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differentdrum
14 Feb 19 21:54
Joined:
Date Joined: 05 Oct 11
| Topic/replies: 7,801 | Blogger: differentdrum's blog
You will be waiting for ever. The weasel will not budge. Get out of wreckage while you can.

No sane MP should stick around with a bunch of third rate lefties who have absolutely no chance of winning an election.
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Report differentdrum February 15, 2019 4:02 PM GMT
So you get rid of the quality that at the moment just about remain in party leaving a pile of left-wing rubbish which would eventually disintegrate to nothing.

A terrific idea.

The only thing the weasel has achieved throughout Brexit is consistently pissing off the remainers in the party.
Report enpassant February 15, 2019 4:07 PM GMT
You are fast and loose with the facts over assertion there.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 4:12 PM GMT
Brexit is the only thing giving Labour a chance! Without Brexit Labour would have zero chance.
Report enpassant February 15, 2019 4:13 PM GMT
Wow
Report politicspunter February 15, 2019 4:15 PM GMT
I am not sure where folks get this brexit Labour stuff idea. I don't recall it having a huge impact when Labour turned the polls around at the last election.
Report enpassant February 15, 2019 4:18 PM GMT
Well, let's ask them: Why is Brexit giving Labour a chance ?
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 4:24 PM GMT
Because everyone thinks the current government is a shower of crap, how can that be anything but good for the opposition?
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 4:25 PM GMT
In other words Brexit is causing Tories to shred loads of votes, by definition good for the opposition.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 4:31 PM GMT

Feb 15, 2019 -- 10:15AM, politicspunter wrote:


I am not sure where folks get this brexit Labour stuff idea. I don't recall it having a huge impact when Labour turned the polls around at the last election.


Labour gained a lot from their scrapping university fees, so much of their gains were from young people in university towns.

Conservatives lost a load of votes to Lib Dems. Tories performed poorly in remain voting areas while failing to pick up any of the Labour leave heartlands which just hate Tories regardless.

Report enpassant February 15, 2019 4:34 PM GMT

Feb 15, 2019 -- 10:24AM, n88uk wrote:


Because everyone thinks the current government is a shower of crap, how can that be anything but good for the opposition?


What's this got to do with Brexit - they are sh!te regardless of it !

Report n88uk February 15, 2019 4:34 PM GMT
Also of note is at the time it was the early days of Brexit. The manifestos were still able to perpetuate fantasy Brexit visions like they would happen, something that doesn't exist at least for Conservatives anymore, as now nearly everyone thinks their deal is sh*t, there is a reality that is known now.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 4:36 PM GMT
Yet they had a majority before Brexit enpassant. Most people in the country think the government has handled Brexit appallingly and on top of that the party is a mess now all down to Brexit to the point there's a threat it could break apart. Without Brexit you wouldn't have this massive divide in the party where they can't even agree a stance on things amongst themselves.
Report politicspunter February 15, 2019 4:59 PM GMT

Feb 15, 2019 -- 10:31AM, n88uk wrote:


Feb 15, 2019 --  4:15PM, politicspunter wrote:I am not sure where folks get this brexit Labour stuff idea. I don't recall it having a huge impact when Labour turned the polls around at the last election.Labour gained a lot from their scrapping university fees, so much of their gains were from young people in university towns.Conservatives lost a load of votes to Lib Dems. Tories performed poorly in remain voting areas while failing to pick up any of the Labour leave heartlands which just hate Tories regardless.


Well, if the LibDems, who campaigned strongly on a strongly remain platform, gained a lot of votes from the tories as you say, how come their percentage share of the vote went down?  In Scotland, a strong remain area, the tories gained twelve seats from the SNP, a strong remain party. How could that be?

Report n88uk February 15, 2019 5:12 PM GMT
Because they in turn lost in Labour's strategy of university towns. And the last part is more to do with the SNP being seen to have run their course than anything.

There's also that last election and politics in general has driven even more towards a two party system in this country. Conservative and Labour increased on purely vote share last election.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 5:18 PM GMT
Also Lib Dem weren't helped by also having a bad leader last election, they likely would have gained in percentage share if they had a diff leader to Farron who had a lot of bad press at the time and generally wasn't suitable as Lib Dem leader.
Report politicspunter February 15, 2019 5:23 PM GMT
Labour were at 25% in the polls pre election, six weeks later they were at 40% at the end of it. That isn't solely to do with votes in university towns. I think you will find that far from running their course, the SNP vote in Scotland is actually increasing in recent opinion polls.
Why did the remain supporting LibDem vote share go down though if they gained a lot of votes from the tories?
Report enpassant February 15, 2019 5:24 PM GMT
The Tory party are without question considered the party for and of Brexit (in contrast to their respective leader's positions oddly enough). Take that away and they lose power.
Report politicspunter February 15, 2019 5:24 PM GMT
There is no doubt that the leaders of all the parties played a considerable part in their respective party results.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 5:30 PM GMT
The issue is more though enpassant that Corbyn right now, he still has time to change and move his party another direction, but right now isn't seen as the alternative for many. Most the potential Labour voters they could pick up are remainers and he is hardly filling them with faith that he's much better than the current lot.
Report politicspunter February 15, 2019 5:36 PM GMT
Some folks are putting far too much emphasis on the current brexit situation and assuming it will have a huge impact in a future general election voting. It won't.
Report enpassant February 15, 2019 6:01 PM GMT
What change of view do you suggest he make ?
Report unitedbiscuits February 15, 2019 6:46 PM GMT
Some folks are putting far too much emphasis on the current brexit situation and assuming it will have a huge impact in a future general election voting. It won't.

It will. Many voters hitherto uncommitted are passionate about Brexit. An opposition that facilitates Brexit won't escape the fall-out as the disaster unfolds..and Brexit will dominate the agenda for years to come. Labour can never out-Brexit the Tories and pandering to the Northern Brexit vote won't get Labour elected.
Report politicspunter February 15, 2019 6:59 PM GMT
You are wrong.
Report unitedbiscuits February 15, 2019 7:37 PM GMT
Labour's "constructive ambiguity" over Brexit is a form of cowardice. Labour won't get power, not without us.
Report enpassant February 15, 2019 9:38 PM GMT
https://evolvepolitics.com/watch-thousands-of-kids-protesting-climate-change-chant-oh-jeremy-corbyn-and-fck-theresa-may-video/

"In scenes that will surely send shivers down the spines of Tories and right-wingers across the country, tens of thousands of schoolchildren took to the streets today to protest the government’s continued inaction on climate change – and the message from them was particularly clear, with chants of “Oh Jeremy Corbyn” and “F*ck Theresa May” echoing throughout the capital."



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report enpassant February 15, 2019 9:43 PM GMT

Feb 15, 2019 -- 1:37PM, unitedbiscuits wrote:


Labour's "constructive ambiguity" over Brexit is a form of cowardice. Labour won't get power, not without us.


Who will you vote for ?

Report n88uk February 15, 2019 9:48 PM GMT

Feb 15, 2019 -- 12:01PM, enpassant wrote:


What change of view do you suggest he make ?


Well how about backing what the majority of his voters/members and on top of that the majority of the potential future Labour voters support, ie. remain or a 2nd ref. On top of that Corbyn said if he can't get a general election, he will back a 2nd ref many times months ago, well he's failed in his attempts to get a general election, and the clock is ticking, and all of a sudden he's stopped mentioning a 2nd referendum, and you wonder why a lot of potential Labour voters who really want to vote Labour would struggle to bring themselves to do it if there's an election in May and policies don't change.

Report n88uk February 15, 2019 9:49 PM GMT

Feb 15, 2019 -- 11:36AM, politicspunter wrote:


Some folks are putting far too much emphasis on the current brexit situation and assuming it will have a huge impact in a future general election voting. It won't.


If there's a general election in May you think Brexit isn't influencing that election? Anyway the topic was that Brexit is what's keeping Tories in power anyway which simply isn't true, Brexit has made Tories far less likely to win the next election than they would be otherwise.

Report politicspunter February 15, 2019 9:50 PM GMT
Chicken and egg stuff here. A general election can't be ruled out and that's target one.
Report politicspunter February 15, 2019 9:51 PM GMT
I agree that if there is a snap election, rather than 2022 when scheduled, brexit will play it's part.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 9:56 PM GMT
Using this logic you would never move on to the next part of his plan, as a general election could never be ruled out totally, Corbyn made his move for one and failed, and now instead has tried to work with May, which again has been rebuffed, at some point you've got to deliver on your promises or no-one will believe you, and it's not like Corbyn is high up generally on people's trust list because of his reputation.
Report politicspunter February 15, 2019 9:59 PM GMT
I don't think a snap general election can be ruled out. We are at something of an impasse and it's hard to see a way forward. Spain have just called a general election as a budget couldn't be agreed.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 10:01 PM GMT
Yer but the thing is if a general election is called now it's because Conservatives think they will do better basically and think it's for their benefit. Imo it still won't happen as it's way too big a gamble from their pov. I mean they literally made the same mistake 2 years ago, and it was less of a gamble then than it would be now. The polls atm are unreliable as it's a highly volatile situation which could see a load of people swing very quickly depending what's in the manifesto's.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 10:02 PM GMT
I don't even see how Conservatives could put on a united front in a manifesto anymore.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 10:03 PM GMT
I guess in theory they could say they'd negotiate the backstop, but you'd have to be a complete mug to buy it.
Report politicspunter February 15, 2019 10:07 PM GMT
The damage has been done, not just to the tories but to our whole democratic system. I wouldn't like to even hazard a guess at the victor if an election was called to try and break the deadlock.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 10:11 PM GMT
Oh me neither. I would guess it's highly unlikely you get a majority either way though, which will mean it won't actually solve anything. I've never really understood the idea that a general election just magically solves Brexit, as it's pretty likely you'd be in the exact same position after it that you were before.
Report politicspunter February 15, 2019 10:12 PM GMT
A possibility is a Labour/SNP coalition.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 10:16 PM GMT
Will the SNP agree to one without Corbyn changing his current Brexit stance though? Can't see them agreeing to one without a 2nd ref promised at least.
Report enpassant February 15, 2019 10:22 PM GMT
'Well how about backing what the majority of his voters/members and on top of that the majority of the potential future Labour voters support, ie. remain or a 2nd ref. On top of that Corbyn said if he can't get a general election, he will back a 2nd ref many times months ago, well he's failed in his attempts to get a general election, and the clock is ticking, and all of a sudden he's stopped mentioning a 2nd referendum, and you wonder why a lot of potential Labour voters who really want to vote Labour would struggle to bring themselves to do it if there's an election in May and policies don't change. '
---------------------------------------
Conference agreed a way forward and as far as I see it he has followed that.
You appear to want him to openly support a PV, quite like the tories and the PLP desperately wanted him to call a vote of no confidence when there was nil chance of it succeeding.
He has not failed in his attempt- he is merely waiting for the tory implosion; you seem to want him to do something that may help them avoid it.

I'll ask anyone that 'really want' to vote Labour - if not Labour then who ?

What policies do you want him to change ? Is it purely about brexit policy ? Because there are other policies and issues out there.
Report n88uk February 15, 2019 11:47 PM GMT
Well to answer that will depend where they are, but it will be some combo of Lib Dem, SNP, Plaid Cymru and so on. For my own part I would pretty much vote whoever is most likely to get the Conservatives out in my seat (assuming it isn't UKIP or someone which pretty sure it won't be), I guess in theory that's a good vote for Labour whoever I'd vote.

I agree on the last part. However a snap election in May will be totally dominated by Brexit and likely running a manifesto aimed on other things and ignoring it would be doomed to fail.

I'm not sure Tories really want Corbyn to support a people's vote at all. Tories and Tory media is able to play off Corbyn having no real plan so they say, even if it's not true, it's presented in the media, whereas that would take away that option.
Report unitedbiscuits February 16, 2019 8:35 AM GMT
I'll ask anyone that 'really want' to vote Labour - if not Labour then who ?

Any pro EU party. Many can see virtue on the left and on the right but none in Brexit, so whatever side a Leaver is on, they want to be on the other, and they are now effectively disenfranchised by this political system.
Report enpassant February 16, 2019 1:40 PM GMT
n88uk. somewhat reassured by your comments there ! As you say (and this probably applies to ub's post also) any vote along those lines is not really a block on or to a Labour government.

I do believe they want him to support a PV as this WILL enable them to deride him as a 'traitor' and ignoring the 'will of the people' etc etc. Why on earth does he or should he need to give them that option ?
The thing is he put forward a plan that was supported by the EU. Now whether that plan is ever put into operation or not it has had the effect of trapping the tories. We must wait imo for them to destroy themselves from within- not help them play their forever go to response of the blame game- this must be and seen to be wholly, unquestioningly, criminal court level proven to on them and them alone.
Report enpassant February 16, 2019 3:08 PM GMT
"Frankly, if there is not a majority to be found at this stage even for extending the Article 50 process due to concerns about the impact at a constituency level, there is not going to be a majority for a second referendum even as the prospect of a no deal exit hoves into view – although MPs may yet vote for an extension if the cliff-edge gets closer. "
Report thegiggilo February 17, 2019 4:02 AM GMT
Labour level in latest poll again..Cool
Report jucel69 February 17, 2019 5:51 AM GMT
Any decent opposition would be miles ahead
Report politicspunter February 17, 2019 8:07 AM GMT
Labour were 25 points behind in the polls. They're not now.
Report drive for show putt for dough February 17, 2019 11:46 AM GMT
Feb 15, 2019 -- 4:15PM, politicspunter wrote:

I am not sure where folks get this brexit Labour stuff idea. I don't recall it having a huge impact when Labour turned the polls around at the last election.


At the last election many people voted labour thinking they had no chance and to prevent a tory landslide. Walking in the polling booth and putting an x by corbyns name and realising that waking up the next day he may be PM will focus the minds of many.

Its hard to imagine how May could perform her role worse yet she still has a lead in the polls. No chance Jezza wins an election far more likely to be absolutely routed
Report politicspunter February 17, 2019 12:39 PM GMT

Feb 17, 2019 -- 5:46AM, drive for show putt for dough wrote:


Feb 15, 2019 -- 4:15PM, politicspunter wrote:I am not sure where folks get this brexit Labour stuff idea. I don't recall it having a huge impact when Labour turned the polls around at the last election.At the last election many people voted labour thinking they had no chance and to prevent a tory landslide. Walking in the polling booth and putting an x by corbyns name and realising that waking up the next day he may be PM will focus the minds of many.Its hard to imagine how May could perform her role worse yet she still has a lead in the polls. No chance Jezza wins an election far more likely to be absolutely routed


Don't consider ever betting on politics.

Report drive for show putt for dough February 17, 2019 12:55 PM GMT
Don't consider ever betting on politics.

I won so much on Brexit and Trump i am still counting it.

My early investment on Andrew Yang to be next president has already proved fruitful.
Report politicspunter February 17, 2019 1:00 PM GMT
Funnily enough I bet on brexit and Trump and I also bet Corbyn to be the next Labour leader. Your interpretation of the voting for the last general election is flawed, also Labour aren't behind in the polls.
Report InsiderTrader February 17, 2019 1:54 PM GMT
Brexit will have no impact on the next election according to some on here.
Report politicspunter February 17, 2019 2:07 PM GMT
They are correct, as long as May doesn't call a snap election.
Report aaronh February 17, 2019 2:43 PM GMT

Feb 17, 2019 -- 5:46AM, drive for show putt for dough wrote:


Feb 15, 2019 -- 4:15PM, politicspunter wrote:I am not sure where folks get this brexit Labour stuff idea. I don't recall it having a huge impact when Labour turned the polls around at the last election.At the last election many people voted labour thinking they had no chance and to prevent a tory landslide. Walking in the polling booth and putting an x by corbyns name and realising that waking up the next day he may be PM will focus the minds of many.Its hard to imagine how May could perform her role worse yet she still has a lead in the polls. No chance Jezza wins an election far more likely to be absolutely routed


this idea that people are happy to vote for the perceived no hoper or underdog is a bit weird.

the idea that it was a landslide was fading by the day in the polls so that kind of reasoning seems a bit flawed anyway.

Report n88uk February 17, 2019 4:34 PM GMT
Clearly it's absolute rubbish. We're meant to believe people just pity voted knowing he couldn't win, just rubbish.

Labour's main winner last election was driving young people to vote for them, especially as it's normally the hardest demographic to get to the polls full stop.

Even the fear some might have of Corbyn as PM gets dampened by the week when many will simply think not like things can be any worse than the current lot.
Report n88uk February 17, 2019 4:37 PM GMT
There was also a massive underestimation from Tories last election that they basically just had to turn up for a slaughter. Thus there was nothing actually vote winning in their policies.
Report politicspunter February 17, 2019 4:43 PM GMT
Agreed. Also worth noting that Labour also targeted folks that normally didn't/rarely vote.
Report InsiderTrader February 17, 2019 4:59 PM GMT
It was only over 50s that voted more for Tories than Labour in 2017..

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election

The timebomb is home ownership.

The more house prices are propped up by government (Blair and then the Tories) the more people are going to vote for socialism.

If people have no captial why vote for capitalism?

Tories need to do something to get the cost of housing down.
Report politicspunter February 17, 2019 5:06 PM GMT
They also need to come up with a care plan for the elderly that wasn't written on the back of a **** packet.
Report politicspunter February 17, 2019 5:06 PM GMT
cigarette then!
Report BARROWBOY February 17, 2019 5:16 PM GMT
I’m not sure corbyn numbers with the young will holdup at the next GE..his failure to back a second referendum will be held against him,& there’s also that small matter of tuition fees that he fooled many to vote for him last time.
Report aaronh February 17, 2019 5:31 PM GMT

Feb 17, 2019 -- 10:59AM, InsiderTrader wrote:


It was only over 50s that voted more for Tories than Labour in 2017..https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/06/13/how-b... timebomb is home ownership. The more house prices are propped up by government (Blair and then the Tories) the more people are going to vote for socialism.If people have no captial why vote for capitalism?Tories need to do something to get the cost of housing down.


Talking sense for once IT. People making silly generalisations for the most part on why someone like Corbyn is popular is not going to help them defeat him.

The demographics are coming to kill the Tories unless something dramatic changes.

Even latest post in this thread is acting like the tuition fees policy was like this major vote winner when those people were already voting for Labour anyway.

Report politicspunter February 17, 2019 5:42 PM GMT
Ah, but now so were their parents and grandparents.
Report BARROWBOY February 17, 2019 5:46 PM GMT
The under 25 turnout in 2017 was the highest since 1992,are you disputing that the promise on tuition fees was  a factor in motivating that increase ?
Report thegiggilo February 17, 2019 6:05 PM GMT
What about all the new young voters,as far as i can see the majority are going to vote labour that includes my daughter and majority of people she knows,i know when i was her age i was interested in politucs but that was aroud thatcher era so electiins were depressing..She was telling me about politics lessons at sixth form and although she doesn't take the subject,they openly laugh at trump,may and tommy robertson gets reguary destroyedHappy
Report aaronh February 17, 2019 6:06 PM GMT
It's nowhere near as simple as that.

Brexit already awakened a lot of young voters and the 2017 campaign built on that a lot in the way they campaigned. You may not be convinced by what he says but there was a rhetoric from Corbyn that was different to other leaders and a suggestion that a vote for Labour would be something different than the status quo.

BTW, do we realise that there are a lot of 18-24s that aren't actually students and yet they seem to basically be ignored in any analysis. but for the students, an increased turnout for the most part just sees them stacking up bigger wins in cities more than anything else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_election#Voter_demographics
Report thegiggilo February 17, 2019 6:15 PM GMT
I live in a strong tory seat as well i went to that same sixth form and i can say in those days students were compliant and brainwashed by the rightwing media,those days are gone thankfully for the better and even though the nutjobs on here think everythings PC and they are dekuded thinking we're going to be some populist coutry like the US...I have some news fir them,most people in his country despise Trump and out countrys going into the complete opposite direction,maybe some of it is a little too PC  but in general most of its for the better.Even the torys look like liberals compared to the thatcher era nowadays,things are changing bigtime.
Report lfc1971 February 17, 2019 6:24 PM GMT
That’s  nonsense , students were always leftists it’s not any different now from decades ago , they grow out of it
Well some do
Report thegiggilo February 17, 2019 6:36 PM GMT
Students,youngsters more pro active now and think for themselves,not fed rightwing propaganda and if they are they dismiss it thankfully unlike over the last 30 years where they believed everything they were told and influenced by parents,good to see..
Report lfc1971 February 17, 2019 6:48 PM GMT
Students don’t think for themselves , that’s the problem
What has changed however is something else  , it’s the nature of the people who can vote now compared to 30 or 40 years ago
There are millions more immigrants who tend to vote vote labour do the countries changed
And students , and the general population are less intelligent now than then
Report lfc1971 February 17, 2019 6:54 PM GMT
I don’t think there is much doubt that the Conservative party is in decline , that appears to be inevitable because England is changing
That’s not good by the way
Report politicspunter February 17, 2019 6:55 PM GMT
The free tuition fees route gets votes and seats. The LibDem vote shot up when they promised it (but dived when they reneged in coalition. Labours vote shot up under Corbyn. The SNP have had this policy for years in Scotland.
If the tories tackle it they can nullify a big part of their opponents appeal.
Report aaronh February 17, 2019 6:56 PM GMT
Students don’t think for themselves , that’s the problem


LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report aaronh February 17, 2019 6:57 PM GMT
lfc last on a campus 30 years ago, if ever

much like all these experts on student politics and what it is like
Report thegiggilo February 17, 2019 6:59 PM GMT
They are a lot more intelligent my daughters exams wwre 10x harder than when i took 'o' levels and she got A* and A's same at primary school my 7 year old is miles ahead,they even have french classes at lunch time..The young are so much better informed than years ago,no more sun newspaper to exploit the masses with rightwing crap,those days are gone,things are looking rosey..Happy
Report lfc1971 February 17, 2019 7:03 PM GMT
That’s as maybe , but of course if these young people are so intelligent perhaps you can name a few who have done something
something intelligent
You see in the past British people did intelligent things , and you knew their names and what they did
Any examples today ?
Report yajyaj February 17, 2019 7:06 PM GMT
Err, Party planning maybe ?
Report lfc1971 February 17, 2019 7:07 PM GMT
: )
Report InsiderTrader February 17, 2019 8:33 PM GMT
The reality is the over 50s who vote Tory got cheap housing and free university.

This was before most women worked and mass immigration started.

Now house prices take account of two earners and a massively increased population.

So what happens when an English couple want to have a family on one income.. the answer is without welfare they simply cannot do it.

The Tories need to recognise this and bring in a system to massively increase the number of affordable decent housing that does not simply involve taking on more debt.

University should be free for UK citizens and the number of places available needs to be cut to stop the milking by second rate universities and 'lecturers'.
Report enpassant February 17, 2019 9:09 PM GMT
^ I think you're wanted over on your  'Macron blinked first' thread geez
Report differentdrum February 18, 2019 2:43 PM GMT
Well seven brave enough to make the move.

It will interesting to see how many of the others are seen to be more mouth than courage when it comes to making decisions. People like Owen Smith, Wes Streeting and Ben Bradshaw. If they truly believed in what they have been saying they should already be with the seven.
Report differentdrum February 18, 2019 4:25 PM GMT
One lefty after another trotted out to defend the party and rubbish the seven. None of them taking any responsibility. 

Clive Lewis suggesting they should have stayed and fought from within. What does he think they have been doing? Only the other week he himself was castigating Corbyn for not supporting a second referendum. Has Corbyn taken the slightest bit of notice? Total hypocrite.
Report politicspunter February 18, 2019 4:28 PM GMT
Who is a hypocrite?

Someone that wishes to represent their constituents in the party they were selected for or...

Someone that is just there to collect their salary leaving the party that constituents voted for?
Report treetop February 18, 2019 5:18 PM GMT
The party has changed in recent years, much more racist,perfectly understandable they reconsider their allegiance. I would be interested to know how many MP's follow due to Remain positions or anti Semitism.
Report enpassant February 18, 2019 5:43 PM GMT

Feb 18, 2019 -- 11:18AM, treetop wrote:


The party has changed in recent years, much more racist,perfectly understandable they reconsider their allegiance. I would be interested to know how many MP's follow due to Remain positions or anti Semitism.


Ffs what a lot of tosh. Do you honestly believe the things you post ?

Report differentdrum February 18, 2019 5:48 PM GMT
It's a lot better than the blinkered tosh you continually post.

I look forward to your comments once Corbyn takes Labour over the cliff.
Report politicspunter February 18, 2019 6:08 PM GMT
You would be better looking at the worst prime minister of the modern era-Theresa May.
Report enpassant February 18, 2019 6:19 PM GMT

Feb 18, 2019 -- 11:48AM, differentdrum wrote:


It's a lot better than the blinkered tosh you continually post. I look forward to your comments once Corbyn takes Labour over the cliff.


Name it fella and we can debate it. What specifically do you say is tosh that I post ?

Report enpassant February 18, 2019 6:30 PM GMT
Well let me start : Angela Smith on the water companies ; She backed the Labour manifesto for nationalisation. She now wants privatisation cranked up. She sits on The All Party Parliamentary Water Group- funded by..............private water companies .....go !
Report treetop February 19, 2019 11:08 PM GMT
In answer to your question  ep , yes I do believe Labour are more racist than they were and their real problem has been the tacit support from the top of anti semitism instead of rapid condemnation which we would normally get on such an issue.
Report enpassant February 19, 2019 11:21 PM GMT
If you base your conclusion on media stories then I accept it would be hard not to believe that. If you take the stats then that conclusion is virtually untenable.
The line between the abhorrent antisemitic and anti- zionism has been blurred by callous political spin imo.
Report differentdrum February 21, 2019 9:07 AM GMT
Of the 11 it seems only one was a relatively spontaneous move. So my guess would now be a slight pause in movement.

The next triggerpoint will probably be the next Labour meeting.

If Watson hit Corbyn over the head with a sledgehammer I don't would think it produce a change of direction. It begs the question what is the point of Watson? Beyond giving Labour a fake softer side it appears nothing. He says something, Corbyn just ignores him. He has zero clout.

Corbyn is just content to throw a couple more sandbags on to keep out the flood. It is all too defensive. He will appease nobody who is seriously thinking of leaving.
Report enpassant February 21, 2019 12:53 PM GMT
It will be a cold calculated media orientated drip drip splurge of 'splitters' to maximize publicity.
Report yajyaj February 21, 2019 3:22 PM GMT
Corbyn having a bad 3 minutes on sky , scene 1...snuggling up to Verhofstadt with his customs union, scene 2... explaining why he wants Shamima home Cry
Report enpassant February 21, 2019 3:29 PM GMT
You would rather we break international law ?
Report enpassant February 21, 2019 3:38 PM GMT
If you want the man down the pub to make up the countries laws then by all means say so.


Just look at the headings-
'Let Shamima Begum return' - Corbyn

When what he actually said was-
"She was born in Britain, she has that right to remain in Britain"

JRM was just as clear in making the same point.
Report yajyaj February 21, 2019 5:35 PM GMT
Not at all, we're clinging on to the mothers passport scenario, failing that the husbands, that aside put it to a referendum and I would guess 65/35 in favour of keeping her out, point I was making is his words wont be popular the same as jrm's wer'nt
Report enpassant February 21, 2019 5:50 PM GMT
She was born here- there is no dual citizenship in this case- she is our responsibility and there is no escaping that fact despite Sajid Javed playing to the crowd in advance of a failed leadership bid.
Yes it is already being used by the media (not remotely in the same way as Mogg was reported btw) to put a negative connotation on his words. So yes it will not go down well for the knee jerk brigade. When the boot is on the other foot thoughhow would the same people feel if we were told to keep a thief/rapist/terrorist by another country because they made that person stateless ?

If it's not the rule of law it is anarchy or dictatorship.
Report yajyaj February 21, 2019 5:57 PM GMT
Cant fault you enp, I think popularity of the mob is more important for corbs than Moggy though. If the boot was on the other foot, I would hope we would chuck a few quid at another Country to keep her, we are of course the 5th largest GDP in the world and everything's got its price Plain
Report enpassant February 21, 2019 8:03 PM GMT
Oh lord I hope not (re price). You are likely to be quite right about the popularity stakes because JRM has a media presenting him in a jaunty positive English chappie way whereas Corbyn is cast as the villain at every turn (even if he is not responsible !)
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