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wisewords
26 May 18 00:23
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Date Joined: 14 Aug 11
| Topic/replies: 441,936 | Blogger: wisewords's blog
Main card

Welterweight     Stephen Thompson     vs.     Darren Till                
Welterweight     Neil Magny     vs.     Craig White                
Featherweight     Arnold Allen     vs.     Mads Burnell                
Featherweight     Jason Knight     vs.     Makwan Amirkhani                
Welterweight     Cláudio Silva     vs.     Nordine Taleb                
Middleweight     Eric Spicely     vs.     Darren Stewart

           
Preliminary card (Fox Sports 1)

Middleweight     Dan Kelly     vs.     Tom Breese                
Welterweight     Brad Scott     vs.     Carlo Pedersoli Jr.                
Women's Bantamweight     Gina Mazany     vs.     Lina Länsberg                
Women's Flyweight     Gillian Robertson     vs.     Molly McCann


Looking forward to this one!
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Report Topboys May 26, 2018 2:29 PM BST
Till missing weight. Begged for UFC in Liverpool. Begged for a top opponent. Gets his wishes and then misses weight fr 3.5lb. Very very amateurish IMO
Report wisewords May 26, 2018 9:18 PM BST
I still can't believe he missed weight. He's lucky the fight is still going ahead.
Report Topboys May 27, 2018 1:27 PM BST
Read somewhere fighters who have missed the cut but still been able to fight this year have a 6-0 record. Just seems so unfair. If Thompson loses this know Till will have Thompson on his record. People will forget about the weight cut. Thompson now is fighting someone who will be a weight class above him when rehydrated. Till will lose 30% of his cut but in the long run this won't effect him one bit at all if he gets Thompson on his record.

Just seems unfair.
Report Topboys May 27, 2018 1:27 PM BST
Tried to get tickets for this and it was virtually impossible as well
Report razz May 27, 2018 2:22 PM BST
till getting a slice of kama after bragging about how big he is compared to the other welterweights, also he was eating cake and drinking coke a couple weeks ago. said he would "definitely" make weight the day before. his wife had to go to hospital while pregnant which could of hampered his cut but i dont buy it.
Report razz May 27, 2018 2:24 PM BST

May 27, 2018 -- 1:27PM, Topboys wrote:


Read somewhere fighters who have missed the cut but still been able to fight this year have a 6-0 record. Just seems so unfair. If Thompson loses this know Till will have Thompson on his record. People will forget about the weight cut. Thompson now is fighting someone who will be a weight class above him when rehydrated. Till will lose 30% of his cut but in the long run this won't effect him one bit at all if he gets Thompson on his record.Just seems unfair.


yep that's right, but I think all of those fighters basically gave up cutting as they knew they weren't going to make it, so stopped their cut to get an advantage. till looked really bad the day before the weigh ins and has just had to cut weight and weigh in a 2nd time in 2 days which is TERRIBLE for your body. he just weighed 188lbs an hour or 2 ago, so couldn't fully hydrate after the failed cut yesterday.

Report Topboys May 27, 2018 2:50 PM BST
I was going to back Thompson yesterday @ 2.2 but thought I'd wait until today to see if there was a price shift from the Scousers backing Till. Because of what has happened Thompson is now @ 1.7 so missed the boat
Report razz May 27, 2018 3:27 PM BST
i think WB shortening was before the weigh ins, could of been leaked that till was having a tough cut, or could of been a bounce from till shortening so much from 2.5 a few days back.
Report razz May 27, 2018 4:31 PM BST
lol, molly mccann choked unconscious, twitching like a fish in front of her home crowd, pretty embarrassing after missing weight.
Report razz May 27, 2018 8:15 PM BST
**** you arnold allen, ruined my event with that comeback. 7 unit swing on that fight..
Report wisewords May 27, 2018 8:28 PM BST
Scared razz
Report wisewords May 27, 2018 8:29 PM BST
main event time!
Report razz May 27, 2018 8:45 PM BST
was up over 3u, so could of been worse
Report wisewords May 27, 2018 9:07 PM BST
THE GORILLA!
Report razz May 28, 2018 12:37 AM BST
not the best fight, but interesting. both looked good i thought, was starting to nod off but i had wonderboy winning, but obviously the crowd edged some of the judges i think.
Report razz May 28, 2018 12:38 AM BST
worst event of the year for me. 4u loss in total. still a good year so far though.
Report Topboys May 28, 2018 12:53 AM BST
Didn't see the fight but just seens Tills post fight press conference.

"**** all the doubters"

Nah. Maybe make weight and the doubters wouldn't have been doubters.


Like I said. Him missing weight will all be forgotten about on the promotion train. Pisses me off
Report wisewords May 28, 2018 7:53 PM BST
UFC were never going to give Wonderboy the decision in a close fight, with Till fighting and home and drawing such a big turnout and generating such a hyped atmosphere
Report wisewords May 28, 2018 7:53 PM BST
fighting at home*
Report wisewords May 28, 2018 7:55 PM BST
Wonderboy would have had to scored at least 2 knockdowns, or choked him out. Wonderboy gave the impression of being on the defensive for 5 rounds. I know he was countering, but the fight wasn't on neutral ground. Wonderboy had to make it clear he won to get the nod, and he didn't do that. It also doesn't help him that his fights against Woodley were terrible so the UFC don't want him at #1 because they clearly don't want to put on Woodley v Wonderboy 3
Report Topboys May 28, 2018 9:00 PM BST
Peoples reviews of the fight was that it was basically a sparring session. Too many fist bumps after rounds etc. Agree with the Thompson review. I like Thompson as a fighter but away from home you can't afford to be defensive/standing off like you said. Got to show some intiative
Report razz May 28, 2018 9:18 PM BST
dana won't let him stay at ww if he misses again, I imagine he will get one more chance at ww, it is possible he would of made it if his wife wasnt rushed into hospital during the cut and then all of this bad press towards him wouldn't exist. regardless he won't be able to stay at ww for many more years, he'll have to move up eventually anyway as he grows more.
Report razz May 28, 2018 9:39 PM BST

May 28, 2018 -- 7:53PM, wisewords wrote:


UFC were never going to give Wonderboy the decision in a close fight, with Till fighting and home and drawing such a big turnout and generating such a hyped atmosphere


ufc?

Report razz May 28, 2018 9:41 PM BST
wasn't just wonderboy who was defensive, it's a chess match, till is normally much more aggressive and really the onus was on him to be more aggressive in front of his home crowd.
Report wisewords May 28, 2018 11:49 PM BST

May 28, 2018 -- 9:39PM, razz wrote:


May 28, 2018 --  7:53PM, wisewords wrote:UFC were never going to give Wonderboy the decision in a close fight, with Till fighting and home and drawing such a big turnout and generating such a hyped atmosphereufc?


you don't think the UFC control the judges?

Report wisewords May 28, 2018 11:51 PM BST
why do you think we get so many hometown judging decisions? it's in the UFC's interest that the hometown fans go home happy and therefore very likely to attend next time there's an event in that location
Report wisewords May 28, 2018 11:51 PM BST
we see it alot in Brazil also. it's just the way things work
Report razz May 29, 2018 2:15 AM BST
lol, ufc have no control of the udges, they are very outspoken of the athletic commissions that employ a lot of these judges. the reason a lot of hometown guys get decisions is simply that a huge % of judges are unfit for the job. many have no mma training experience, limited to NO training in many of the martial arts that make up mma, and are easilly influenced by fans cheering for hometown fighters like till. also judges often put a lot of emphasis on aspects of scoring that aren't as important as others that are ignored. e.g till moving forward and thompson landing the better shots throughout most of the fight, but just because he's a counter fighter fighting away from home against a much bigger guy he get's penalized.
Report razz May 29, 2018 2:18 AM BST
then you add in the different rule-sets for many events, the old rules are still employed in many events but we see a definite change that follows the new rules more at times. add in possible corruption like boxing where they are happy to give a round away to the other guy just because he tried hard ( or because points handicaps are much more under the radar than the outright decision.) judges are a mess. makes sense imo to have 5 judges instead of 3, that alone would eliminate some awful decisions we see.
Report razz May 29, 2018 2:22 AM BST
it's in their best interest to see hometown fighters win, but in the case of Brazil we see several events recently where a lot of the big Brazilian names get wrecked, partially due to the matchmaking not the judges. Brazil are in a slump with top contenders right now, look a few years ago most of the champs were Brazilian, then usada was implemented then poof none. nunes only Brazilian champ right now.
Report wisewords May 29, 2018 2:36 AM BST
I'll keep backing the home fighters when they're in close fights and collecting. I know how things work, just like with boxing. it's very profitable
Report wisewords May 29, 2018 2:37 AM BST
I don't even know why you're trying to argue against it. just back the home fighter before the annoncement is made. Till was 1.6 on Saturday
Report wisewords May 29, 2018 2:43 AM BST
and I'm not suggesting the fights are fixed. if Wonderboy had beaten up Till on Saturday, knocked him down a couple of times, made him retreat, taken him down etc, Wonderboy would have got the decision. but with Wonderboy fighting away from home, doing his counter fighter fighting and running away isn't going to cut it, especially against a young unbeaten lion with lots of hype, fighting in his home town in an arena that's been filled because of the hype surrounding Till, with all the fans crazily supporting Till. it's just the way it is, razz. giving Wonderboy the decision would kill the buzz around the unbeaten prospect, kill the buzz in the arena and ultimately be bad for the UFC
Report razz June 1, 2018 1:39 AM BST
I'm not arguing against backing hometown fighters, I acknowledged that they often get favorable decisions. I'm saying the UFC have no control over the judges. they are a completely separate entity from the ufc, and there's many reasons why they score fights wrong. in a fight like that you have to take into consideration that the judges incompetence can result in wildly volatile scorecards. However I would of backed till a lot heavier live if i was more awake and had better internet.

do you mean till was 1.6 in the fight? he was 2.4 ish befoe the fight started and like 1.4 closing iirc.

wonderboy's gameplan was negated a lot by till's very conservative gameplan that is very different to how he usually fights he fought exactly how your criticizing WB. It's irrelevant if it's good for the ufc or not, fights should be scored on merit, I know they won't be but they should, hometown fighters losing isn't as big of a deal as made out to be, look at Brazil as a perfect example, ufc's 2nd biggest market and they  sellout every event with the arena full from the 1st prelim despite the recent trend of many high profile Brazilians getting finished or losing.
Report wisewords June 1, 2018 7:41 PM BST
I acknowledged that they often get favorable decisions. I'm saying the UFC have no control over the judges.

remarkable how often the home fighter gets the decision, which is good for the UFC. I think you need to think about this a bit more. UFC definitely have influence over the judges, albeit indirectly.
Report wisewords June 1, 2018 7:43 PM BST
I meant Till was 1.5-1.61 range to back after the 5th round was finished, before the verdict was read out. I backed him twice; prefight and after the 5th round had ended.
Report wisewords June 1, 2018 7:45 PM BST
wonderboy's gameplan was negated a lot by till's very conservative gameplan that is very different to how he usually fights he fought exactly how your criticizing WB.

very true, I take your point. but then put WB on his arse in the 5th
Report wisewords June 1, 2018 7:51 PM BST
It's irrelevant if it's good for the ufc or not, fights should be scored on merit
Report wisewords June 1, 2018 7:52 PM BST
I'm not beetting on "should". I'm betting on how things are. take your blinkers off. do you want to make profit or not?
Report wisewords June 1, 2018 7:53 PM BST
hometown fighters losing isn't as big of a deal as made out to be

I agree, but unbeaten ones with big hype surrounding them, different rules apply.
Report razz June 2, 2018 11:08 PM BST

Jun 1, 2018 -- 7:41PM, wisewords wrote:


I acknowledged that they often get favorable decisions. I'm saying the UFC have no control over the judges.remarkable how often the home fighter gets the decision, which is good for the UFC. I think you need to think about this a bit more. UFC definitely have influence over the judges, albeit indirectly.


how so? from the crowd where they host the event? that's pretty indirect lol. but they can't directly influence the judges, they would be banned from the state if found out, it wouldn't make business sense.

Report razz June 2, 2018 11:14 PM BST
yeah I think he was like 1.9 before the knockdown also, good value in hindsight. I don't have blinkers on when it comes to betting lol, i make enough profit on mma as it is, personally though i would just like to see fights be scored more objectively and with more judges who are trained much better. I still don't think till is that much of a superstar outside of liverpool tbh. I think he could struggle if he moves up to MW which it looks like he might have to earlier in his career than he wants to. I doubt he can make 170 more than a couple more times.  and with gastelum, romero, whittaker, adesanya, costa, weidman, jacare and the like he would have a tough time getting to the title without maybe getting the WW title first.
Report wisewords June 2, 2018 11:23 PM BST

Jun 2, 2018 -- 11:08PM, razz wrote:


Jun  1, 2018 --  7:41PM, wisewords wrote:I acknowledged that they often get favorable decisions. I'm saying the UFC have no control over the judges.remarkable how often the home fighter gets the decision, which is good for the UFC. I think you need to think about this a bit more. UFC definitely have influence over the judges, albeit indirectly.how so? from the crowd where they host the event? that's pretty indirect lol. but they can't directly influence the judges, they would be banned from the state if found out, it wouldn't make business sense.


these dodgy decisions seem to happen on international cards alot. no idea where the judges came from for the event in Liverpool. I think the judges are instructed that if it's a close fight this is who they should favour.

Report razz June 5, 2018 12:50 AM BST
they happen everywhere though, a lot of the judges travel internationally too. and there's zero evidence that judges are instructed by anyone to favor the hometown guy, they are more than capable of ****g up and being biassed toward the crowd as it is without the giant risk of instructing them to judge a certain way. it would of been leaked by at this point. some judges are actually good and are former fighters and ref's, and have many years experience training mma, someone would of found out by now if that happened.
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