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melv
07 Jun 16 18:58
Joined:
Date Joined: 19 Feb 06
| Topic/replies: 9,925 | Blogger: melv's blog
Ok I’m sad that it looks like are out of Europe. Hope the idealistic dream isn’t lost for ever and the whole thing falls apart into warring nation states as was the norm.

But Brexit is a con is it not? You voted Tory coz Cameron said he would lead the out campaign if he did not get his demands. Liar.

Now look what you get. With 2/3 of MP’s as “Stay” they will only pass Brexit- lite legislation when the treaty is ratified. Which will probably take 10 years. I doubt you will notice the difference.

And you will love this. When the pound falls 20% the Russians, the Chinese, the Arabs and every murderous dictator on the planet will fill his boots with property in the UK. That of course includes Euro billionaires which could easily be parity with the pound. So good Olde England will be mostly owned by Muslim billionaires. And all you patriots will get is over priced housing in the South East. Worth it? For what? What did you really think you would get? Exemption from the Human rights Act?.
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Report melv August 30, 2018 7:48 PM BST
Woke up this morning to very positive front page headlines on The Times. Telegraph and the express.

Barnier says the EU "is prepared to offer a partnership with Britain such as has never been with a third party country".
there

Cheers from Brexiteers all round.


Me too winwinwin win.

Looks like the Norway model. Quoting back to me in 2016 [b]" they will only pass Brexit- lite legislation when the treaty is ratified. Which will probably take 10 years. I doubt you will notice the difference.
[/b]
Brexit light was what we called soft Brexit in them days. Sounds like soft Brexit to me. That'll do nicely

I am amazed; amazed that we are only going to be a couple of months late if this is true. I woz wrong . Maybe.


Barnier also said "Single means market single market with its 4 principles; the UK cannot be allowed a competitive advantage" Still cheering lads?????????


Also there are still problems with the Irish border Barnier tells us. Maybe things will take a little bit longer as I thought.
Report melv November 4, 2018 9:17 AM GMT
Told you so. Don't give me "We were not told this" I've been telling you since before the referendum.


they will only pass Brexit- lite legislation when the treaty is ratified. Which will probably take 10 years. I doubt you will notice the difference.


LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

Seems to be being drip fed us.

You get your Brexit we get our Brexit- lite.


Whats not to like?????...……….………...ooooops sorry there's some on here seem to love a nation disgustingly divided against it self. So do extreme extreme very nasty right wing opportunists.


Two Elephants in the room.

Of course of course what's to stop every nationalist populist in Europe saying "oooooooooooooooooooooo we'll have some of that lovely cake and eat new fangled    UK MODEL   "



Of course we are going to have to pay for it.  And you lot are not going to like that are you?????
Report melv November 14, 2018 3:57 AM GMT
A UK wide backstop and the whole country in the customs union.

Has the penny finally dropped or are there still some on here in denial.


  Come on...…... you are not surprise. Are you?

The whole sad sick charade has been dragged out as long as possible in order for you to get used to the idea and the inevitable.


I predicted that the pantomime will continue for another 8 years. I hope to God I am wrong.


The funny thing is that they rushed in this with no planning or thought  what so-ever then ended up with a deal that was obvious from day one.


And this thread is the living proof of it.
Report eric_morris November 14, 2018 9:29 AM GMT
The con of reMayner in keeping us in the customs union without a say will lead to the rise and rise of the extreme right in the uk.

In life you generally get what you deserve.
Report PorcupineorPineapple November 14, 2018 9:33 AM GMT
I seem to remember it was Leavers who were up in arms when Gina Miller argued the the whole of Parliament should be able to scrutinise the final deal. Leavers thought it should only be the government of the day in charge of negotiating and agreeing our exit.

What's changed?
Report eric_morris November 14, 2018 9:42 AM GMT
That was scrutinize as in Stop. Miller represents the rich and privileged, exactly those who will suffer wealth redistribution if a true Brexit is achieved.

The politicians of left and right are remainers in the majority and will cause right wing extremism to rise in the uk. They will blame racists and not themselves, arrogance as always.
Report PorcupineorPineapple November 14, 2018 9:57 AM GMT
No, that's just plain wrong. It was scrutinise as in scrutinise. As in sovereignty of our Parliament making the decisions for the country. Leavers were up in arms about this. Sovereignty didn't mean sovereignty then it seemed.


Your arrogance over this and other issues is frankly as astounding as it is ironic.
Report eric_morris November 14, 2018 10:00 AM GMT
Miller is there for the rich. There is no doubt it was an attempt to thwart Brexit. The blinkers you wear are worn by many others who will blame racists when the right rises because the electorate have been duped.
Report PorcupineorPineapple November 14, 2018 10:01 AM GMT
again with the arrogance
Report SontaranStratagem November 14, 2018 10:03 AM GMT
Voted to leave but end up staying Laugh did warn people this would happen

May should be hounded out along with the rest of the little worms
Report SontaranStratagem November 14, 2018 10:04 AM GMT
Love how it was all turned into a government thing though

THE PEOPLE voted leave ffs
Report SontaranStratagem November 14, 2018 10:23 AM GMT
"I think from the start of this I may of mentioned that when you vote for a unicorn, don't be surprised if you get a painted donkey with a dildo strapped to its head."

Everyone loves May I see
Report eric_morris November 14, 2018 10:43 AM GMT
Staying in the EU via the customs union is reMayners crucial aim while trying to sell a pig disguised as a unicorn to the public. Absolute filth.
Report lord skywalker November 14, 2018 12:50 PM GMT
labour are truly a rancid outfit, they say their red lines havent been met, staying in customs union and single market, isnt that the core basis of european union membership, youve got labour tryin to stop brexit and the eu saying its our rules or nothin, no wonder may is up against it
Report politicspunter November 14, 2018 12:53 PM GMT
May is up against it through her own choice, namely calling for a totally unwarranted general election. She is solely to blame.
Report moisok November 14, 2018 12:58 PM GMT
Yes this is all very well but what job have they put aside for her after she has done their bidding?
Kinnock did a great job as a 5th columnist and look how his family benefited.!!!!Laugh
My party was anti Eu until he got stirring
Report lord skywalker November 14, 2018 12:58 PM GMT
labour wouldnt of done any better, its clear  labour and the EU dont want us to leave and will try everything to tie the UK as close as possible to the eu, for me personally it was about immagration and getting the numbers down as more migrants only forces the lowest paid into more debt as their wages dont increase
Report moisok November 14, 2018 1:01 PM GMT
they want the money  and they will have an army to back up what the big two want
Report impossible123 November 14, 2018 1:11 PM GMT
The Labour Party leader is a closet EU brexiteer similarly his Chancellor, I firmly believe; the rest with the exception of the white British MP are mostly remainers to the core.

These lot of Labour Party MPs could not organise a pi**-up given the opportunity - there are so fragmented and incohesive eg Corbyn and Starmer. Spend, spend, spend until the Treasury coffers were empty, and that was how they left it when the reign to rule ended last time.
Report politicspunter November 14, 2018 1:24 PM GMT
Good job we have May doing such a good job then...
Report eric_morris November 14, 2018 1:52 PM GMT
Actually Gove is to blame from the moment he stabbed Boris in the back. A Brexiteer in charge would have a great deal or no deal.

politicspunter 14 Nov 18 12:53 Joined: 20 Mar 18 | Topic/replies: 1,123 | Blogger: politicspunter's blog
May is up against it through her own choice, namely calling for a totally unwarranted general election. She is solely to blame.
Report politicspunter November 14, 2018 1:58 PM GMT
Boris had next to no chance then of being leader, same as today.
Report eric_morris November 14, 2018 2:06 PM GMT
We are about to see how much of a Brexiteer Gove is.
Report politicspunter November 14, 2018 2:07 PM GMT
In what way?
Report moisok November 14, 2018 2:20 PM GMT
I'VE LOST MY PADDLE!!!!
Report melv November 15, 2018 4:20 PM GMT
Are you geniuses still saying that you knew what you were doing when you voted for Brexit.


Of course I will not expect even one of you to admit you caused this  when you voted Brexit.


Look at what you have done.


Just when we thought it could not get worse. Mass resignations. Hysteria on the media. Every talking head has a different opinion. Its the falling tower of babel.


I woz wrong when I said.


Too early for this.( call for a referendum) We are just about putting the cliff jumping behind us. I'm happy with this customs union/ backstop jive. Softly softly there could easily be 4 years argy bargy over details yet.



A day is truly a long time in politics.


Instead its total chaos. Referendum. Tory leadership contest. General Election. All are on the cards.
Report melv November 15, 2018 8:09 PM GMT
Love this from Sontaren Strategem.

"I think from the start of this I may of mentioned that when you vote for a unicorn, don't be surprised if you get a painted donkey with a dildo strapped to its head."
Report moisok November 15, 2018 8:52 PM GMT
I am putting the house on the Eu.
Report lord skywalker November 16, 2018 9:20 AM GMT
i voted leave and from day one leave vote has been slammed because everyone thought remain was a done deal, really sick of  it, we wont be worse off if it gets to no deal, nothin will change, we will still trade goods to the eu prices will rise or fall normally, my wages dont rise because of the millions of migrants doing low skilled work
Report lord skywalker November 16, 2018 9:22 AM GMT
its always been about immigration for me and ending eu membership is the only way but if labour get into power or other like mined tories who wanted remain then free movemeant will stay along with the single market
Report bigpoppapump November 16, 2018 9:52 AM GMT
immigration levels are part of national level policy decisions about economics. 

You've been conned into thinking leaving the EU means that we can suddenly do something we have wanted to do all along. If you were correct in your economic analysis then Farage wouldn't need to tell lies about Turkey joining the EU. 

Fear of foreigners is what drives the Leave vote and leaving the EU cannot/will not change the realities of the world.  The UK is always going to be 22 miles from France.

sorry.  We are baked in to the EU and the people who gave a referendum did so for political reasons and should be on trial for having made it appear that 'Leaving' was a viable option.  You were not meant to vote the way you did and that you did has created the problem we now face. 

Cameron needs locking up imo.
Report unitedbiscuits November 16, 2018 10:40 AM GMT
May's deal is the same as no-deal. Brexit fundamentalists worked out every step of leaving years ago. Acrimonious Brexit ensures that it become irreversible. They intend to defecate on the deal, default on the bill and turn the UK into a hostile state adjacent to its "enemy." The only question is timing: March 30th or before.
There are but two choices now: the above, or remain. No in-between.
Report melv November 16, 2018 6:17 PM GMT
Thanks Lord Skywalker. A honest person at last. Even Jeremy Corbyn is saying that he is against the importation of cheap labour undercutting wages and working conditions.


Very few people say the reason they voted was to reduce or even remove migrants from this country. Most claim to be  brilliant economists or geniuses about global deals. A lot of hot air and to say the least micy taking and mockery could have been  avoided if more peopple were as honest as you.


FWIW worth immigration is a massive issue all over Europe and I honestly beleive that the EU is about to tighten up the rules...….Even more.


By the way did you know that the Eu already has restrictions on Immigration and they are applied in many countries. We however did not bother with them. Not becasue of the EU but independently of our  own volition.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/06/free-movement-isnt-free-tru...
Report unitedbiscuits November 16, 2018 6:22 PM GMT
What if you acquiesce to Brexit, only to find on March30th that Brexiteers make good on their promise and default, Melv?
No way back then.
Report melv November 16, 2018 8:10 PM GMT
What if you acquiesce to Brexit, only to find on March30th that Brexiteers make good on their promise and default, Melv?
No way back then.


Voters have no power.

Brexiteers have no power.

Politicians have no power.

Parliament has no power.

Who ever it is that influences central Banks. Who ever it is that administrates the establishment. Who ever it is that tells the civil servants to tell the politicians what to do. They have the power.


And they will not allow the cliff jump; its too inconvenient to the powerful. We have to have a soft Brexit to pay lip service to " democracy".


FOR NOW.


Or do you think your little vote every few years influences anything?


BUT NOBODY SAW BREXIT COMING.


NOBODY SAW TRUMP COMING


And the genie has to put back in its bottle.


So how do we get to the internationalist socialist future. Am I cow towing to the powers that be? Am I acquiescing?


(1) We need a glasnost of the underlying power structures. When we can see them we can fight them.


(2)We need to realise that the powers are failing. Capitalism is failing and its causing a rebirth of fascism.

(3) We need a global power system that works. That can impose international law on warmongers, fanatics of all kinds, and end to Kleptocracies and all kinds and forms of global gangsterism.


(4) We Need world laws and a world currency. We need an end to poverty and health and education for all bar non. And we need super green technolgy and an end to the threat of climate catastrophe.
Report unitedbiscuits November 16, 2018 8:18 PM GMT
Melv - you are aiming for an unattainable target to avoid choosing from the real options before you. It's a form of cowardice.
Report melv November 16, 2018 9:14 PM GMT
Biscuits I've got for now in block capitals. I don't think a peoples vote has any traction ATM I think Mays plan will unravel but we need a  breather. Even if we could magic up a second referendum there is no guarantee you will win and I think there will be massive disorder and even a lurch to the right led by Farage with race hate rampant.

Most importantly of all we need a soft Brexit plan so we can have a binary vote. So its do you want "Plan B" or "Remain in the EU"?

Or are you suggesting a multiple choice???????????

Of course I want us back in the EU ASAP. I honestly think Mays plan is step in the right direction. It will not go far enough.


Lets see what happens when it goes before parliament. If its thrown out what then??????
Report unitedbiscuits November 16, 2018 9:24 PM GMT
Traction? 700,000 marched for a vote. Sky polls a majority for it. Three out of the last four PMs in favour. Eight months ago it wasn't even on the radar.
But we can't put this right after we leave. If the Brexit-faction fool the country for another four months, they'll cement the way back. They're playing for keeps, no scruples.
Report unitedbiscuits November 16, 2018 9:32 PM GMT
It shouldn't be a three choice vote because May's deal is a goner. However, my conviction is that the "firm within a firm" in the Tory Party will let May limp on until March 29th to disguise their real intentions.

So its do you want "Plan B" or "Remain in the EU"?
No, that wouldn't be possible after March 29th..
Report melv November 17, 2018 3:37 AM GMT
So its do you want "Plan B" or "Remain in the EU"?


No, that wouldn't be possible after March 29th..


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????????
Report melv November 17, 2018 3:49 AM GMT
So its do you want "Plan B" or "Remain in the EU"?


No, that wouldn't be possible after March 29th..


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????????


That's news to me. Everyone's been saying nothing is agreed until its all agreed.


To over exaggerate I sometimes think there could be a plan to drag negotiations on for  so long; say ten years; so we all forget whether we are in or out or why we bothered in the first place.

And the hate that dare not speak its name "xenophobia" is characteristic of my generation. And we are dying out so the longer it goes the weaker it gets.
Report unitedbiscuits November 17, 2018 7:13 AM GMT
1)March29 UK leave the EU.
2)March30 UK default on bill.

Remain is not an option after 1) and rejoining in future is not an option after 2)
Report melv November 17, 2018 8:11 AM GMT
[b]1)March29 UK leave the EU.
2)March30 UK default on bill.

Remain is not an option after 1) and rejoining in future is not an option after 2)[/b


If that's true what the heck are the forthcoming 4 years (at least) of intense negotiations all about. We have not even discussed 90% of the details of Brexit never mind agreed them.
Report unitedbiscuits November 17, 2018 8:32 AM GMT
Well that is the stitch up, Melv.
Make no mistake, as things stand, we’re out on March 29.
Report melv November 18, 2018 7:41 AM GMT
I wish some-one else would weigh in on this. It's urgent if true.


People are turning aren't they.


If what you say is urgent we need another march. It would be much bigger and minds would be focused and more would be turned.

Whats the absolute latest Brexit can be stopped or even delayed. More and more people do want it stopped. Its past a joke now.
Report melv November 18, 2018 7:42 AM GMT
Biscuits,

If what you say is true. Its urgent. We need another march.



I'd go this time.
Report unitedbiscuits November 18, 2018 10:02 AM GMT
Excellent, melv.

Meanwhile, more evidence emerges of foreign interference in the 2016 referendum:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/new-evidence-emerges-of-steve-bannon-and-cambridge-analyticas-role-in-brexit

From the NewYorker article:
Cambridge Analytica is largely owned by the U.S. hedge-fund billionaire Robert Mercer. Executives working for Cambridge Analytica, which filed for bankruptcy this spring, have categorically denied that the firm was paid to do any work for the http://Leave.EU  campaign
As if this billionaire needed to send an invoice for the ideologically-motivated work carried out on his behalf.
Report melv November 18, 2018 10:56 AM GMT
Actually Nicole Sturgeon says article 50 can be extended.

But it seems your right. Its is all kicking off isn't. This time its serious. But  Remain is definitely  and defiantly  on the table.

So big pushes are needed; aren't they?. Have a word with Gary please tell him to get the march organised and I'll see you there.
Report unitedbiscuits November 18, 2018 11:05 AM GMT
A50 could be extended but UK has to ask so, not while May is PM.
Report bullraider November 18, 2018 5:58 PM GMT
brexit bill is MUCH bigger than we are being told...fact.
Due to the interest charges arranged by Cameron!
Report SontaranStratagem November 18, 2018 6:44 PM GMT
Its all big one big con from the off

They were never letting the UK leave
Report bullraider November 18, 2018 7:39 PM GMT
I would like to live and work in france, spain or italy myself as some of my family have done.

More recently some have chosen to move to oz.......can you blame them?

The Lord Snooty mob will soon reduce this country to what THEY call the vassal state if it isn't already!

and "there will be no free movement",pandering to the blatent racism which permeates society.

I just wish some people would just watch Rab c. Nesbitt and get educated.
Report bullraider November 18, 2018 7:40 PM GMT
blatant
Report bullraider November 19, 2018 1:41 AM GMT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AtOw-xyMo8

Why am I beginning to think this guy Steve Bannon has a point?
Report melv November 20, 2018 5:38 PM GMT
For the record another landmark in the easiest deal ever made. And you still say you were not lied to and you still say that a decision based on lies can never be changed. And still no Brexiteer on here has ever owned up and admitted he caused this mess.


The DUP have abstained from and voted against some finance bills. Or summat. Its on the news... now.

As I type the Tories do not have a majority.

The DUP are clearly saying. We will vote your divorce proposal down, down down. Unless you change it.


So is that it????? Or will some labour rebels save the Tories and block the chance of a general election. Therefore voting against Labour having a chance of winning an election?

Just when I thought it had all calmed down as  the trouserless but all mouth  WTO loonies were shown to be toothless a well as modelling Y fronts. Now this. The whole world must think we are nutters and you lot think the wordl will fall adoring at our feet if we set sail into WTO world.  National reputation "Nul points". 

WTO where ……...of course no country has gone before. "Chaaaaaaaaarge!!!!!!!!!!!!" The light Brigade strikes twice.
Report melv November 24, 2018 6:46 PM GMT
Have to paste this for the record.


On his phone in; 6 days ago; leaver after leaver admitting they were conned. Most saying they would vote remain in a second vote.

Its quite convincing that its a rolling snowball.

Pebble after pebble dropping and itself looking like a landslide smashing through leave. And whats left? the sunlit uplands of remain.

ALL THESE LEAVERS ADMITTING WE WERE BETTER OFF IN THE EU.

ALL WE NEED IS FOR PARLIAMENT TO TRASH MAYS "DEAL" NEXT WEEK .


( ITS NOT A DEAL ITS TALKS ABOUT MORE TALKS..................................FOREVER.)


If her deal is soundly booted out the Brexit weather is going to change.

AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS. WHEN THE WEATHER CHANGES WE HAVE TO HAVE A SECOND VOTE. THATS DEMOCRACY IN

Have to paste this for the record.

|On James O'Brien's LBC phone in; 6 days ago; leaver after leaver admitting they were conned. Most saying they would vote remain in a second vote.

Its quite convincing that its a rolling snowball.

Pebble after pebble dropping and itself looking like a landslide smashing through leaver. And what left the sunlit upland of remain.

ALL THESE LEAVERS ADMITTING WE WERE BETTER OFF IN THE EU.

ALL WE NEED IS FOR PARLIAMENT TO TRASH MAYS "DEAL" NEXT WEEK .


( ITS NOT A DEAL ITS TALKS ABOUT MORE TALKS..................................FOREVER.)


If her deal is soundly booted out the Brexit weather is going to change.

AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS. WHEN THE WEATHER CHANGES WE HAVE TO HAVE A SECOND VOTE. THATS DEMOCRACY IN ACTION.

Report TheBetterBettor November 24, 2018 6:57 PM GMT
what odds would you give on actual going through with a no deal in march
Report melv November 24, 2018 10:04 PM GMT
A very good question. Is there a market?

You know what I think I would like to bet on there being no deal on March WTO and all that follows.

It would be a nice little insurance policy.


What would be a fair price. Well I simply think its impossible. So it should be massive odds.

However I read an article in the Financial times today about forecasting the future and I say There's been Brexit there's been Trump there's even been Leicester winning the premiership. You do not want to give massive odds.

It wouldn't surprise me if you could only get 10/1.

10/1 says we don't commit national suicide. 10/1 comes in all the time. Fk me interesting times eh?
Report politicspunter November 24, 2018 10:09 PM GMT
The closest I can find is a market on the exchange here...

UK - Brexit - UK to leave the EU by the 29/03/2019?

Yes 1.8 (4/5)
No 2.0 (evens)
Report melv November 24, 2018 10:23 PM GMT
The trouble with that Bet is a micro-cosm of the whole Brexit pantomime. You don't know what you are voting for and you don't know what you are betting on.


There could easily be an extension of article 50. For an election , for a peoples vote, for a change on the weather, for the unseen.


The bet needs to be No deal. WTO. Admin bods running all over the world negotiating deals with every country individually. For all eternity.


The bet would have to be DAY one "We are leaving, out the door gone. Bye bye EU" Hello WTO. How do you price that up.


The biggest irony would be. The absurdity is. Guess what day two is.

BACK ROUND THE TABLE NEGOTATING WITH EUROPE ON WTO TERMS.



Come everybody wake up from your fantasy world. No deal is insane.
Report melv November 24, 2018 10:25 PM GMT
There could easily be an extension of article 50. For an election , for a peoples vote, for a change in the weather, for a flu epidemic,for the unseen.
Report politicspunter November 24, 2018 10:26 PM GMT
Here are the rules on the market I posted earlier...

Event Start Time
29 March 2019, 00:00
Win Only Market
Will the United Kingdom officially leave the European Union before the 29/03/2019 - 23:59:59 CET?

For the purposes of this market leaving the EU is defined as the date when the treaties of the EU cease to apply to the UK. Examples of when this might occur include, but are not limited, to: the date specified in a withdrawal agreement between the UK and the EU; the end of the two year negotiating period (29/03/2019) as set out by Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty (or any extension to this time period); or the date of the repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act. If more than one of these events were to occur, this market will be settled on the first of these events to occur. In the case of the two year time period in Article 50 being extended, via a unanimous vote by all EU Member States, we will settle this market on the extended date. This market will settle when the UK leaves the EU even if parts of the UK (e.g. Scotland, Northern Ireland) leave the UK or receive special status within the EU.
Report melv November 24, 2018 10:37 PM GMT
date when the treaties of the EU cease to apply to the UK.

We have already had Starmers parallel rules floated.

And Isn't May wanting a bespoke UK rule book.

Both intended to duplicate EU rules but not BE EU  rules.


Is that "cease to apply". If so it can mean all kinds of soft Brexit.


I think its very unclear what we are voting for.


Or do you think it applies to certain kinds of soft Brexit as above?
Report melv November 24, 2018 10:39 PM GMT
See what I mean I typed.

I think its very unclear what we are voting for.

When I meant …   I think its very unclear what we are betting on.
Report politicspunter November 24, 2018 10:41 PM GMT
I for one haven't had a single bet on any brexit related market since the referendum itself. It just looks a betting minefield to me.
Report melv November 24, 2018 10:55 PM GMT
I for one haven't had a single bet on any brexit related market since the referendum itself. It just looks a betting minefield to me.



LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

You had me racking my brains for ages there. I now have a migraine.

And 17 million geniuses claim they knew exactly what they were voting for.
Report thegiggilo November 24, 2018 10:57 PM GMT
Shocked
Report melv November 25, 2018 2:51 PM GMT
They think its all over...………………..

You would think so huge pomp circumstance and back slapping in Europe. Its like the closing ceremony of a successful Olympic games.

Just for the record this is where my head is. In my heart I am a lover of Europe.

Who has most to lose.



1. If it gets past. I am a soft Brexiteer and I'm only really against the cliff jump. I'll go with this though I would prefer Norway. I also have best wishes for Remainers. If they can change the political weather then I would jump to their side. Big if. (Moi not much to lose.)


2. Proper Brexiteers. Would you really accept  this. Knowing that There is no way with this that you will  get your * Independent, Rule maker, Own laws". Maybe you would believe May On "End freedom of movement forever" because that's all you care about. Maybe you will accept this and comfort yourself with revenge fantasies if you get stabbed in the back (again). Please note how kokk a hoop the EU is about this result. Tons to lose. But then again you are used to losing out that's why you are hard Brexit.(Losers)

3. I wonder how many "Sick of Brexit" and "Just get on with it". "Don't care what happens anymore" votes there are. Theresa is clearly gambling that this is the true voice of united Britain (To be accurate a united England. The English are clueless about the difference...power..). I think she could have a point. (Winners.)

I think politicians of all stripes could easily be thinking like me and she could get this through. I think there is a good chance she has an accurate grasp of the overall mood. Remain;; you have a lot to do. You have to change the political weather and this  could be your last chance. A much bigger march is needed for a start. I'll march. If it does get through though; Don't worry; I think this close and cuddly relationship with Europe will last a long long long time.
Report melv November 27, 2018 3:07 PM GMT
5 days of debate when those of us who are listening have heard it all too many times before and the general public has stopped listening a long tine ago.

The general public are saying they are "Sick of Brexit" and "Just get on with it" We "Don't care what happens anymore"

The press wants to sell papers to these people. So they are going to reflect and magnify this out cry,

The feedback loop will intensify the " Just get on with it" message until it is deafening.

This will put pressure on every politician who wants to be popular with their constituents.

And Theresa's "Deal". Which is nothing but stale air. IS GETIING ON WITH IT.

For this reason the vote will give Theresa May the biggest victory of her life.

Will it be the hollowest victory of all time?
Report bigpoppapump November 27, 2018 3:23 PM GMT
the fact that Rees-Mogg and his cronies hate the deal so much should mean we all quietly accept it shouldn't it?  It's Remain without the influence of actually Remaining isn't it?  Most Brexit voters believed 'a deal would get done' and they cannot have thought it meant something better than Remaining in, so in a literal sense this is what 'we' voted for. Yes, it's stupid, but it's what 52% voted for.  Let 'em have it in my view.

Laugh

(idiots)
Report cyclops November 28, 2018 9:40 AM GMT
I think the problem with that approach is (alongside the obvious - that we will still be paying into the EU but will have lost our say on how it's run) that nothing will have been settled. There will be years of arguing and prevarication. It will become an endless saga.

While, yes, there are many who trumpet "Just get on with it" May's deal will only mean we gasp over the line, only to find there's miles ahead of us. None of us alive today will ever hear the end of Brexit. That is why her deal should be opposed.
Report n88uk November 28, 2018 12:33 PM GMT
The other issue is the deal on the table is too much of a threat long term to the union to really support, and it doesn't really solve any of the issues.
Report melv December 5, 2018 5:45 PM GMT
Looking ever more like Norway model. I'm even in favour of a government of national unity. With Keir Stammer as our man in Europe.

With Sir Keir well placed to take over from the 73 year old Corbyn and lead us to Victory in the 2022 general election.
Report politicspunter December 5, 2018 6:25 PM GMT
don't think we will have to wait until 2022 for a general election the way things are (not) going.
Report unitedbiscuits December 5, 2018 6:41 PM GMT
When we are young we all imagine we can captain England, be Prime Minister or an astronaut.
When we are 73? Time to say those ships have sailed.
Labour can only gain power with our (remain) support.
Report unitedbiscuits December 5, 2018 6:44 PM GMT
For sure, the pound will dip on a Brexit but not for long - It's 2 1/2 yrs later, but the prediction of Gin will always be on page 1.
Report politicspunter December 5, 2018 6:51 PM GMT
When we brexit, we will find out.
Report unitedbiscuits December 5, 2018 6:53 PM GMT
When we brexit, we will find out.

Like, the exchange rate doesn't apply to me now?
Report politicspunter December 5, 2018 6:57 PM GMT
No idea, we will have to wait and see upon brexit.
Report unitedbiscuits December 5, 2018 7:00 PM GMT
No idea?
Report politicspunter December 5, 2018 7:02 PM GMT
As soon as I can get my flux capacitor fixed on my delorean I will let you know.
Report unitedbiscuits December 5, 2018 7:06 PM GMT
What about the biggest one-day fall of any major currency ever? 24/06/16 in case you ask.
Don't you see how on 24/06/16 forumites whose Betfair banks were in sterling became poorer than their counterparts betting in other currencies, and have never got back on level terms?
politicspunter, don't you know that?
Report politicspunter December 5, 2018 7:09 PM GMT
I am not poorer. I am actually richer as my pension funds have gone up and the value of my villa in Spain has increased.
Report unitedbiscuits December 5, 2018 7:12 PM GMT
Deja vu?
In which case, you are poorer but cannot see/accept the fact. The perfect mark.
Report politicspunter December 5, 2018 7:14 PM GMT
I am not poorer, I am richer.
Report unitedbiscuits December 5, 2018 7:20 PM GMT
No, politcspunter, Brexit has already made you poorer.
Since you mention them, post the value of your Spanish villa, pension, house, salary and savings and I will endeavour to quantify how much the Brexit vote has cost you thus far ..
Report politicspunter December 5, 2018 7:22 PM GMT
You surely can't be serious. Are you going to individually go around everyone in the UK and let them know if they are richer or poorer?
Report unitedbiscuits December 5, 2018 7:25 PM GMT
Only if the individual wants to know, politicspunter..
Report politicspunter December 5, 2018 7:26 PM GMT
Well, you don't need to worry about me, I am richer.
Report unitedbiscuits December 5, 2018 7:28 PM GMT
Again, doubt it..
Willing to look into it.
Report politicspunter December 5, 2018 7:30 PM GMT
I started my own business from scratch. I sold it and retired. I have no debt and am secure for life and you are trying to tell me whether I am richer or poorer?
Report unitedbiscuits December 5, 2018 7:33 PM GMT
Yes, if you want to know ..but I need a few details (only as requested) and I'll tell you how much Brexit has cost you already.
Report politicspunter December 5, 2018 7:34 PM GMT
You are nuts.
Report unitedbiscuits December 5, 2018 7:35 PM GMT
Drums fingers..
Report melv December 6, 2018 5:57 PM GMT
What a surprise.

BREXIT STARTS ON APRIL FOOLS DAY.


So thats why the whole sad sick charade has been Fred Karnos circus from day one. I cannot bring myself to analyse what they are saying now. Ita just so daft. After telling us you will be surprised the whole country loves courageous Theresa everyone will support her in the vote.. Now they are saying "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO looks like we are going to lose the vote by a massive margin.

SO LETS CANCEL THE VOTE.


Since day one its got madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madderSince day one its got madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and Since day one its got madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and Since day one its got madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madderSince day one its got madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and Since day one its got madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and maddermadderSince day one its got madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madderSince day one its got madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and Since day one its got madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and madder madder and madder and madder and



madder and madder and madder and madder



And of course you  lot knew you were voting for this. Good...…. lets hear you taking responsibility for it.


I now await the straw man attacks on me. But my dears I voted against leaving.
Report melv December 10, 2018 4:09 PM GMT
It seems that it is ideed  going to get madder day by day.

All day Yesterday and all this morning MP's were swearing " Let me be clear the vote is going ahead tomorrow"


So now its official the vote is cancelled.

I think its also official that you would be very unwise to believe a single thing this government says.
Report melv December 10, 2018 4:13 PM GMT
So now its official the vote is cancelled.

I think its also official that you would be very unwise to believe a single thing this government says.


And of course  you  lot have sworn all along that you knew exactly and precisely  what you were doing when you voted for this. Good...…. lets hear you taking responsibility for it.
Report melv December 10, 2018 4:16 PM GMT
Pound collapsing. FTSE collapsing.



Just to add a little more madness to the mix.
Report melv December 12, 2018 5:46 AM GMT
Just for the record.


The 48 letters are in. The 1922 committee meets today. There will be a vote of confidence  and May will lose. Article 50 will be suspended.

I do not want an election I want a referendum.

Nobody knew it would be like this when they voted. True democracy depends on the voters being fully informed. Lets have a vote now everything is known.

LEAVE ARE BANG OUT OF ORDER FOR  3 REASONS.

(1) IT IS ANTI-DEMOCRATIC TO SAY THE ELECTORATE CANNOT VOTE AS MANY TIMES AS THEY LIKE.

(2) THE REASON BREXIT IS SO HYSTERICALLY AGAINST ANOTHER REFERENDUM IS BECAUSE IT KNOWS IT WILL LOSE. BREXIT IS TOTALLY UNDEMOCRATC BECAUSE IT WANTS TO DENY THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

(2) THREATS OF PUBLIC DISORDER IF THERE IS A DEMOCRATIC VOTE ARE ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY TRUE DEMOCRAT DEMAND A PUBLIC VOTE ....NOW.
Report melv December 12, 2018 2:11 PM GMT
Sorry I need to document this. So I end up with a historic blog.


oooooooooooooooooooooops. Looks like I shot my bolt. Been watching TV Tory politicians very convincing swearing that May will win a confidence vote. May seems to be relishing this.


So May wins apparently. It looks like the ERG and all the other swivel eyed cliff jumpers have fallen into a trap. When May wins she cannot be challenged again until almost 2020.Suddenly it all makes sense. Brilliant tactics apparently. Looks like the last few weeks have been a genius exercise in policies chess. The ERG have been forked and for them its checkmate. And checkout time.


I'm very happy because this totally torpedo's "no deal"

Very interested to see how many Tories will show "No confidence" in their leader. At least we will know precisely how divided the Tories are. Fascinating.

Anyway I certainly did not want a general election yet.
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