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18 Jun 18 14:10
Date Joined: 25 Aug 05
| Topic/replies: 7,720 | Blogger: InsiderTrader's blog
Germany's Chancellor, Angela Merkel, is facing the fight of her political life, as a major row over the country's migration and refugee policy threatens to topple her from the post she has held since 2005.
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Pause Switch to Standard View Merkel could finally be deposed due...
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Report jed.davison June 18, 2018 2:12 PM BST
Report detraveller June 18, 2018 11:34 PM BST
She faced similar disagreements after election, rather before as well. She not only got the votes but also the rank. She'll get through this.
Report lfc1971 June 19, 2018 12:06 AM BST
She will be lucky not to end up in jail
Report detraveller June 19, 2018 8:40 AM BST
sort of shows you have no clue about how things work in politics.

Not saying she is not going to pay a price, but in the worst case, she will have to give up office. She will never go to court, let alone end up in jail. How do you come up with these scenarios?
Report Dr Crippen June 21, 2018 2:38 PM BST
She'll get through this.

Typical. A left-winger defending a politician who has imposed an alien culture on millions of their country's citizens.
Report detraveller June 21, 2018 3:53 PM BST
As I repeatedly point out here, just because I say something in favor of a politician doesn't mean im his or her fan. Based on what she has done to Germany and still come out on top, especially in terms of the elections and her office, I would say she will get through this.

I see you've also thrown in the left-winger label there. Typical of the sheep to just blame everything on a label.
Report detraveller June 21, 2018 3:55 PM BST
And of course I didin't defend her. But English might not be your first language so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt there.
Report Dr Crippen June 23, 2018 1:27 PM BST
Typical of the sheep to just blame everything on a label.

Hilarious, using a label to criticise another poster for using a label.

And there's plenty to justify the label I used to describe you; the outrage shown in your last post is very typical of a frustrated left-winger.
Report detraveller June 23, 2018 1:58 PM BST
You assumed again that just because I said Merkel will get through, I support her. And no i'm not frustrated.

You need to calm down and think :)
Report detraveller June 23, 2018 2:37 PM BST
Just out of interest, if I had said Merkel would be deposed, would that make me a right-winger?
Report sageform June 25, 2018 9:04 AM BST
Not sure about Germany but in most countries opposition to immigration is not a left/right issue any more than Brexit is here. I consider myself to be Conservative on most economic issues such as taxation, nationalised industries, regulation etc. but I am opposed to the power and influence of multinationals who don't operate in a free market economy, they are effectively monopolies. I would limit any company to 10% of a market apart from a few exceptions such as defence. Similarly on immigration I couldn't care less where people come from so long as they obey the laws of the country they have moved to (and that includes expat brits abroad) but I strongly support a limit to the size of our population as there is a limit to how much new infrastructure and housing we can provide.
Report Shab June 27, 2018 5:17 PM BST
Not just that sage, if we had unlimited immigration we must also totally remove the welfare state.

It it basic economics. A free product will have infinite demand.
Report sageform June 29, 2018 8:53 AM BST
True. Merkel seems to have escaped last night with a little help from her friends but they didn't really agree on anything significant. Bung a few million Euros to Turkey, Libya, Algeria etc. and ask them to control their borders. Laughable.
Report InsiderTrader June 29, 2018 9:15 AM BST
The migrant centres sets up inside the EU to decide who goes back are a complete waste of time. Once people are in the EU they simply do not go back. It is too expensive. It takes 2 agents to fly one person back. Costs thousands per send back.

What has been agreed?

In addition to the migrant processing centres, hosted by EU members on a voluntary basis, the 28 EU leaders also agreed several other measures:

1. strengthening external border controls, and boosting financing for Turkey and countries in North Africa

We know that the NGO ships oppose the Libyan coast guard picking up people and taking them back to Libya because of condition there. NGO ships need to be taken out of the picture.

2. exploring the possibility of "regional disembarkation platforms", which are aimed at breaking the business model of people-smuggling gangs by processing refugees and migrants outside the EU. However getting North African countries to host such centres could be very difficult and Morocco again on Thursday rejected the idea
Non starter. No one wants to host these camps.

3. internal measures taken by member states to stop migrants moving within the EU, which the agreement said undermined asylum policy and the border-free Schengen travel area boosting efforts to "prevent the development of new sea or land routes" into Europe

Europe has to change its way of life to cope with illegals? Just not seem right.
4. more investment in Africa to hep the continent achieve a "substantial socio-economic transformation" so people no longer leave for a better life

Been tried and tested. The money never actually helps due to corruption. The more aid that is given the more dependent people come.

5. Further work to reform EU asylum policy, including changes to the so-called Dublin regulation under which migrants must be considered for asylum in the first safe country where they arrive

Again will not happen. If Dublin is cancelled countries with put up controls between themselves.
Report Foinavon June 29, 2018 11:52 AM BST
What appears to be missing from the EU list is facilitating trade with African countries. Rather than bunging them money which as stated doesn't help, the EU should be dropping tariff barriers especially on food products to help African farmers and others build their businesses and employ more people. No prizes for guessing why the EU won't consider this.
Report moisok June 29, 2018 3:38 PM BST
Interesting one foinavon  - I am thinking trade with africa.  Good opportunities?  Quite a few countries need a considerable amount of stability though.
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 29, 2018 3:46 PM BST
I would agree with that Foin. Can imagine our capitalists will be using any trade deal to sell them stuff they don't need but we should be looking at the bigger picture and offering favourable terms to countries who are stable and who work towards "western ideals" for want of a better phrase so we can do something to stop the next humanitarian crisis from starting if possible.
Report InsiderTrader June 29, 2018 4:21 PM BST
Traditionally (before we joined the EU cartel) we used to export manufactured goods to the Commonwealth and import food in return. Countries like NZ, Australia, Zimbabwe produced far more food than they could eat. Obviously this all ended with EU membership and tariffs supporting EU farmers.
Report sageform June 29, 2018 4:37 PM BST
They don't "need" products any more or less than we do. We could all do without Televisions, Computers, cars etc. as well as insurance, pensions etc. but we choose to buy them and who are we deny them to Africans and South Americans who can afford them? The only way to cure economic instability, corruption and migration is to empower the local people. The EU have denied them markets for years (I have first hand experience with a farm in Brazil which could not get access to EU markets for the 45 years that I owned it)
Report InsiderTrader June 29, 2018 4:40 PM BST
Was thinking more like tractors, irrigation systems and cutting tool machinery.
Report Foinavon June 29, 2018 9:52 PM BST
I also think that we should be buying manufactured goods and we should be helping them with this.
For example, instead of buying raw coffee beans from the producing nations, the large food processors like Nestle and Mondelez should be required to set up roasting and packaging facilities in the country of origin for a reasonable part of their production. Allowing value to be added at source rather than buying commodities at rock bottom prices then adding all the value in consumer countries would be a big help.
Report InsiderTrader June 30, 2018 9:40 AM BST
The EU has a massive tariff on processed coffee. Not on unprocessed. The markup is made in Europe.
Report InsiderTrader June 30, 2018 9:45 AM BST
This article sums up just have disgraceful the EU is:

Take the example of coffee. In 2014 Africa —the home of coffee— earned nearly $2.4 billion from the crop. Germany, a leading processor, earned about $3.8 billion from coffee re-exports.

The concern is not that Germany benefits from processing coffee. It is that Africa is punished by EU tariff barriers for doing so. Non-decaffeinated green coffee is exempt from the charges. However, a 7.5 per cent charge is imposed on roasted coffee. As a result, the bulk of Africa’s export to the EU is unroasted green coffee.
Report detraveller June 30, 2018 12:24 PM BST
So when I said earlier that Merkel will get through this, I was labelled a 'left-winger'

How hard was it to see that a politician who managed to form a govt after elections, after all she had done to Germany, would not be able to negotiate with a bunch of politicians in a closed room? Conte is satisfied with her decisions. What more do those in denial need to know?

As for the steps mentioned by InsiderTrader above,
1. There is a reason why these organisations re called 'non-governmental'. The govt can use them at their will and no one can ask questions. These 'NGOs' were the ones that brought all the migrants here, they were definitely working under govt orders.
2. There is no good reason why North African countries would want to stop their people leaving the country.
3. They'll probably convince the public stricter laws are needed, the public will nod, and so they'll have more control over the sheep. Simple.
4. There will definitely be more aid. Everyone knows the aid won't reach the people. Its the money that politicians throw to other countries to gain politicial influence. Sadly people haven't ever realized that.
5. Its an issue that can easily be milked for the next few years without any substantial progress.
Report detraveller June 30, 2018 12:39 PM BST

Jun 21, 2018 -- 8:38AM, Dr Crippen wrote:

She'll get through this. Typical. A left-winger defending a politician who has imposed an alien culture on millions of their country's citizens.

The reason why politicians will always have control over sheep like you is because you live inside a box happy to blame everything on a bunch of sheep living in another box.

Report Foinavon July 1, 2018 10:39 PM BST
Seehofer has offered his resignation, not good news for Mutti.
Report enpassant July 2, 2018 1:02 AM BST

Jun 30, 2018 -- 6:39AM, detraveller wrote:

Jun 21, 2018 --  2:38PM, Dr Crippen wrote:She'll get through this. Typical. A left-winger defending a politician who has imposed an alien culture on millions of their country's citizens.The reason why politicians will always have control over sheep like you is because you live inside a box happy to blame everything on a bunch of sheep living in another box.

Excellently funny !

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