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bigpoppapump
11 Jan 18 12:51
Joined:
Date Joined: 16 Dec 02
| Topic/replies: 4,948 | Blogger: bigpoppapump's blog
No he's not dead.

But he is calling for a second referendum.

WTF?

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Report jed.davison January 12, 2018 10:35 AM GMT
I have dealt with the result of the 2017 General Election, eight months is more than sufficient to come to terms with an election result.

You appear however to still be struggling to accept the events of the previous year.
Report jed.davison January 12, 2018 10:36 AM GMT
Excuse me, who are the decent people of this country?
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 10:39 AM GMT
Remain cannot articulate a feasible plan for the future . Why?
Because we see the past and the present
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 10:40 AM GMT
The evidence is there , people have lived that evidence
That's all they need to know
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 10:45 AM GMT

You appear however to still be struggling to accept the events of the previous year.


2016 - 52% voted for leaving the EU.
2017 - article 50 gets triggered.
2017 - General Election - MPs elected to manage the Exit.

claiming will of the people arguments for a referendum about 1 question, when there's been a GE since is what people do if they have no power arising from the General Election.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 10:49 AM GMT
MPs were not elected to manage the exit .
The government was
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 10:51 AM GMT
Once the referendum result was in there should no longer have been leave and remain politicians
they should all have been leave
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 10:52 AM GMT
All MPs who voted remain should immediately have become leave after the referendum result
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 10:52 AM GMT
If Article 50 had not been triggered, I would agree with you.  You'd be right.  The will of the people would have been ignored.

but it was triggered.  Then an election happened.

why have another referendum?

because the extremist view of a no-deal, economically isolationist, low-tax, European Singapore, with a fractured and low funded public sector (and destroyed NHS) was not voted for by "the people".

Try to go for this version of the future, and "the people" will vote against it.  40% Labour. 40% conservative.  Where's your extremists?  Some UKIPs and half the Tories but the sensible Tories are still in charge.  Once the reasonable Tories go, and you get the right wing extremist attempt to hijack the left-wing reasons for leaving the EU, then you'll also see the moderate conservatives fly to the safest haven (whether a resurgent Lib party, or a moderate looking Labour Party).

Sorry guys, but you - old right wingers who post here - cannot win on the numbers.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 10:53 AM GMT
That would have been the only honourable and democratic thing to do
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 10:54 AM GMT
The election was totally immaterial in regards to the referendum and leaving the eu
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 10:59 AM GMT
No one in parliament , not the prime minister , or cabinet , or opposition and backbenchers or the House of Lords
or the Queen herself has any more say of importance than either you or me
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:02 AM GMT
the MPs do actually lfc.

They've been voted for in order to make decisions.  It's how societies have evolved for reasons of cohesion over many many years.

Obviously this doesn't apply to the Queen. That's a different matter.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:05 AM GMT
That's not the case and the MPs themselves said that in the law that was passed with the referendum bill before we voted
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:07 AM GMT
the election was not immaterial to how we leave the EU.  It happened after we'd declared that we were leaving the EU, but (even you) have probably realised there are several possible versions of what leaving looks like.

If there weren't alternative versions of what leaving looks like then Farage (the 7 time losing bell-end) wouldn't be talking about second referendums.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:09 AM GMT
The process is thus once we have left then the elected government , not parliament ,  can make dexisions on trade
Not before
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:10 AM GMT
are you aware there are talks going on with the EU?
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:12 AM GMT
All future labour or Tory or whatever givernments , not parliament ,can make decisions on trade etc
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:13 AM GMT
Have we made any decisions in these talks ?
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:15 AM GMT
It matters not , we will always talk even in twenty years time about trade
That is for our elected government at the time , it's natural nothing to do with being in the EU
Report Dr Crippen January 12, 2018 11:17 AM GMT
the election was not immaterial to how we leave the EU.  It happened after we'd declared that we were leaving the EU

You are wrong bigbobalula.

It was made clear by both the remain side and the leave side, that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market and also leaving the customs union.

That is what we voted for when we chose to leave the EU.
Anything less than that is not what was voted for.
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:24 AM GMT
single market and customs union not mentioned on my ballot paper.  please post a link to evidence your point.
Report unitedbiscuits January 12, 2018 11:26 AM GMT
Shab's request for a positive case to be made for remaining in the EU is a fair one and the failure of Cameron and the Remain campaign to promote a positive case led to its failure. Cameron could not even bear to mention the EU without the prefix "reformed." And this against the drumbeat of Fleet St papers each publishing two articles a day for decades with one uncontested message "the EU is bad."
What should have been argued imo:

1) Are you a positive or a negative person? Do you get what you want in life by striving for it or by turning your back? We are cutting ties with the EU; never mind Liam Fox's forays around the Pacific Rim, we are not joining anything by leaving the EU. In fact, the corollory of leaving was the hope that it would destroy the EU too, and that is a gambit bound to fail. Brexit has strengthened the resolve of the other 27 to stand together, and cemented the core strength of France/Germany/Low Countries - who together will always be more important than the UK. Breaking something is easy, making something is much harder. On a related note, the EU grew out of the wreckage of two World Wars, to help avoid another. Besides  the
recklessness of wishing it swept away,  Brexit thinkers have simply underestimated the will to make it work after those wars.
2) Europeans are more like us than the rest of the world. If you prefer Christianity to other religions and like to have things in common with your neighbour, then Europe is the natural choice. They are kin. Many would assert that the USA, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa are closer to our way of life but, painfully, we can't remake a colonial past. When all the Europeans leave unwanted and non EU immigration ramps up, the four main pools for labour will be India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria.

That's my rationale for sticking with the EU. People who never fought in a war get het up about the EU "never signing off their books; " to me those people have lost perspective. Sure, it is a very imperfect body but we can make it better. Those arguments are far more important to me than the economic one, which I take as a given: Brexit  makes us relatively poorer.
Report Dr Crippen January 12, 2018 11:27 AM GMT
Basically bigbopalula is calling for a second referendum because he wasn't paying attention before he voted in the first.

Well it don't work like that. They can't keep calling elections until everybody gets up to speed.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:30 AM GMT
neither did it ask did the British people want to stop freedom of movement
If there is another referendum it then must ask that  , and any other thing such as being a member of the single market and customs union
That is fine , imo if it was stated explicitely on the first ballot that immigration would stop  the leave vote would even much greater
So remainers should be careful of asking for certain things that were missing
And not others
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:30 AM GMT
Crippen is wrong - I'm not calling for a second ref at all. 

Laugh

I think it was stupid to have one, and I think it would be stupid to have another.
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:31 AM GMT
Love how old guys assume they know what someone else is saying without reading or checking.

Laugh

what a clown.
Report Dr Crippen January 12, 2018 11:32 AM GMT
I'm not calling for a second ref at all. 

To be honest bigbobalula, I don't think you know what you want.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:33 AM GMT
I'll make you a proposal bigpop
Another ballot with membership of the customs union and the single market stated on the ballot
And also to stop free movement of people and on the ballot also
Ok ?
Report Dr Crippen January 12, 2018 11:35 AM GMT
why have another referendum?

because the extremist view of a no-deal, economically isolationist, low-tax, European Singapore, with a fractured and low funded public sector (and destroyed NHS) was not voted for by "the people".


What's that if not a call for another referendum?
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:35 AM GMT
I'm not calling for a second ref at all.

To be honest bigbobalula, I don't think you know what you want.


you have no frame of reference for this comment as you don't know me.

you clearly do not read (or remember) particularly well.  I have never posted here that a second ref would be a good idea and have told UB why he's wrong to want one.

I know exactly my position.  and your help - telling me my position - is a waste of your time (other than to remind people what a fool you are).
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:35 AM GMT
You can't just ignore freemovement of people just because it wasn't on the ballot ,
let's put it on , explicitly
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:35 AM GMT
why have another referendum?

because the extremist view of a no-deal, economically isolationist, low-tax, European Singapore, with a fractured and low funded public sector (and destroyed NHS) was not voted for by "the people".

What's that if not a call for another referendum?


That's a summary of Farage's call for a ref.  Because he's not getting what he wants.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:36 AM GMT
bigpop doesn't want one because he thinks he can get away with ignoring the result of the first one
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:38 AM GMT
He didn't like the result , and like many there's are determined to ignore it if possible
Report Dr Crippen January 12, 2018 11:38 AM GMT
If you're going to quote people then brush up your English and make it clear that you're doing that you berk.
Report Arleystation January 12, 2018 11:38 AM GMT
single market and customs union not mentioned on my ballot paper.

Do you want every party's election manifesto attached to all ballot papers in every General Election? Of course not.

It was made quite clear on both sides of the argument before the Referendum that leaving the EU would mean leaving the single market and customs union.
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:38 AM GMT
I don't think we should have another ref because of the same reasons the first one was a bad idea.
Report Dr Crippen January 12, 2018 11:39 AM GMT
To be fair I don't think that English is his first language.
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:40 AM GMT
If you're going to quote people then brush up your English and make it clear that you're doing that you berk.

just learn to read and understand or stop posting.

I'll take that as your apology for completely misunderstanding based on your shallow prejudiced assumptions.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:40 AM GMT
That's ok bigpop , I disagree
Report Dr Crippen January 12, 2018 11:40 AM GMT
If it had been on the ballot paper bigbopalula still wouldn't have understood it.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:42 AM GMT
Whether referendums or even elections are a good thing is a matter for the individual
That's not the point , we've had one
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:44 AM GMT
Now I don't want bigpop to come up with any nonsense about the customs union mising from the ballot
Unless he also mentions that freemovenent was missing also
That seems to me to be a good arrangement
Report unitedbiscuits January 12, 2018 11:44 AM GMT
The gist of a previous convo for the benefit of Dr Crippen:

Bigpop: A Referendum is a bad idea, like designing an aircraft by committee and popular vote. It won't work.
UB: But now the aircraft is on the runway and your children are boarding.
Big Pop: Don't care. Two wrongs don't make etc..
Report Dr Crippen January 12, 2018 11:45 AM GMT
It was made quite clear on both sides of the argument before the Referendum that leaving the EU would mean leaving the single market and customs union.

Absolutely Arleystation.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:48 AM GMT
I doesn't matter if an aircraft doesn't work , what's wrong with that
There are plenty of aircraft that do
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:51 AM GMT
because we only have one country lfc, so it (the only plane we have) has to work.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:51 AM GMT
There is absolutely no need to design any more aircraft
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:53 AM GMT
If any country anywhere in the world manages to come up with a good ideal, unlikely I know , we can copy it
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 11:54 AM GMT
if "everyone knew what they were voting for" is the point being made?  answer me this:

Why was the (pretend) imminent accession of Turkey to the EU a point of the Leave campaign?

my view - you can disagree if you want - was that this was a way to get votes from people who would vote on their fear that this may happen. 

Project Fear was not only used by one side.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:58 AM GMT
It's part of the picture , people have seen millions of Muslims coming into Europe , they also see that politicians such as Cameron and others in Germany etc want to allow Turkey , with 80 million of more Muslims into Europe
That's not good and enough reason right there to vote to leave , imo
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:59 AM GMT
It's part of the picture , people have seen millions of Muslims coming into Europe , they also see that politicians such as Cameron and others in Germany etc want to allow Turkey , with 80 million of more Muslims into Europe
That's not good and enough reason right there to vote to leave , imo
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 11:59 AM GMT
It's part of the picture , people have seen millions of Muslims coming into Europe , they also see that politicians such as Cameron and others in Germany etc want to allow Turkey , with 80 million of more Muslims into Europe
That's not good and enough reason right there to vote to leave , imo
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 12:00 PM GMT
But it's ok, it wasn't on the ballot
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 12:00 PM GMT
why post-referendum - were some people dancing around in the streets singing "they're going home, they're going home?"

These people had not been voting on the technical questions of the future shape of their economic relationships with the rest of the world, had they?  Something else had appealed to these people...

Now you've got dishonest and disingenuous positioning of the referendum result as a lever to try to force things through on the agenda of a very narrow (but committed and vocal) minority.  It's not democratic.

but - lucky for us - it's easy to spot.  They use the phrase "will of the people" and give themselves away.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 12:03 PM GMT
As I explained before, millions of people who hate Britain didn't vote on the economic possible outcomes either ,
That's millions of remainers
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 12:06 PM GMT
when they talk about someone with a different view to them as "people who hate Britain" you know who they are. 

They give themselves away.  Easy to spot and therefore not to be feared.
Report lfc1971 January 12, 2018 12:09 PM GMT
Well now if you are allowed to make assumptions about people , then so am I
That seems to me to be a good arrangement
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 12:12 PM GMT
Dr Crippen 12 Jan 18 11:39 
To be fair I don't think that English is his first language.


more incorrect and prejudiced nonsense from you know who.

Crippen having an absolute shocker today and getting his proverbials handed to him.
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 12:13 PM GMT
everyone knows what you represent lfc.
Report Dr Crippen January 12, 2018 12:25 PM GMT
At least bigbopolula has stopped calling people names.

more incorrect and prejudiced nonsense from you know who.

How am I prejudiced?
Report Dr Crippen January 12, 2018 12:26 PM GMT
You see your temperament gives you away.

An factual observation is not prejudice.
Report bigpoppapump January 12, 2018 12:31 PM GMT
a factual observation?

that English isn't my first language.

fascinated by your explanation...
Report edy January 12, 2018 12:36 PM GMT
To be fair, I think English is his first language. That'd explain why his level of written English is substandard.
Report Dr Crippen January 12, 2018 12:39 PM GMT
I'll get my coat after that.
Report moisok January 12, 2018 1:28 PM GMT
read what farage actually said please
Report moisok January 12, 2018 1:32 PM GMT
why do remainers resort to insults ?
Report Wallflower January 13, 2018 10:48 AM GMT
Arleystation
     12 Jan 18 11:38   

single market and customs union not mentioned on my ballot paper.

Do you want every party's election manifesto attached to all ballot papers in every General Election? Of course not.

It was made quite clear on both sides of the argument before the Referendum that leaving the EU would mean leaving the single market and customs union.



Can we just put this one to bed - this is incorrect. Its not hard to correlate any number of Brexiteers (e.g. Johnson, Hannan and others) - categorically stated it would not impact our position or access to Single Market.

The fact that they hadn't a clue what they wee talking about is a separate issue. But the idea that it was stated clearly we would leave SM is just plain wrong.
Report unitedbiscuits January 13, 2018 11:02 AM GMT
Correct, Wallflower.

Meanwhile>>Marina Hyde does Farage again.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/12/referendum-ii-farage-brexit-steve-bannon

Plenty of breakfast chuckles chez biscuits, especially as the Guardian also reports on p8 that Farage is being docked half his MEP's salary for misspending public funds.
Report Dr Crippen January 13, 2018 11:02 AM GMT
It's hard to imagine how a country could leave the EU and stay in the single market and the customs union at the same time.

To access the single market is the only reason we were in the EU in the first place.

This is like electing Corbyn and his henchmen, and then complaining after they'd turned the UK into a totalitarian commie state.
Report unitedbiscuits January 13, 2018 11:11 AM GMT
Dr Crippen, bongo is your go-to man on the subject of reconciling a Leave vote with staying in the Single Market, and he had ample encouragement from the Leave campaign, as Wallflower has cited.
Report unitedbiscuits January 13, 2018 11:11 AM GMT
That's why we need another referendum.
Report InsiderTrader January 13, 2018 11:22 AM GMT
bigpoppapump
12 Jan 18 11:24
Joined: 16 Dec 02
| Topic/replies: 4,757 | Blogger: bigpoppapump's blog
single market and customs union not mentioned on my ballot paper.  please post a link to evidence your point.

^

This is the big lie wheeled out by the bankers and big business that want to keep the status quo so they can rub the great people of this country noses into the ground.

We have a population crisis due to uncontrolled immigration.

We voted to have controlled immigration. That is clear.

Anyone who votes for uncontrolled immigration is doing so for one reason and one reason only. They benefit financially or electorally (directly or indirectly) from cheap labour. They could not care less that we have a population crisis causing a massive housing crisis and the NHS is at breaking point.

Up until the late 1990s net immigration was around 20k a year for a century. Since then it has been 300k a year.

During that time we have seen an increase the gap between rich and poor, increase in terrorism, unsustainable housing policy meaning the young will never have a home and the NHS pushed to the limits.

We are simply not managing 300k extra people a year. The banks and big business and adminstrators that benefit from the increase are not paying for the infrastructure required.
Report moisok January 13, 2018 11:27 AM GMT
the extra 8 million we now have does not put any pressure on utilities, services, finance, housing etc.   Keep saying this 20 times 3 times a day and you will eventually feel better
Report unitedbiscuits January 13, 2018 11:31 AM GMT
Talking of lies, have a read of this IT:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/06/free-movement-isnt-free-truth-about-eu-immigration

We didn't have uncontrolled immigration at the time of the vote, so the vote couldn't have been to end uncontrolled immigration. That is a falsehood.
Report moisok January 13, 2018 11:36 AM GMT
The clue is in the name  - I was about to say it is a one sided heap of garbage - totally one eyed  - after all it is the new statesman and it would say that wouldn't it.  !!!  ho ho

8 million extra in this country - not a word about the pressure it has put on the whole fabric of our society.
But then they wouldn't would they.
It's a bit like trying to tell the express that the eu isn't doomed ha ha!!!
The new statesman is diametrically opposed in opinion.
hope this balanced view of mine helps.
Report InsiderTrader January 13, 2018 11:36 AM GMT
UB,

Time and again we have voted to control immigration.

The Tories campaigned on this in 2010. They did not deliver.

The EU referendum was about this. Will they deliver?

I dont know.

The vested interests of the bankers and big business is so powerful the people who have lost out through the extra 9 million have no voice with the Tories or New Labour.

With old Labour they are likely to have no voice either as poor people and immigrants are more likely to vote Labour. This means Labour also have a vested interest in uncontrolled immigration and making people poorer.
Report moisok January 13, 2018 11:38 AM GMT
all those millions - lots of cheap labour and welfare grabbers let in for votes by Bliar - amazing scenes.  They called themselves Labour (my party) and hammered the working person, driving wages down!!!
Report unitedbiscuits January 13, 2018 11:43 AM GMT
IT, the fact remains: immigration to the UK was not uncontrolled at the time of the Referendum, therefore uncontrolled immigration could not have been the issue people voted on. To claim otherwise is false.
Report moisok January 13, 2018 11:48 AM GMT
Well you don't care - you said you were all right.  So why bother us with your propaganda.
Only 8 million extra people and counting as they pour in legally and illegally.
Sponsored by your friends promoting the global plan.
Report Dr Crippen January 13, 2018 11:48 AM GMT
Hang on,

When I wrote leaving the single market I meant ''giving up membership of the single market.''

I that's where UB is getting confused.
Report Dr Crippen January 13, 2018 11:52 AM GMT
Membership of the single market means accepting all the strings that go with membership.

Once we're not a member of the EU and the single market we're free to do any deal we choose inside the single market.
Report moisok January 13, 2018 11:53 AM GMT
he's all right  - he said so - he just wants to talk uk plc down like the rest of the bitter losers
Report moisok January 13, 2018 12:01 PM GMT
I see HSBC are ramming it down our throats in its latest advert.
Report unitedbiscuits January 13, 2018 12:16 PM GMT
We voted to have controlled immigration. That is clear.

Anyone who votes for uncontrolled immigration is doing so for one reason and one reason only.


This is false on two levels.
1) Uncontrolled immigration was not an option.
2) It literally was not on the ballot paper.

Like Wallflower, I'm happy to provide correction. We can move on from there.

Elsewhere in the Guardian, Jenny Agutter is asked which living person does she most despise and answers "Nigel Farage, for lying so much."
Oh dear, he's having a bad week-end in my paper.
Report InsiderTrader January 13, 2018 12:20 PM GMT
unitedbiscuits
13 Jan 18 11:31
Joined: 27 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 7,947 | Blogger: unitedbiscuits's blog
Talking of lies, have a read of this IT:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/06/free-movement-isnt-free-truth-about-eu-immigration

We didn't have uncontrolled immigration at the time of the vote, so the vote couldn't have been to end uncontrolled immigration. That is a falsehood.


^^

This is total and utter rubbish and you know it UB.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/12/eu-migrants-without-job-make-city-size-bristol/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36449974

Moving beyond this if an EU citizen has a 'job' can they claim tax credits, send their kids to our schools, use the roads, use the NHS etc?
Report InsiderTrader January 13, 2018 12:23 PM GMT
What could an EU migrant claim today?

EU Migrant arriving today :

    Working tax credit: £1,370 a year for over-25s who earn less than £9,850
    Child tax credit: £6,605 a year for one child or £9,495 for two if they are working at least 16 hours a week with an income of less than £9,850
    Child benefit: £1,076 a year for the eldest child if earning less than £50,000
    Housing benefit: Up to £13,520 a year

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-03/what-benefits-can-eu-migrants-claim/
Report InsiderTrader January 13, 2018 12:24 PM GMT
This is before you look at the rising cost of housing for everyone, pressure on NHS, schools and roads.
Report unitedbiscuits January 13, 2018 12:25 PM GMT
So are you saying immigration WAS uncontrolled at the time of the Referendum? Because that is a lie.
Report InsiderTrader January 13, 2018 12:26 PM GMT
Planned immigration matching the skills we need (e.g. nurses, doctors, etc) is a good this.

Uncontrolled immigration of people for low skilled jobs which need tax credits only benefit the big companies at everyone else's expense.
Report unitedbiscuits January 13, 2018 12:47 PM GMT
So are you saying immigration WAS uncontrolled at the time of the Referendum? Because that is a lie.
Report InsiderTrader January 13, 2018 12:55 PM GMT
Currently immigration from the EU is not being controlled.

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-03/what-benefits-can-eu-migrants-claim/

UB,

What population size of the UK do you want?
Report donny osmond January 13, 2018 12:57 PM GMT
surely the way to tackle tax credit immigration is to raise minimum wage

win win win
Report unitedbiscuits January 13, 2018 1:02 PM GMT
Currently immigration from the EU is not being controlled.

Immigration from the EU is not uncontrolled, it is subject to qualifications. IT is spreading a falsehood.
Report InsiderTrader January 13, 2018 1:07 PM GMT
UB,

If a family from another EU country moves here and the husband gets an £8 an hour low skilled job can the family be sent home by the UK government?
Report unitedbiscuits January 13, 2018 1:14 PM GMT
Ifs and maybes aren't facts IT. If immigration to the UK was uncontrolled at the time of the referendum, your "interpretation" of the vote could possibly be correct. But it wasn't uncontrolled. Happy to correct you, in fact.
Report InsiderTrader January 13, 2018 1:20 PM GMT
Deporting 5,000 people out of over 3 million is only just over 1%. Hardly the solution UB.




EU law on deportation

The law surrounding deportation in the EU comes from Article 28 of Citizens’ Directive 2004/38 which states that EU citizens can only be deported from another member state for reasons of public policy or public security. There are only three situations in which deportation is allowed.

The first requires that alongside the public policy or public security reasons, deportation can only be allowed if adequate consideration of various factors are taken into account. These include how long the person has been living in the country, their age, health, family and financial situation, and how well they’ve integrated into society.

The second situation concerns permanent residents, those who have have lived in a member state for five years or more (you are not required to have documents proving this, though it is necessary for British citizenship applications).

For permanent residents, only serious grounds under public policy or public security will justify expulsion. What a “serious” ground is must be justified by the member states, but there is no guidance in the directive as to what constitutes “serious”. It must relate to a fundamental interest of society. These include preventing unlawful immigration, maintaining public order, preventing tax evasion, countering terrorism and preventing repeat criminal offences.

The third situation is for those who have been in a member state for the last ten years – or minors. In these cases, only imperative grounds of public policy or public security will be accepted. Again, “imperative” grounds are up to the member states to justify and the directive offers no definition. However, it is clear that they are stricter than “serious” grounds. Therefore, the longer you have been in a country, the more difficult it becomes to deport you. Case law has accepted being involved in a drug dealing organisation as an imperative ground of public security, but the general meaning of “imperative” remains unclear.

http://theconversation.com/when-britain-can-deport-eu-citizens-according-to-the-law-86896
Report moisok January 13, 2018 1:23 PM GMT
they are pouring in legally or illegally and the eu helps by giving them the papers for access

it is a ponzi scheme to drive down wages and de unionise the work force

they bus them in to sandwich makers while gangmasters pay below 6 quid wages and then charge them rent to live in shacks

southampton transit production moved from uk abroad with eu money

oh yes  - a real nice family is that good old EU.
Report lfc1971 January 13, 2018 5:24 PM GMT
It is never a good thing for any country to allow free movement into the country
It means the people coming in don't respect the country , well we have seen the inevitable consequences of that
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