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tony57
25 Jun 18 20:06
Joined:
Date Joined: 13 Oct 10
| Topic/replies: 11,938 | Blogger: tony57's blog
https://www.channel4.com/news/most-voters-back-tough-immigration-targets
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Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 11:34 AM BST
Its an increasing problem, along with the millions of legal migrants  it makes it more difficult to police

Leaving the EU will help greatly
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 11:55 AM BST
It will only help greatly if the political will is there to cut the numbers.

Unfortunately the Tories want high numbers of cheap labourers to help big business.

Unfortunately Labour want high numbers to create a welfare dependent state.
Report Dr Crippen June 27, 2018 11:59 AM BST
Spot on IT.
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 12:07 PM BST
The problem with "controlling" immigration is that no-one appears to have the faintest clue as to how that will happen.

Farage kept trumpeting an "Australian style points system" until it was pointed out that Australia has twice the rate of immigration that we do.

We've had full control over non EU immigration yet it is a shambles. Why does anyone think that leaving the EU will deliver the immigration policy they want?
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 12:11 PM BST
It stops freedom of movement , that’s a good start
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 12:14 PM BST
When people can simply waltz into a country , well everyone and anyone really
you find they don’t respect that country , or the people within that country
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 12:18 PM BST
I find differently.

My own business thrives on plenty of immigrant labour and the quality of them and respect they show far exceeds a large proportion of the indigenous population.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 12:20 PM BST
Do they respect you,  how do you know that ?
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 12:30 PM BST
They show general respect to the country and the people within it.
Report anxious June 27, 2018 12:38 PM BST
Yes cyclops i would defintley agree with that , and i have Poles next door and they are working and as good as gold far better than some of local idiots
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 12:40 PM BST
That’s good that’s the very least we should expect if we allow them to live and work here
I don’t want them coming to Britain if they are unable to do that , some do and some don’t
That’s the nature of freedom of movement as we can see all over the UK
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 12:44 PM BST
Can you imagine gong to another country , in your millions, a wealthy and peaceful and free and democratic country
And then to disrespect and end up more trouble than you are worth
Well it does happen , in Britain , look around I know it’s hard to believe
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 12:53 PM BST
So what distinguishes the disruptive minority of immigrants from the disruptive minority of natives?
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 12:57 PM BST
If we don’t let the “minority “ of immigrants in they won’t be disruptive

You see the very fact of having an open door policy encourages them to be disruptive , some people are like that they thing they shouldn’t be thankful to Britain and British people if we merely let everyone and anyone in
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 12:58 PM BST
Even the good immigrants will feel that , at least to some extent
that’s not a good thing either
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 1:01 PM BST
Even the nice Polish neighbour living beside anxious , even then
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 1:03 PM BST
I don’t know if there are any housing problems in Manchester, perhaps not
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 1:17 PM BST
I prefer to judge people on who they are, not where they come from.
Report anxious June 27, 2018 1:19 PM BST
There are massive housing problems in Manchester, mainly because in the poor inner city areas yuppie flats have been built and the locals have had to move out because there is not a lot of affordable housing for them , i do believe in immigration control but to be fair the problems regarding crime , drugs etc are widespread and not higher in any nationality i dont think
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 1:43 PM BST
cyclops
27 Jun 18 12:07
Joined: 11 Apr 02
| Topic/replies: 841 | Blogger: cyclops's blog
The problem with "controlling" immigration is that no-one appears to have the faintest clue as to how that will happen.

Farage kept trumpeting an "Australian style points system" until it was pointed out that Australia has twice the rate of immigration that we do.

We've had full control over non EU immigration yet it is a shambles. Why does anyone think that leaving the EU will deliver the immigration policy they want?

^

It is up to the government what type of points system they use. At least now the government can control numbers. The next step would be to get a party in power that wishes to use that power.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 1:52 PM BST
well cyclops if you prefer to judge people on who they are and not where they come from that’s ok ( I don’t necessarily agree because that is naive when you consider the difficulties faced when trying to integrate different religions and races and attitudes as to how we might want to live our lives , that can be another matter )

However if you prefer to judge people on who they are and not where they are from  then you will have no problem in stopping immigration , or at least controlling it
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 1:53 PM BST
My point being, Insider, that devising a system which actually works has always been beyond us with regard to non EU immigration.

Just because we will (possibly) have control of EU immigration doesn't mean a system which works will automatically follow.

No-one from any party has even suggested a system that makes any sense. It's a complex issue and one way beyond the pay grade of our current politicians.
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 1:56 PM BST
ifc, I wouldn't, personally, change much about the current immigration system (EU I mean - freedom of movement).
We will soon have a growing deficit of labour and that will only increase as our population ages.
And if you think there are UK nationals who are queuing up to care for our elderly, pick the fruit in our fields and hold up the hospitality and construction industries (and many more)then I would disagree.
Report tony57 June 27, 2018 2:04 PM BST
cyclops
if the pay is right british people will do the jobs...but if cheap labour comes from countrys with a standard of living far below our own who are happy with £20 a day..who live 10 to a house as to pool the bills..then people who benefit from this will see no problem....?

i have no problem with people here who are paid the going rate for a job..do you pay the going rate or do you pay min wage?

also the numbers matter..wether you like it or not we are full? buisness will have to cope with a shortage (IF THERE IS ANY) as the good news is wages are going up (little) due to some shortage of labour ...this is what i and others have said..we have FAR to many people in this country..its unsustainable...but for you ..its fine.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 2:07 PM BST
sorry cyclops if you think we can solve the problem of too many people and the stresses and strains this puts on our care services and nursing care and housing and construction and schools and whatever it is by allowing more people into the country

Who have to be housed and employed and cared for and schooled etc i am afraid I disagree
That just send like madness to me
Report tony57 June 27, 2018 2:08 PM BST
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/01/09/pervasive-skill-shortages-ac...
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 2:14 PM BST
tony,
I have a recruitment agency in London.
I checked our demographics last week at one of our customers where we had 52 people working.

The wages there are between £10.00 and £15.50 per hour (for unskilled and semi-skilled work) plus frequent overtime opportunities. The work is regular, in a modern environment. Regularly, our temps are made permanent employees.

Of the 52 there, 11 are UK nationals. We have never targeted overseas workers, indeed, we would be delighted to supply more from the UK. We have had frequent discourse with jobcentres, with almost zero success.
I can't speak for other parts of the UK but I can state with absolute certainty that in London there is a severe shortage of indigenous labour which is not caused by "cheap labour".
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 2:16 PM BST
cyclops
27 Jun 18 13:53
Joined: 11 Apr 02
| Topic/replies: 843 | Blogger: cyclops's blog
My point being, Insider, that devising a system which actually works has always been beyond us with regard to non EU immigration.

Just because we will (possibly) have control of EU immigration doesn't mean a system which works will automatically follow.

No-one from any party has even suggested a system that makes any sense. It's a complex issue and one way beyond the pay grade of our current politicians.

^

The system before 1997 worked very well indeed. From 1964 to 1997 the net rate was around zero. Can we not go back to that?

1998 under Tony Blair was the first year in our history more than 100k net arrived.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 2:22 PM BST
There is no point comparing £10 or £15 an hr for someone from outside the UK, that could be enough to for them to build or own a house for themselves back home , and start a family etc but for someone wanting to live in London and buy a house and get married it simply isn’t possible to compare the two situations

This is the underlying problem of uncontrolled mass immigration that cyclops highlights.  But doesn’t understand
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 2:26 PM BST
And it is a particular problem when it is a case of freedom of movement
Because you can have thousands of people coming to Britain and earning very much more than they can in their home countries
Within a few short years they can earn enough to establish themselves back home
That is how it works
Report tony57 June 27, 2018 2:26 PM BST
london...you may be right...in fact i bow to you ...you live and work there.

in other parts of the country as far as i know its very different..although in some citys like manchester there is some of what you say..although the greater area is more as ive found..so mixed bag..but london is the capital...and lets be honest..£15 hour is ok for the north..but not great in london?
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 2:27 PM BST
It suits them , it suits the firms , and it suits people like cyclops
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 2:32 PM BST
If you think £400 - £600 per week is not enough for unskilled labour then I don't know what you think is.
Very few businesses would survive if they had to pay their unskilled workers more than that.
Report tony57 June 27, 2018 2:33 PM BST
cyclops
i lived in london for 2yrs early 90s...and then again early 200os..for 6mths..i had along weekend with the kids and mrs last year..you know..palace, parliment, the eye,..kids loved mcdonalds on the bridge..but it took me back how much immigration had changed in 15 yrs...london was always full of every nationality and that is why i loved it...i lived in wood green...lots of turks and arabs...but i noticed how much had changed..london has changed and the city is booming...but when i was there you always knew you were in england...now..i beg to differ
Report tony57 June 27, 2018 2:35 PM BST
it seems fair..but after tax etc..its not much in london..say 400..turns to 280? ive not come accross many who earn more than 400..tbh..but i bow to you again..
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 2:41 PM BST
£400 a week in London is not enough to live when a 2 bedroom flat in the worst areas is over £300 a week. Even a studio is £230 a week. Then add food, bills, travel costs, pension contributions etc and you see you are creating a society only ever able to have kids if they have state benefits. It is a total disgrace.

If the government keeps making this possible a ruthless businessman somewhere will exploit it.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 2:41 PM BST
I didn’t say it wasn’t enough if you are a single person living in London it might be ok , I don’t know
However the point is it is very difficult to get on the property ladder , it i very difficult to start a family etc if you are young and living in London
That is not the same thing as coming to London to work at London. rates of pay much greater than your own country
Under those circumstances it is a surprise at the difference in people , if it exists at all
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 2:42 PM BST
It's certainly multi-cultural but we all have our own opinions on whether that's good or bad. I've worked and lived in London for a very long time and enjoy the differences.
My permanent workforce hails from the UK, Australia, Jamaica, Poland, Lithuania and South Africa.
It's never occurred to me that we'd be in a better place in this country if we didn't have access to people from many different nationalities.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 2:42 PM BST
Yes IT , that sounds more like the truth if the matter
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 27, 2018 2:42 PM BST
I was having a frustrating chat with my truck driving mate yesterday.  Constantly moans about poor pay and foreign drivers taking "foreigners" while here which strictly speaking is illegal.

We've covered this before though. It is illegal. The law is just not being enforced by the UK. Still he blames the EU!

Then, on to wages. He compared his p/h to Norway and Iceland. The latter is generally £22 p/h apparently. Sounds good. However - and I wouldn't mind but he actually went there a couple of months ago - that 22 is not nearly so good when you factor in other costs.

IT refused to publicly acknowledge this the other day. But I know he knows. The whole leave EU = better wages is a complete red herring. This money will have to be found by employers, which will lead to higher prices, to inflation, to interest rate rises and to people not affording their mortgages.

And yet still they cling to this utterly flawed notion.


As for monitoring foreigners, best of luck. We're barely policing it now. Imagine when that number suddenly includes EU citizens. Do you think the politicians will have a manifesto saying tax rises for more bureaucracy to monitor immigration? Someone mentioned they'll do it if they want it enough. But they never have before and won't start now.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 2:43 PM BST
why is it better then cyclops ?
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 2:45 PM BST
Because openness is better than insularity and experiencing different cultures expands the mind.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 2:48 PM BST
That’s fine and good , can you give me any examples of how London is more culturally rich than perhaps 50 years ago
Who are the great writers and scientists and musicians and artists etc
Any names ?
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 2:50 PM BST
I remember the Rolling Stones came  from London , that’s good , that’s culture
That was 50 or 60 years ago of course
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 2:51 PM BST
PP spouting the same old nonsense on this subject. What laws does he think cyclops is breaking?
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 2:53 PM BST
Anything like that. lately cyclops , nothing springs to mind from just now
A new play perhaps , I like the theatre that’s culture
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 2:55 PM BST
Or maybe those millions of people in London are too busy working all the hrs god gives , and not to have very much to show for it
Too busy to worry about culture, I don’t know
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 2:58 PM BST
Are you asking for names of people who are immigrants who have added to our culture or just whether our culture is richer than 50 years ago?
The latter would require a long and necessarily subjective answer.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 3:06 PM BST
I am asking for names yes, the scientists the artists , the musicians , the songs the books the playwrights whatever

anyone famous or who has done something we all might have heard of, something good...go ahead
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 3:07 PM BST
I don't doubt something has been added since the gates were opened in 1998. But was it worth it for those here before 1998?

We have always had people from all over the world. But the last 20 years it is the sheer numbers that have caused all the problems.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 3:09 PM BST
And no I don't mean only immigrants, anyone of course
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 3:11 PM BST
someone from London, anyone famous for doing something good
that would be nice, nice to be able to see the evidence we all like a nice film for example, that's culture also
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 3:18 PM BST
50 years is a long time to cover lfc.
Martin Amis, Julian Barnes, Zadie Smith, Sebastian Faulks, William Boyd, Hilary Mantel, Salman Rushdie, Kazuo Ishiguro, Monica Ali, Hanif Kureishi, Nick Hornby, Helen Fielding, Vikram Seth, Ruth Rendell, Zoe Heller, Michael Moorcock, David Nicholls, Andrea Levy, Sarah Walters.
There's some novelists for you.
As far as I know they either live/have lived in London or written novels based in London.
Not sure what we're achieving though.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 3:43 PM BST
ok Cyclops, lets take a look
martin amiss, British, born 1949, same generation as the stones

Julian barnes , born 1949, likewise

zadie smyth, born 1975, ok, not as old as the rest

Sebastian faulks, born 1953, not London

now that's the first 4 , cant be bothered to check some of the others either

ps Martin Amis not really as good as his father, that was before EU  freedom of movement also
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 3:48 PM BST
You see I don't care where they write their books, or their songs

it is the song that is important, Bowie lived in Berlin for a while

that's not important he was English,well we were good at rock music   born inLondon in fact you could have mentioned him

but then again he was born a long time ago, anyone like him today, recently?
I don't know
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 3:52 PM BST
There may very well be some very great and talented people in London today, who are they again?
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 3:53 PM BST
Im not interested in salmon rushdie, they wanted to murder him
that I suppose is part of their culture
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 3:56 PM BST
sorry Julian barnes is older than that born 1946,
not sure if he is still alive
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 4:01 PM BST
martyn amis born in oxford, no longer lives in London who can blame hi
m

Julian barnes , born in Leicester, please Cyclops I cant waste time checking the rest
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 4:08 PM BST
Most artist's reputations depend on longevity. So it's unlikely that younger ones - although there are many - will have reputations to compare with those I mention.

I mentioned novelists because we could be here a very long time if we covered all your suggested categories. The ones I mentioned have written, and most continue to write, within the timescale you mentioned.

Why is it important that they live specifically in London? They have all concentrated on London in their books and/or lived in London at some stage.

Julian Barnes has just written an excellent novel, "The Only Story". If you classify him as part of another generation I don't understand what point you're making. In fact, what is your point? That London culture has died since the Stones/since we entered an era of net migration?
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 4:51 PM BST
cyclops I am afraid you are wrong , no artist, no songwriter , no scientist , can do anything new or important after the age of about 30
The stones were young , Einstein was young , Newton was young , the impressionists were young
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 4:55 PM BST
So my point is very simple  , London is no longer a great city  producing great people and great things
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 5:22 PM BST
Alexander Fleming was 47 when he discovered Penicillium.
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 5:23 PM BST
Louis Pasteur was 42 when he discovered Pasteurisation.
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 5:25 PM BST
Wilhelm Röntgen was 40 when he discovered x-rays
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 5:26 PM BST
Dmitri Mendeleev was 35 when he discovered the periodic table.
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 5:27 PM BST
William Herschel was 62 when he discovered infrared.
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 27, 2018 5:36 PM BST
Oh IT, one day you're gonna have to front up and tell us where this money tree is that's going to magically pay for these higher salaries.
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 5:43 PM BST
PP where do you think it comes from right now to pay for the tax credits etc required to top-up these wages?

Seriously would you and your family be able to survive living in London if you earned £400 a week? Or would state help be required?
Report cyclops June 27, 2018 5:50 PM BST
Lfc, you cite Einstein and Newton and claim that London produces no great people any more when the former never lived in the uk and Newton lived in Lincolnshire and Cambridge.
You knock my list but all you’ve managed to produce is the Rolling Stones.
Who’s in your list of London Greats?
Report tony57 June 27, 2018 6:29 PM BST
cyclops is right..its great having other nationalitys here and working together..i worked in a factory in holland early 90s..with dutch, and spanish,and few lads from aruba..we were all on same money..good for the time..there was plenty of work and all was good...i was in holland 6mths ago...old friend, screams about immigration...talks like holland has been taken over....he is very right wing...but if there is TOO MUCH immigration then we have problems...and so here we are...all them years ago we worked together we came from countrys who were about the same standard of living?
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 8:31 PM BST
IT let me explain, to do something new and important in culture it means creating a new way of thinking

Now I know for example Van Morrison could still write good songs, even perhaps great ones after the age of 30
but they were few and far between, and crucially he knew how to do so , like all others in rock music when he was young,
he already had all the knowledge required and that was when he became great..when he was young

In art, for example de vinci was creating great painting as an old man, but he knew everything long before that
And it took young people, ie the impressionists to find a different way to paint, a different way to see the world indeed
a way no one had ever thought of before
They were young when they discovered this, although Monet was producing great paintings intp old age, it was as young men that the impressionists discovered how to do things

Science, Einstein found a new way to see the world also, as a young man in his twenties

Computer revolution, it was 3 or 4 young men in California who produced this , Wazniak and Gates`etc, and they arte still able to do good things
But they produced something new a new form of science or art
When they were young
That's how it is
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 8:36 PM BST
Impressionism had never been seen before, never in the history of art in the centuries before
It was a new way of thinking, by young people

rock music had never been heard before, in the history of music
it was young people again

and it is the same even in mathematics and science etc, DNA and the theory of life
Watson and Crick hadn't even left school
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 8:37 PM BST
Wazniak and Gates? yep, hadn't even left school
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 8:40 PM BST
some older people are good at writing books for example
but they will never right a new book, a new type of book, the novel they are writing is always the same novel
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 8:45 PM BST
obviously for a writer or a musician or an artistit is a little easier to do something when young as opposed to a scientist
because in science you tend to have to be given the chance to work in the field, maybe over a few years after university whatever
but nevertheless it is notable how many young scientists make their discoveries when young

Einstein spent 50 0r 60 years trying to come up with a new idea after his 20s
never managed to do so
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 8:57 PM BST
Charles Darwin, a new way of thinking
he was 22 when he visited the Galapagos islands
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 9:24 PM BST
1971, you ignored the people over 30 who made major discoveries I listed. Why?
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 9:38 PM BST
Well it’s like this those inventions of discoveries in science didn’t require a new way of thinking
In that sense it was only a matter of time before they were discovered , for a clever person someone would have got there

However if we consider Einstein’s theories well , I wouldn’t go so far as to say that they may never have been thought of by any other person
But it’s possible

De Vinci could have lived all his life and several more producing great paintings , but he might never have thought of painting in a new way or seeing the world in a new way

That’s the difference
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 9:39 PM BST
Any clearer ?
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 9:53 PM BST
No. It is totally and utterly wrong.

For instance Stephen Hawking discovered Hawking radiation when he was 31. He discovered N=8 Supergravity at the age of 37.

In fact much of the work he did in his 30s proved the theories he developed in his 20s were actually wrong.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 10:01 PM BST
Yes he had those new theories when he was young , very good

Of course they bag have been wrong that’s a different  thing , he never had any more
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 10:04 PM BST
Now I think there’s no point continuing  if you can’t understand that hawking was young when he had some new ideas
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 10:05 PM BST
Newton also , can’t be bothered to check his age maybe in his twenties
His ideas have stood the test of time

Sign in
Report InsiderTrader June 27, 2018 10:13 PM BST
lfc1971
27 Jun 18 22:01
Joined: 06 Nov 11
| Topic/replies: 23,738 | Blogger: lfc1971's blog
Yes he had those new theories when he was young , very good

Of course they bag have been wrong that’s a different  thing , he never had any more

^

He had some new incorrect theories when he was in his 20s.

He has some more new theories when he is in 30s.
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 11:01 PM BST
so we have some theories in his twenties , and some in his thirties that’s young in anyone’s book
now i don’t know anything about them so I must admit they may be important they may not if the maths is there fine
I know he was famous for something , what was that exactly ?
Report lfc1971 June 27, 2018 11:17 PM BST
I’m reading up on it , may be some time : )
Report tony57 June 28, 2018 10:46 AM BST
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpop

ONS we are now 66m for the first time....
Report tony57 June 28, 2018 10:47 AM BST
Immigration continues to be the main driver of UK population growth. As the ONS notes: 'Immigration in the year to mid-2017 was still 572,000, broadly in line with the average number of immigrants over the last five years (569,000).' Our population brief: https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/population …

1 reply 8 retweets 5 likes
Reply 1   Retweet 8   Like 5   Direct message
Report tony57 June 28, 2018 10:48 AM BST
England's population has increased by around 4.5 million since 2008, from 51.1 million to 55.6 million. England is already the second most densely populated country in the EU (after the Netherlands, and not counting city and island states such as Malta). https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/356 …

as i mentioned ...my mate in holland has a reason to be mad....
Report lfc1971 June 28, 2018 10:54 AM BST
One of the first things that should be done post brexit is for every recruitment company in the country to be shut down

They are more like a plague on a country than a help
Report cyclops June 28, 2018 11:56 AM BST
That would be a problem for me as I own one.
Bit of forum solidarity lfc!
Report tony57 June 28, 2018 12:26 PM BST
Laugh
Report tony57 June 28, 2018 12:26 PM BST
good for you cyclops....
Report lfc1971 June 28, 2018 1:14 PM BST
I know cyclops , don’t listen to me I couldn’t resist it  : )

who knows when I might need a job , maybe a quiet small office out of the way
not too busy, large and difficult tasks I cannot perform
and not too many obligations ?
That would be ideal
Report cyclops June 28, 2018 1:18 PM BST
Funnily enough, though, I largely agree.
While I wouldn't ban them I would regulate them to the hilt. Vast numbers out there screwing their workers and the taxpayer. Largely a parasitical industry, though it doesn't have to be so.
Report lfc1971 June 28, 2018 1:24 PM BST
Thank goodness at last a remainer with some common sense
Report tony57 June 28, 2018 2:26 PM BST
again good to see some honesty..pity so many lack it..i pride myself on my honesty...cyclops, i see one by me..and the jobs look to be very poor quality? is that the norm?or does it depend on area etc...
Report cyclops June 28, 2018 2:45 PM BST
Depends on a lot of things, but, yes, there are a lot of bottom-feeders around.
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 28, 2018 5:49 PM BST
I think like a lot of incentivised jobs where staff get nice bonuses for filling roles it's open to people being treated as numbers. (see also that immigration story in today's Guardian!)

Would agree that regulation is need to protect the poorest from being manipulated.
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