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LoyalHoncho
05 Jul 18 12:12
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Date Joined: 28 May 10
| Topic/replies: 4,145 | Blogger: LoyalHoncho's blog
Try this Soups.  When you're in the know about so-called unfit dogs running - instead of coming on here moaning as if you really care about the welfare of the greyhound itself.
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Report LoyalHoncho July 5, 2018 12:12 PM BST
June 1964

Arguably one of the most infamous moments in greyhound racing history took place in June. Something odd had happened at Dagenham on June 30th during the 4.05pm race that left bookmakers owing millions. The incident that would be labelled as ‘operation sandpaper’ or the ‘Dagenham coup’ hit the headlines around the world and went like this. John Turner a 37 year old Londoner approached a bookmaker Leslie Carey who controlled 20 shops and hatched a plan that was funded by Carey. They selected a race where he felt two greyhounds had no chance of winning and they recruited 170 people who would be paid to help them. Some were tasked to bet the other four greyhounds in the remaining twelve combination bets at off course betting shops. The bets were placed shortly before the race and dividends were paid out at track odds. They would then hog phone lines into the track to stop the off course bookmakers from phoning the track to lay off the bets. The job of the others was to monopolise the 31 tote windows at the Dagenham track, betting over 11,000 times on the two outsiders which in turn would produce massively better odds for the combinations. The result was Buckwheat 2-1 followed by Handsome Lass 9-2, the combination odds of 9,217-1 showed one winning ticket that Turner held but this was repeated over 300 times by his helpers at off course shops. Five bookmaking firms, Ladbrokes, Coral, William Hill, Jack Swift and Arthur Stanley sued Dagenham Stadium for failing to operate their tote properly and Turner for procuring odds by unlawful means. They refused to pay out and waited for the result of legal proceedings.
Report sparrow July 5, 2018 12:25 PM BST
One of our posters will tell you all about this. The forecast paid £987+ for that 2/- ticket.
I was working at the time for Maxie Parker's betting shop in Poland Street central London and will never forget the uproar when the dividend was announced over the blower.
Report sparrow July 5, 2018 1:15 PM BST
Why are you both talking about welfare on a thread entitled "The Dagenham Coup" ?
Report LoyalHoncho July 5, 2018 3:47 PM BST
You are a total f ucking moron.  1st and 3rd last two runs and a recent best time!  Suffers a serious injury, clearly in running today and, as usual you go off on your usual bile.
No more needs to be said.
Total f ucking moron.
Report dog77 July 5, 2018 3:51 PM BST

Jul 5, 2018 -- 3:47PM, LoyalHoncho wrote:


You are a total f ucking moron.  1st and 3rd last two runs and a recent best time!  Suffers a serious injury, clearly in running today and, as usual you go off on your usual bile.No more needs to be said.Total f ucking moron.


I agree, i saw the race and the bitch was going well until the injury occurred. Totally out of order calling her a cripple.

Report Winja July 5, 2018 4:05 PM BST
hang on…...i know it sounds like im just agreeing with superjudge but the bitch has been lame for months......if it wasnt for the new A9 and A10 grades she would not grade on.....agree its not nice calling dogs cripples but today was an accumulation of running when not sound leading to a worse injury......the RM is as much to blame as the trainer......
Report dog77 July 5, 2018 4:12 PM BST
You always agree with Superjudge. You are both wrong. The bitch had been off lame but came back and won her first race and in a time well inside grading time. This constant slagging off of certain Crayford Trainers does this sport no good at all. Keyboard punters
Report superjudge July 5, 2018 5:07 PM BST
lets just say she has been very sore on the bends for months.and your right honcho no more needs to be said.
Report dog77 July 5, 2018 5:11 PM BST
' sore on the bends '  LMAO Ron Mills you are not !!!
Report superjudge July 5, 2018 5:17 PM BST
i tell you what 77 that bitch is running the bends like a dream. hows that.
Report sparrow July 5, 2018 5:22 PM BST
The Dagenham Coup was an incident that took place at Dagenham Greyhound Stadium on 30 June 1964.

The history of Dagenham Greyhound Stadium is dominated by one the most infamous moments in greyhound racing history that was given the name 'The Dagenham Coup' or 'Operation Sandpaper', on 30 June 1964 the 4.05pm race that left bookmakers owing huge sums of money and the news hit the headlines around the world.[1][2]

Contents
1 The plan
2 The action
3 The result
4 Court case
5 Postscript
6 References
The plan
Betting off course in betting shops became legal in May 1961 following the introduction of the Betting and Gaming Act 1960; in 1964 John Turner, a 37 year old Londoner, approached a bookmaker called Leslie Carey, who controlled twenty betting shops, and the pair hatched a plan that was funded by Carey. They selected a race, in which in Turner's opinion two of the greyhounds had no chance of winning, and then they recruited 170 people in three groups, who would be paid to assist them.[3]

The action
The first group of helpers were tasked to place bets on the other four greyhounds in the remaining twelve combination bets at off course betting shops, the bets were placed shortly before the race got underway and crucially dividends (in 1964) would be paid out at the tracks odds. The second set of helpers blocked phone lines into the track to stop the off course bookmakers from phoning the track to lay off the bets.[4]

The third group of helpers attended the Dagenham track and monopolised the 31 tote windows throughout the stadium, they placed over 11,000 bets on the two outsiders (the greyhounds that Turner believed had no chance), which in turn produced massively better odds for the other four greyhounds and the combinations that had been placed in the betting shops.[4]

The result
The result went, as Turner had expected, with the two greyhounds that Turner had discounted duly finishing down the field, the winner was a greyhound called Buckwheat, who won easily in 48.78 secs from Handsome Lass.[5] Turner and Carey had to pay the 170 helpers and had lost money on 11,000 tote bets but this was all as planned, because the track dividends showed the combination odds of 9,217-1. Turner had one winning tote ticket worth £2,000 but his helpers had placed the same combination bet 300 times in the betting shops so therefore creating 300 tickets at odds of 9,217-1 and netting Turner and Carey £600,000 (equivalent to about £11 million in 2015).[6]

Court case
Five bookmaking firms, Ladbrokes, Coral, William Hill, Jack Swift and Arthur Stanley sued Dagenham Stadium for failing to operate their tote properly and Turner for procuring odds by unlawful means. They refused to pay out and waited for the result of legal proceedings.[3]

The court case dragged on from 1964 until 1966 before the courts and Mr Justice Paull finally settled on a ruling.[7][8][9][10][11][12][13]

The legal costs incurred by Romford Stadium Ltd (owners of Dagenham) would be paid by the off course bookmakers.
Turner’s one ticket worth £2,000 should be paid by Dagenham Stadium.
The off course bookmakers should return the stake money but should consider token payments to any punters that had bet the combination outside of the area (in other words, unknowing punters that had nothing to do with the incident).
Postscript
Turner endeavoured to collect the money that he felt he was owed (£600,000) because he felt that it was his racing knowledge that had allowed him to discount two greyhounds in the race but all he could do was write to the courts asking them not to renew the bookmakers licences due to welshing (oath-breaking). Within the racing industry it is considered extremely wrong if a party refuses to honour their bet (stake or winnings).

Romford Stadium Ltd sold their controlling interest in the Dagenham greyhound track for £185,000, and the track was closed in 1965
Report sparrow July 5, 2018 5:27 PM BST
The Rochester Coup
1978 In April 1978 Jim Pocknell owner of ‘Viola Coaches’ of Forest Hill, London. Thought that a greyhound race called the ‘Long and Short Trip Stakes’ would tie in nicely with his firm’s image of long and short coach trips. So he put up £200 sponsorship, and the race was advertised in the NGRC Calendar but failed to fill.

Kevin Barry the racing manager at Rochester, re advertised the races for May 27 1978, for 12 greyhounds and 2 reserves @ £10, with two heats over 277 metres, with the first three going forward to the final over 901 metres, on the same night.

The winner would pick up £150 plus Trophy worth £20, second to receive £50. Unbeknown to Jim Pocknell and Kevin Barry, one of the biggest betting coups this century was about to unfold. At the time of closing, the race was under-subscribed with only three outside entries, the other nine were to be local trained Rochester runners.

Owner/trainer Jack Purvis entered two greyhounds he had bought from Ireland Leysdown Pleasure (Ramdeen Stuart – Rathsaker Ruby, Jun 75) and Leysdown Fun, also a fawn dog by Lively Band out of Lispopple Girl.

Both had winning form in Ireland over sprint distances, under their old racing names. In January of the same year, Pleasure, previously called Rathsaker Stuart, had won a 300 yard race at Newbridge within 10 spots of the track record. Whilst Leysdown Fun, previously called Band Major, had won a 360 sales trial at Shelbourne Park in the fastest of the session.

But with moderate to poor trial times at Rye House (484 metres) and Ipswich (437 metres) their true capabilities were hidden from the vast majority of the general public at Rochester on that May evening. Purvis was himself an interesting character.

Originally a bookie, he had been told he could not continue in that occupation and be granted a trainer’s licence. He gave up his betting shop in Leysdown in Kent and was contracted to Rochester for a period. He later moved onto Maidstone and was making his first excursion black to his old track on that May evening.

Leysdown Pleasure drifted from 8-1 to 33-1 in his heat, and flew home three and a half lengths clear of the well backed odds 8-11 shot Top Fancy.

The winner clocked a time of 17.41 for the 277 metres, and Leysdown Fun was also an all the way winner by three and three quarters lengths in a time of 17.61.

The track record at the time was 17.05. In the final over 901 metres later in the programme, Leysdown Fun was withdrawn lame. The race went to 2-1 chance Andona, trained by Tony Dennis. She beat favourite No Darkie by three lengths. There was a further 15 length gap to the fourth dog with Leysdown Pleasure finishing tailed off last.

No one at the track suspected anything wrong, even Rochester’s starting price reporter Mervyn Harrison who said: “There was no money for Leysdown Pleasure in the first heat, bar the odd pound and his price drifted from 8s to 33s.

And in the second heat Leysdown Fun was about fours throughout the betting, and again there was no big money at the course for him.”

When news broke of the coup the following Monday, it was estimated that between £300,000 and £400,000 had been won off course in systematically placed doubles and trebles, with the two dogs at Rochester and others at Romford and Walthamstow.

Jack Purvis was apparently amazed at what had happened.

He said: “I only had a £10 win double on my two, and was flabbergasted to see Leysdown Pleasure go off at 33s. 4-1 about Leysdown Fun seemed about the right price.”

BOLA advised their members not to pay pending inquiries into the matter. But this is where the coup takes a twist. Although Corals “lost” £25,000, Victoria/Sporting Club £25,000 and Ladbrokes £50,000, it seems that somebody among the big four bookies know something.

Brian Ingamells, a bookmaker with a chain of shops in the Leicester area (and a former sponsor of the Midlands Grand Prix at Leicester) noted that a number of bets were struck in his shops by “a manager from one of the big four”.

He said “I think it snow-balled around the country, once someone in the know revealed that Leysdown Pleasure and Fun were very good sprinters back in Ireland.

Ingamells also claimed that one of the Rochester bookies deliberately pushed out the price of Leysdown Pleasure to 33s. The NGRC held their own inquiry, and the result was published in the calendar of 21st June 1978.

It said “Evidence submitted from the Rochester stewards and the local stipendiary steward that there was no breach of the rules of racing.”

Kevin Barry, reflecting on the initial poor response to the event said later: “… had there been more interest from outside it is doubtful that I would have selected Jack’s dogs because of their poor trial form.”

Following the coup, the NGRC introduced new rules prohibiting the sprint/ marathon format being staged again without the longer distance being run first. Although no rules had been broken. BOLA eventually advised their numbers not to pay out and only a few independents did.

Rumours circulated that a well known private trainer had been closely involved in the coup. For a time, there was a series of ‘gluings’ of betting shop doors of the major chains, said to be in connection with the coup, though nobody was every caught.

The only major gains from the most betting coup of the last 30 years were for the annals of greyhound folklore.
Report dog77 July 5, 2018 5:28 PM BST
tell u what Superjudge if u know any low grader at Crayford that runs all the bends like a dream, then they would not be low graders. They are dodges, thinkers, dogs who are not that keen on a stuffed furry animal. If u back them, then thats your lookout, but without them there would be no more greyhound racing for us to bet on as The RM could not grade a card. Subject closed.
Report Winja July 5, 2018 6:01 PM BST
sparrow this was not a nostalgia thread even though your trying...…..dog77 you must be the owner or associated with the kennel so apologies if i have touched a nerve......i only agree with superjudge when he is right........you probably do not realise the constraint that has been applied against certain trainers who.....in my opinion are more like farmers looking after livestock than trainers dealing with athletic animals who need to be maintained as athletes...….when you can see dogs easing due to lameness its not nice and when it happens week after week you have to ask yourself if the trainer is capable of seeing the same thing and if they are why are they not doing something about it......that is what this thread has become about......voicing opinions......
Report dog77 July 5, 2018 6:58 PM BST
No apology needed from you, but Superjudge has historically libeled a handful of Crayford trainers and has no hands on idea about racing greyhounds other than betting on them. His idea of dozens of crippled dogs ( his word - crippled ) is untrue as the vets would not allow them to run. The difference in listening to his opinion and then that of Privatehire who has worked with greyhounds is staggeringly different.
Report superjudge July 5, 2018 7:39 PM BST
77 read the droopys clusters thread and i think you will find your wrong about privatehire.he has his dogs with a proper trainer at crayford and if one of her greyhounds show a bit of soreness she has them of for 2 weeks.paul thompsett was the same when he was there.
Report dr . atkins July 5, 2018 8:20 PM BST
DOG77.. so dogs that ease going into the bends are not lame most do it because they have got knocked over or badly crowded over a period of time during their career but the trainers still run them ? what does not look good are dogs that are old running in a9 and a10 like bimbam priscilla sept 13 got beat 10,9,16,9,6,9,13,3,and 10 today how can you or anybody defend that trainer should be ashamed of himself ps also trains droopys clusters coincidence i think not and one last point do crayford publicise how many dogs they put down ?
Report superjudge July 5, 2018 8:45 PM BST
dr 77 must be right because the vet would not let them run Laughtrouble is dr you are not aloud to say it as it is anymore.
Report dr . atkins July 5, 2018 9:31 PM BST
i been going and betting at romford for 30 years. superjudge you have been punting at crayford for years we do it for a living and people say you don't know nothing about greyhounds or you moan because you bet them we see more than the trainers would ever see we might not be hands on but we watch everyrace more than once and put our money down more than any trainer would
Report irishone July 5, 2018 9:49 PM BST
Great thread

Proper gamblers

No woodmanchester bolleaux
Report superjudge July 5, 2018 10:41 PM BST
spot on dr. cant get two bob on anywhere with any firm much like yourself butwe aint got a scooby what we are looking at.
Report sparrow July 5, 2018 10:53 PM BST
Winja    05 Jul 18 18:01 
sparrow this was not a nostalgia thread even though your trying




Why may I ask is it then entitled "The Dagenham Coup"?
Can none of you manage to word the thread properly.
Try Greyhound Welfare for example,
Report irishone July 6, 2018 7:41 AM BST
Funny how deception is portrayed in the media.
The sport continues to cut off its own nose to spite its face.
Penetration by greed, lack of transparency and deception whether it be the gbgb , bookmakers or coup masters is killing the game.
Report casemoney July 8, 2018 3:24 AM BST
Give it 20 years there will be very few greyhounds left in the World ...Sad

15 years will be an endagered breed Sad


Totally agree with Sparrow a very strange heading ,infact I thought it was an old thread had been brought Back .
Report Winja July 8, 2018 10:50 AM BST
will be the opposite surely case.....irish and british breeders must be reacting to the demand for dogs...….the original concern when the suicide schedules were announced were what is going to happen to all these dogs when the model fails.....
Report sparrow July 8, 2018 11:25 AM BST
Winja    05 Jul 18 18:01 
sparrow this was not a nostalgia thread even though your trying




Why may I ask is it then entitled "The Dagenham Coup"?
Can none of you manage to word the thread properly.
Try Greyhound Welfare for example,
Report Winja July 8, 2018 12:02 PM BST
sparrow i never started it mate.....loyal has a beef with superjudge and used this thread as a blunt instrument to continue the row......i got involved and saw where it was going hence my post.....
Report sparrow July 8, 2018 12:26 PM BST
That's as maybe winja,  but you decided to pull me up on my proper contribution to a "Dagenham" thread.
Anyone talking about anything other than nostalgia are therefore the ones in the wrong.
Report Winja July 8, 2018 12:32 PM BST
i would not say it was a pull up....more a suggestion that it was going in a different direction.....its like that elvis song lonesome tonight when he says....do you look at your bald heads and wish you had hair....then cant stop laughing but the backing singers keep going...….
Report sparrow July 8, 2018 1:38 PM BST
Don't be ridiculous winja.  You are saying that because the conversation was going off in a "different direction" then I should have realised that and stop posting about Dagenham. If anyone had to complain then it certainly shouldn't have been you.
Report Winja July 8, 2018 4:22 PM BST
feck me sparrow don't say i am now in a row with you......the clue was in the wording loyal put in his opening post.....it was asking for a response that had nothing to do with the dagenham coup.........you can post what you like when you like....i was just saying that you were like the professional backing singers going in one direction when all the coming posts......in my opinion......were going to be about something else....that's all that was mate.....
Report Winja July 8, 2018 4:24 PM BST
perhaps i should have originally said....was never going to be a nostalgia thread......
Report sparrow July 8, 2018 6:48 PM BST
Perhaps you shouldn't have commented on me when I was the only sticking to the subject. The OP was bang out of order with this posting and he knows it only too well.
Report Winja July 8, 2018 7:03 PM BST
perhaps your right......as i said nothing in it but a sarcastic remark from me......i never had you down as a sensitive soul sparrow.....all those years of watching west ham must have taken the edge off...….
Report sparrow July 8, 2018 7:59 PM BST
It's not a case of being sensitive winja but the fact that I was posting something to do with the subject and others were talking about a completely different subject.
It was certainly the OP to blame and what he was playing at I have no idea and he ought to know better.
No offence taken winja just an idiotic way to debate an important subject such as Greyhound Welfare.
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