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enpassant
05 Jul 18 00:01
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Date Joined: 03 Jun 15
| Topic/replies: 4,789 | Blogger: enpassant's blog
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44719656

Jaguar Land Rover boss: Brexit threatens £80bn UK investment
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Report FatherMaguire July 5, 2018 8:25 AM BST
Thousands of job losses are irrelevant - we've got our country back
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 9:07 AM BST
40,000 employees - presumably they don't all lose their jobs even if operations are scaled back?

typical scaremongering story etc etc

and we took back control, so that's something (as well as the bananas - why don't they ever balance their stories with the good news about the bananas?)
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 5, 2018 9:23 AM BST
I'd normally joke or say something sarcastic but I just feel a sense of unfolding horror at it all this morning.


6,000 people are employed at Halewood up here. There's not a family in the region who doesn't know someone who works there. It's just a part of the fabric of the city now. And that's just there itself. How many more jobs and businesses in the surrounding area will be lost too. The whole of Halewood and Speke well be devastated.

“If I’m forced to go out because we don’t have the right deal, then we have to close plants here in the UK and it will be very, very sad.”

Just read that.

Is anyone still trying to call this Project Fear.


It's happening. We told you it would happen and you dismissed it. And here it is. When the reckoning comes we will know who the traitors were. You may have thought you were being loyal to the flag, to a romanticised notion of a country that didn't exist but you stabbed your countrymen in the back. C*nts.
Report tony57 July 5, 2018 9:32 AM BST
we lost 40-50 jobs in retail last month..not a word from any of you? we are still inside the eu? abiding by its laws?
the car industry has been pro eu from the start ..and i understand why ..it works for them in the supply chain, i dont blame them for worrying..but i dont belive it will be the problem they say...and the eu would lose out if it makes this harder than it needs to be....ive said before..WE WILL LOSE JOBS...BUT WE WILL GAIN JOBS ALSO...

FEAR we carnt compete on our own

FEAR we will lose our economy

FEAR we will not be the country we are today

FEAR FEAR FEAR.....its all the remain side have because we who won the vote and will fight for the 17.4m have the hope and the belief and the facts on our side...
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 9:47 AM BST
Not quite.

He said: “If I’m forced to go out because we don’t have the right deal, then we have to close plants here in the UK and it will be very, very sad.
Then added.
"This is hypothetical, and I hope it’s an option we never have to go for.”

The words you need to understand are ''This is hypothetical''

Leaving the EU will pave the way for companies like these to obtain even greater trade with the rest of the world.
They fear a poor deal would keep them from doing this.

Yet this is no more than Project Fear right up to the line, with the usual suspects trying to undermine the efforts of the government to get a good deal.

The exaggerated worse case scenarios are spread in the hope we're offered a bad deal which would somehow scupper Brexit.

We're being stabbed in the back by our own countrymen who prefer to be ruled and be part of the German Empire.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 5, 2018 9:49 AM BST
Tony, christ on a bike.

Jobs come and go, that is a fact. Often due to competing governments offering more competitive terms, often due to mismanagement or competition from elsewhere. This happens. You can't micro-manage every part of the economy.


This though is different. There is a definite cause and effect. Brexit. Removing ourselves from freedom of movement will cause serious job losses, will devastate thousands of (predominantly) working class families.

It's really that simple. Comparing it against other industries is irrelevant unless you're saying those losses are BECAUSE we are in the EU, not in spite of it.



Then there's the "I don't believe it will be the problem they say". What is it with you and your monumental arrogance lately. Multi-national firms who've done it for years, who work with partners across the globe, who know in intimate detail how JIT works.

But you know better apparently. Has your account been hacked by lfc?


The EU will be the main beneficiary as well. Good god man. These firms need to re-locate to a market that doesn't impose tariffs or costly delays on moving parts. Where do you think that will be exactly? Right now, European governments are licking their lips and seeing just how many businesses and jobs they can pinch of us. We have just given it away to them. Treason, pure and simple.




As for the end, fear is of something that could happen. It's happening. You may not care about fellow scousers losing their jobs but I do. So don't give me your working class hero w@nk any more you utter hypocrite.
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 9:51 AM BST
Good post tony.
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 10:02 AM BST
remainers shut down debate by shouting "racist"

brexiteers shut down debate by shouting "project fear"

both are true or neither are true, but you're doing EXACTLY what you accuse remainers of doing on racism.

This is not an attempt to scare people (THE VOTE WAS TWO YEARS AGO - WHY WOULD JLR BE INTERESTED IN SCARING ANYONE?)

This is an obvious attempt to influence the negotiations - why? - because it matters to to these industries.

They are not making it up.
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 10:09 AM BST
More nonsense from Big Business from the BBC. Notice all the good news of the hundreds of thousands of jobs created since the freedom vote have gone unnoticed.

Surprised to see the Corbyn supports on here sticking up for big business.

Today is the big vote in the EU on making everyone pay for to post links and every piece of content uploaded to the internet being censored by artificial intelligence. This will cement big business and state control of the internet in Europe and freeze out small players.

Do the pro-EU, pro-big business Labour supporters care? No they seem to love being controlled by the EU.
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 10:10 AM BST
Here's the worst case scenario and more likely than anything in Project Fear.

The EU will slowly collapse taking the UK  down with it. Even the failure of the Euro would be devastating to us.

The sooner we get of out the debt ridden mess and expand our trade with the rest of the world the better.
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 10:14 AM BST
Notice all the good news of the hundreds of thousands of jobs created since the freedom vote have gone unnoticed.

Some commentator on Radio 4 mentioned that this morning as the presenter was trying to paint as black a picture about Brexit as he could.

He went on to explain that there was no compulsion for anybody to impose tariffs if we left without a deal anyway.
Report FatherMaguire July 5, 2018 10:27 AM BST
the hundreds of thousands of jobs that have been created are debt counsellors and bailiffs
Report lfc1971 July 5, 2018 10:33 AM BST
Jaguar are an independent company ?
Whatever , any company in Britain that can’t survive and do well post Brexit is not fit for purpose in Britain
They will have to close or move country , do what they think is best
Report lfc1971 July 5, 2018 10:36 AM BST
Will they be job losses ? That’s ok , stop immigration
Report lfc1971 July 5, 2018 10:41 AM BST
Do you know it’s not so bad when a factory closes down and you can walk into a new job
Think about that before you start crying about job losses
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 10:47 AM BST
The same idiots that complain about job loses also say we need 300,000 to 500,000 net immigration a year because there are too many job vacancies and we need immigrant labour.

Strange logic.
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 11:00 AM BST
are you chaps suggesting the loss of JLR wont really matter economically and the "answer" is something to do with immigration?
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 11:06 AM BST
so (for example) a Design Engineer, British, 2 kids, lives Coventry and works at the Coventry JLR plant.  10 years experience designing cars and loses his 120k job if he wont move to Lyon (or Dresden or wherever). 

He is an idiot for complaining about the potential for losing his job because a bunch of EU migrant workers pick stock in an East midlands distribution centre?

cant see why he's an idiot if I'm honest.
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 11:08 AM BST
but I do spot a few idiots on here this morning. 

If JLR do not invest in the Uk as they have upto now it's bad news whatever your politics.  It's not complicated.
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 11:09 AM BST
Jobs will be created here in new businesses if the EU decides it wants tariffs and controls that will stop things going to and from the EU.

Its all part of the campaign by big business to get what they want so they can make more money. They talk from THEIR pockets. If they get a chance to make more money or pay less tax they will take it. There is zero country loyalty by these multinationals. Looks how the online bookies campaigned to get taxes cut in the UK so they would come back to the UK to make it the gambling capital of the world. They were cut and FOBTs were made possible. They all then went back offshore anyway to save tax. They are ruthless.
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 11:12 AM BST
so your Brexit agenda is also anti-capitalist/anti-Business?
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 11:16 AM BST
what's your alternative system?

you start by dreaming up "new businesses" as the replacement mechanism for lost jobs in other businesses.  How do you propose this happens if business is not motivated by the desire to make money?

A strange response.  We will cripple business that wants to make money and assume (by magic) they'll be replaced by other businesses.  Why would this happen?  What will these businesses make? 

you guys are clutching at straws as reality approaches.
Report lfc1971 July 5, 2018 11:16 AM BST
It’s anout getting the balance right, the balance is not right as part of the EUand we are addressing that by voting to leave
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 11:17 AM BST
I am not particularly fond of business business. The multinationals that go for the cheapest labour and hoard cash offshore. The ones that lobby the EU for the type of internet controls that could go through today meaning we can nolonger share links on social media or upload commentary videos.
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 11:22 AM BST
you are conflating EU with business.

the UK needs businesses whether it's in or out of the EU and certain businesses need to be able to make and sell their goods inside the massive EU market; pretending that's not so because of your fervour for Brexit doesn't change the reality and people telling you otherwise are not (always) doing so because of an agenda.  They might just be right.

With respect, you're a betfair forumite and the CEO of JLR has more credibility than you on this topic.

40,000 threatened jobs is just simple bad news.  You must know this.
Report lfc1971 July 5, 2018 11:24 AM BST
Yes it’s bad news , if it happens
There are all sorts of reasons for job losses , that’s life
Report lfc1971 July 5, 2018 11:31 AM BST
This is how it works , they will have to adapt post Brexit
If they cannot it leaves an opportunity for 3 or 4 new companies
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 11:33 AM BST
With respect, you're a betfair forumite and the CEO of JLR has more credibility than you on this topic.

Bigpoppapumpapig getting stroppy again.
Report lfc1971 July 5, 2018 11:34 AM BST
Business in a capatilist world must be allowed to go bust , they must not become so big that they cannot do so without harming the country
That is an economy that is doomed to failure , it is not going to be able to change with the times
It’s less creative and much more dangerous there has to be the ability for these companies to fail
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 11:35 AM BST
why?

it's true - the old geezers on here punting their answers around as if they were meaningful need the odd reminder that they are not experts on every subject.  (apart from lfc1971 of course).
Report lfc1971 July 5, 2018 11:38 AM BST
If you try and stop larger companies from failing then it makes the countries economy susceptible to great danger
Capatilism is about failure as much as success
Report lfc1971 July 5, 2018 11:38 AM BST
It must be
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 11:45 AM BST
Will they be job losses ? That’s ok , stop immigration

It does seem odd that on the one hand people are saying the UK needs hundreds of thousands of new immigrants each year to prevent our island from slipping into the sea.

Then on the other hand they talk about a few thousand job losses causing the same disaster.

If both were true shouldn't one help to balance out t'other?
Report lfc1971 July 5, 2018 12:17 PM BST
I don’t know many people seem ideologically opposed to questioning immigration

In the same way I am ideologically opposed to immigration , certainly in the way it has been imposed upon Britain over many years
So maybe I’m not the right person to answer
Report lfc1971 July 5, 2018 12:18 PM BST
Someone might be able to , let’s see
Report mrtopnotch July 5, 2018 12:21 PM BST
Immigration from the EU of EU nationals (Poland etc.) was/is never an issue for me, vast majority of people contribute and pay their taxes.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 5, 2018 12:47 PM BST
Catching up.

Wondering something. Can those who act like they care about normal people answer something for me. Similarly those who still (!) call it Project Fear and propaganda.

For this to be true then there's the other side. The side of Gove and Farage saying things will be better.

So can someone provide links to businesses coming here and jobs being created because of brexit. Not in spite of. Not "we still have confidence in the UK no matter the outcome of negotiations ".

Actually, people saying that us leaving the EU is going to present new opportunities and we are creating all these jobs that wouldn't have existed if you were still part of the EU.

Just looking to see if we can balance it out. We're seeing job losses direvtly attributed to brexit so what about gains?

You boys usually have loads of links so hopefully I'll have plenty to read when I next log in.
Report moisok July 5, 2018 12:57 PM BST
when you want to win you have to put lots of pressure from all sorts of angles and keep it in your opponents half

also it helps to have a lot of foreign pundits to predict your doom in the second half to trample all over the other team



see what I did there
Report moisok July 5, 2018 12:57 PM BST
ps the number of minimum wage jobs has doubled in recent years
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 1:02 PM BST
the thread nicely reflects the campaign - for some immigration is the cause of everything and no matter what is said by people who run business (which, whether we like it or not are important economically because capitalism is what we have chosen) the argument is shifted away from that which is being warned.

As previously pointed out on the Airbus thread - reality has a specific future date when these warnings will come home to roost (if there's no compromise reached on continued EU market access).  And at that point shouting immigration a lot will not help.
Report enpassant July 5, 2018 1:14 PM BST
tony -
FEAR FEAR FEAR.....its all the remain side have because we who won the vote and will fight for the 17.4m have the hope and the belief and the facts on our side...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'hope and belief that the facts..' - if that is what you are working from let's hope the muppets running this farce have more facts than hopes and more certainties than beliefs. It is an absolute shambles.

'we won the vote and will fight..' ffs
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 1:15 PM BST
I know - these are adults and people who vote.  Scary stuff.
Report enpassant July 5, 2018 1:19 PM BST
IT : 'Surprised to see the Corbyn supports on here sticking up for big business.'

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why ? We need big business and Corbyn will get the taxes from them all that their Tory pals don't bother with unless they are forced to and even then they let the business decide how much they want to pay !
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 1:32 PM BST
for some immigration is the cause of everything

I can't see any long term plus for any mature economy in taking in loads of other people simply to dilute wages and create a housing crisis where there wasn't one. Along with the strain put on all other public services like the NHS and education.
And that's without taking into consideration the kinds of people who have been coming here who will never integrate, or comply with our laws.

Immigration on the scale that the UK has been subjected to has spoiled what was one of the best countries in the world. The country we were once proud to be a part of is no longer.
The intention of politicians of all our main parties was to bring the working class down to the lowest level possible without causing riots. And they've succeeded.
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 1:36 PM BST
Labour are as much to blame as the Tories in that respect. More in fact because they made undermining the position of working people respectable.

They did it so efficiently that the plebs didn't realise what had happened until it was too late.

Most of them still don't realise who was mainly responsible for the plight they find themselves in and still blame the Tories for everything.
More fool them.
Plenty on show here by the way.
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 1:43 PM BST
There is a very real fear that the internet as we know will end in the EU today.

Even the most open border MEPs oppose this corporate grab of the internet.

Do the like of Pineapple ever comment on Article 13 and Article 11.

No. They probably do not even know what it is.

This is what the EU does. Sneaks up fascist controls on the population that favours big business.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 5, 2018 2:13 PM BST
You've got your own thread about that.

This one's about the impact of brexit on businesses and jobs.

Any examples of firms coming because of brexit?
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 2:21 PM BST
You do not know anything about it do you PP? Totally clueless about what your beloved EU is up to.
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 2:22 PM BST
If they it this through it will have a massive impact on small businesses and jobs.
Report enpassant July 5, 2018 2:22 PM BST
Listening to the fisheries news push by Gove yesterday : It was informative hearing about the distribution of water rights within the EU and Gove troutting (sorry)out about all the good things that will come out of brexit for our fish industry - then the fact that 90% of our fish goes to.............well you know the answer I suspect !
Report enpassant July 5, 2018 2:26 PM BST

Jul 5, 2018 -- 8:21AM, InsiderTrader wrote:


You do not know anything about it do you PP? Totally clueless about what your beloved EU is up to.


Not to get a bit 'he said, she said' about this but he asked you a question first and whether he knows about these articles or not he could if he wanted or needed to.
You however IT have not yet answered his question....." Any examples of firms coming because of brexit? "

Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 2:26 PM BST
Surely censoring the internet trumps the effects of that leaving the EU will have on trade one way or another?

To simply dismiss it as not relevant to this thread is plain silly.
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 2:40 PM BST
Foreign investment into the UK is doing very well.

The reality is if there is no trade deal and tariffs appear businesses will come here to be able to sell into the second richest market in Europe. They will not simply wish to drop out of the UK. Jobs are up since Brexit. Foreign investment in the UK is up. The same old businesses are not happy. These are the same ones that said they would likely leave due to us not joining the Euro. If some producers go others will fill the gap. Businesses are hardly going to tell us what the competitive advantages will be considering as we do not know yet if we will have a trade deal or what the tariffs will be.

Electronic censorship of the internet and charging for link clicks is a massive power grab to consolidate who control information and who can do business on the internet efficiently. Yet people like PP have never heard of Articles 11 and 13. Or if they have they are simply not bothered about it. They just blindly back the EU.
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 2:43 PM BST
Case in point PP himself copied an article onto here the other day. He did not even reference it. Clearly BF will no longer be able to allow to stand. We will also not be able to link to newspaper and talk about the article. So the very forum these pro-EU people chat on will be very much reduced or even stopped because it will be too much hustle for BF to monitor.
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 2:49 PM BST
Foreign investment into the UK is doing very well.

Please show your justification for this statement.

I don't know why everybody is hating on JLR when they're only warning what they may have to do.  Jacob Rees-Mogg has already moved his hedge fund to the EU!  Why isn't he getting stick for being part of Project Fear?
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 2:57 PM BST
Jacob Rees-Mogg has already moved his hedge fund to the EU

Firstly it is his hedge fund. It is fund he used to help run. Secondly a fund has been registered in Dublin they many others (some of which were well before Brexit). It has to be done for foreign investors. The reality is most hedge funds are registered in the Caymans etc. It does not mean they are not run out of London and New York. If you really want to go after hedge funds and their tax I would agree with you. But I have no idea how you do it.
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 2:58 PM BST
The fact that the fund he helped run was ever registered in the UK is a surprise as very few are.
Report enpassant July 5, 2018 2:58 PM BST
IT : again you are not really answering the question. OK you can point to some signs that you say are positive and linked in some way to brexit - but can you list or otherwise evidence businesses taking a wholly contrasting view to the ones that have come out against a poor deal (or however anyone want to describe it)ie saying they will invest here once we are out of the EU ?
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 3:09 PM BST
JRM's company has many funds. They invest all over the place.

Because they've started a new one in Ireland is small beer in the general scheme of their investments.
What are they betting on by the way?

Bottom line from the Mirror:

''But unless one understands the nuance before launching the attack and gets it right, the target can just shrug it off as fake news.''

Which sums up Corbyn and his shabby followers.
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 4:41 PM BST
Jacob Rees Mogg has moved his hedge fund to Ireland as a simple, entirely understandable, business decision.  Risk management in view of the UK's uncertain future status.

Please can we stop the double standards attacking Manufacturing business like JLR and Airbus.  Unfortunately for them they do not have the mobility of Financial Services and Hedge funds and IT or other businesses whose output is less tangible.  They build big things with multiple component parts which are sourced from all over the EU.  Thus, trite solutions, like "source your components globally" while looking compelling on the page may not actually be logistically possible or cost effective.  Brexit - or a no deal Brexit - will put them in peril if they have no single market.

They just want to make money - like Jacob and his hedge fund.  Stop with the hypocrisy. Jacob has moved to the EU because he thinks the UK is about to go tits up, but then, he's worth hundreds of millions so he has less skin in the game than the car worker in Coventry whose livelihood is at risk from Jacob's politics.  Tw4t.
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 4:58 PM BST
Fake news in abundance.

JRM's company hasn't even moved to the EU.
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 5:00 PM BST
On the new fund, The Daily Mirror nails it.

''But unless one understands the nuance before launching the attack and gets it right, the target can just shrug it off as fake news.''
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 5:02 PM BST
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/13/tory-mp-jacob-rees-mogg-defends-setting-hedge-fund-branch-ireland/

warned his own clients about Hard Brexit risks and set up in Ireland.
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 5:03 PM BST
maybe you'd like to attack the Telegraph for their socialist stance on Brexit?

Confused
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 5:09 PM BST
from their own prospectus:

"During, and possibly after, this period there is likely to be considerable uncertainty as to the position of the UK and the arrangements which will apply to its relationships with the EU.

"As (the company is) based in the UK and a fund's investments may be located in the UK or the EU, a fund may as a result be affected by the events described above."

PMSL.  Couldn't make it up.
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 5:09 PM BST
Well what do you expect?

They're setting up a fresh fund and need investors to pile in with new money.

They would talk about the perils of a hard Brexit if it helps them to attract investments.

Looking for the motives behind the statements is always a good place to look for reasons.
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 5:10 PM BST
his wife inherited £100m+ and they keep it offshore.  As a patriotic way to defend British money (or something).

Utter tw4t.
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 5:11 PM BST
the forum's last Trump fan weighing in on JRM.
Report bigpoppapump July 5, 2018 5:15 PM BST
perhaps we could have a list of people allowed to be concerned about Brexit (Rees-Mogg and his investors) and those whose concerns can be dismissed as Project Fear.

Would certainly help.

So - Project FEAR:

Airbus
Jaguar LandRover

Legitimately making money from the uncertainty:

Rees-Mogg


Please help me with any further names for the two lists?
Report enpassant July 5, 2018 5:19 PM BST
It's all good with Moggy as a devout Catholic ; his views as he says, stem from his beliefs - he knows about the rich man entering kingdom of heaven, so as he is obviously a very honest man I'm sure, I'm also sure he wouldn't pick and choose which parts of the doctrine he says he follows without question, he is likely to give it all away any day now.
Report Dr Crippen July 5, 2018 5:22 PM BST
I doubt if they needed permission from JRM before they launched their new fund, he only owns 15% of the company.
Does he have any influence on where investments are allocated?
Report InsiderTrader July 5, 2018 7:10 PM BST
The same folkes that do not understand anything about how the EU works and what they are up to support big business when it suits them but go against personal wealth when it doesnt.
Report moisok July 5, 2018 9:49 PM BST
they are doing a fine job of smashing up the vote against the eu

the vote they never expected or planned for

lots of foreigners trashing the country sponsored by soros
and lots of foreign dosh

what else would you expect

the french have never liked the 'rosbifs'
Report enpassant July 5, 2018 10:37 PM BST

Jul 5, 2018 -- 1:10PM, InsiderTrader wrote:


The same folkes that do not understand anything about how the EU works and what they are up to support big business when it suits them but go against personal wealth when it doesnt.


Utter nonsense IT.

Report PorcupineorPineapple July 6, 2018 8:34 AM BST
IT can only feel comfortable if people are in neat boxes.

Point out that Brexit isn't a great idea then suddenly you MUST support every little thing the EU does. If businesses also say Brexit is a bad idea then you MUST also be in favour of big business and against the working class.

Sad really, as he can occasionally debate something but just gets locked into this pseudo name calling if he can't answer a direct question.
Report lfc1971 July 6, 2018 8:54 AM BST
Cracks appearing in the EU already , Austrian chancellor saying must not be a no deal Brexit and preparing to ditch the Irish as too much trouble
Report lfc1971 July 6, 2018 8:57 AM BST
But remember first any deal must be a very good one for Britain , otherwise No Deal !
Report InsiderTrader July 6, 2018 9:24 AM BST
PP accuses me of never answering a direct question when he refusing is to give his view on Article 11 and Article 13. I answer question after question yet he refuses to take a view. Strange.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 6, 2018 9:31 AM BST
Go on then, can you tell me what these articles are. I take it it's something to do with the proposed law which - among other things - will stop the likes of Spotify and Youtube making billions while the artists themselves are making peanuts in comparison.


I'll be honest, that's about as much I've heard about it.
Report InsiderTrader July 6, 2018 9:59 AM BST
Article 11 related to paying a link tax when linking to things like news sites. It would have meant on places like here we could not put up extracts from a news article with a link and talk about it without the platform (i.e. BF) paying a fee to the news site.

Article 13 made it the platform's responsibility to check for all copyrights on uploaded photos, videos and text. If things slip through the net the platform would be fined. This would have meant AI machines vetting everything being uploaded. Stuff caught in the cross fire would have been things like memes, fair usages news analysis and commentary, video game walkthroughs etc. The AI would be set to be very cautious. For instance the other day Facebook AI rejected part of the USA Independence document as hate speech.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44722728

The EU wanted to push this through as a regulation rather than a law. After a lot of lobbying from people from the left and right MEPs voted to be able to debate it rather than just rubber stamp it.
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 6, 2018 10:03 AM BST
To be honest I don't know nearly enough about it so I'll leave it to the experts and lawyers.


I do think though there is a massive problem with the likes of Youtube earning billions while musicians now can't sell as many records. They're now having to charge an absolute fortune for gigs to survive and many bands are having to simply give up and get jobs as it's not viable.

So I'd be in favour of that balance being redressed. As for the rest I don't think I've had the training to give a qualified opinion to be honest.
Report InsiderTrader July 6, 2018 10:17 AM BST
At least you are honest. The idea a small EU JURI should decide this for the whole of Europe is the point behind this. We already have thousands of websites blocked in the EU due to the red tape from GDPR that was slipped through in the same manner. Thank goodness the community was more alert to get in touch with MPs to stop this one happening as well.
Report Dr Crippen July 6, 2018 11:03 AM BST
I have little concern over Google earning billions or music fans being charged a fortune to go to gigs.
It how the market works and what the market will stand.

Sneaking in legislation on the strength of Google's activities to restrict the whole of the internet does concern me. 
Especially when it's done by an undemocratic process such as the one the EU conducts.
We need to get out of the grip of this shabby outfit and the sooner the better.
Report enpassant July 6, 2018 11:31 AM BST
Ok IT : he has answered your question now answer his please.
Report InsiderTrader July 6, 2018 11:59 AM BST
What of the many questions he has asked and I have answered do you want more on ?
Report InsiderTrader July 6, 2018 12:01 PM BST
And your thoughts on Article 11 and Article 13 enpassant. Or are you another than does not understand what the EU is up to?
Report enpassant July 6, 2018 2:11 PM BST
He asked you to give links etc to business that are coming BECAUSE of brexit ; but you know this of course. Now stop muddying the water - answer the question or say so if you have nothing to produce.
Report InsiderTrader July 6, 2018 3:33 PM BST
Mainly small and medium size business that can react. Until we know how deals are going to develop big firms will scream. But smaller firms are looking forward to going global as the straitjckaet comes off. More and more trade is being done with our largest exporter - the USA.

http://smallbusiness.co.uk/smes-see-brexit-opportunity-trade-rises-2540071/

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/01/uk-businesses-seek-opportunities-in-china-after-brexit.html

https://realbusiness.co.uk/exports/2017/02/28/reality-brexit-part-two-post-eu-opportunities/
Report Dr Crippen July 6, 2018 4:48 PM BST
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/04/27/foreign-investors-back-brexit-britain/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/27/brexit-britain-highly-attractive-to-investors-says-foreign-publisher

That should shut p!ssant up.
Report enpassant July 6, 2018 9:14 PM BST
That is a list of possibilities and hopes of UK businesses ? The point was to list big business COMING HERE from abroad because of brexit.
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