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cryoftruth
02 Jun 16 20:34
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Date Joined: 22 Mar 04
| Topic/replies: 4,663 | Blogger: cryoftruth's blog
Magnier, Tabor, and Smith pay a lot of money and maybe make a lot of money from horse racing. Now if I invested millions and got horses good enough for classics, would I have let my trainer indulge his nepotistic tendencies by using Joseph O'Brien to ride against the world's best top jock? Err no!

Having come to their senses and ditched Joseph, a barely competent but certainly rider, I see that one of their Derby hopes is being treated to the delights of Donnacha O'Brien's skills.

I am sure Donnacha is a nice lad and I am sure he is quite good at some things. However having witnessed his astonishing Ebor ride, I am not sure that riding high class race horses is one of them.

There are many fine riders in Ireland without a ride in this year's Epsom Derby.
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Report Madhu June 2, 2016 8:47 PM BST
cryoftruth-

I think that is way too harsh considering JOB's record (http://www.racingpost.com/horses/jockey_home.sd?jockey_id=88530#) and given his weight problems.



RACE NAME     DATE     HORSE     TRAINER     PRIZE MONEY
C.L. & M.F. Weld Park Stakes (Group 3) (Fillies)     27Sep15     Coolmore     A P O'Brien     £31,395
Palmerstown House Estate Irish St. Leger (Group 1)     13Sep15     Order Of St George     A P O'Brien     £157,364
Goffs Vincent O'Brien National Stakes (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     13Sep15     Air Force Blue     A P O'Brien     £134,884
Willis Champions Juvenile Stakes (Group 3)     12Sep15     Johannes Vermeer     A P O'Brien     £46,512
Breast Cancer Research Debutante Stakes (Group 2) (Fillies)     22Aug15     Ballydoyle     A P O'Brien     £53,488
Invesco Pension Consultants Desmond Stakes (Group 3)     13Aug15     Cougar Mountain     A P O'Brien     £31,492
Keeneland Phoenix Stakes (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     09Aug15     Air Force Blue     A P O'Brien     £112,403
Neptune Investment Management Gordon Stakes (Group 3)     29Jul15     Highland Reel     A P O'Brien     £56,710
Japanese Racing Association Tyros Stakes (Group 3)     23Jul15     Deauville     A P O'Brien     £30,233
Kilboy Estate Stakes (Group 2) (Fillies & Mares)     19Jul15     Wedding Vow     A P O'Brien     £53,488
Dubai Fillies' Mile (Group 1)     17Oct14     Together Forever     A P O'Brien     £133,269
Juddmonte Beresford Stakes (Group 2)     28Sep14     Ol' Man River     A P O'Brien     £54,167
C.L. & M.F. Weld Park Stakes (Group 3) (Fillies)     28Sep14     Qualify     A P O'Brien     £36,563
Goffs Vincent O'Brien National Stakes (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     14Sep14     Gleneagles     A P O'Brien     £145,000
John Deere Juvenile Turf Stakes (Group 3)     13Sep14     John F Kennedy     A P O'Brien     £50,000
Palmerstown House Estate Irish St Leger Trial Stakes (Group 3)     24Aug14     Leading Light     A P O'Brien     £32,500
Galileo European Breeders Fund Futurity Stakes (Group 2)     24Aug14     Gleneagles     A P O'Brien     £50,000
Juddmonte International Stakes (British Champions Series) (Group 1)     20Aug14     Australia     A P O'Brien     £453,680
Keeneland Phoenix Stakes (Group 1) (Colts & Fillies)     10Aug14     Dick Whittington     A P O'Brien     £96,667
Ballyroan Stakes (Group 3)     07Aug14     Eye Of The Storm     A P O'Brien     £32,500
Veuve Clicquot Vintage Stakes (Group 2)     30Jul14     Highland Reel     A P O'Brien     £45,368
Japanese Racing Authority Tyros Stakes (Group 3)     24Jul14     Gleneagles     A P O'Brien     £32,500
Jebel Ali Racecourse & Stables Anglesey Stakes (Group 3)     19Jul14     Dick Whittington     A P O'Brien     £35,208
At The Races Curragh Cup (Group 3)     29Jun14     Ernest Hemingway     A P O'Brien     £32,500
Dubai Duty Free Irish Derby (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     28Jun14     Australia     A P O'Brien     £604,167
Gold Cup (British Champions Series) (Group 1)     19Jun14     Leading Light     A P O'Brien     £212,663
Ribblesdale Stakes (Group 2) (Fillies)     19Jun14     Bracelet     A P O'Brien     £98,335
Munster Oaks Stakes (Group 3)     15Jun14     Venus De Milo     A P O'Brien     £40,625
Investec Derby (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     07Jun14     Australia     A P O'Brien     £782,598
Airlie Stud Gallinule Stakes (Group 3)     25May14     Adelaide     A P O'Brien     £35,208
Coolmore Vintage Crop Stakes (Group 3)     18May14     Leading Light     A P O'Brien     £35,208
High Chaparral European Breeders Fund Mooresbridge Stakes (Group 3)     05May14     Magician     A P O'Brien     £40,625
Leopardstown 1,000 Guineas Trial Stakes (Group 3)     30Mar14     Bracelet     A P O'Brien     £32,500
Dubai Dewhurst Stakes (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     12Oct13     War Command     A P O'Brien     £228,541
£500,000 Tattersalls Millions 2YO Trophy     05Oct13     Oklahoma City     A P O'Brien     £270,550
Juddmonte Beresford Stakes (Group 2)     29Sep13     Geoffrey Chaucer     A P O'Brien     £52,846
Ladbrokes St Leger Stakes (British Champions Series) (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     14Sep13     Leading Light     A P O'Brien     £340,260
KPMG Enterprise Stakes (Group 3)     07Sep13     The United States     A P O'Brien     £31,707
ICON Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf Trial Stakes (Group 3)     07Sep13     Australia     A P O'Brien     £31,707
Dance Design Stakes (Group 3) (Fillies & Mares)     01Sep13     Say     A P O'Brien     £31,707
Go And Go Round Tower Stakes (Group 3)     01Sep13     Great White Eagle     A P O'Brien     £31,707
Galileo European Breeders Fund Futurity Stakes (Group 2)     24Aug13     War Command     A P O'Brien     £48,780
Flying Five Stakes (Group 3)     24Aug13     Dutch Masterpiece     Gary Moore     £31,707
Juddmonte International Stakes (British Champions Series) (Group 1)     21Aug13     Declaration Of War     A P O'Brien     £425,325
Friarstown Stud Debutante Stakes (Fillies) (Group 2)     11Aug13     Tapestry     A P O'Brien     £52,846
Ballyroan Stakes (Group 3)     08Aug13     Ernest Hemingway     A P O'Brien     £31,707
Irish Stallion Farms European Breeders Fund Give Thanks Stakes (Group 3) (Fillies)     06Aug13     Venus De Milo     A P O'Brien     £40,955
Invesco Pension Consultants Minstrel Stakes (Group 3)     20Jul13     Darwin     A P O'Brien     £33,293
Silver Flash Stakes (Group 3)     18Jul13     Wonderfully     A P O'Brien     £31,707
Grangecon Stud Stakes (Group 3) (Fillies)     30Jun13     Bye Bye Birdie     A P O'Brien     £31,707
Queen's Vase (In Memory of Sir Henry Cecil) (Group 3)     21Jun13     Leading Light     A P O'Brien     £42,533
Jersey Stakes (Group 3)     19Jun13     Gale Force Ten     A P O'Brien     £42,533
Queen Anne Stakes (British Champions Series) (Group 1)     18Jun13     Declaration Of War     A P O'Brien     £198,485
Investec Coronation Cup (Group 1)     01Jun13     St Nicholas Abbey     A P O'Brien     £198,485
Airlie Stud Gallinule Stakes (Group 3)     26May13     Leading Light     A P O'Brien     £31,707
Tattersalls Irish 2,000 Guineas (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     25May13     Magician     A P O'Brien     £141,463
Derrinstown Stud Derby Trial Stakes (Group 2)     12May13     Battle Of Marengo     A P O'Brien     £52,846
Derrinstown Stud 1,000 Guineas Trial (Group 3)     12May13     Just Pretending     A P O'Brien     £33,028
High Chaparral European Breeders Fund Mooresbridge Stakes (Group 3)     06May13     Camelot     A P O'Brien     £38,313
P.W. McGrath Memorial Ballysax Stakes (Group 3)     14Apr13     Battle Of Marengo     A P O'Brien     £31,707
Dubai Sheema Classic Presented By Longines (Group 1) (Turf)     30Mar13     St Nicholas Abbey     A P O'Brien     £1,840,491
Racing Post Trophy (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     27Oct12     Kingsbarns     A P O'Brien     £122,494
Queen Elizabeth II Stakes Sponsored By Qipco (British Champions Mile) (Group 1)     20Oct12     Excelebration     A P O'Brien     £567,100
Darley Stakes (Group 3)     13Oct12     Mull Of Killough     Jane Chapple-Hyam     £31,191
Diamond Stakes (Group 3)     05Oct12     Declaration Of War     A P O'Brien     £31,146
Juddmonte Beresford Stakes (Group 2)     30Sep12     Battle Of Marengo     A P O'Brien     £51,458
C.L. Weld Park Stakes (Group 3) (Fillies)     30Sep12     Magical Dream     A P O'Brien     £29,792
Irresistible Jewel Blandford Stakes (Group 2) (Fillies & Mares)     09Sep12     Up     A P O'Brien     £54,167
Lanwades Stud Fillies Stakes (Group 3)     26Aug12     Up     A P O'Brien     £32,500
Juddmonte Grand Prix de Paris (Group 1) (3yo Colts & Fillies) (Turf)     14Jul12     Imperial Monarch     A P O'Brien     £285,700
Dubai Duty Free Irish Derby (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     30Jun12     Camelot     A P O'Brien     £604,167
150th Anniversary of Prince of Wales's Stakes (British Champions Series) (Group 1)     20Jun12     So You Think     A P O'Brien     £283,550
Investec Derby (Group 1)     02Jun12     Camelot     A P O'Brien     £751,408
Diamond Jubilee Coronation Cup (Sponsored By Investec) (Group 1)     02Jun12     St Nicholas Abbey     A P O'Brien     £170,130
Tattersalls Gold Cup (Group 1)     27May12     So You Think     A P O'Brien     £108,500
Abu Dhabi Irish 2000 Guineas (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     26May12     Power     A P O'Brien     £145,000
Boodles Diamond Ormonde Stakes (Group 3)     11May12     Memphis Tennessee     A P O'Brien     £39,697
Stobart Barristers Dee Stakes (Group 3) (Colts & Geldings)     11May12     Astrology     A P O'Brien     £31,191
Qipco 2000 Guineas Stakes (204th Running) (British Champions Series) (Group 1) (Colts & Fillies)     05May12     Camelot     A P O'Brien     £213,513
bet365 Classic Trial (Group 3)     28Apr12     Imperial Monarch     A P O'Brien     £31,191
Big Bad Bob Gladness Stakes (Group 3)     22Apr12     Excelebration     A P O'Brien     £32,500
Leopardstown 2,000 Guineas Trial Stakes (Group 3) (Colts & Geldings)     15Apr12     Furner's Green     A P O'Brien     £25,729
Emirates Airline Breeders' Cup Turf (Grade 1) (3yo+) (Turf)     05Nov11     St Nicholas Abbey     A P O'Brien     £1,038,462
JRA Killavullan Stakes (Group 3)     30Oct11     Nephrite     A P O'Brien     £26,616
Racing Post Trophy (Group 1) (Entire Colts & Fillies)     22Oct11     Camelot     A P O'Brien     £131,567
Weatherbys Insurance £300,000 2-Y-O Stakes     08Sep11     Reply     A P O'Brien     £207,294
Moyglare Stud Stakes (Group 1) (Fillies)     28Aug11     Maybe     A P O'Brien     £112,500
Keeneland Debutante Stakes (Group 2) (Fillies)     07Aug11     Maybe     A P O'Brien     £53,233
Irish Stallion Farms European Breeders Fund Give Thanks Stakes (Group 3) (Fillies & Mares)     31Jul11     Pink Symphony     David Wachman     £43,427
Silver Flash Stakes (Group 3) (Fillies)     14Jul11     Maybe     A P O'Brien     £26,616
Abu Dhabi Irish 2,000 Guineas (Entire Colts & Fillies) (Group 1)     21May11     Roderic O'Connor     A P O'Brien     £162,500
Leopardstown 1,000 Guineas Trial Stakes (Group 3) (Fillies)     27Mar11     Empowering     A P O'Brien     £26,616
Desmond Stakes (Group 3)     12Aug10     Beethoven     A P O'Brien     £34,513
Report cryoftruth June 2, 2016 8:59 PM BST
Not sure his weight problems are relevant to his talents.

His dad is the trainer of hundreds of the best bred horses in the world. Look at the recent entries for the Railway stakes. More than half from Aiden.
If any half competent rider had been stable jockey at the time Joseph was, their record would have been better.
I am not sure "barely competent" is that harsh really. There is no doubt surely that his being stable jockey for his father was not influenced with even a faint whiff of merit.
Report Graeme83 June 2, 2016 9:26 PM BST
Doubt Ao'B is the sole participant in the jocky hiring process.
Report Madhu June 2, 2016 10:51 PM BST
In a short career JOB shared the Irish champion apprentice jockeys' title in 2010, Irish Champion Jockey in 2012 with 87 winners, retained his Irish Champion Jockey title in 2013 with 126 winners breaking a 20-year-old record, same number of Derby wins as Frankie. Without weight problems we will never  know what he could have achieved. Magnier was no mug giving him the opportunity as a horseman either. Donnacha O'Brien 2016- 18/106/17% will be champion apprentice and will follow on from his brother for sure.

I remember watching a documentary on Luca Cumani stable years ago and some stable hand said the same about Frankie getting all the luck because of his background and look what he went on to do.
Report TheFear June 2, 2016 10:56 PM BST
Donnacha looks to have more natural talent than JOB.
Report Figgis June 2, 2016 11:00 PM BST
I agree with cryoftruth. I think we're all aware that it's more about the horse than the jockey in the majority of races but for me a great jockey is one who also wins some races that weren't always deserved by the horse alone. I can't recall any of those with JOB but I can recall some races where he didn't do the horse credit. Not that he was the worst around but he certainly wasn't the best and in their position I'd want the best.
Report Try My Best June 3, 2016 1:10 AM BST
Thought JOB did a great job. Can't remember too many **** ups when riding in the big races. Australia in the Irish Champion being the standout. Great rides on Camelot in the Guineas and 2 good uncomplicated rides for his Derby wins as well as a top ride in the breeders Cup on St Nicholas Abbey to name a few. Even the great Kinane had moments he would wish to forget, dropping his whip on Giants Causeway in the BC Classic as well as a couple of poor rides in the Oaks that led to defeat. Spencer's ride in the Arlington which was ridiculous and getting beat on Hawk Wing in the Guineas. All in all a good riding career imo for a lad of his years.
Report unclepuncle June 3, 2016 11:49 AM BST
JOB was fine - not the very best around for sure but perfectly accomplished.
Report cryoftruth June 4, 2016 9:25 AM BST
Joseph was barely competent I still think. However surely its taking the micky to have Donnacha riding in the Derby? And look today. Mr Magnier has a fancy home bred in a 10€ maiden at the Curragh. Presumably because the mighty Donnocha is riding at Epsom his trainer has chosen to put up a crack apprentice on Inteligence Cross.

You'll never guess what.
.

Has Mr Magnier's trainer managed to give a chance to an up and coming star, or just keep his family in business.

Intelligence Cross ridden by Ana O'Brien. Aiden is a great trainer, but making his owners look like dumbos is not a neat long term plan.
Report Spock June 4, 2016 12:21 PM BST
I don't get the dis here - they have all grown up around, season after season, top flight thoroughbreds and probably understand the kinks and attributes of the bloodlines as well as nearly anyone else at Coolmore. They all look to be a credit to their family and the organisation which AOB has helped steer so successfully, over, what 20+ years now...sure, there might have been better operators than JOB riding, but the value he, DOB and AOB continue to add to such an outfit is immeasurable.
Report Try My Best June 4, 2016 12:37 PM BST
Donnacha will ride a Royal Ascot winner imo this year.
Report A_T June 4, 2016 12:50 PM BST
This must have Magnier's blessing surely. It's a case of keeping it in-house - everyone on-message and saying the right things. You can't buy loyalty like that.
Report ReaseHeath June 4, 2016 2:17 PM BST
Donnacha's Derby ride today is part owned by his mum.
Report unclepuncle June 4, 2016 4:49 PM BST
Bet they wish Joseph had been on US Army Ranger - might not have asked the horse to pass the entire field in the last 3 furlongs.Laugh
Report quay_street June 4, 2016 7:54 PM BST
How do you know Moore wasn't riding to instructions from Aidan? The Chester Vase is actually 1m 4.5f. They probably thought he ran out of gas towards the end of that race...
Report A_T June 5, 2016 11:03 AM BST
Chester proved the horse stays 12f. Either their agreed tactics were wrong or Moore misjudged the pace of the race.
Report Meyer Lansky June 6, 2016 2:04 PM BST
If you are as good a jockey as Ryan is  ( or is supposed to be ) you don't need instructions you should be competent enough to work things out for yourself ,all AoB should need to do is give the jockey the lowdown on the horse , ( which Moore should know anyway)
Report impossible123 June 6, 2016 3:44 PM BST
In my opinion these were the contributing factors for the defeat of UAR in the Derby eg:

1) draw (15) preventing UAR getting a better eg middle position like Harzand - Red Verdon suffered the same fate
2)  still inexperienced
3) shuffled back to 2nd last place
4) always between 4 and 6 lengths behind Harzand up to 2f marker from home
5) made up this ground to Harzand in 1.5 f using too much energy, and no more to give
6) Harzand is an out and out stayer 

If Harzand had been withdrawn everyone would be heaping massive accolade to UAR "winning" from so far back. However, I believe if UAR had not been required to go round the outside of every runner bar one in the straight before delivering his challenge he'd probably have won eg inside/rails in a small field. But I'm hopeful UAR will gain revenge over Harzand in the Irish Derby on the same going if Moore could position UAR closer to the front or Harzand before delivering his challenge.

Will UAR go for the St Leger? Very unlikely if he wins the Irish Derby as his target races will be 12f eg The King George & QE2, ARC, etc - nothing less than 12f in my opinion.
Report The Headmaster June 6, 2016 4:04 PM BST
I thought his effort was pretty easy to dissect.  Still green, blew the start, got himself in a bad position and it was game over from there. He did well to finish where he did and I'm a convert.
Report Madhu June 6, 2016 4:15 PM BST
I wonder what the late talented Greville Starkey would have to say on the matter of  US Army Ranger's running? There is no doubt in my mind that other than through inexperience on the horses part, he was never given the opportunity throw his dice truly; for Harzand everything was in his favour and the brilliant jockeymanship of his rider allowed him to shine on the day. I think both horse will prove they are genuinely top-class in time. I feel for Ryan Moore also.
Report Madhu June 6, 2016 5:42 PM BST
Joseph O'Brien lands treble on landmark day

JOSEPH O'BRIEN'S transition to the training ranks got off to a flying start on Monday when he landed a treble from his first six runners.

I guess some people will make similar analogy as to his training ability!
Report cryoftruth June 19, 2016 2:26 PM BST
Another incompetent ride by Donnacha. Took it up far too soon, got Sir Edwin unbalanced, then started thrashing to poor horse with his whip, before allowing his brother's horse up his inside.

You can understand Aiden wanting to do his best for his children. But how do you understand the owners having the p!ss taken out of them so unmercifully? They are being treated like mugs.

I know that Magnier and Tabor are rich beyong dreams, but surely they won't put up with this nepotism much longer.
Report Madhu June 1, 2018 4:42 PM BST
Pretty there!
Report Madhu June 1, 2018 4:43 PM BST
*poor
Report M13 June 3, 2018 12:14 PM BST
Classic Winner. Say no more. LaughLaughLaugh
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