Forums
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
tony57
09 Jul 18 15:09
Joined:
Date Joined: 13 Oct 10
| Topic/replies: 11,294 | Blogger: tony57's blog
https://briefingsforbrexit.com/brexit-the-next-campaign-by-a-former-civil-servant/
Share |
Pause Switch to Standard View brexit the next campaign
Show More
Loading...
Report bigpoppapump July 10, 2018 5:43 PM BST
IT has his own meaning for the word establishment.

hence, you are talking fundamentally different languages and are each doomed to having a frustrating exchange of ideas.

IT's definition (of Establishment) is revealing of his prejudices (I'd say ideas, but don't want to misuse that word Happy  ).

IT is a frustrated individual who cannot accept good faith views could be held which differ from his own.  He can only make ad hominem points and is most likely spending too much time on web sites which are not doing him any good.  His world view is closed and fundamentally not his own.  He parrots things he's read which appeal to him.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 10, 2018 6:39 PM BST
PP..right now there are more eastern european shops??? yes your right LOL..ffs they are everywere...none of you lot who love immigration have answers to these problems only


Again. Why is it a problem? Would you rather see the shop boarded up?
Report InsiderTrader July 10, 2018 7:18 PM BST
As Tony says its too many low wage people coming in too quickly meaning stretching resources locally.

Would people like PP put any limit on immigration?
Report tony57 July 10, 2018 7:48 PM BST
if you noticed the last post i put up 3/4 of people asked said we are full....so i imagine the other 1/4 are lib dems who live in london who have cheap labour looking after there kids?

the point you make is a fair one..would i rather the shops were closed?..no..but if there are too many here it means there is strain elsewere..so shops being open makes no difference..and if you ask these people they tell you the money they make is sent home?..not spent here..but why would that matter to you..
Report tony57 July 10, 2018 7:52 PM BST
While Tory civil war rages, we in Labour should not look on with glee. 70% of our constituencies and 5 million of our voters supported Brexit- a proper Brexit. Most people now want us to get on with delivering it. We need to be ready to deliver a clean Brexit if the Tories fail.

26 replies 75 retweets 156 likes
Reply 26   Retweet 75   Like 156   Direct messagehttps://twitter.com/BrendanChiltonhttps://twitter.com/labourleave
Report tony57 July 10, 2018 7:54 PM BST
0 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
Reply   Retweeted 1   Like   Direct message
Labour Leave Retweeted

Ed Rennie


@edrennie77
2h2 hours ago
More
I think the EU will accept May's proposals, because they tie the UK to the EU in exactly the way the EU wants us tied to them
Report InsiderTrader July 10, 2018 8:06 PM BST
tony57
10 Jul 18 19:52
Joined: 13 Oct 10
| Topic/replies: 11,198 | Blogger: tony57's blog
While Tory civil war rages, we in Labour should not look on with glee. 70% of our constituencies and 5 million of our voters supported Brexit.

^

And the top the Labour leadership support Brexit behind closed doors.

The MP majority (of both parties) support remain. When over 70% of all constituencies support LEAVE.

Farage will be back to take on each and every leave  constituency when their MP voted to betray Brexit. Personally I would like him to contest the Broxtowe one next election if Brexit is not delivered.
Report InsiderTrader July 10, 2018 8:07 PM BST
I am guessing that the likes of Gove think lets just get out of the EU next March. Then whatever 'deal' is signed up to now can be changed at a later date. The key thing right now is to get out of the EU.
Report SontaranStratagem July 10, 2018 8:23 PM BST

Jul 10, 2018 -- 7:54PM, tony57 wrote:


0 replies 1 retweet 0 likesReply   Retweeted 1   Like   Direct message Labour Leave RetweetedEd Rennie‏ @edrennie77 2h2 hours agoMoreI think the EU will accept May's proposals, because they tie the UK to the EU in exactly the way the EU wants us tied to them


Yes. And people keep saying they want the ECJ and Human Rights kept, which they will be for anyone coming in from the EU countries, it will only effect anyone born here in the UK with the removal of the european courts and Human Rights.

They wont tell you this in the news though, they keep bringing up pointless thinks like trade deals etc.

Report tony57 July 11, 2018 7:57 AM BST
nonsense..human rights? we have the most freedom in this country than anywere..we had them before we joined,and we have them now..we will keep them if we leave..human rights..im amazed adults can claim such things? ECJ yes..the majority of the british people dont want a foriegn court letting terrorists or beasts stay in this country when a britsh judge has thrown them out...ourlaws are not behind any in the eu i can assure you..ive lived in the eu..give me britsh justice anyday..
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 11, 2018 8:16 AM BST
and if you ask these people they tell you the money they make is sent home?.


Evidence please.
Report bigpoppapump July 11, 2018 9:09 AM BST
ECJ yes..the majority of the british people dont want a foriegn court letting terrorists or beasts stay in this country when a britsh judge has thrown them out...ourlaws are not behind any in the eu i can assure you..ive lived in the eu..give me britsh justice anyday..

and there's the reason a second referendum would have the same result.

people actually believe this sort of stuff.
Report Dr Crippen July 11, 2018 9:15 AM BST
so i imagine the other 1/4 are lib dems who live in london who have cheap labour looking after there kids?

Or immigrants themselves who want to see more of their own kind  coming here.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 11, 2018 11:40 AM BST
I know brexiters are accused of harking back to some bygone age but I didn't realise it was the late 40s.

Now we're being told the government is stockpiling tinned food.


Brexit means Rationing.


Catchy.
Report Dr Crippen July 11, 2018 12:27 PM BST
The bygone age most Britains hark back to is the one before this happened:

http://www.oann.com/report-white-brits-will-soon-be-minority-in-birmingham-u-k/
Report Dr Crippen July 11, 2018 12:28 PM BST
Before PP's lot started to take over.
Report tony57 July 12, 2018 12:32 PM BST
PP EVIDENCE?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017817/Poles-sending-home-3bn-year--pay-4-5m-week-benefits.html

https://www.ft.com/content/3b3f1bee-63bc-11e6-a08a-c7ac04ef00aa

FT..good enough ?
Report tony57 July 12, 2018 12:34 PM BST
bigbop..
you sound more like crippen....british justice is as good as any in the world..the justice system in europe has many problems i can assure you..
Report tony57 July 12, 2018 12:49 PM BST
the FT article is eye opening....they earn the money fair play..but the argument about the money and dont forget the benefits they recive going home is a big one...imo..what they do with wages is their priority..but benefits should not be going abroad..

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/europeans-can-carry-on-sending-benefits-to-families-back-home-after-brexit-klf6x8r86
Report tony57 July 12, 2018 5:18 PM BST
PP were are you?..evidence..?answer please..is that enough for you?
Report tony57 July 12, 2018 6:38 PM BST
ONS data: Between 2005 and 2014, 90% of additional households created in England were headed by a person who was born abroad. Increased pressure & demand for housing is seen as one of the main negative impacts of immigration, according to YouGov.Our brief: https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/housing …
Report tony57 July 12, 2018 6:52 PM BST
https://twitter.com/John_Mills_JML

The Government has given too much away. This is not the Brexit that people voted for. 1/7
Theresa May's red lines have turned pink. When she goes into the next round of talks with the EU, the UK may well be pressed to give even more ground. 2/7

2 replies 17 retweets 22 likes
Reply 2   Retweet 17   Like 22   Direct message

he UK economy has suffered from decades of under-investment and mismanagement. The £100 billion balance of payments deficit we have with the EU is symptomatic of the imbalances which plague the UK economy. 3/7

2 replies 13 retweets 17 likes
Reply 2   Retweet 13   Like 17   Direct message

Immigration has also played a role, diluting GDP per head in the country. 4/7



Brexit could have provided an opportunity to recast our economy, so it worked for everyone. It was an opportunity to design an economy that healed the divides in this country; the divides between North and South and the divides between the generations. 5/7

2 replies 13 retweets 24 likes
Reply 2   Retweet 13   Like 24   Direct message

I have long been an advocate for investment in heavy and light industry. That should have been part of the positive plan and vision for the UK post-Brexit. 6/7



Instead, Theresa May has approached Brexit through the lens of crisis mitigation rather than grabbing the opportunity to transform our country and economy with both hands. 7/7

a true labour hero...
Report InsiderTrader July 12, 2018 8:27 PM BST
tony57
12 Jul 18 17:18
Joined: 13 Oct 10
| Topic/replies: 11,212 | Blogger: tony57's blog
PP were are you?..evidence..?answer please..is that enough for you?


^

What PP does in situations where he is caught out is not respond directly. Then in a couple of months he will make the same false claims and ask for evidence. You will then provide the evidence again and he will not respond again. He has done this to me many times in regard to next negative effect of EU immigration to the UK.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 12, 2018 8:49 PM BST
tony - just checking. You claim you're a Labour voter (well...), are you advocating the government make a check on everyone receiving benefits and deciding how they can and can't spend that money?


Would you be happy if a 50-year old from Seaforth who has had to take early retirement was told what he could spend his money on and which members of his family or bills he could pay?


Would you want that to be part of the next Labour manifesto?
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 12, 2018 8:50 PM BST
sorry everyone, didn't realise i had you all on tenterhooks.


Was off doing something else if that's allowed.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 12, 2018 8:57 PM BST
Part B of above question

Would you be happy if said Seaforth benefit claimant moved to Spain, had his money transferred to his account there and spent it in Spain?
Report tony57 July 13, 2018 10:10 AM BST
you asked for evidence ..i gave it too you..you now ask me my opinion on benefits ..i said with eu nationals..i belive spending them should ltd to the uk economy...how british nationals spend there money anywere is there buisness?? the same way a polish person should spend there benefits were ever ..but when you are a foriegn national receiving state help rather than it being sent back to the home country to build homes..i think it should be spent in the country were they receive it? i realise this is not going to happen..its a opinion..


your problem is when you are shown up in your opinions you divert to another, ive gave you evidence that eu you nationals are sending billions back home that could stimulate the british economy
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 13, 2018 10:32 AM BST
So you agree that the government shouldn't be imposing on people how to spend their benefits. No eye in the sky saying not to buy cigarettes, lottery tickets or crisps. Presumably, that also includes buying things from China via ebay. They're free to do that aren't they?


Unless it's foreigners. If someone is foreign then there should be extra rules. Because they're foreign. Not British. Foreign. That is the one and only reason people should be restricted in how they spend their money. There's a word for that I reckon.

If they're foreign, they have to forget supporting family members. Just forget them. Help in buying food? Let them starve! Birthday presents? Send a whatsapp video! They're foreign, they should understand they deserve fewer rights than other people.


As for your last sentence, I appreciate you answered. I'm simply responding to a point you made. Not diverting, it's called debate.

FWIW, I spent several years working overseas and I continued to send money back. I supported my mum, I helped pay our mortgage as the rent wasn't covering it, I'd buy loads of stuff and get it sent to my mum's for her to bring over.

Are you saying that should no longer be allowed? Or is it ok if it's a Brit overseas rather than a foreigner here? Just wondering what kind of state controls you're looking to impose on how we spend our money.
Report tony57 July 13, 2018 7:44 PM BST
again..i know you like to divert..my point is IF ITS BENEFITS from the host country? so you say its ok for us to give billions away to people who just send it home to poorer countrys..if they are working ..good on them they can send that home...but why is it ok for billions to be given to eu countrys ..thats all your doing..it ends up in east european countrys?...so please dont divert away from my point...how many british ex pats are getting spanish benefits and sending it home PP?..I,LL TELL YOU..NOT FU.CN MANY..
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 13, 2018 8:00 PM BST
So to confirm, you'd like the government to decree how people can and can't spend their benefits.

But only the foreign people.

If the Labour Party could see you now.
Report tony57 July 13, 2018 9:40 PM BST
yes they would be proud that i want the best for british tax payers..not giving away money, the sick the disabled the army all need? again how many brits would do this? ..you carnt answer cos you know its very little..yet we give billions to people to send to there own country?..i think if you asked the british people they would want it cut as much as possiable..
Report tony57 July 13, 2018 9:46 PM BST
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5948015/Englands-state-secondary-school-pupil-numbers-rise-400-000-2027.html

in other words, british kids will find it harder to get the school of the parents choice ...wonder if PP might get worried if he carnt get his kids in the school they want?
again we have too many people in this country...the eu will allow 500k migrants in this year all will be able to come to the uk and how will we be able to get them out?say 100k come? already 280k are coming every year..seems migrants are not as worried as remainers are about the economy after brexit?
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 13, 2018 9:58 PM BST
I can't answer because - thankfully - I don't live in a fascist state that records and controls how its citizens spends their money. That's why I can't answer.

You want to impose on people based on their passport alone. You want them to be less free, to have fewer rights than we enjoy.That's something I can answer. Probably got that idea from the Mail to be fair.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 13, 2018 9:59 PM BST
Question -  In your dream totalitarian state, just how would you stop foreigners spending money overseas? What would the mechanism be? How would you monitor their spending?
Report InsiderTrader July 13, 2018 10:00 PM BST
That article suggests non-British born women have higher fertility rates and this is leading the boom in numbers of kids needing school. First a Primary School crisis then Secondary in around 9 years time.

Of course people like PP will no doubt deny this.
Report moisok July 13, 2018 10:04 PM BST
do not bring up Bradford please
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 13, 2018 10:38 PM BST
Maybe we should sterilise them. Alternatively, maybe we should force our natives to breed more. Maybe some kind of punishment for childless women. Maybe get our fertile women into some kind of group and give them to our elite males to ensure we create a superior brand of human.

Under his eye.
Report tony57 July 13, 2018 10:54 PM BST
as you know well..i do not want to stop anyone being free..i want to stop my country being taken advantage of by people who dont have our living standards..i do not blame them...i blame the goverment and the eu..but i ask again ive proven billions leave our country to go to poland ..never mind the other countrys..(im not worried about eu nations who have our living standards)i dont think its right..i would stop the payments, why do we pay child tax credits to migrants? ive no problem with refugees..thats the right thing to do..but rumanians?bulgarians? do you think its right billions leave our country to build homes in these countrys pp?
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 13, 2018 11:02 PM BST
I'll repeat it.

How would you stop these people of lower living standards spending money outside of the UK?

What would the mechanism be? How would you identify how and where the money is spent and thus control it?
Report tony57 July 13, 2018 11:10 PM BST
i would either not give it to them or give it in food vouchers that can only be spent in this country..but answer the question, your ok with billions leaving the uk to build homes for eu nationals?
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 13, 2018 11:29 PM BST
Yes, I am absolutely fine with it.

I believe people should be able to spend their money how they please.

If they have a job they can invest in shares, give it to charity or blow it on booze and ****.

If the relevant authorities assess someone's circumstances and deem they are worthy of benefits then the same thing applies.


They are grown ups, and unless they have a problem and need assistance in making decisions then adults should be free to do as they please with their money once they've paid whatever dues they owe.


I couldn't care less if they are British, Polish or Indian. The same applies to everyone. I think it actually shows something about a person's character that he would still help his family out back home and sacrifice his own money for them. Definitely a plus point to someone's character to have a bit of kindness and to think of others rather than the selfishness we see in others.
Report tony57 July 13, 2018 11:37 PM BST
thats not my point as you well know..but you are open borders, and have no problems with tax payers money being used to build homes abroad? good for you...i find it sad...i will say again..i like to see you when you or your family struggle cos of the numbers in this country...
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 13, 2018 11:54 PM BST
Do you honestly think there are people here living on benefits who are doing so well out of it that they can afford to keep enough money to one side to build their own house?

Where do these people live? Legoland?

I mean, do you honestly believe that? I'm sure the Mail or Migrationwatch would like you to believe that but, taking a step back, do you still actually believe it?


As for my family, my wife is already one of these immigrants, maybe someone you'd sneer at for her "lower living standards". She's put up with all manner of racist abuse, both full on "f*ck off to your own country" type bile and the more gentle, everyday kind by so called friends and colleagues. So careful preaching about struggles right now. It's not great welcoming her home and wondering if she's going to be sobbing about the sh!t she's had to put up with.

If you want to blame someone for lack of school places then why not have a look at investment. Immigrants have been a real boon to this country. Why haven't we built enough schools to accommodate the predictable extra numbers, use the extra tax income and revenue generated to invest instead of doing the opposite? As usual, the answer is actual under our control but they'd rather you blame the foreign family at the end of the street instead. No wonder when so many fall for it so easily.
Report tony57 July 14, 2018 12:01 AM BST
what are you on about? im on about eu nationals you tool..who send billions abroad from money given them by the uk..

again ive no problem with immigration?ive a problem with uncontrolled immigration, and now i know why you are the way you are..if your mrs is french dutch irish spanish no one could give a toss..no one cares were anyone is from as long as its done right? not allowing white people from east europe to come in anytime..but pakistan or indians who died for us in the war have to jump through hoops..thats ****n racist mate...
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 14, 2018 12:12 AM BST
Do you believe that there are EU nationals here, living on benefits, who can afford to send enough money home to build a house? Really?

I mean, you must know some people on benefits. How plausible do you really think that is?




Regarding my mrs - is your opinion of her different if she's from Ireland or she's from Romania? Would she be somehow lesser, somehow more deserving of racial abuse if the latter? Also the comment about "white people", what's that about? Would she be better in your eyes if she was black or Indian?
Report tony57 July 14, 2018 12:17 AM BST
hang on ..you saw the proof how much money goes to these countrys they live on 150 a month? plus they are working ..and get working tax credits..if they cannot afford it whos sending the money ?
Report tony57 July 14, 2018 12:19 AM BST
the point is white europeans can enter the uk..while commonwealth countrys can not..thats racist policy..jesus you either dont read what ive posted or your very ignorant..
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 14, 2018 12:30 AM BST
It's not proof. It's an article from a biased publication. It's not proof of anything.

Think for yourself for a second. Do you think someone living in the UK could survive on benefits and have enough left over to be able to afford to build a house? Do you honestly believe that?





We have a reciprocal arrangement with Europe. We can travel, live and work freely there and they can do the same here. What's racist about it? Plenty more reciprocal benefits outside of that too as it happens.


Anyway, back to your previous point - do you view my wife differently if you know she's Irish or if she's Romanian?
Report InsiderTrader July 14, 2018 3:01 AM BST
PorcupineorPineapple
13 Jul 18 23:54
Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 5,439 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
Do you honestly think there are people here living on benefits who are doing so well out of it that they can afford to keep enough money to one side to build their own house?

Where do these people live? Legoland?

I mean, do you honestly believe that? I'm sure the Mail or Migrationwatch would like you to believe that but, taking a step back, do you still actually believe it?


As for my family, my wife is already one of these immigrants, maybe someone you'd sneer at for her "lower living standards". She's put up with all manner of racist abuse, both full on "f*ck off to your own country" type bile and the more gentle, everyday kind by so called friends and colleagues. So careful preaching about struggles right now. It's not great welcoming her home and wondering if she's going to be sobbing about the sh!t she's had to put up with.

If you want to blame someone for lack of school places then why not have a look at investment. Immigrants have been a real boon to this country. Why haven't we built enough schools to accommodate the predictable extra numbers, use the extra tax income and revenue generated to invest instead of doing the opposite? As usual, the answer is actual under our control but they'd rather you blame the foreign family at the end of the street instead. No wonder when so many fall for it so easily.


^

I am sorry for your personal circumstances. But please do not allow that to cloud your judgement. Your statement that Immigrants have been a real boon to this country is false and you know it is false because we have been through the data on this time and time again.

1. They generally earn less than the amount that would be required if they were applying from outside the EU.
2. It is impossible to plan schools, doctors and so on if you have open borders so you have no idea how many people will be here.

We are all for the kind of immigrants that are a 'real boon to this country' but lets control the numbers so our public services can be planned for and lets take the ones in genuine needs from throughout the world and those who are the brightest and best. Lets get British people off the streets and so on before we open up to everyone.
Report InsiderTrader July 14, 2018 3:14 AM BST
* Just to be clear to be able to bring a non-EU spouse to the UK you have to earning at least £18,600 a year. 41% of the British working population earn below this.
Report InsiderTrader July 14, 2018 3:16 AM BST
If you have one or more non-EEA child it goes up to £22,400.

There is a clear bias in the system in favour of Europeans.
Report moisok July 14, 2018 4:07 PM BST
porky wants to fill up the country till it sinks beneath the waves and defends it for very selfish reasons
Report tony57 July 14, 2018 7:09 PM BST
it is proof..so the ft is biased against immigrants and posts lies..?

yes we have a agreement..but my point is and always has been..if the agreement is with countrys who have same standard of living thats one thing..but when you have it with coun trys that live on 200 a month..then they come here earn that a week and send money home to build homes and pay family....im sorry you are a very wrong and ignorant...you now dismiss truth cos its against your narrative..you dare attack others for doing that..

e.g poland average wage a month...425 euros...they get that in benefits here..so the job they get is win win for them..and you think my prove is wrong and not factual...#bulls.it
ttps://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/585860/Foreign-aid-British-Migrants-11bn-other-countries-year
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 14, 2018 7:33 PM BST
So, to confirm, you- a supposed Labour supporter - are in favour of benefit claimants being given food vouchers rather than actual money.

From what I guess, you would allow people freedom if they're Brits or even Irish or French. But not Romanian. Definitely not Romanian.

Doesn't matter on the person's circumstances or need. Doesn't matter if they've ever sent money back or not or if they've ever worked on the side, purely based on their race you'd happily discriminate against them.

Is that a fair summation of your posts in the last 24 hours?
Report tony57 July 14, 2018 8:31 PM BST
no not fair..ive explained the opinion..ive given articles to prove the point..you on the other hand base all your opinions on the fact you mrs is not british ? i couldnt care if she was from new zealand, the point i make is valad....british taxpayers are helping to pay for homes in poland or other such countrys..but the british are not doing the same...yet im meant to be made to feel that im being anti immigration...how dare i...
Report moisok July 14, 2018 9:12 PM BST
porky has other selfish interests which over rule what might be the interest of the whole of the population

you will find this is the case with many remainers

particularly the more senior(if I can call them that) ones
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 14, 2018 10:00 PM BST
Sorry.

But you did say you'd be in favour of some benefit claimants being either denied or paid in food vouchers. Thats a fact isn't it. I can give you the exact time.

And you did relate it to certain nationalities of lower living standards. Yes? You backed that up again with your line about average wage in Poland.

It's all there.

So I think you must agree my first paragraph is fair. You have said some people should be refused cash and paid in food vouchers.

And I think the second is fair too. You made a point about certain nationalities having a lower living standard and compared Ireland v France.

Again, it's all there.

I think the final one is fair too. You spoke of simply blocking people from certain countries receiving cash benefits. You didn't seek to differentiate between those caught sending huge sums over to build a house and those struggling to have a clean uniform for their kid.

Not sure which part of your opinion I've missed to be honest.
Report tony57 July 16, 2018 2:04 PM BST
you missed it all...my point is eu nationals who receive child benefit or tax credits should not be allowed to take it out of the country to build homes abroad..when we dont do it in there countrys..i said if they could be given food vouches or other vouchers to stop it then i would..only eu nationals ..cos of the point i made.....

as you well know my point is not aimed at poor british nationals or poor eu nationals..but those who have good jobs and still receive these benefits and do as ive said...you on the other hand would give away everything ...
]
the whole point of certain countrys have lower living standards is they come here to get better standards so i dont know why thats a problem for you when the evidence is in your face...
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 16, 2018 2:10 PM BST
So you are in favour of people being denied cash benefits but being paid in vouchers, solely on the basis of their nationality (if they're from a country with lower living standards) and if they're working.


Doesn't matter if they've never sent any money back, if they've never broken any laws, no matter how long they've been living here. You'd simply do it because they're from a poorer country.







You keep saying I've got it wrong, but you just keep repeating it over and over again.
Report tony57 July 16, 2018 2:16 PM BST
the reason ive said it..you miss that? how do you stop money leaving the country?
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 16, 2018 2:27 PM BST
So you're ok with British people spending money overseas.

You just don't want foreigners to enjoy the same rights.
Report tony57 July 16, 2018 2:32 PM BST
ive asked you plenty of times..show me were british people are claiming benefits in poland or other eastern eu countrys and sending it back to the uk?
Report tony57 July 16, 2018 2:33 PM BST
5billion a year...average..leaves uk..
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 16, 2018 2:45 PM BST
I'm not talking about them overseas.


For example,

You have 30 year old Jenny from Bootle who works and gets child benefit. She is in a relationship with a new guy who's doing well so she's comparatively well off. So, she is now able to spend more. Her mum moved to Malaga a few years ago and is not rich so she sends some money to her every month to help her pay for bills, otherwise she'd never be able to afford flights back to see her grandchildren.

You also have Julja, also living in Bootle who also works and gets benefits. She is living with her husband and kids and isn't particularly well off. However, her mum back in Poland is also not well off so they send what they can afford back to her to help her pay bills and help her out after the sacrifices she made for her growing up.




So, just to confirm. You are fine with Jenny but want to forcibly stop Julja?
Report tony57 July 16, 2018 3:06 PM BST
if they work and earn their money how could i have a problem? as l,ong as its not the child benefit or tax credits that goes back ive no problem..but i ask you again what about the british abroad..we dont send money back to uk from poland?..you know why? cos we dont get it..but we give it out here while making our own beg?..you might be ok with that..im not..
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 16, 2018 3:49 PM BST
I don't care what they do with it. I've already told you. I don't care where they're from or in which country they're getting their benefits. It's a simple rule that is also universal.


If a person is assessed by the social and is told that they're due a certain number of benefits why should we determine how they should spend it? Should we be telling them they can't buy cigs? Surely that would be a good thing as it is a waste and would save money down the road. Should we look to cut down on childhood obesity and stop them spending too much on fatty foods? Again, there's a real benefit there? The savings to the UK economy could be huge. Why is one person allowed to help their mum pay the bills but the other person isn't? Because the other person's a foreigner? There's a word for that.


See, if you mentioned - just once - that it would depend on individual circumstances. If someone has been proven to be claiming benefits they don't deserve... But you're not interested in that you just want to penalise all Polish benefit claimants no matter how much they otherwise earn, what their circumstances etc? Not once have you even considered that. Just purely looking at their race, that's it. These people from lower living standards.
Report tony57 July 19, 2018 10:56 AM BST
Sadiq Khan's own economic report suggests that leaving the EU in 2019 on WTO terms would lead to to a loss of economic growth of 3% by 2030 but that's less than 0.1% per quarter, and mainly due to loss of EU inward migration so impact on GDP per person would be even more muted

0 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
Reply   Retweet 1   Like   Direct message
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 19, 2018 11:15 AM BST
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 19, 2018 11:15 AM BST
"Not a single job lost" - Corbyn
Report tony57 July 19, 2018 11:18 AM BST
nonsense...jobs will be lost either way..
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 19, 2018 11:32 AM BST
Those are the official government figures. Whether they turn out to be right is not certain yet.

What is certain though is that is the best analysis available to them at this time, so if they are pushing for a No Deal scenario then they are actively working towards something which will cost 2.8m jobs and an 8% reduction in GDP.
Report tony57 July 19, 2018 11:39 AM BST
goverment said when we vote to leave there would be a ressesion? jobs would be lost..etc..all wrong, everything from this govermentsts eu loving civil service has been proven wrong..so i,ll not give it any credence..sorry
Report tony57 July 19, 2018 11:40 AM BST
2.8m jobs 8%gdp...honest PP..your a dreamer..
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 19, 2018 11:44 AM BST
Again, they are not my figures.


The government finally got round to doing a study. I mean, you could say it would have been a good idea before deciding on whether to call the referendum, never mind doing it before people were allowed to vote, but anyway.

They are the government's own figures looking at the scenarios.


You may wish to disagree. Of course you will. Your mates at the Mail and the Spectator have told you the unicorns will be running freely soon. However, those are the figures the government are using so know they are actively pursuing a policy that will at best cost hundreds of thousands of jobs and £40bn.
Report moisok July 19, 2018 11:44 AM BST
'gender has become a battle ground'  - quote from lead item presenter on sky#

self declaring men now are women ho ho  - perv's charter

I am totally sick of the tail wagging the dog.

so much news is about minority interests these days

how about the majority??

Debate on sky 10 am with Bunter - 13 mins broadcast by and for anna soubrey or whatever her name is
calling brexiteers 'let's get rid of these idiot's'  included in her virtually unchallenged rant against brexit

Have all the brexiteers left the country  - sky seem unable to find one!!  complete and utter pro EU propaganda

why don't sky SELF DECLARE themselves as supporters of remain???
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 19, 2018 11:50 AM BST
Turn the beeb on moysey.

I expect to see Farage presenting Homes Under the Hammer he's on the channel that much.
Report moisok July 19, 2018 11:53 AM BST
As I said about SKY  - the pro eu stance is solid on sky and relentless

who actually watches the Brussels Broadcasting Company?
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 19, 2018 11:59 AM BST
You do know Sky is a subscription channel don't you?

That means you choose to pay for it and watch it.


It's a bit like me paying a subscription to a Katy Perry site and then moaning about them playing Katy Perry.
Report moisok July 19, 2018 12:09 PM BST
what's that got to do with it??  You could say that about the bbc, you have to pay for that too.
Don't try your diversionary tactics on here.
Report moisok July 19, 2018 12:10 PM BST
oh I get it now - porky can't actually afford sky
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 19, 2018 12:41 PM BST
Yes, I'm poor moysey.


Is that something I should be derided for?
Report moisok July 19, 2018 2:15 PM BST
you certainly shouldn't have a vote on such important business matters if you are a poorpey - you will know nothing about the higher institutions in life

I nose.

It will be transportation to the colonies for you
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 19, 2018 2:43 PM BST
Ahh, remind us of your labour credentials againLaugh
Report tony57 July 19, 2018 4:37 PM BST
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/eu-doesnt-protect-wor...
Report moisok July 19, 2018 6:19 PM BST
Porky -  They wouldn't let poor people like you into the labour party at the moment.  It is stuffed with careerists and expense fiddlers.  Your type would start questioning why they have so much money and influence and have zero socialism in their blood or in their utterances.  More a vehicle to protect capitalism than anything else.
You would frighten Kinnock the younger and Mr starmer  ho ho
Report tony57 July 20, 2018 10:52 AM BST
https://twitter.com/afneil

World not shunning Brexit Blighty ... so far. Overseas residents made a record 39.2 million visits to the UK in 2017, 4% more than in 2016 http://ow.ly/2zdw30l2ucX

97 replies 169 retweets 378 likes
Reply 97   Retweet 169   Like 378   Direct message

so much for foreigners feeling unwelcome in our country?
Report tony57 July 20, 2018 12:51 PM BST
watched, this week last night..was astounding to see a neil said  sweden are due a election ,and the hard right are ahead in the polls??? sweden?? ffs..this is because of immigration?..PP refuses to see what i and others have said..sweden is glaring at us..the most progressive european country..im amazed..and also sad... i dont want this for britain, but with people like PP and others our country is in danger.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 20, 2018 1:10 PM BST
Fair enough.

Just spoken to my wife who's confirmed she was mistaken and hasn't even seen any racism on these shores.

Good news.
Report tony57 July 20, 2018 2:56 PM BST
what are you on about? the point is if sweden is about to go to the far right because of too much immigration then we have a big problem to come..as for your childish remark..we will never stop it but this country is a great place to live where ever you come from ..


-news/https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uktrue-scale-high-street-crisis-12949711
but look we are members of the eu..and still we lose thousands of jobs..and our high st?mmm...wonder why..couldnt be the eu loves the globel market that destroys these businesses could it? no ..couldnt be..big business wouldnt destroy the small guy would it..the eu protects us...Laugh
Report InsiderTrader July 20, 2018 4:52 PM BST
pp loses the argument so brings up his personal prejudices again.

The best way to make sure the far right and racism thrives, particularly among the working classes, is for the leftists to burying their heads in the sand over the both Labour and the Tory's open border policy.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 20, 2018 5:04 PM BST
What are you cretins wittering on about?

Tony jumps on the tourism bit (makes no mention of the fact that global tourism is up and we're getting a good share after crashing the pound) and tries some huge leap to prove foreigners are all welcome.

As for the sweden thing, well let's wait firstly. It's one poll. I wonder if he got it from the bedroom guy another famous non-racist.

If Sweden does go to the right it won't be because of immigrants, it'll be because of opportunist, populist politicians exploiting and twisting facts and idiots too stupid to think for themselves.
Report InsiderTrader July 20, 2018 6:26 PM BST
There he goes again. Sticking his hand in the sand as immigration surges again.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 20, 2018 6:47 PM BST
So what's my personal prejudice sherlock?


That I'm anti-racism? Are racists now a beleagured group that should be protected from discrimination?



As for this "surge", I reckon you need to invest in a dictionary frankly. When you do, come back and re-write that sentence into something close to being factually correct on the issue before attempting to discuss the cause.
Report InsiderTrader July 20, 2018 6:57 PM BST
It is not anti-racism. It is anti being able to choose who comes and lives and settles here with the same rights as natives.
Report moisok July 20, 2018 7:18 PM BST
the plaice has bean flooded

a massive demographic explosion which will not end well
Report tony57 July 20, 2018 9:58 PM BST
sweden is a shock to me..i know the far right had made gains..but to lead in a poll close to a election...
Report tony57 July 20, 2018 10:03 PM BST
tps://hillreporter.com/putin-says-trump-gave-up-crimea-and-other-parts-of-uk...
Report moisok July 20, 2018 10:11 PM BST
The naughty children must be punished - we should not be leaving home!!!

We have fought German and French politcos and leaders throughout history.

History simply repeating itself.

They have never liked us.
Report InsiderTrader July 20, 2018 10:26 PM BST
For the first time in living memory both major parties are odds against winning the most seats next UK election

Mid-prices

Tories 2.09
Labour 2.03

This gives 3% a different party could win the most seats. Very unlikely off course but it goes to show how wrong they have both got Brexit and immigration in general. The fact that you have people like PP convinced any talk of a sensible immigration policy (or giving British citizens more rights in their own country than foreign citizens) is racist is the problem. The debate has been shut down by the racist screamers.
Report moisok July 20, 2018 10:29 PM BST
porky is like many of them
self interest is his motive

and sold out to the diktats of brussels
Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.

Wonder

Instance ID: 13539
www.betfair.com

New to Betfair?

You need to open an account before you can add content to the forum.

Opening an account only takes a few minutes.

register now