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Dr Crippen
11 Dec 17 10:24
Date Joined: 16 Apr 02
| Topic/replies: 37,199 | Blogger: Dr Crippen's blog
Times like these remind me of a basic inequality in how industry differentiates between people who are classed as staff, and the rest who are described as workers.
One set of workers (the staff) look forward to these conditions, simply because they can take the day off by phoning in and saying they can't get to work.

Yet the second set of workers (time workers) will generally make every effort to get to work in all kinds of conditions.

Why the difference in attitude between two sets of workers?

The answer is simple, staff gets paid when they take a day off, but time workers do not.

Something is badly wrong in a society which makes such a sharp distinction between people simply because of what they do for a living.
Yet the labour movement which is up in arms over any kind of discrimination towards minority groups, turns a blind eye to this obvious elephant in the room.

Can any Labour supporter explain to me why left-wingers appear to turn a blind eye to this practise of gross inequality, which is done in the name of divide and conquer?

Or do intellectual left-wingers simply despise their own core supporters many of whom are time paid workers, and couldn't care less how they're treated,?
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Report InsiderTrader December 11, 2017 10:39 AM GMT
Last time I checked Labour were against zero hours contracts.
Report Dr Crippen December 11, 2017 10:43 AM GMT
Yes IT, of course they are but it's only lip service.
What you have to look at is what happens when they get the chance to do something about it.
In the case of the last labour government nothing is the answer.
Report Dr Crippen December 11, 2017 10:48 AM GMT
Although not being paid for time off  goes much further than simply affecting people on zero hour contracts.

Labour doesn't even offer lip service to improving the position of not being paid for time lost in regard of time paid workers on full contracts.
Report bigpoppapump December 11, 2017 11:50 AM GMT
A false premise is an incorrect proposition that forms the basis of an argument or syllogism. Since the premise (proposition, or assumption) is not correct, the conclusion drawn may be in error.
Report PorcupineorPineapple December 11, 2017 11:51 AM GMT
What IT said. Pretty sure Labour made their case on zero hours quite clear.

Of course, part time and flexi work is actually quite convenient for some people and they prefer to work this way rather than be salaried. However, with that flexibility comes the potential issue that this kind of weather presents.

I remember back in the dim and distant past (early 90s) I was doing part time work in a bookies while doing my degree. We got robbed one night. Pretty bad one. 3 guys; sledgehammer through the bandit screens, shotgun aimed at me and another guy guarding the door. Pretty shaken up by it all and I wanted to take a few days off. However, I was only part time and quickly realised time off meant unpaid. So it became one day off and I was back in. Just a part of working flexible time. There were benefits though. I generally made my own rota. If I had exams coming up then I pared my work down, while I could always call at short notice in the morning and normally be guaranteed a shift later that day if I needed it.

I worry a little bit that the zero hours thing might go too far. Workers get exploited and that's what needs curtailing but for a lot of people in a lot of industries working to this kind of schedule is exactly what they want.
Report Dr Crippen December 11, 2017 12:07 PM GMT
Too much is being made here of zero hours contracts.

Which is understandable from the left-wing point of view, because there is at least some ground which they can defend as PP has shown.

Despite that, I an talking even more about a much larger portion of the workforce - fully contracted time workers.

Perhaps someone from the left can defend this gross injustice of docking their wages for time lost, in comparison to paying staff workers when they take time off, which the Labour Party appears to support.

Or attempt to defend the Labour Party in this matter anyway.
Report Injera December 11, 2017 12:19 PM GMT
PP's story is an interesting one (not the shotgun part - yikes.)

Being paid for hours worked increases motivation to attend and hopefully improves productivity, thus leading to higher profits, more tax paid etc..

I'm self employed and decided this wet snow is enough for me to do some DIY at home instead. So no money but I like the freedom I have to decide.
Report PorcupineorPineapple December 11, 2017 12:44 PM GMT
We have part time (mostly students) working here. It works for both us and them. We have peak periods where getting everyone in on 8 hour shifts would be a waste of half their shift so we can focus our staff where most needed while the students come in, pick up their hours and help pay off their student loans. It is essentially zero hours contracts, but it works both ways and we do it fairly and properly.

I think there is that motivation to make the extra effort to get in if you're not getting paid to sit at home. Though, if anyone here said they couldn't come in today then I'd simply be changing their days off to make sure they work their full rota. There may be some usual suspects who'll call in sick though. On the flip side though, if you know you need to have a weekend off to study or to party then there's more scope to take that time off rather than using up holidays which you might need later in the year.
Report Dr Crippen December 11, 2017 12:46 PM GMT
Good for you Injera.

The self employed can take care of themselves, as you say they score in many other ways over  workers employed by others.

What I'm concerned with here is the Labour Party and their deceit, in neglecting this pay some and dock others issue which affects millions of people.
Report lfc1971 December 11, 2017 1:20 PM GMT
Part time work and zero hours contracts are for children , not grown ups ,
It is a disgrace snd simply a means for unscrupulous employers to exploit people , no matter how they dress it up in fancy language

As an aside it is almost always preferable to work for a boss who is middle class or better still upper class
Working class types treat their workers appallingly.
Report lfc1971 December 11, 2017 1:27 PM GMT
There's a few posting on here who would be like that , leftists , well they are not hard to recognise
Report dave1357 December 11, 2017 1:28 PM GMT
I don't think Crippen has worked for anyone for some time.  Many companies will dock a days holiday if employees on full time contracts don't turn up. It is entirely up to the company.
Report lfc1971 December 11, 2017 1:31 PM GMT
Yes I suppose that's progress , we are all becoming wealthier and more secure also
Report InsiderTrader December 11, 2017 2:19 PM GMT

What a terrible story.

Did the bookie outfit provide any counseling for your ordeal?
Report lfc1971 December 11, 2017 2:29 PM GMT
counselling ? that sort of nonsense shouldn't be encouraged
A few days off on full pay would be very nice , that's all
Report Dr Crippen December 11, 2017 4:13 PM GMT
It's remarkable how people at the sharp end of this degrading practice of different  treatment between staff and workers, continue to support the Labour Party who couldn't care less about them.
Report Dr Crippen December 11, 2017 4:33 PM GMT
dave's showing his frustration because he can't defend the practise or his party's support for it.

He doesn't like reading the truth about his self-serving Labour Party.
Report lfc1971 December 11, 2017 4:35 PM GMT
dave's working class , that's what they're like
Report lfc1971 December 11, 2017 4:37 PM GMT
I would hate to work for someone like that
Report lfc1971 December 11, 2017 4:40 PM GMT
I don't want to be tuning about all over the place at different times coming and going not knowing what
I just need a small quiet place and I will work away happily , what's wrong with that ?
Report lfc1971 December 11, 2017 4:54 PM GMT
If you are looking for the ideal type of work , look for an old business large and proud and rich
And find an available warm office , modest and quiet , out of the way
That's best .
Report Dr Crippen December 11, 2017 6:16 PM GMT
Where's dave's post gone that I replied to?

I wanted that to serve as an example of me a right-winger, championing the downtrodden manual worker and being attacked by a left-winger for my troubles.

Which would show the Labour party and left-wingers in general for the hypocrites that they are when they talk about equality.
Report dave1357 December 11, 2017 6:34 PM GMT
and judging from his last few posts lfc1971 seems to have worked on a Charles Dickens set.
Report Dr Crippen December 11, 2017 6:36 PM GMT
As an obvious working class Labour voter, dave should be ashamed of himself when he speaks of workers' employment rights.

If he had any genuine interest in workers' employment rights at all, he'd be in complete agreement with me on this issue.

He's either insincere or very stupid indeed.
Probably never had a job either.
Report lfc1971 December 11, 2017 10:44 PM GMT
: ) well he's completely unemployable with that sort of bolshie attitude ,
a troublemaker if ever I heard one
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