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flag of goats
08 Jul 18 00:04
Joined:
Date Joined: 16 Jul 04
| Topic/replies: 7,812 | Blogger: flag of goats's blog
seems the Tories have capitulated and sold out so even staunch Conservatives will be looking elsewhere but the same sentiment applies to diehard Labour voters with Corbyn and sidekick Diane Abbott.
All this while the pointless white middle class Liberals aren’t taken seriously at all.

All 3 major parties are unelectable it seems.
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Report tanglefoot July 8, 2018 12:10 AM BST
All I know is the Tories are finished,maybe for 20 yrs
Report politicspunter July 8, 2018 9:46 AM BST
If there was an election tomorrow the tories could be badly damaged by 2015 UKIP voters who switched to the tories in 2017, 12.6% of the electorate. Why would the Labour vote change because of Corbyn/ Abbott? They were there at the last election when they got 40%.
Report anxious July 8, 2018 10:00 AM BST
Jeremy Cool
Report melv July 8, 2018 10:02 AM BST
Labour.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 8, 2018 10:03 AM BST
would wait to see what they say? Will probably be a protest vote though.
Report politicspunter July 8, 2018 10:12 AM BST
The protest vote is most likely to manifest itself in voters switching from Conservative to LibDem and UKIPers who lent their support to tory switching to anyone else.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 8, 2018 10:16 AM BST
To be honest, right now my protest vote is for the tories. Just praying there's something better before the next election or that Labour begin representing something I can get behind again.
Report InsiderTrader July 8, 2018 11:06 AM BST
May has turned into Blair (sly and centralist) and Corbyn is too communist for most people. UKIP died the day Nigel walked.
Report politicspunter July 8, 2018 11:13 AM BST
Corbyn is too left wing for 60% of the electorate but his 40% support could easily see him in number ten if repeated.
Report InsiderTrader July 8, 2018 11:15 AM BST
I agree he could slip through the net due to low turnout of Tory and Ukip voters.
Report Dr Crippen July 8, 2018 11:20 AM BST
Considering the alternative would see people voting Conservative as usual despite harbouring any grievances with the Tories.
Report politicspunter July 8, 2018 11:28 AM BST
That certainly was the case at the 2017 election but May has been exposed now. She can't rely on those voters again who are now likely to switch/abstain. If she had a massive majority the damage could be limited but she is already hanging on by the skin of her teeth thanks to the DUP.
Report InsiderTrader July 8, 2018 11:30 AM BST
Would be interesting without the DUP. No one could form a coalition.
Report politicspunter July 8, 2018 11:51 AM BST
I could see Labour getting in with a majority quite easily.
Report jed.davison July 8, 2018 1:11 PM BST
If May signs the deal which she has mooted the last couple of days the Tory Party is 100% dead.
Report InsiderTrader July 8, 2018 1:27 PM BST
The EU will not agree to what she scribbled down on Friday.
Report jed.davison July 8, 2018 1:35 PM BST
Robert Peston has just tweeted that letters calling for a motion of no confidence in the PM are landing with the 1922 Committee even as we speak.
Report politicspunter July 8, 2018 1:57 PM BST
Put yourself in the shoes of a tory mp in a marginal constituency. I can't see any way Theresa can lead the tories into the next disastrous election, she has to step down sometime. If a no confidence vote comes about, are you going to support her, knowing she is likely to step down anyway in the foreseeable future?  Best get shot of her now and bring in someone who can take them forward.
Report Dr Crippen July 8, 2018 2:13 PM BST
I'll quote Tony Blair speaking about a previous general election.

"in which a traditional left-wing party competes with a traditional right-wing party, with the traditional result".

Corbyn will never lead Labour to a straight GE victory.
Report politicspunter July 8, 2018 2:21 PM BST
If it wasn't for UKIP voters lending their support to the tories and the DUP propping them up in parliament, Corbyn would have won the last election.
Report TheBetterBettor July 8, 2018 2:33 PM BST
Tory Brexiteers (50-60 mps) would not be brave enuff to walk to UKIP under a Farage stewardship.....Thats what has to happen to change the Brexit dynamic
Report TheBetterBettor July 8, 2018 3:45 PM BST
^^^^^^ that's if the general election was in a weeks time.
Report tony57 July 8, 2018 4:53 PM BST
i will vote labour....in the hope corbyn keeps the betrayal to a minimum, it can not be any worse than the tory one can it? lets be honest? at least if labour win , the nhs and welfare state are safe for 5 yrs...and corbyn just may keep us out of the single market...but its a sad for our country..the political class have destroyed all the trust the people have had in them..and mark my words..the next election will see the lowest turnout ever..funny enough..that will help the torys....
Report anxious July 8, 2018 5:04 PM BST
Tony the main issue is to get rid of the Tories Jeremy will make sure Brexit happens in some form or other , it would be Political suicide to do anything else, like you say the NHS , social care etc will be saved from extinction if is left to the Spivs
Report sageform July 8, 2018 6:04 PM BST
If you think that Corbyn is going to win (which seems increasingly likely) and you have more than 50k in savings, move it out of the country and emigrate. Everyone will be reliant on the state and the state is broke. At least Venezuela still has oil. Corbyn labour will not be the same as any Labour Government we have seen before. It will be controlled by the Trade Unions and outside of the EU they will be free to confiscate capital on a Stalinist scale.
Report tony57 July 8, 2018 6:29 PM BST
sageform
you must have some wild imagination...labour will do no such thing?if you have savings they are safe..labour WILL BORROW (tories have done the same) to make a peoples bank to lend to small buisness etc..a nationalised bank..other than that..labour will increase taxes on petrol (tories are doing that now)and give rebate to elec cars etc..green energy will be put at the front, taxes may go up 1-2p or national insurance...buisness tax will increase (small) if you are a millionaire you will pay 5% more in tax than you do now...with this the def and debt will come down ..but at a slower rate..this is the worst so called rightwingers have to face from a first 5yrs...the increase in taxes will go to the NHS and social care..i know this is the blue print if they get power...check who my mp is..
Report sageform July 8, 2018 7:11 PM BST
I really hope that you are right. I lived through the Wilson Government and it destroyed small business. Blair and Brown were further to the right on business than the present Tories but I can't see labour repeating that again.
Report Esox July 8, 2018 7:15 PM BST
Labour will get my vote. I don't want to see another Tory government ever.
Report lfc1971 July 8, 2018 7:46 PM BST
I will not be voting again thankyou
Report Dr Crippen July 8, 2018 8:04 PM BST
I don't want to see another Tory government ever.

You've not got one now.
Report flag of goats July 8, 2018 8:11 PM BST
Personally I would like to see a box on the voting form which says “none of the above” which might actually increase turnout but wouldn’t solve a great deal as to who holds power.

I’d like to say that would shake up all parties but even the EU referendum result seems to have made no impression on the political elite.
It’s easy to believe the Lib Dems might gain favour but in some ways these are the worst of them all and people have zero interest in ageing white men talking about diversity.

Obviously no ballot paper would ever be allowed to put forward a “non vote” as it would embarrass them all.

I can think of many great politicians on all sides of the divide but the current crop are devoid of any true empathy with voters.
Seems politics is dead.
Report SontaranStratagem July 8, 2018 9:41 PM BST
If I voted it would be for myself, an independent individual truly independent

Corbyn is the only one you can vote for now, you cant trust those Tories, and UKIP are being taken over by Alex Jones's mob (Paul Joseph Watson and various others are now members)
Report InsiderTrader July 8, 2018 9:49 PM BST
It is true to say there are no proper pro-British, pro-Commonwealth parties in the UK. Until there is proper PR it will be extremely hard to put any pressure on the Westminster elites who are kept in place by their corporate/union allies.
Report tony57 July 9, 2018 10:53 AM BST
the tories have had their chance...they have betrayed the vote..destroyed the fabric of the country foodbanks, welfare state,they have lied to us ..brexit means brexit?LOL..its time for another goverment, we need a election....this deal is awful..
Report Dotchinite July 9, 2018 1:41 PM BST
I think we are approaching a total realignment of UK politics.

Brexit looks like it will finish the Tories and a Corbyn led Government will certainly kill the Labour party.
Report sageform July 9, 2018 4:55 PM BST
I have wished there was a "none of the above" button for most of my voting life. I would feel the same faced with the choices in almost every other democracy worldwide. Since we had instant media no sane and honest person would run for public office.
Report BonnieDday July 9, 2018 9:53 PM BST
Tories, but with Rees-Mogg at the helm.

Regardless of what happened last time, Corbyn/Abbott … REALLY? I think not.
Report FatherMaguire July 9, 2018 11:39 PM BST
Corbyn all day long - he has some faults but he genuinely cares about the people of this country - will be a radical change from this shower
Report posy July 10, 2018 2:09 PM BST
Corbyn might well have an idealistic vision for the common man however if he gets elected his marxist controllers will wield the power and the country will be driven over the cliff. Everyone other than those in control will suffer as the economy/exchange rate collapse.
Report Tallywagger. July 10, 2018 2:21 PM BST
Never voted in a GE.

Indeed, voting would probably only be worthwhile if all the tribal voters were banned from voting.
Report tony57 July 10, 2018 4:37 PM BST
posy..all this anti corbyn stuff just wont wash anymore..people see thorugh it, we have had tories put us in debt and only made the poorest pay for it...nhs ,welfare state..not to mention defence??the army has been destroyed by the tories...lowest since 1700...im not a fan of corbyn on defence but at least labour will put the money in..
Report InsiderTrader July 10, 2018 8:18 PM BST
Some economists see Brexit as a threat to the British economy.

No economists think a Corbyn victory would be a good thing for the British economy.

May continuously uses this threat to keep Tory patriots in line.
Report enpassant July 10, 2018 9:44 PM BST
'patriots' hahaha
Report tony57 July 11, 2018 8:04 AM BST
again IT NONSENSE...depending on the economist many have different views on a labour goverment,and please try to understand under labour rules a leader is not ALL powerful like the tories..we have parts of the leadership that will hold corbyn back..and other parts that will back him...you read too much propaganda...
Report enpassant July 11, 2018 2:35 PM BST
John Cleese on Newsnight last night, referred to a study of 'pundits' predicting what will happen in the future. It turned out they were no better at doing so than the 'lay' people seeking their view.
It is intended we leap into the unknown where all the rhetoric and assertion will mean nothing.
Report Mighty Whites 2008 July 11, 2018 11:20 PM BST
politicspunter    08 Jul 18 09:46 
If there was an election tomorrow the tories could be badly damaged by 2015 UKIP voters who switched to the tories in 2017, 12.6% of the electorate. Why would the Labour vote change because of Corbyn/ Abbott? They were there at the last election when they got 40%


A lot of people voted labour last time to stop May getting a large majority there was talk of 100 seat majority. They cast their ballot never expecting labour to win. It will be different next time as people will know voting for Corbyn could see him in downing street the following day and that will focus the mind.

Prior to last friday the tories remarkably had a 5 - 6 point lead in the polls so there is no great clamour for corbyn he really should be streets ahead if he expects to win.

The big question will be how does the public react to Mays proposals and that at the moment is unknown. If there was an election soon then that would be because May had fallen and who succeeded her and their policies would play a big factor.

Teresa is very lucky corbyn leads labour at the moment if labour had a more credible leader they would be nailed on to win but having corbyn as the leader also terrifies many tories and is the main reason she clings to power.
Report politicspunter July 11, 2018 11:26 PM BST
Check tonights yougov poll.
Report InsiderTrader July 12, 2018 8:59 AM BST
Are there any examples from around the world where a far left government has been good for a country?
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 12, 2018 9:06 AM BST
Define far left
Report InsiderTrader July 12, 2018 9:19 AM BST
A government led by Marxists.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 12, 2018 9:42 AM BST
And what are Marxist policies?

How would you distinguish them from traditional left wing policies?
Report InsiderTrader July 12, 2018 10:32 AM BST
Marxism tries to stop people making money out of labour. The move towards this policies would generally be anti-business, anti-freemarket. Basically anti-the built in inequality of capitalism. Public ownership of natural resources over private ownership. It wants cooperation rather than competition. Equal sharing of produce production.

Recently traditional left wing policies like those under Blair do not believe in nationalisation and public ownership. They believe in the free market. Do not agree with sharing produce of production.

The key thing is recently the left wing parties have believed in the free market and competition rather than hoping state control and everyone working for the common good will work things out.

So my question is where has a government that pushes state ownership and control/cooperation over competition worked?
Report TheBetterBettor July 13, 2018 8:01 AM BST
What!!!....no UKIP voters



Stuck with Kang & Kodos politics forever.
Report sageform July 16, 2018 8:05 AM BST
UKIP greatest supporter apparently is Donald trump. He can't vote for them though. Trump is apparently hoping that Putin will help him to reduce the power of the EU and he held a meeting with Nigel Farage while here. It seems that Trump still sees Nigel as a significant force in UK politics.
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