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17 Dec 13 02:29
Date Joined: 30 Aug 10
| Topic/replies: 41 | Blogger: derekk164's blog
Hi all,
General post here, have been thinking for some time about possibly getting involved in either a syndicate with a small share (nothing larger than 10%) Or become a member of a racing club, the latter being the significantly cheaper option, with racing club membership about £400 per year, as opposed to 16-1700 per year for a 10th share i have seen advertised. Is anyone on here involved in either, and does the fun you get from either really increase depending on which option you take? My thoughts on a racing club are that the club may have numerous horses, however with about 100 or so members, surely the feeling of involvement is minimal, and more of a token gesture, as opposed to being part of a syndicate with say a 10th share. Any advice, general chat from guys involved would be greatly appreciated, always fancied as much interest (minus a lottery win of outright ownership) into a horse, to enjoy it from another perspective rather than standard punter at a given meeting, which is generally every NH meeting i can make in scotland per year! Thanks guys,
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Report Brian December 17, 2013 9:03 AM GMT
In years gone by, I've been involved in a few medium/large number syndicates. The involvement can be rewarding  if you get can get to the courses to watch the races and visit training yards (probably need to live within a reasonable driving distance of the training yard). The downside you have to accept the limited nature of the involvement, I thought that largely I was paying for the fun of the Syndicate Manager who was getting the true involvement for little or no cost.
The last one I was involved in was relatively small syndicate (about 80 members I think) in a promising young chaser. After about 6 months, I got letter from the Syndicate manager saying that he had sold the horse (for a profit). No idea that was even on agenda and was a great disappointment, that put me off any further involvement.
Report mange December 17, 2013 9:47 AM GMT
My advice.........(having been there).........U need 4/6 people...........spare money..........dont expect a return..............small Trainer that knows his stuff...............that has or knows of 1 that is worth a go with & then go half share with them.
           Also find a way of making decisions i/e after winning once we could have an extra £250 or a lot voted for the trophy .....I couldent see we going to share it..........were put it on show in the pub.............& 1 busy night some jealous b@stard sawed the  ears off it.............
Report posy December 17, 2013 9:57 AM GMT
I've been a member of a number of syndicates some of which have owned 'saturday' horses and to be honest i've never made money out of them.The way the agreements are structured leave all the risk with the syndicate members and the majority of gains with the manager/trainers.Also difficult to make money from betting on them as the manager never really goes out on a limb and the horses chances are couched in terms the oracle at Delphi would be proud of. Mostly missed them when they won and backed them when they lost ! Having said all that it's fun to go racing as an 'owner' with like minded people.
Regarding racing clubs I was a member for a couple of years of Timeform/Betfair which unfortunately was disbanded earlier this year. This was a terrific club which was heavily subsidised and owned/leased a number of horses like Cause of Causes and Bourne.I believe it was chopped after a Betfair Ltd cost review initiated by the current CEO.I've looked into a number of Clubs since the loss of Timeform/Betfair however haven't found anything as remotely as good so have given up looking and just taken out annual membership at a couple of local courses.
Report hyper25 December 17, 2013 10:55 AM GMT
I've been a member of a syndicate at Keith dagliesh stable with prestige syndicates for the last year for a small outlay I've had great fun salvatore fury we had 2 wins and a number of places ,don't know if it would suit you as it was on the flat but I think they have a number of horses,they have a website you can check out.
Report derekk164 December 17, 2013 11:17 AM GMT
Funny you should mention that hyper25, one of the best days racing ive had was earlier this year at hamilton, had a couple of drinks in RUK bar just next to the grandstand, and bumped into a guy, turned round and it was john higgins. Had a good crack for about 10 minutes with him, and we'd both backed salvatore fury that day (9/2 i believe) and im sure he was on for a lot more than the £50 that i was. Ever since then hes been in my ATR tracker, just the kind of horse who im sure youve had a load of fun from. Certainly think i'll dip my toes into something at the lower end of the scale, just for a litle fun. I appreciate the replies, i always assumed those with a more select syndicate had more of an idea into the horses chances,probably not! As mentioned only syndicate managers/trainers really in the know. G/L all today, lord of drums count danilo double today, heres hoping.
Report paulie wallnuts December 17, 2013 11:27 AM GMT yerself a favour and shelve this idea......ya will have no say whatsoever......the only input ya will have is helping pay the bills......
Report River Verdon December 17, 2013 12:50 PM GMT
Agree with paullie, been involved with quite a few myself, but there's no edge, the prize money is laughable, I get just as much enjoyment going to the races and the money I save, which is quite considerable, I have spent enjoying days out at the races, booking a table, sponsoring a race, having a nice meal etc, you will meet just as many people doing that than you would in a syndicate.  I also have a few horses that I 'own' that I follow throughout the year. I will try visit the racecourse when their running, place a nice bet and get just as much enjoyment that way. One of 'my' horses is Cue Card, followed it for a few years, go and watch it run, place a nice bet", get lots of enjoyment for no cost, I do it with a few nags too, look for a horse you 'may buy' go and watch it, follow it through the year etc.

I live close to a few trainers and would consider buying in with them but only on a small scale and would have to be the right trainer.  Racing Clubs another waster of money, you pay for a few emails a year, maybe a stable visit, which are quite easily accessible on open days.  Owning a horse or part of, is a seriously expensive business and in effect you will be paying a lot of money for the racing mangers enjoyment.  Out of interest where have you seen the 10% for £1700 ??

Whatever you decide, would love ur experiences/feedback.
Report Dr Gonzo December 17, 2013 1:15 PM GMT
Depends what you're after really. The racing clubs are cheaper, and you've got the chance of having one with a top trainer, but your opportunities to get involved are going to be limited - ballots for badges on raceday etc.

There are some good small syndicates around, with horses with smaller trainers who are obviously much less likely to give you runners on the really big days. The upside is that they're much more accommodating in letting you visit the yard, and generally treating the owners well and letting you feel far more involved. There are also syndicate managers do it because they enjoy it, not to make money, which is also important. For all the people who are in racing to make money, it's worth remembering that there are plenty of decent people about - trainers included.

If that £1700 a year for 10% is all in, then that's a pretty cheap deal.
Report Dr Gonzo December 17, 2013 1:17 PM GMT
Oh, and I know a lot of people want to get involved with syndicates purely because they think it's a route to decent info from a yard - if that's what you're after then it's really not worth bothering. You might get the odd decent shout, but that's about it.
Report Artadi December 17, 2013 1:43 PM GMT
H Derek

Here are some of my thoughts.

My first venture was with Pipe /Scudamore for a couple of hundred quid.
Had a hairs worth of about a dozen horses which included a great little hurdler called Hopscotch who used to go like a scalded cat and won a series of races by a wide margin.
Lost one to Colic.
Also had the opportunity to go to a members tent at Chelt and won the raffle for owner of Silver King in the Triumph which was just fantastic.
You tend to get stable visits thrown in and a ballot for owners badges which you probably have more chance of getting that you would anticipate as most members don't go to all the meetings.

Got back about 30 quid when the syndicate finished. So value for money 10 out of 10 and financial risk diddly squat !

Second venture[/u]

I bought a horse and got a syndicate together to train him and run him.
To cut a long story short, it cost us two seasons training and vets money (About 30k), he ran only once and was injured on three separate occasions when in the middle of training..
A week prior to him running his second race he bust his pelvis on the gallops.
We took him home after 4 months boxed at the trainers (even more cost) and he has now recovered and is happily show jumping and dressaging in Scotland.

Fun...yes, for one brief moment. Heartache ?, yes,  plenty of it both emotionally and financially.

You need deep pockets and a lot of luck if you are going to go into a small syndicate.

On the plus side, you get to know the trainers personally and are guaranteed an owners badge if you get to run.

However, what the average punter is not aware of, are the huge number of horses who go into training and never run at all.

Additionally, the prize money in the UK is awful and you are very unlikely to recoup costs.

Third venture

I got very lucky on some shares I posted on another Betfair forum a few years back and decided to throw some away to chance the dream.

I have just returned from France where I have decided to risk some more money by sending my one horse to be trained there.
He is a Dom Alco yearling and his mare was sired by Network who also sired Sprintre Sachre so I have high hopes but wont hold my breath for anything other than costs and frustration.

I mention this, because the more I looked into it, the bigger a no brainer it was,  as the percentage return on outlay in France is significantly higher and at least gives you a sporting chance of recovering costs if you decide to get a small syndicate together.

Since they don't run too often, then the costs of the odd trip will hopefully be compensated with decent prize money and a nice weekend away.

So my advice would be,  if you buy into a large syndicate then go for a local trainer, if you want to spend/risk more money , find an English speaking trainer in France and go for a smaller syndicate.

As other posters have said, you are far better off with a smaller trainer as you will get far more involved and better feedback.

Best of luck.

Here are some old stats and I think the difference has now grown even larger

"Owners can expect to cover 55% of their training costs through prize money as opposed to 23% in the UK and 28% in Ireland"
(2008 IFHA figures).[/b]
Report derekk164 December 19, 2013 4:21 AM GMT
The 10% i had seen offered was an one off cost of £700+135 per month thereafter so just over 2300 per year, was in Exetlar, in training with lucinda russell. Still at a crossroads as to what to try first!
Report Steamship December 19, 2013 11:03 AM GMT
Hi derek164, over the years I have been involved with some clubs syndicates and bred my own.
If you are going to do it then how often can you get to the races? Crap if he is running on  a Monday and youre working.

A local trainer I think the best part of being involved is going to the stables. I had one with Peter Beaumont only an hour away and he was really accomodating( course he is retired now). If I was to be involved again it would be a Malton horse for locslity alone.

I was with Middleham Park Racing in the early days and my horse ran 4 times finished last in 3 of those races and got sold. It was a poor experience but to be fair to them they did offer me shares in anothere that went on to win a couple of.

Bad lkick continiued for me as Beaumonts horse got injured at home and was retired he had finished a really nice 2nd at Kelso. That was through Paul Clarkson he was really good look at his website.

My own horse had to be put down as a yearling.

All in I spent over 10k on ownership. Best bits seeing my foal born, drinks at Beaumonts, couple of racing days out. Not really worth it.

I now do what Paulie does and a few years ago went to Donny sales with a pretend 20k and bought Kingsben with the idea that I would have a large bet on him every time he ran. I think 2nd race he won 14-1, I was out of the country.

But I now have favourite horses that I do the same with them Seebright has been very lucky for me and I have added Assam Black due to run on Saturday. Its a lot cheaper.
Report derekk164 January 13, 2014 7:55 AM GMT
UPDATE-Hi to all interested,decided to purchase a 5% share in a yearling colt By hellvelyn (royal ascot winner) by songsheet in training with Keith Dalgliesh.Really looking forward to my first experience in syndicated ownership at not a lot of money. :)
Report Steamship January 13, 2014 8:08 AM GMT
Good luck with it what is the name of the syndicate?
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