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thesportinglife
06 Jun 18 20:11
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Date Joined: 07 May 10
| Topic/replies: 12,141 | Blogger: thesportinglife's blog
What`s happened to the 3 places market on here with less than 8 runners ?
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Report the.mad.dog.man June 7, 2018 12:51 PM BST
betfair put the markets up for a vs b and they put them up late as possable now a lot of markets betfair put them up
Report portmanpark June 7, 2018 1:10 PM BST
They used to have them under the horse racing market where you could access them all together.Thats gone and they will go all together soon.
Report portmanpark June 7, 2018 1:12 PM BST
Its a really mystery why other exchanges are not challenging betfair supremacy because this lot don't care about their customers.
Report madhatter June 7, 2018 5:25 PM BST
So, tonight, rightly or wrongly, I would be betting Tennessee Wildcat (7.25 Leop) and Cimeara (7.55 Leop) to three places.
Now I can't.
Therefore betfair will lose commission on about £60 that I won't now bet.
Where do they see logic in that????
Idiots.
Report Lee Ho Fooks June 7, 2018 5:50 PM BST
But what if they both won? Silly
Report MasterPapa June 7, 2018 7:09 PM BST
I am also a regular player on the 3 place market in 6 and 7 runner races,and am surprised to see this market no longer
available.I back a lot of bigger priced horses and this market is useful to me.However i also place a bet in the win market
which will be money lost to betfair now as i will be unlikely to bet in most races with 6 or 7 runners.I hope betfair reconsider this decision,but will not hold my breath.
Report Lee Ho Fooks June 7, 2018 7:28 PM BST
Strange that they have retained the 2 3 AND 4 place market on 8 runner races. How does that not dilute liquidity too?
Report MasterPapa June 7, 2018 7:45 PM BST
The 3 place market is also still available on the us horseracing.I saw an early race from Delaware yesterday with only 6 runners and the option of a 2 place or 3 place market with only a little over £700 matched on the 3 place market. I feel sure
most 3 place markets in the uk on these races attracted more than this.
Report the.mad.dog.man June 7, 2018 8:40 PM BST
stoped the match betting on rpgtv dogs tonight im going to betdag with some of my bets
Report Grok June 7, 2018 10:38 PM BST
    Donc 28th Apr        18:15        win        BSP        Avg        plc        BSp PLC        Avg PLC   
    Eddiethebung                0        1000.00        966.31        0        13.98        66.57   
    Gibeno                0        1000.00        958.05        1        17.26        61.87   


Maybe we won't see these types of place BSP being returned from now on. Shocked
Report aec June 7, 2018 11:18 PM BST
mister papa   spot on.
Report aec June 7, 2018 11:19 PM BST
master...sorry!
Report dave1357 June 8, 2018 8:46 AM BST
re US racing I think betfair tries to follow the betting terms available in the country of the race - in the US this is win, place and show ie win, two places, three places.
Report mouse muldoon June 8, 2018 10:23 AM BST
And another thing, why can't the US TBPs go in play?
Report The Cheek June 8, 2018 3:24 PM BST
So a race declared with 8 runners that has one non runner (today's Wolverhampton 16.50 for example) still has 2 additional place markets but a 7 runner race elsewhere has none!

Ridiculous.
Report sparrow June 8, 2018 5:40 PM BST
I have just rung in to complain and I trust all other posters have done the same.
Report sparrow June 8, 2018 11:05 PM BST
Update email from betfair who simply do not understand what we are talking about despite me spelling it out to them over the phone.



Thanks for getting in touch.

I am contacting you in relation to the 3 place markets on our site.

I had a look into this for you xxxx and even though there isn't a specific market called 3 place market, this can usually still be found in the place market.

Below is an example of the markets being offered on one of the Newmarket races tomorrow.



As you can see there isn't a 3 place market, however, if you click on the rules button for the place market you would be able to see how much places this is paying out. In this case this market is paying out at 3 places, as can be seen below.






I do apologise for any inconveniences that this may have caused you.

Thanks,

Julian

Betfair Customer Service Management
Report mouse muldoon June 8, 2018 11:06 PM BST
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                   |   /   /    / *`   \                                )    )¯`~,                     
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Report dave1357 June 8, 2018 11:11 PM BST
I had a look into this for you xxxx

giving you kisses a bit familiar imo
Report sparrow June 8, 2018 11:13 PM BST
Indeed mouse. I shall ring again in the morning and insist they speak to someone who is actively involved in the market listings.
Report sparrow June 8, 2018 11:14 PM BST
Trust you to seize on that, dave. Plain
Report bettinghelp June 8, 2018 11:29 PM BST
"As you can see there isn't a 3 place market, however, if you click on the rules button for the place market you would be able to see how much places this is paying out."

One failure to understand what the emailer has actually asked, one failure to understand the fundamental issue, and three grammatical errors, all neatly packaged into one almost incomprehensible sentence.

Welcome to the world of the 21st century millennial. Crazy
Report GLASGOWCALLING June 8, 2018 11:59 PM BST
you done well bettinghelp, i have read it twice now and its still not making an ounce of sense. !   Laugh
Report sparrow June 9, 2018 6:25 AM BST
The fool was talking to me about how to negotiate a market I have been using for the past 15 years or more.
Report The Cheek June 9, 2018 10:09 AM BST
The laughable response to sparrow's query is sadly typical of Betfair's customer services these days, they seem to be unable to grasp even the simplest issue.

I've got in touch with someone more senior there but am still awaiting a response....
Report devilsadvocate June 9, 2018 10:32 AM BST
The complete inanity of the CS response is so typical. I would like to add my support for the return of some of the place markets but find dealing with Betfair CS quite depressing. For weeks I (and others )
were on to them about the 'wrong headers' issue and their lack of an effective response really go to me. I have reduced my BF turnover by some 70 %. I want to enjoy my gambling in my retirement  but find
steering clear of BF CS is good for my sanity !
Report The Cheek June 9, 2018 11:08 AM BST
Try tweeting @BetfairRacing and @Betfair Exchange
Report mouse muldoon June 9, 2018 11:09 AM BST
If you tweet them you'll just get another birdbrain.
Report sparrow June 9, 2018 11:25 AM BST
Just called them again and they said someone from the "trading team" would contact me.
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 5:03 PM BST
ttt
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 5:12 PM BST
I want to bet a long priced horse to three places in the 7 runner 6.40 Southwell tonight but can't so that's another race they wont be getting my money invested in. Yet they offer 5 places on the 16 runner event at 7.10.
To make it even more stupid, they offer 4 places on the 7.00 Roscommon, which was due to have just eight runners and now has only seven.
I don't know how their logic works but I doubt they do either!
Report sparrow June 12, 2018 5:15 PM BST
I have given up with trying to explain this to them. The present staff seem to have very little knowledge of how the exchange operates. Just another 2 bob bookmaker these days.
Report DirkDiggler June 12, 2018 5:18 PM BST
"As you can see there isn't a 3 place market, however, if you click on the rules button for the place market you would be able to see how much places this is paying out."


F**k me!!!


Laugh
Report sparrow June 12, 2018 5:24 PM BST
Precisely, Dirkdiggler.
I rest my case Sad
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 5:36 PM BST
the purple one appears to have these markets....do they give you live pictures from all courses that you may have bet at?
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 5:37 PM BST
I have a purple account but haven't used it for so long that i'm not even sure if i can remember/find my password!
Report Deltâ June 12, 2018 5:39 PM BST
if you havent used it for ages madhatter  - you need to reopen an a/c
Report DirkDiggler June 12, 2018 5:40 PM BST
if you havent used it for ages madhatter  - you need to reopen an a/c


Yep, I had to.
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 6:08 PM BST
Found login name and password and done!
Didn't need to start a new one, just replenish my oneExcited
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 6:19 PM BST
But bet B D Mottes there to 2 places on Betfair 'cos hadn't got Purple organised in time so it worked out better odds (although I would have bet more money if the three place market still existed)...swings and roundabouts.
The 6.40 horse is Foundation Man should anyone really care.
Off to purple one to bet that one
Report aec June 12, 2018 6:23 PM BST
I got in touch with them as well and had a similar response at first. Then the chap came back and said it was a trading decision based on low liquidity. I responded by saying that this was their USP (excepting Purple) but he was unable to grasp that. Anyway, thanks to everyone for keeping up the pressure. If no change by next week I'm opening another account on Purple. Liquidity is low and margin is higher (though it does reduce very close to the off) there but I rarely put much on since my betting is like Madhatter...small punts on outsiders and I only back to get my win £ back anyway. We shall see.
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 6:28 PM BST
But as someone said earlier, any liquidity at all is still money in betfair's coffers so why stop them (unless it costs more in someones time to set them up than the commission they make from it)
Report aec June 12, 2018 6:32 PM BST
completely agree. the marginal cost to have that market must be infinitesimal. Madness.
Report pablo-fanque June 12, 2018 6:49 PM BST
any liquidity at all is still money in betfair's coffers so why stop them

if betfair made more from commission with the 3TBP+ markets than without them, they would have kept them that's for sure . 

with more than 1 place betting market offering in operation , they dilute eachother, which in turn puts people off betting/trading in them as there can be big gaps in the prices , so poor value for betting, so no one wins long term.
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 6:51 PM BST
And herein is the purple problem. Just £1,307 bet in the 3 place market and my bet was (fortunately as it turned out) unmatched.
We had a hot fav that was always likely to be placed so, had I bet the two place market on betfair, then in my mind i am betting Foundation Man to beat all the other five runners i.e. no leeway whatsoever, which is what you get when the extra place market is available.
Shame there is no-one at betfair that would understand a word of what i've written here.
I despair of them.
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 7:01 PM BST
Still, now I can have a proper bet on Canardier to finish first four at 1.30 in 7.00 Rosc.
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 7:06 PM BST
29.55% interest in 5 mins....you don't get that in abank!
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 7:11 PM BST
Chantecler, first five @ 2.52
Report Lee Ho Fooks June 12, 2018 7:16 PM BST
madhatter

And herein is the purple problem

Although it may be BF's problem one day if they are driving people away (admittedly a small number at the moment) to find markets which have been removed from here. May have a knock on effect of raising purple's liquidity to the point where some people may accept reduced odds if the gap is seen to be closing etc
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 7:17 PM BST
Although a bank is much better than that result!Blush
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 7:26 PM BST
LHF,
Why do you think it is that purple haven't seemingly made inroads into betfairs market share?
I struggle to see why they dont grow. If Ladbrokes really wanted an exchange then you'd think they would do more to promote it to the betting public.
I still think betfairs site is more easy to follow and easier on the eye but of course that is also because that is the one we are used to navigating every day.
Report sparrow June 12, 2018 7:28 PM BST
The place markets have suffered some dilution but Betfair have removed the wrong extra market and it should have been the extra 2 place market. Unfortunately when contacting Betfair you are unable to speak to the people who understand the situation.
Report Lee Ho Fooks June 12, 2018 7:39 PM BST
I don't think they have made inroads MH, just saying that BF are doing themselves no favours in encouraging people to consider other providers.
Report sparrow June 12, 2018 7:42 PM BST
Neither betfair or Ladbrokes are going to promote their exchanges when they make far more profit on the bookmaking side. Why on earth would they?
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 7:43 PM BST
Agreed. But you'd think that, with all their strength and all that investment in purchasing their own exchange, Ladbrokes would be trying very hard to get the gamblers onto purple.
But I see no evidence of that being the case.
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 7:46 PM BST
That was agreed with LHF.
Sparrow - one assumes Laddies bought purple to compete with betfair, unwise why waste 30 million euros on something you dont push forward with.
Report Lee Ho Fooks June 12, 2018 7:46 PM BST
Both - but what if something none of us would consider happening happened eg another exchange entering and competing with the big 2?
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 7:47 PM BST
...otherwise...
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 7:54 PM BST
https://egr.global/intel/insight/disrupting-the-status-quo-is-betfairs-excha...
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 7:58 PM BST
smarkets 10%, matchbook 5%, purple 5%, betfair most of the rest.
That tells me purple havent grown in terms of market share for the last 5 years
Report sparrow June 12, 2018 8:01 PM BST
I would have thought young people would have taken to the exchanges with them being more used to handling the technology. But it seems they are little different to their parents and grandparents when it comes to preferring bookmakers to the exchanges.
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 8:03 PM BST
i am pushing 60 and haven't had a bet with a bookie since i joined betfair in Jan 2003 GrinGrinGrin
Report sparrow June 12, 2018 8:14 PM BST
I can give you 11 years madhatter and I don't bet with bookmakers either. Crazy when you think about it as we are supposed to be the "old stick in the muds"
Report sparrow June 12, 2018 8:18 PM BST
A classic example is the old traditional bookmaker each way bet where you have to have equal stakes rather than say 25% win and 75% place.
Report madhatter June 12, 2018 8:27 PM BST
Agreed Sparrow. I tend bet one, sometimes two or occasionally three horses place only and find having a variety of place markets is often very helpful for this.
Report sparrow June 14, 2018 1:31 PM BST
I have just received the following email from Betfair.


Thanks for getting in touch.

After checking with our Exchange team, we can confirm that due to a business decision we have removed certain extra place markets from our Exchange. This is part of the ongoing rationalisation project, which essentially seeks to focus liquidity on our markets thus ensuring an optimal betting customer experience overall. As of Monday 4th June the below changes have come into effect.

• No 3TBP markets for GB/IRE races with 7 runners or less
• No place market (TBP) at all for GB/IRE races with 3 runners

I have attached a handy tab;le which clarified which markets are going to remain and which will be removed for your clarification.

I have also passed on your feedback from our end regarding the change in question.

Apologies if this is not the answer you wished to hear.

Should you still wish a callback regarding the above kindly reply with a suitable time frame for the next 72hours so that we can get that set up for you.

Thanks,
Report JetLoneStar June 14, 2018 1:37 PM BST
Extremely irritating, 7 runners races now become a no-bet for me, less money for me and less commission for betfair :/
Report pablo-fanque June 14, 2018 1:41 PM BST
we can confirm that due to a business decision we have removed certain extra place markets from our Exchange. This is part of the ongoing rationalisation project, which essentially seeks to focus liquidity on our markets thus ensuring an optimal betting customer experience overall

great betfair , now try taking a look at re-structuring the Premium Charge to see if you can improve liquidity in the horse racing markets

cheers
Report sparrow June 14, 2018 1:42 PM BST
People need to call betfair and complain as they clearly believe there is no demand from punters for these markets
Report the.mad.dog.man June 14, 2018 1:46 PM BST
betfair were puting the prices up for 3 places in 5 6 7 runners and did there money
Report sparrow June 14, 2018 1:48 PM BST
maddogman..........Are you talking about the Betfair bots?
Report dave1357 June 14, 2018 1:49 PM BST
If they were liquid markets I doubt that they would be axed.

imo the place markets should be restricted to the standard place terms and one less than standard terms.
Report Wicklow June 14, 2018 1:49 PM BST
same here jetlonestar - Ive spent alot of races this week out in the garden water the flowers.
Report sparrow June 14, 2018 1:52 PM BST
Dave,  they have withdrawn the wrong extra market as it should have been the extra 2 place market.
Many of us used the extra 3 place markets even if you didn't.
Report mouse muldoon June 14, 2018 1:56 PM BST
The books will often offer an extra place in big races to attract more custom, while betfair exchange seem to be of the opinion that offering one place less than the normal terms is more appealing. Which is right?
Report sparrow June 14, 2018 1:57 PM BST
Dave thinks one less place is better. Cry
Report MasterPapa June 14, 2018 3:10 PM BST
I too have left the 5 6 7 runner races alone since the introduction of this.Three 7 runner races at uttoxeter tonight, again
unless fancy something strongly at the front of the market I will leave the race alone.
Betfair talk about improving liquidity in other markets on these races,but I am certainly not going to start betting in the 2
place market in these races.If anything it will cost them money in the win market as when having a bet in a 5 6 or 7runner
race I would place a smaller bet in the win market as well, just in case. I think others must do the same,wonder if betfair
have considered this.
Report sparrow June 14, 2018 3:13 PM BST
I would like to see the figures differential between extra 2 place and extra 3 place markets Betfair presumably based this decision on.
Report dave1357 June 14, 2018 3:21 PM BST
I only ever play the standard place market, so I really would rather that was the only one tbh.
Report sparrow June 14, 2018 3:25 PM BST
Dave,  as long as you're satisfied that's all that matters then.
Report dave1357 June 14, 2018 3:29 PM BST
p2p
Report JetLoneStar June 14, 2018 3:30 PM BST
I only play the place markets so if Betfair could remove the win markets and send more liquidity my way that would be great, ta Laugh
Report mouse muldoon June 14, 2018 3:33 PM BST
Get rid of all the Irish please.
Report mouse muldoon June 14, 2018 3:34 PM BST
Except group 1s
Report sparrow June 14, 2018 3:38 PM BST
Indeed Jetlonestar, what a good idea. Laugh
Report aec June 14, 2018 3:41 PM BST
thanks Sparrow. Just about to open an account with purple. I'll tell BF that I am and why. It will make no difference of course.
Report sparrow June 14, 2018 3:44 PM BST
It will certainly make no difference just talking about it on here but we should all let them know our feelings on this decision.
Report JetLoneStar June 21, 2018 4:08 PM BST
Obscene amount of 6/7 runner races over the weekend, very upsetting - would easily turnover 2k+ if the 3TBP markets were still there...yes im extremely bitter Cry
Report Wicklow June 21, 2018 4:45 PM BST
I got this reponse from the account manager this morning after I asked for an update on the situation.

This is still ongoing. The issue my team have is we are defending our customers who are the ones who benefit most from the markets. Exchange ops argue that the overall exchange customer proposition is more important long term than short term revenue.



As you know I am not convinced that this justifies removing markets which clearly we will be getting revenue from and Premium customers such as yourself will be earning from, especially when racing is in decline.



I need to be able to look at market data on this because I think that will paint the clearest picture on the impact. The anecdotal evidence we have definitely has been heard. I am going to have this data collated now we have a good few weeks since the change.



Exchange ops have removed markets from lots of sports but this is the first time they have come across issues but clearly, the way this was done with little warning to us and therefore our customers is not acceptable so will be addressed in future.



It is very frustrating from my point of view.
Report pablo-fanque June 21, 2018 5:13 PM BST
As you know I am not convinced that this justifies removing markets which clearly we will be getting revenue from and Premium customers such as yourself will be earning from, especially when racing is in decline.

at least they acknowledge that racing is in decline .
Report longbridge June 21, 2018 5:29 PM BST
@pablo "at least they acknowledge that racing is in decline"

That's an industry-wide truism isn't it?
Report pablo-fanque June 21, 2018 5:31 PM BST
yes
Report mouse muldoon June 21, 2018 5:32 PM BST
So they've figured out it's in decline. Now all they need is a committee to sit down for a couple of years and try to work out why.
Report pablo-fanque June 21, 2018 5:34 PM BST
longbridge , i dont have facts or figures ( levy raised etc ) for the industry as a whole, but i think horse racing markets on here are declining
Report dave1357 June 21, 2018 5:47 PM BST
If a market is particularly profitable for a subset of customers, it must be very bad for other customers.  In a very liquid market (minimum spread) anyone putting a bet up is providing a service to other customers, someone putting up bets with a wide spread isn't.
Report mouse muldoon June 21, 2018 5:49 PM BST
That excuse doesn't wash in this case as the 3 TBPs were more liquid than the 2 TBPs which are still there.
Report sparrow June 21, 2018 5:53 PM BST
Precisely mouse. We had the very same argument the other day.
Report sparrow June 21, 2018 5:54 PM BST
dave1357    14 Jun 18 15:21 
I only ever play the standard place market, so I really would rather that was the only one tbh.
Report longbridge June 21, 2018 5:56 PM BST
I didn't get that argument of dave1357.  It's like saying "I only ever smoke B&H, so I'd rather tobacconists didn't stock Silk Cut"
Report dave1357 June 21, 2018 6:36 PM BST
It's nothing like saying that.  If the standard place market is the only market, it's clearly better for me.
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