsh's contention ... in that restrospectivity is unjust

if he is saying they have had many discussions and investigations by the tax office ... and provided all information at the time .. and the tax office said back then they would not classify them as a business ... then surely they can only be taxed from the date ONWARDS that the tax office suggest they are a business

all this is void if full disclosure was not made available to the tax offic office originally of course ... and that, i assume, is the basis of the court case prosecution & defence

as an historical aside ... i am "pretty sure" (?)  that the 70's "bottom of the harbour" tax ruling ... did the same thing in regard to retrospectivity ... and when challenged in court that retrospectivity was deemed not taxable

i would imagine their defence will investigate the "bottom of the harbour" ruling in a hope of similar outcomes

do you mean better off?

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............

http://blogs.abc.net.au/tasmania/2012/07/david-walsh-v-the-australian-taxation-office.html

An audio analysing the ATO implications.

----

I believe the kickbacks were so huge that for certain segments it appears to be a risk free operation, hence not gambling.

Walsh is trying to argue they were taking risks, but I suspect they were only risking their risk-free winnings.

cheers jfc .. an interesting 14 mins for sure

seems to me walsh is resigned to his gambling being acredited as a business ... just from what date now ... appears to be the conflict ?

http://afr.com/p/national/how_ex_wives_club_nailed_david_walsh_FfWQPtD3QkKTDqBH53eA0K

New (again hard to find) AFR article.

Title sounds like it's about adultery.

hell hath no fury ...

I don't want to spam this site with my vents elsewhere.

So I'll try to confine myself here to links to key developments.

But I don't feel this saga is over by a long shot.

This saga that has cost you lot heaps over the last 30 years.

well that last link is a beauty...........the scorn of a women back in 2005 may bring the empire down.
cant beleive they didnt make the hubby settle and buy silence

It is an amazing situation.

Most of us could see out our days with $10 million.

So what's the point in pushing for more?

But these genii see different.

And so can well end up broke and playing Manila with Bernie Madoff.

Joined: 13 Jul 12 | Topic/replies: 469 | Blogger: Uhhh's blog
So Zeljko has 300 employes which likely 1/3 at least are form analysts including the best so called computer programers around but if you take out rebates he is showing a loss overall on the punt?

Either this is total Gelati ...and if not who are these analysts working form him?


I have no idea which one to believe


1...I he loses on the punt without rebates which would be disgraceful considering he has 300 employed

or

2...He really is wining a lot more?
Rate reply:
| report block user



He pays PC to betfair so rebates not neede to turn profit

I know two guys, one from Sydney, the other from Newcastle, that did form analysis on Harness Racing meets.

They did it from home, with a DVD arriving in the mail. Neither guy would tell  me who they worked for, but I assumed it was Z.

Interestingly, the Sydney guy did a trot meeting in SA, usually a Friday night like Port Pirie, the other was a meeting in the USA, such as Balmoral or The Meadows.

8ball Do you know what % POT ZR is running at on the exotics?

earycrow, in their organization of 300 people, i would say 6 people would know the break up of % betting into pools, that would be very highly prized IP

More than 6 IMO

Bumping this for the benefit of Feck and any others who are newcomers to the Zeljko saga.

Please note all the nasty comments against me here are entirely baseless.

http://www.afr.com/p/national/money_magic_makes_billions_disappear_oHyu9FiLwUcuPzefN3zg7O

Hard Hearted Hannah Low doesn't seem to be buying the hobby angle!

he should have twigged earlier that marrying an italian woman whose surname was Capone ... and then dudding her ... was never going to end pretty

Adelaide mum Elisabeth Steicke takes on billion-dollar international betting syndicate, Punters Club

    Penny Debelle
    The Advertiser
    September 14, 2012 10:00PM


SHE is the Adelaide mother lifting the veil of secrecy from the mysterious billion-dollar international betting syndicate known as the Punters Club.

Elisabeth Steicke, who lives in Burnside, is chasing up to $50 million of the gambling fortune made by her ex-husband as a member of the club.

So far, Ms Steicke has spent more than $10.5 million in her attempts.

The South Australian Supreme Court has been told the money was spent on lawyers, investigators and forensic accountants investigating Mr Steicke's assets and accounts in Australia, Hong Kong, Switzerland, Liechtenstein and Malta.

The sum includes a legal bill of $4 million.

Her ex-husband, former Murray Bridge man David Steicke, who has remarried and lives in Hong Kong, is thought to have spent about $26 million fighting her.

Ms Steicke, 50, who is raising their severely autistic teenage son feels "abandoned and defrauded" according to documents presented to the Supreme Court and believes her ex-husband is hiding his considerable assets from her.
Full Digital Access - $5 for first 28 days

Since their separation in February 2005, Ms Steicke has been pursuing a sizeable chunk of what she believes is his $100 million fortune made from the elusive international betting syndicate she helped set up.

Her problem is that the Punters Club members are brilliant and eccentric individuals whose dealings are so secret the files on Mr Steicke's laptop she retrieved after he left were encrypted.

Their operations are said by her legal team to be no more than "a loose anarchic arrangement between four principals". They kept no books or records and outsourced the betting to others.

The South Australian link to the Punters Club is Mr Steicke and the South Australian winemaker Raymond Gatt, who owns three vineyards including Eden Springs, and spends half his time in Asia where he works "in computer software development".

Head of the club is Zeljko Ranogajec, an ex-Tasmanian who has been called "the world's biggest punter". He is a card-counting genius who was once thrown out of a casino after winning $500,000 and lives on the Isle of Man. The other prominent member is Tasmanian cultural philanthropist David Walsh, who spent $80 million building the landmark Museum of Old and New Art (MONA) in Hobart.

Until 2006 David Steicke had a 14.8 per cent share of the Punters Club and Elisabeth Steicke wants half, but first has to prove the existence of assets and earning of which there is virtually no traceable evidence or visible structure.

"The husband declared in 2004 that our share in The Punters Club alone was worth $150 million and we derived an income in 2004 of approximately $15 million from this asset," Ms Steicke said in an affidavit to the Supreme Court.

"The husband has since declared the asset has no value and has zero income."

Ms Steicke, who trained as a secretary, met David Steicke in 1987, the year before he and Ray Gatt began a local betting operation using complex algorithms and computer programs that make money out of layers of high-frequency bets. Thousands of bets are laid each day around the world on everything from women's tennis to American gridiron and Hong Kong horse racing. The Club's daily betting float for computerised gambling across Australia, the US, Hong Kong and the United Kingdom is $100 million, according to documents filed in the Supreme Court. Ms Steicke began to assist him with his "horse racing hobby" which in the late 1990s  after Gatt and Steicke joined forces with Walsh and Ranogajec  became the Punters Club.

Her brother, Jack Capone, for a decade ran the local betting operations from the former Gothic Hotel, Whitmore Square, and later at the Windmill Hotel, in Prospect.

In the late 1990s, the family moved to low-tax Switzerland, where Elisabeth Steicke set up a betting structure for horse racing and sports betting in the US.

Through her Italian passport, the couple was able to obtain residency and open Swiss bank accounts. She also introduced Kent Town lawyer Russell Jamison to run a lucrative betting office for the Club, known as Data Processors.

The elusive group of mathematics savants claim their betting activities are a hobby, an assessment that the Australian Tax Office once agreed with, but which it is is now challenging.

She believes she is entitled to a 50 per cent share. Pinning down Mr Steicke's assets, however, has proved a seven-year problem.

"It appears the husband and other syndicate members have taken extensive legal and accounting advice," her legal team advised.

"The structure of the Punters Club is not placed in writing, no financial statements are prepared and the majority of activities for the Punters Club are outsourced."

The couple's assets in Australia may be worth up to $10 million.

Their autistic son, now a teenager, attends a top private school and has paid carers to look after him. Ms Steicke's annual living costs, including caring for her son, amount to $5 million, according to documents.

Ms Steicke declined to comment for this story.

Kato
It has been mentioned before on here
However it goes like this "Hell Hath No Fury Like a ... well you know the rest.

The latest addendum to the Oxford dict has been the time honoured "Winners are Grinners"
It now says "Winners/Lawyers are Grinners"

1.01 in a few years there's a movie.

yeah i know 8 ball, just someone elses take. it's all interesting reading though.

http://afr.com/p/national/punters_club_cuts_deal_with_ato_Lpn9VjiEbzGQbz50DeVPbN

Professional gambler and art collector David Walsh and friends in a multibillion-dollar punters club have done a secret deal with the Australian Taxation Office to settle a case relating to hundreds of millions in unpaid tax.

so the tax dept won ?

so the tax dept won ?

If ATO wanted $900 million,

and settled for $100 million,

then Zeljko won!

And the rest of us lost!

thus my question mark jfc

surely it finishes them to some extent now that the tax dept here has their numbers

The media tells us Zeljko (along with his dubious lucre) has fled Australia.

And that Australian Racing will have to do it tough.

That same media then reports record Spring Carnival turnover.

How can that be?

What are we missing??? !!!

He hasn't resumed betting into the Tatts pools, through the avenue he was using pre March 2012.

Also he has given no indication that he will, at any time in the near future.

The Tatts pools include Norfolk Island.

So closing the South Australia cloaca is of minimal consequence.

I'll be stunned if TattsGroup report a decline in revenue due to the ATO-provoked exile of this philanthropic leviathan.

I think Tatts would know if he was betting through Norfolk Island.

Maybe they have norfolking idea

Castiron 20 Oct 12 02:49 Joined: 10 May 04 | Topic/replies: 419 | Blogger: Castiron's blog
I think Tatts would know if he was betting through Norfolk Island.so the tax dept won ?

Gimme a break!

McIlwain was oblivious to this convenient cloaca.

Zeljko,

or John Wilson,

or Will Johnson.

Just watch the overly delayed TAB revenue so-called disclosures to see how much the rest of us are subsiding this philanthropist.

You believe what suits your purpose.

Remember, you didn't know that Zelko had stopped betting, until I told you on this very forum.

The facts vehemently defy the hallucination that Zeljko has ever stopped betting here.

Record turnover!

What gives?

Whether it's Norfolk Island or Isle of Man or Belarus.

His imprint registers on every dud dividend!

wayno the stopper was heard making bo.mb threats last week ... the screens at my local are in danger.

jfc, I have messaged you.

http://www.afr.com/p/national/on_punters_club_tax_office_backs_tOeA0xvd0bf8TsyE2OYjKK

http://www.afr.com/p/national/the_tax_office_punt_that_flopped_v1nv8Q4drokQ0dif4l9hEN

$400 million gift.

Not to mention the continuing millions in Kickbacks.

Add the $3 million gift Tasmania just gave to David Walsh to try put cloacas on plane seats to the Tasmanian winter!

Bumped to provide remedial reading for Rip Van Winkle Tilt.

never did get any idea if he pays PC..............