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23 Dec 10 17:20
Date Joined: 30 Nov 10
| Topic/replies: 21,253 | Blogger: wildmanfromborneo's blog
In my opinion the greatest horse of all time.He never won an Aintree Grand National because he was never given the chance,he won only three Cheltenham Gold Cups to Golden Millers five.But no horse crossed ever crossed a steeplechase fence much faster or more safely,no horse ever produced a more deadly turn of speed at the finish of a gruelling three mile chase,no horse ever conceded bigger weights,and no horse ever had a bigger heart.Perhaps there will be another like him one day,but those like me who knew Arkle in his prime will believe that only when we see it.
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Report wildmanfromborneo December 23, 2010 5:34 PM GMT
ged...I remember Flyingbolt as well another brilliant horse,the biggest mystery was how he got beaten in the 1966 Champion Hurdle.
Report tobermory December 23, 2010 5:34 PM GMT
Report ged December 23, 2010 5:36 PM GMT
In January 1966, the Sporting Life carried the front page story that Tom Dreaper was intending to run Arkle in the Champion Hurdle, the day before the Gold Cup.

Ladbrokes quoted 1-3 for the Gold Cup, 4-5 the Champion Hurdle, 5-4 the double. (William Hill offefred Evens the Champion Hurdle). However the idea was soon dropped, as the owner thought 2 miles was too short, and the race would spoil his Gold Cup chances.
Report brigust1 December 23, 2010 5:38 PM GMT
I was, and always will be a Mill House fan, but sadly he couldn't get Arkle off the bridle. The fences were stiffer then and weights carried were higher.
For what it is worth I think Mill House would have murdered Denman.
Report ged December 23, 2010 5:40 PM GMT
In the 1966 King George, Mill House did not run because he pulled a muscle on Christmas Day, but the the official race card, printed before this was known, had this as the betting f/c:-

1/7 Arkle
7/1 Mill House
100/6 Woodland Venture
100/6 Dormant.

There were 10 declared.

Weights to be carried:-
Arkle 12-7
Mill House 11-10
Woodland Venture 11-7
Dormant 11-0
(Others between 11-7 and 11-0)
Report wildmanfromborneo December 23, 2010 5:40 PM GMT
ged.....I love your posts so i hate to correct you but they were both trained in north County Dublin by Tom Dreaper not in County Carlow.
Report ged December 23, 2010 5:41 PM GMT
The race was meant to be run on Monday 26th, but racing was abandoned due to frost, and was run instead the following day.
Report tobermory December 23, 2010 5:44 PM GMT
Thought the KG was level weights Confused
Report ged December 23, 2010 5:46 PM GMT
Woodland Venture won the Gold Cup 3 months later.
Report the lay preacher December 23, 2010 5:47 PM GMT
neither denman or kauto would have got near arkle.
as for mill house what a horse he was unlucky to be around the same time as arkle.
if they could all run in the gold cup at the same time .
2.mill house
4.kauto star.
Report wildmanfromborneo December 23, 2010 5:49 PM GMT
Mill House was unlucky to be around the same time as Arkle.He was a champion in his own right,we will never know how many Gold Cups he would have won if Arkle wasnt around,he would have murdered Denman.Denman is not even the best horse now.
Report ged December 23, 2010 5:51 PM GMT
Arkle carried a 21lb penalty in 1966.

wildman - fair enough - I had it in my head it was County Carlow.
Report saxon farm December 23, 2010 6:57 PM GMT
I do enjoy these nostalgic, debate provoking threads.
Back to Flyingbolt, probably the main reason he did not win the 1966 Champion Hurdle, was that the day before he won The Champion Chase!
Report BobSievier December 23, 2010 7:03 PM GMT
Regularly gave Gold Cup standard chasers 35lbs and a beating , we will never see his like again .
Report stephaniebot December 23, 2010 7:12 PM GMT
The horse that got me interested in racing to be honest. That era was quite something, adding Stalbridge Colonist, and maybe What A Myth to that list of great horses of that era
Report ACSC \SDCV DV FDD December 23, 2010 7:15 PM GMT

The two legends go toe to toe in the 1964 Gold cup
Report BobSievier December 23, 2010 7:17 PM GMT
Arkle gave Stalbridge Colonist 30+lbs in the Henessey (1966 I think) and got beat a length on his seasonal reappearance , that's my point.
Report mange December 23, 2010 7:17 PM GMT
won a Gold  Cup on St Patricks Day with a sprig of shamrock in his bridal .........saw it
Report sixtwosix December 23, 2010 7:18 PM GMT
Of course because he was head & shoulders above all the Chasers in the 1960's  , how on earth could a horse in the 21st Century that has won 4 King George Chases by a total of over  60 lengths expect to finish within a furlong of himself at Kempton on a hypothetical Boxing Day.

Get a grip of your rose tinted glasses , Arkle would whup Kauto Star at Cheltenham or in a handicap , but not in the King George he wouldn't.
Report Hayden December 23, 2010 7:20 PM GMT
Was 1966 Bob , here's the closing stages
Report Far From Trouble December 23, 2010 7:23 PM GMT
sixtwosix     23 Dec 10 19:18 
Of course because he was head & shoulders above all the Chasers in the 1960's  , how on earth could a horse in the 21st Century that has won 4 King George Chases by a total of over  60 lengths expect to finish within a furlong of himself at Kempton on a hypothetical Boxing Day.

Get a grip of your rose tinted glasses , Arkle would whup Kauto Star at Cheltenham or in a handicap , but not in the King George he wouldn't.

What about a handicap at Kempton? Silly
Report mr crisp December 23, 2010 7:23 PM GMT
they used to frame two lots of handicap weights. 1 set to be used if arkle ran .the other set to be used if he did not run.
Report pedrobob December 23, 2010 7:25 PM GMT
no idea if the course layout still the same, but anyone know what were the times of Arkle's King George wins compared to Kauto, going and weight carried?
Report yashin5632 December 23, 2010 7:28 PM GMT
i remember when he met mill house way back and i thought the mill was unbeatable i had 6 quid on him which was a fortune back then and an hour before the race i badly cut my hand needing 20 stitches but i still managed to watch the race got well and truly thumped he was different class ah well.......................
Report deuces December 23, 2010 7:39 PM GMT
Ive seen his skeleton at the national stud,& some old videos.Himself would still beat most of the king george field NOW.The greatest steeplechaser to ever grace the turf.
Report wildmanfromborneo December 23, 2010 7:50 PM GMT
saxon farm......  I hate criticising jockeys but it was not Pat Taaffes finest hour,but i agree the Two Mile Champion Chase win took its toll.The only other time i was critical of a jockey was the 1973 Grand National when the noble Australian horse Crisp gave an exhibition of jumping,he was a fence ahead at one stage,after Beechers second time round there was only one real pursuer Red Rum,who i think was receiving 23 pounds from Crisp.All his jockey,Richard Pitman,had to do was give him a breather but no he then compounded that errorby picking up his stick after the last.He was still clear but was exhausted he then hit him which caused him to lose balance and wander off a straight line.Crisp didnt deserve that,he was exhausted and trying his hardest,Red Rum collared him on the line to win by a neck i think.At the time i thought it highway robbery but the later exploits of Red Rum showed to be far worse.
Report M T wallet December 23, 2010 7:53 PM GMT
I wasn't into racing then -only 13 , but I remember
our racing-mad maths teacher listening to radio comm
in class ( the 64 GC I think)
I don't know if he had a bet (he did like one)
probably too short a price for a secondary school teacher
in 60's Ireland.
Report saxon farm December 23, 2010 8:12 PM GMT
I agree, certainly about Pat Taaffe's ride that day, and at least Dick Pitman has always been man enough to admit using the whip on the gallant Crisp cost him the race in the '73 GN.
Nit picking though, Red Rum and possibly others had cleared the 22nd before Crisp had reached the Foinavon fence.Mischief
Report wildmanfromborneo December 23, 2010 8:20 PM GMT
saxon farm......I see you remember the race well,however i said a fence clear at one stage not Beechers but i am open to correction.
Report ged December 23, 2010 8:29 PM GMT
Coming up the line of fences from the Canal Turn, only Red Rum is within a fence of him. As Crisp approaches the 2nd last, you can see L'Escargot (who finished 3rd) just jumping the 3rd last - he must have been about a furlong and a half behind Crisp at that point. After Red Rum jumps the 2nd last, Brian Fletcher looks round - it can only be that he thought he was riding for 2nd at that point, but soon after Crisp falls away, and Fletcher soon realised he might win. Grey Sombrero had been with Crisp until Bechers first time, and was still within shouting distance of him and in clear second at the Chair, where he fell and tragically broke his shoulder, leaving Crisp a long way clear. Crisp actually hurdled those fences. he was amazing.
Report saxon farm December 23, 2010 8:58 PM GMT
Great memories gentlemen!
I was 10 years old at the time of the 1973 GN, which remains to this day the most amazing race I have had the pleasure to witness.
Report wildmanfromborneo December 23, 2010 9:17 PM GMT
Saxon farm......there was athread on earlier race of the decade,this to me was the race of the century,it had everything.The most spectacular...Crisps jumping.The saddest....Crisps defeat.The most dramatic.....the finish.I actually backed Lescargot.
Report dundalk1977 December 23, 2010 9:53 PM GMT
money tree you have proved tonight what a cretin you really are ,everyone ignored your attempt at fishing and proving yourself a fool of the highest calibre.i HAD to post on this to actually remind you what a buffoon you are just in case you didnt know.clown.
Report pacemaker December 23, 2010 10:05 PM GMT
imperious best describes ARKLE; just as I've got into racing (straight from the snooker halls!) and then my first-ever journalistic piece on racing (derby telegraph!) dealt with PERSIAN WAR when he proved me right by beating Major Rose in the 'Schweppes!'
I was spoiled, arkle and persian war; none better since and I've re-computed the times, to make sure I'm not being biased.
FLYINGBOLT was sensational, that fantastic 'champion double' attempt ranks as one of the great 'moments' in NH history!
Report johnizere December 23, 2010 10:31 PM GMT
Mandarin winning the 1962 Grand Steeplechase de Paris, ridden by Fred Winter... google it, you'll be amazed how he won!,  is up there with the great races, as is Mandarin one of the great chasers, but for me there can only be Arkle at the top of the horses I've seen (live) in my lifetime.
Report johnizere December 23, 2010 10:36 PM GMT

It's a good read, if nothing else!
Report saxon farm December 23, 2010 11:55 PM GMT
Well done pacemaker & johnizere.

Fred Winter & the equine stars aforementioned, are too easily forgotten legends by some. 
Mind you, nowadays we live in a heady era of especially fine staying chasers, which is wonderful.

(Well it would be even better, if the weather b....y relented!)
Report salmon spray December 24, 2010 1:21 AM GMT
I am astonished that anybody is astonished that Flyingbolt was beaten in the 1966 Champion Hurdle. He was simlply thrashed by a much better horse.
Report tobermory December 24, 2010 1:26 AM GMT
Who was that Salmon?

Report wildmanfromborneo December 24, 2010 7:31 AM GMT
Salmon Spray...In the words of Mandy Rice Davis He would say that wouldnt he.
Report LuckyLucan December 24, 2010 8:50 AM GMT
Am I right in thinking there was a horse called Rondetto around about the same time as Arkle and mill House? Anyone have any info about him please and did he fall when a long odds on shot one December because I recall a friend having five up in a tanner win accumulator but Ron let him down, I think?
Report wildmanfromborneo December 24, 2010 9:39 AM GMT
LuckyLucan......My memory of Rondetto is from the 1967 Grand National when coming up to the now called Foinavon fence the commentator Michael OHehir saying The Fossa has fallen Rondetto has fallen there is a right pile up.As an aside i remember an English friend saying to me it could only have happened at OHehirs fence,we all knew exactly what he meant.
Report kohaku December 24, 2010 9:51 AM GMT
Rondetto brings back memories as well.
Report jackdaw December 24, 2010 11:06 AM GMT
M T Wallet - I think the 64 GC was run on a Saturday because of all the interest in the Mill House/Arkle clash (can you imagine the BBC doing that now?).

For me the the outstanding memory of the race was Sir Peter's words as Arkle crossed the line - "This is the best we have seen for a long time".
Report johnizere December 24, 2010 11:16 AM GMT
Flyingbolt '66 Ch.Hurdle.
Such a big magnificent horse, see how he took the hurdles, looks as if he was much more suited to chasing?
Report johnizere December 24, 2010 11:20 AM GMT
Arkle 1965 & 1966 Cheltenham Gold Cups

Forgive my nostalgia... I'm still in mourning for Himself!
Report salmon spray December 24, 2010 11:20 AM GMT
Rondetto was a stablemate of mine with " Sir " Bob Turnell. He was older than me being born in 1956. He was also almost invariably ridden by Jeff King whereas I was the mount of the other stable jockey,Johnny Haine. Originally seen as a two and a half miler ( he won the Stones Ginger Wine Chase as an 8-y-o )he showed improved form at 9 to win the NH Hunt H`cap at The Cheltemham Festival,carrying 11-11 and beating the future Gold Cup winner Fort Leney who had 12-7. Early the following season he finished 2nd to Arkle,beaten 20l and receiving 26lbs in what I think was called The Benson and Hedges H`cap Chase at Sandown.He had Mill House and a number of other good horses behind him in what I would argue was Arkle`s greatest ever performance. Carrying 10-9 Rondetto was one of few horses who could get into the handicap when Arkle had 12-7. Later that season Rondetto seemed to start to deteriorate and was beaten twice in small conditions races at long odds-on. Once was by quite a useful horse called Rupununi but the other time it was by a no-hoper called Ballygowan ( or something like that. I am writing this off the top of my head ).I don`t think he fell in either though. However he had something of an Indian summer when given a chance by the handicapper,winning The Hennessy just before his 12th birthday off 10-1 and finally finishing 3rd in The National at the age of 13 ( they didn`t mollycoddle us in those days ). He was a great trouper.
Report johnizere December 24, 2010 11:25 AM GMT
Last one.. hope Money Tree has seen these!

Arkle 1965 Whitbread Gold Cup
Report LuckyLucan December 24, 2010 11:33 AM GMT
Thanks Salmon Spray for such comprehensive feedback. Much appreciated. Happy Christmas.
Report ged December 24, 2010 11:48 AM GMT
salmon - it was the famous Gallaher Gold Cup.

1. Arkle, 8-12-7, "led 9th to 15th; led 20th"
2. Rondetto, 9-10-9, "hdwy 19th, never nearer"
3. Mill House, 8-11-5, "led 5th to 8th; led 16th to 19th; tired from 20th"
4. The Rip 10-10-0, "no hdwy from 16th"

Distances 20; 4; 15; 10

4/9 Arkle
7/2 Mill House
9 Rondetto
20 The Rip
33 bar

Time 5m 59s
(Previous best 6m 16s set by Mill House 9 months earlier)
Report salmon spray December 24, 2010 12:03 PM GMT
Thanks ged. Yep remember now. Think it had been run as the B&H previously.
Report Blackrock December 24, 2010 12:06 PM GMT
They are all wonderful posts of an era gone by. My two fav horses of all time are Arkle and Nijinsky. Am i just an old geezer who lives in the past, or were the greatest horses of all time over 40 yrs ago?
Report brigust1 December 24, 2010 12:06 PM GMT
One I seem to remeber is Bonna Notte, I think that is how it was spelt. Ran in what was possibly the Massey Ferguson, again may be wrong, I think he was unbeaten at the time from 6 runs. Carried 10st and just failed. Arkle was narrowly beaten in 3rd carrying top weight.
Imagine Kauto Star carrying 12st 7lb in the Paddy Power, blinding race.
Probably got most of these facts slightly wrong but it was a long time ago and I backed BN. Also Turnells I think. Fell and died in next race?
Report ged December 24, 2010 12:11 PM GMT
Vid of the last mile of the Gallaher here:-

Despite the record pace, and the weight, Arkle still looks to be running away at the end of the back straight. Rondetto not far behind at that stage, but Mill House makes a mistake at the Pond Fence and it's race over.
Report ged December 24, 2010 12:15 PM GMT
Brigust - Buona Notte. Arkle carried 12-10 (had a 3lb penalty for winning the Hennessy 7 days previous under 12-7). Buona Notte carried 10-12, and was beaten a sh hd, with Arkle a length behind. Buona Notte had run away with the Sun Alliance earlier in the year. He died in the Great Yorkshire chase later in the season. (May have been his next race).
Report LuckyLucan December 24, 2010 12:20 PM GMT
Okaqy, here's one to test the more mature members. What can anyone tell me about a flat horse called Pigeon Toes who ran over sprints as a two year old with either Joe Sime or Eddie Hide on board or it could have been Eddy Larkin, please?
Report paulo47 December 24, 2010 12:22 PM GMT
Trained by peter poston , once had 14 seconds on the spin .
Report brigust1 December 24, 2010 12:26 PM GMT
Thanx Ged, I thought Arkle had run just before that race and won the Hennessy but not only 7 days before. And the Cheltenham race was over 2m 5f or so. Blinding stuff really when you look at it. Just gets better and better.
Report boxingthefox December 24, 2010 12:27 PM GMT
Great thread. I was privileged to see all the above named horses as I was a regular race goer back then.
An interesting read from the telegraph,     Stan Mellor tells how he managed to beat Arkle instead of being beaten by at least 25 lengths on Stalbridge Colonist.

Nothing will ever touch Arkle he simply was the best......but how close was Flyingbolt???
Report salmon spray December 24, 2010 12:29 PM GMT
brigust. It was Buona Notte,yet another stablemate of mine. It was indeed the Massey-Ferguson and Buona Notte was carrying more than 10-0,though Arkle had 12-10 ( He had a penalty for winning the Hennessy a couple of weeks before !)Buona was the same age as Arkle and Mill House but had been put over fences a bit later and was unbeaten as a novice. I think that race was his first outside novice company but everybody knew he was a potential superstar.In fact he should have won the race. Haine brought him to lead on the bridle between the last two,and you just didn`t do that to Arkle however much weight he was giving away. Unfortunately he got too cocky and didn`t push on and the horse made a horlicks of the last. He got past Arkle again,but couldn`t quite catch the grey mare Flying Wild to whom he was giving weight. Buona Notte fell in his next race and then was killed in The Great Yorkshire at Doncaster. It`s just possible he was in the same class as Mill House if not Arkle. The yard was very sombre the night he died.         Sad
Report ged December 24, 2010 12:33 PM GMT
Massey Ferguson result:-

1. Flying Wild 8-10-6 "Jumped well; with leaders from 11th; led appr last; headed; soon led; just held on"
2. Buona Notte 7-10-12 "jumped well; headway from 10th; slight lead last; blundered on landing; ran on well flat"
3. Arkle 7-12-10 (3x) "jumped well; always prominent; led approaching 6th; led 13th till approaching last; rallied near finish"

8/11 Arkle
4 Buona Notte
8 Scottish Memories
100/8 Flying Wild
7 ran
Report ged December 24, 2010 12:34 PM GMT
Distances: sh hd; 1; 2; 15
Report LuckyLucan December 24, 2010 12:42 PM GMT
Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
and never brought to mind ?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
and auld lang syne* ?
For auld lang syne, my jo,
for auld lang syne,
we’ll tak a cup o’ kindness yet,
for auld lang syne.
Report salmon spray December 24, 2010 1:02 PM GMT
Rondetto,Buona Notte,Flash Bulb,Beau Normand,Meon Valley,The Laird and the " young pretenders " Beacon Light,Tree Tangle,Birds Nest and so many others.
At least I have been reincarnated on here             [;)]
Report brigust1 December 24, 2010 1:05 PM GMT
At my age the younger generation tend to poo-hoo results of the past but the Arkle story really is something else. As I said earlier I am a Mill House fan but Arkle is/was a stand alone. No hype needed.
Report salmon spray December 24, 2010 1:18 PM GMT
A one-off brigust. Actually I think he was a a freak. The two horses who have reminded me of him a bit over the years were Pendil and Remittance Man,but they were both noticeably smaller. Arkle was no giant,Mill House dwarved him,but he was a fair specimen of the old-fashioned chaser to look at. When he ran and jumped though he became part-greyhound. He had speed,stamina and apart from unparalleled ability a great heart. It nearly broke mine when he was injured 44 years ago on Sunday,but still somehow limped home 2nd on 3 legs.
Report kohaku December 24, 2010 1:21 PM GMT

Reminded me of 'The Rip'
Report salmon spray December 24, 2010 1:27 PM GMT
Another very gallant horse kohaku. Seemed to spend most of his later career chasing Arkle at a respectful distance. He was with Cazalet and I have a feeling he was one of the French-breds that Cazalet had in those days before they became common in GB. Laffy was certainly one.
Report the lay preacher December 24, 2010 4:36 PM GMT
mill house flew the cheltenham fences like no horse i have seen before or since yet still had to give best to arkle.
what a horse.
Report wildmanfromborneo December 24, 2010 5:09 PM GMT
This had to be the ultimate old timers thread.Seventy seven replies,not one swear word,no malice,long posts,and a dearth of the dreaded faces.Thanks for all your replies a special thanks to ged for his detailed responses he should be declared the settler of historic racing disputes also thanks to tobermory for his two photos and seeing he can do that will probably object to being referred to as an old timer.I will leave you with this thought What a pity god wasted youth on the young.
Report LuckyLucan December 24, 2010 5:17 PM GMT
To the younger members: Make the most of these pearls of wisdom from the senior citizens of Betfair.. Half of us will not be around this time next year!
Report dod December 24, 2010 5:29 PM GMT
Rumour had it that Arkles trainer did not want to run him against flying bolt i suspect he thought they would be very close, they had to make 2 handicaps for flyingbolt as well but they were very special  animals Mill House was always my favourite though remember him winning the whitbread in the twilight of his years under topweight as if he was a youngster also great horses like Buona Notte and fabulous 2 mile chaser Dunkirk trained by P Cazlet the royal trainer and a great irish gey called Flying Wild dont know if anyone will recall it i was a school lad at the time and my mispent youth was backing horses great times.
Report brigust1 December 24, 2010 6:01 PM GMT
Happy Christmas to you all.

I wonder whether we will be comparing Kauto Star to Himself this time next year. Somehow I doubt it.
Report mrjc December 24, 2010 6:12 PM GMT
what a marvellous read from you guys.
got into racing in the 60s - teenager
accumalator up £32 1 9 for a shilling ew - dashing white sergeant was the only one i can remember
pat taffe won his races in the "country"
johnny haine would have been terrific nowadays - stylish jockey, could ride a finish
jeff king - hard as nails, no quarter given & no favours asked
i've seen some wonderful horses in my time - still Arkle for me.
Report kohaku December 24, 2010 6:14 PM GMT
another old bugger..mind you,we were lucky to grow up in the 60's.

We've had the best of evrything.im0
Report paulo47 December 24, 2010 6:26 PM GMT
The two things that also amazed me was firstly that Anne Duchess of Westminster used to ride Arkle bareback , when he went home for the summer . And on the Portrait of A Champion video , he is shown with a 3 or 4 year old child on his back being led round on a lead rope attached to his headcollar .
I am ashamed to say that I was at Kempton in 1965 and backed the ill-fated Dunkirk that day , but some 40 years later my 16.3 thoroughbred riding horse was shod by Fulke Walwyn's old farrier , who one day at Newbury had to put a shoe back on Arkle . Touched by greatness I tell him .
Report patsyone December 24, 2010 7:21 PM GMT
BOXINTHEFOX at their best TIMEFORM had them rated 210 ARKLE 209 FLYINGBOLT
FLYING BOLT 3rd champion hurdle day later won champion chase
Report salmon spray December 24, 2010 7:34 PM GMT
Tother way round patsy. My mate Flash Bulb softened him up for me.
Report matso December 24, 2010 9:13 PM GMT
What a great era it was, some tremendous old names mentioned, have been trying to recall other great names from that era but feel they were a couple of years after Arkle;
Ben Stack... Irish Imp... Makaldar...Titus Oates etc... there were some some great hunter chasers about as well :Credit Call....Baulking Green...Bullocks Horn... Timmies Battle... Battle Royal.. Deblins Green etc.

Great era !!
Report salmon spray December 24, 2010 10:18 PM GMT
Ben Stack and Irish Imp were the same age as Arkle and Mill House.
As were Dunkirk,Buona Notte,What a Myth,Dormant and quite a few others.
Makaldar was a bit younger but made his name first as a juvenile hurdler so was around at the same time. Titus Oates was definitely later. Baulking Green must have been quite a bit older than the Arkle generation.
Report dod December 25, 2010 10:20 AM GMT
I have to say salmon spray that Salmon Spray was one of my favourite horses at the time he had a great turn of foot and was always guaranteed to run a good race if i remember was ridden by the trainers son andy turnell,Sempervivum another cracking hurdler if i remember at the time, this post could go on for ever but its good to remember them.
Report salmon spray December 25, 2010 10:24 AM GMT
Andy may well have just started riding but his father didn`t give him any plums. Haine rode Salmon Spray and Jeff King was the other stable jockey. Andy did eventually become stable jockey. Will always be remembered for his triumphs and tribulations aboard Birds Nest and for riding with his ass in the air in a passable impersonation of Lester.
Report dod December 25, 2010 10:35 AM GMT
Never get old its bad for your health of course I remember now J Haine rode Salmon Spray he and Jeff King along with Stan Mellor were my fav jockeys of the time.
Report pacemaker December 25, 2010 11:06 AM GMT
REMEMBER would be imppossible to forget HIM-self!
an absolute GOD which bonded racing and the public, even though he was a black horse and the only white one was stalbridge colonist. you see, and it's hard to believe, there was no colour(ed) television picture then!
as for flyingbolt he definitely did achieve time-handicap marks close to arkle, difference was 'the great one' managed them effortlessly. he was 'killed off' eventually by the colossal weights he needed to carry in major handicaps, at long odds-on. the cumulative effect, predictably, was a cracked pedal bone which, of course, just about bears all the weight(s) on a thoroughbred.
btw when Arkle stormed up the hill, in the photo supplied, I watched and marvelled at the speed close by a fence, in the 'cheap' silver ring, across the course!
Report deuces December 26, 2010 10:38 AM GMT
Arkle became a national legend in ireland.His strength was jokingly claimed to come from drinking ****ss twice a day.At one point the slogan Arkle for president was written on a wall in Dublin.Often reffered to simply as `Himself`the story goes that he received items of fan mail addressed`Himself, Ireland`.
Report boxingthefox December 26, 2010 3:56 PM GMT
patsyone, I was aware of the ratings, but thank you for posting anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of how close would they be if they actually raced against each other. Cheers.
Report flushgordon December 26, 2010 3:57 PM GMT
yes it is still in situ in scotland.
Report salmon spray December 26, 2010 4:07 PM GMT
That would be Ben imo.
Report TheHonestScouser December 26, 2010 4:20 PM GMT
People get carried away coz it was years ago, racing much more comppetitive now

My top 3

1. Desert Orchid
2. Kauto Star
3. Arkle
Report boxingthefox December 26, 2010 4:37 PM GMT
You're quite right, people get carried away because it was years ago, Liverpool beat nobody's when they won European glory the first few times .....Laugh
Report TheHonestScouser December 26, 2010 5:02 PM GMT
which horse race were they in please (and please dont say a 1 horse race)
Report boxingthefox December 26, 2010 5:04 PM GMT
1 horse race. [:x]
Report boxingthefox December 26, 2010 5:14 PM GMT
Arkle will have been dead for 40 years next Monday and did not have an ego to be flattered or deflated in any case. The question of whether that rating (212) is trustworthy is thus somewhat academic, but not entirely so, because every subsequent champion has been tested against it and found wanting. Horses like Best Mate, Desert Orchid and now even Kauto Star appear in the record books as relative second-raters because, for all their talent and achievements, Arkle could have given most of them two stone and a beating – in Timeform's opinion, at least.

Nothing more to add really. Happy
Report wildmanfromborneo December 27, 2010 9:43 PM GMT
boxingthefox.....Agree with your last post.When i was young in Ireland boxing the fox meant robbing an orchard,is that what you take it to mean? If not where did you get the name?
Report whooodiddles December 27, 2010 10:33 PM GMT
When i was 14 i went to see Arkle run in the Gallagher gold cup a handicap where he carried 12.7 he was in the unsadling enclosure when the others wer jumping the last - he beat the course record by 17 yes 17 seconds - that was an amazing performance i believe the record still stands today - he also went on to win the Whitbred the same year again lumping 12-7.
It was that day that turned me into an avid national hunt follower
Report wildmanfromborneo December 27, 2010 10:45 PM GMT
103 replies only two negative ones,they were posted by Money Tree and the TheHonestScouser.Says it all really.
Report Ken O'sback December 27, 2010 11:07 PM GMT
The common thoughts are that the exchanges are for the young ones.
Reading this thread shows how many 60/70 year "old uns " are on here.
All recalling the fabulous age of Jumping we witnessed
Report .Fidway. December 27, 2010 11:27 PM GMT
i always said if i had a time machine i would go back and watch some of arkles races, none of this going back to relive the birth of children etc
Report gotitwrong- December 28, 2010 12:57 AM GMT
Flyingbolt rated only 2lb lower than Arkle , and as Pat Taafe said ,as a younger horse , if not beset by illness/injury , could have been as good , if not better ,than Arkle
Report dod December 28, 2010 9:15 AM GMT
We all know that you cant tell how good Arkle, Flyingbolt, Millhouse, etc are against recent generations but experience watching horses for many years and also times dont lie,would tell me that these horses would beat anything since at level weights.
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