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bobovieri
21 Feb 13 10:00
Joined:
Date Joined: 13 Jul 08
| Topic/replies: 9,414 | Blogger: bobovieri's blog
I'm pretty sucesfull and month by month I can make good profit here.

But, I wanna know some experience from people who are here full time, betfair professionals.

1. How your life is?
2. Minus and plus of that kind of life (I don't think about money)
3. Is harder to bet when You know that betfair is only way to make a money?


Thanks in advance...
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Report catfloppo October 22, 2014 9:59 PM BST
Good point, gin.  So it's a double whammy for those still complaining, not only are they paying pc but they are also putting off their potential customers!
Report Darlo Bantam October 22, 2014 11:20 PM BST
It would help if Betfair were totally up front and transparent about premium charges. But they're simply not.

* Nowhere can you find any mention of premium charge on the "my account" section of the website
* You have to hunt for details of Premium charges in the rules/help section
* When you do find the help, the wording is ridiculously complicated
* Your PC statement can be found on a link you have to hunt for on the forum or via google, and has a separate address than any other Betfair address
* The PC is just a jumble of numbers which you can't breakdown or delve into further.

I'm not totally averse to PC, but I think the way it's done leaves an awful lot to be desired.
Report Coachbuster October 23, 2014 2:01 PM BST
agree darlo - i think the way it has been handled and implemented leaves a worst taste than the charge itself .

the lack of a refund on losing weeks hacks me off more than anything -  theft !
Report PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH October 23, 2014 7:14 PM BST
Yes, but we still keep paying p/c, but the landscape has changed quite significantly in the last year or so, the reality is, you now have very good alternatives. Betfair is now a sports book operator that runs an exchange Crazy
Report carvoeiro October 23, 2014 9:54 PM BST
The last few points a very relevant.
Surely MOST people on here won't EVER pay the PC.
Most would be "in real terms"  happy (?) to be in the situation of paying  the PC, but then not liking if they actually had to.

It is about perception and the way it is handled by BF.

Hello Coach, not spoken in a while, we had a chat a couple of years ago about how many high scoring games Villareal appear to be involved in. Again tonight,although I didn't get involved, went 3-0/3-1/AU (in running) on Spurs .Hope all is well with you.
Report Coachbuster October 24, 2014 1:06 AM BST
Ahh - hello mate -  i think you took part in the music  quizzes around '09 time as well  Happy

I  had a few small bets on the Spurs game as it goes   - things appear picking up now after a dreadful few weeks,have you noticed the markets slightly busier of late ,or is it just me thinking that ?   - glad to see you're surviving ,not too many of the old names about .
Report KIMBLE October 24, 2014 5:20 AM BST
back to a previous point, what do the FT say their job is if asked in a social situation. im fed up trying to explain this and need a reasonable (and believable) job title so that when this happens they just go 'oh, ok, good' and not 'Bull no one can do that, ur gonna go broke"

i mean if u said u were FT on ebay, its the same thing, trading!
Report no moves October 24, 2014 9:56 AM BST
"The last few points a very relevant.
Surely MOST people on here won't EVER pay the PC.
Most would be "in real terms"  happy (?) to be in the situation of paying  the PC, but then not liking if they actually had to.

It is about perception and the way it is handled by BF."



Only a very select band on here will ever make a sustained profit but if the exchange deducts the winnings from any successful player then Betfair  will have removed the incentive to bet, not just for the people who are paying this tax at present but for everybody who aspires whoever unrealistically to be successful, which may may well be all of us.
Report Wesdag October 24, 2014 1:33 PM BST
Kimble,

I usually say I'm a trader or day trader that specialises in sports, just like the stock market or forex.
Report PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH October 24, 2014 2:34 PM BST
If you are new to trading then betfair is the best place to come as it is by far the best trading platform out there. Thereafter if you trade or bet to win, which should be the case, then there is zero retention, in that no real long term customer loyalty programme other than the betfair commission decay holiday, which is meaningless.

So you have now been trading for a few months and making a small profit, then you are contacted saying you have to pay 20% tax on your winnings on a weekly basis, but if you lose then no rebate. As a consequence you leave and thank betfair for the training and trade elsewhere at around 5% on wining bets only.

P/C payers, i would certainly say is being paid by long term existing customers, who in the main trade of quick pictures. So betfair for a living if you are starting out then probably not Happy
Report catfloppo October 24, 2014 8:51 PM BST
No moves, not all winning strategies qualify for pc
Report catfloppo October 24, 2014 8:54 PM BST
I say professional gambler and then usually end up explaining how it's not really what they think!
Report KIMBLE October 25, 2014 12:52 AM BST
risk management seems more apt in my case
Report Rob_The_Bantam November 4, 2014 11:12 AM GMT
Say accountant.  Nobody will want to know any more, surely.

Doing this full time also leads to some thrilling conversations with the likes of US Immigration.  Retired won't be accepted readily if you don't look old enough.  Professional gambler runs the risk of a full body cavity search.  Independent means is too vague.  Unemployed is, bizarrely, the safest answer.
Report racingguru November 4, 2014 12:43 PM GMT
Rob - Never mention betting when it comes to US Immigration. Cocaine dealer might be a better profession to list than gambler when it comes to border crossings. Agree that unemployed is safe.
Report bobovieri January 2, 2015 7:32 AM GMT
After first professional year, it's time to answer on my own questions


1. How your life is?

Better than I could ever imagine! I have money and time. I can do whatever I want, buy many things... all at all, my life is really great at the moment. Year ago, I made best decision of my life, when I quit job and became professional.


2. Minus and plus of that kind of life (I don't think about money)


Only one minus - During bad period (about 40 days) I was very nervous and though "regular job and empty head is not so bad" Laugh

plus - So many things, but one is most important. I spend 60 days on vacation and in the middle of September, during working day, I'd been with my wife and kid at the beach. Nobody's there, just me, my wife and my daughter. Priceless guys! That was a moment which I enjoyed most, when I realize that my life is a dream. No, bosses, no early morning stress, my life is really - "my".


3. Is harder to bet when You know that betfair is only way to make a money?


You got the answers on this question many times before. When your bank is big enough, no stress at all.




So... With one year pro experience, I'm gone try to help people who are now where I'd been year ago.

If You are SURE that You are good enough, quit job, living from betfair is a dream. But, must be good, must have few strategies, must be sure that You know about betfair more than 90 % people here.

Find balance between betfair and social life. Even millions means nothing, if You don't have social life. Freedom is most important, but for freedom You must be good enough to make money in few hours.

If anybody need some help, I'm here. And yes... Thank You all who helped me year ago and made me brave to quit my job.
Report no moves January 4, 2015 12:48 AM GMT
" When your bank is big enough, no stress at all".


Bobovier........how big is your bank?


How much did you lose in that 40 days?
Report bobovieri January 4, 2015 10:48 AM GMT
My bank is flexible. Don't have much on account, but if I find great opportunity, in few seconds I can deposit solid money.

Lost average car.
Report no moves January 4, 2015 11:38 AM GMT
1)[i"]My bank is flexible. Don't have much on account, but if I find great opportunity, in few seconds I can deposit solid money".

2)" When your bank is big enough, no stress at all".[/i]


I don't know if the two statements seem totally compatable, of course you may have some sort of super bot idea which doesn't need much money because its almost no lose, but on the face of it you don't appear to have a large bank which you emphasize in the text is needed for stress free gambling.


"Lost average car".

There is no actual figure (your reluctance to give a figure would suggest this was a painful amount)but for arguments sake say £12,000 to £15,000. Its food for thought if anybody else is embarking on this idea how would you feel if in a 40 day period you lost that amount?
Report Westender January 4, 2015 3:59 PM GMT
With the exception of a few super Bot users, the only winner on here is Betfair PLC

At least 95% of people lose and nearly all of the 5% winners lose long term with the huge premium charges.

There are not very many on here who can even make the minimum wage per hour spent on here.

The forum always has a few posters who suggest otherwise but 99% of those full of bull.
Report no moves January 4, 2015 11:59 PM GMT
Westender.........my account for the three months stands at + £7.98, does this show its all possible on here?Crazy


Before Betfair seize upon my post as great promotion for them I've been on here for about ten years and my three months total nearly always reads......£200-£250 in the red
Report no moves January 5, 2015 12:04 AM GMT
I win on poker (though strangely never on Betfair poker) around £50 average a week last year.


Its my opinion if you've got a reasonable knowledge on odds its easier making money playing poker than on here.
Report bobovieri January 5, 2015 9:52 AM GMT
With netteler or similar sites, You can deposit money in few seconds, that's the reason why I told You my bank is flexible. Yes, when I lost "average car" money I didn't have to worry about how to pay bills, food and some other stuffs, so I was very angry and nervous, but without big stress.


Westender, yes,it's not possible for many people, but for some betfair is a dream. Like I said before, You must know about betfair much more than other people. It's possible, now it's up to You to believe me or think that I'm a liar.
Report stu January 5, 2015 2:51 PM GMT
Of course it's possible - and many that would prove that would never dream of posting on the forum also.
Report Westender January 5, 2015 3:07 PM GMT
How many on here regularly make at least the minimum wage per hour spent on Betfair?

That is after deduction of all Betfair Fees including Premium Charges

Answer - very few.
Report pablo-fanque January 5, 2015 3:12 PM GMT
it's a hobby for alot of people westender . most people don't expect to make a living from a hobby
Report Westender January 5, 2015 7:07 PM GMT
Read the thread title mate Laugh

They would be better off saving up their losses and having a go at a nice hooker. Laugh
Report pablo-fanque January 5, 2015 7:46 PM GMT
That is after deduction of all Betfair Fees including Premium Charges

Answer - very few


so, you are saying that the people that are full time on here and paying PC , make less than the minimum wage per hour for there time and effort .

what makes you say this , do you have any facts and figures or are you just guessing ?
Report no moves January 5, 2015 8:51 PM GMT
during working day, I'd been with my wife and kid at the beach. Nobody's there, just me, my wife and my daughter. Priceless guys! That was a moment which I enjoyed most, when I realize that my life is a dream.
Report no moves January 5, 2015 9:13 PM GMT
" When your bank is big enough, no stress at all"
First statement

"Lost average car".

There is no actual figure (your reluctance to give a figure would suggest this was a painful amount)but for arguments sake say £12,000 to £15,000."


second statement discussing how much lost during worst period



"With netteler or similar sites, You can deposit money in few seconds, that's the reason why I told You my bank is flexible. Yes, when I lost "average car" money I didn't have to worry about how to pay bills, food and some other stuffs, so I was very angry and nervous, but without big stress"

third statement discussing the fact £12-15,000 wasn't such a devestating loss in reality

"So many things, but one is most important. I spend 60 days on vacation and in the middle of September, during working day, I'd been with my wife and kid at the beach. Nobody's there, just me, my wife and my daughter. Priceless guys! That was a moment which I enjoyed most, when I realize that my life is a dream. No, bosses, no early morning stress, my life is really" -

The last paragraph paints a picture of a man who enjoys the simple pleasures in life with his family,but the loss of £12-15,000 seems to be absorved by you rather naunchanetly previously in the text suggesting you must have a huge bank balance in order to play comfortably at this level.  If you have £100,000 to play with weren't these options of simple pleasures with your family  already open to you?
Report no moves January 5, 2015 9:29 PM GMT
First statement

When your bank is big enough, no stress at all"


second statement discussing how much lost during worst period


"Lost average car".
There is no actual figure (your reluctance to give a figure would suggest this was a painful amount)but for arguments sake say £12,000 to £15,000."





third statement discussing the fact £12-15,000 wasn't such a devestating loss in reality


"With netteler or similar sites, You can deposit money in few seconds, that's the reason why I told You my bank is flexible. Yes, when I lost "average car" money I didn't have to worry about how to pay bills, food and some other stuffs, so I was very angry and nervous, but without big stress"

The last paragraph paints a picture of a man who enjoys the simple pleasures in life with his family,but the loss of £12-15,000 seems to be absorved by you rather naunchanetly previously in the text suggesting you must have a huge bank balance in order to play comfortably at this level.  If you have £100,000 to play with weren't these options of simple pleasures with your family  already open to you?



"So many things, but one is most important. I spend 60 days on vacation and in the middle of September, during working day, I'd been with my wife and kid at the beach. Nobody's there, just me, my wife and my daughter. Priceless guys! That was a moment which I enjoyed most, when I realize that my life is a dream. No, bosses, no early morning stress, my life is really" -
Report Westender January 6, 2015 11:13 AM GMT
The vast majority of full timers left because they could not earn the minimum wage after premium charges.

Clear to see in the high falls in liquidity over the past 3-5 years.

For those who say it can be done - let me know how many people on here make the minimum wage per hour spent on Betfair.

Betfair PLC is the big winner on here.
Report DFCIRONMAN January 6, 2015 12:29 PM GMT
Are you a bookie WE ?Devil
Report Westender January 6, 2015 12:43 PM GMT
Just realistic mate.
Report pablo-fanque January 6, 2015 12:54 PM GMT
i doubt that the vast majority of people paying 20% pc have left .

i doubt that the vast majority of 40-60 %ers have left either , maybe a few have , but no way the majority
Report Westender January 6, 2015 1:22 PM GMT
Explain the relentless decline in liquidity!!!!!

This place is dead for most of the football in-play markets.
Report Westender January 6, 2015 1:26 PM GMT
Betfair taxes (premium charges) are the most unfair as there is no turning the counter back to zero at the start of a tax year.

The taxes are between 22.5% and 62.5% based on historical gains.

Who on earth is going to bother when 5% commission is already high enough?

Only a few super Bot users and other very clever people can make it pay above the minimum wage per hour spent on Betfair
Report Westender January 6, 2015 1:30 PM GMT
Imagine struggling to make the minimum wage then Betfair clobber people with their huge taxes immediately without any allowances. Laugh

For 99.99% of Betfair customers, the reality is:

It don't pay
It never will pay
Spend your money enjoying your day

The dream died when it became when Betfair was taken over by Paddy Power Mgt and turned into a bookmaker. Cry
Report pablo-fanque January 6, 2015 1:31 PM GMT
its all been explained on the " liquidity in decline " thread .

i am just pointing out that it is highly unlikely that the majority of 20% pc payers have left .

40 hour a week on minimum wage after tax is £210 a week take home

i doubt that the people paying 20% pc are not earning £210 or more a week for 40 hours work

do you ?
Report Westender January 6, 2015 5:16 PM GMT
What I was stating is that there is not many full timers left on here.

Check out the football markets during the day and the £2 Bot is flashing away without any bites.
Report bobovieri January 7, 2015 9:41 AM GMT
PC is big ****, I'm sick every Wednesday, but You have to pay 20 % on profit in most jobs. Like I said before, You have to know about betfair more than 95% other users. I mean about maths, not about injuries, team form, home-away record and useless things like this. In that case, less liquidity is not big problem, You will always get opportunity to make some money.
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 10, 2015 9:27 AM GMT
I personally believe going 'full time' on BF is not the best solution - better to have some form of income (preferably home work or part time) and supplement it with BF/betting/trading money.

Why would you take on a part time job that earns much less than you could on Betfair/wherever else during the same hours?  Very few people work for the thrill of it.  Life's too short; make what you can while you can and enjoy life. 

In an ideal world, you'd have a part time job that required no time and effort and that'd help with getting a mortgage etc, but the reality is that if you're then earning, say, 50k a year less because of the part time job, it's damaging your ability to do the things that you want to do in life, as you have less money with which to do them.
Report ZEALOT January 10, 2015 12:21 PM GMT
working is an obstacle in my life - out of the house for 12 hours Monday to Friday is WRONG .
Report Coachbuster January 10, 2015 4:07 PM GMT
pablo-fanque 06 Jan 15 13:31 Joined: 22 Oct 14 | Topic/replies: 403 | Blogger: pablo-fanque's blog
its all been explained on the " liquidity in decline " thread .

i am just pointing out that it is highly unlikely that the majority of 20% pc payers have left .

40 hour a week on minimum wage after tax is £210 a week take home

i doubt that the people paying 20% pc are not earning £210 or more a week for 40 hours work

do you ?
____________

i'll stick my neck out and say that most on the 20% tarrif/band will be making even less than 200 /week pablo
Report stu January 10, 2015 4:27 PM GMT
Rob_The_Bantam 10 Jan 15 09:27

Why would you take on a part time job that earns much less than you could on Betfair/wherever else during the same hours?  Very few people work for the thrill of it.  Life's too short; make what you can while you can and enjoy life. 

In an ideal world, you'd have a part time job that required no time and effort and that'd help with getting a mortgage etc, but the reality is that if you're then earning, say, 50k a year less because of the part time job, it's damaging your ability to do the things that you want to do in life, as you have less money with which to do them.


If you could earn huge amounts, and do it reliably, then of course just playing BF would be the best option. However, the security of steady income to support BF money would be a reality for most in my guess. To cover those periods when the betting/trading gods turn against you.
Report ZEALOT January 11, 2015 2:28 PM GMT
COACH - £200 PER WEEK ????

ABSOLUTE BULL LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report ZEALOT January 11, 2015 2:29 PM GMT
WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO WARN OFF - WHAT IS YOUR AIM ?
Report freddiewilliams January 11, 2015 2:46 PM GMT
crazy...coach
Report Coachbuster January 11, 2015 3:42 PM GMT
why crazy ?

most of the premium payers in the 20-% band only had to make around 8- 10k in the first place - which wasn't a great deal back in '08 when winning was easier .

Most ground to a halt .

As it got harder those winners went  3 ways .

Give up and go back to work .
Continue at a harder rate and end up chasing  probably to lose everything - or like myself ,continue at a slower rate and make less ,betting only when good opportunities arise .
Report Darlo Bantam January 11, 2015 10:37 PM GMT
What is crazy, is that the figures you need to attain to pay PC have never changed, so more and more people get there every year.
Report Coachbuster January 11, 2015 10:50 PM GMT
indeedy - that too Darlo


and a lot of them aren't all making 200 a week

£199 p/ week is over 10k in the first year    - so that PC sorted for a kick off.
Report Coachbuster January 11, 2015 10:52 PM GMT
you could have  be making £30 per week no less, and never  more than that and be still paying premium charges
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 12, 2015 9:46 AM GMT
If you could earn huge amounts, and do it reliably, then of course just playing BF would be the best option. However, the security of steady income to support BF money would be a reality for most in my guess. To cover those periods when the betting/trading gods turn against you.

But anyone considering doing this full time must be earning money reliably and regularly, otherwise it wouldn't be a consideration.  Any situation where the betting gods turn against you would be catered for by a staking plan to accommodate the inevitable bad runs, wouldn't it?  It's just simple variance.  If you're right on average more than you're wrong, you can stand the losing streaks if your staking is correct.

The part time job isn't needed.  If you're good enough, you're good enough.  If you're not good enough, the sharks will soon take you to the cleaners and you'll never get as far as thinking about going full time.
Report stu January 12, 2015 10:41 AM GMT
Can you not be 'good enough' to make some of your income, without being good enough to make all of it?

I think that's probably true for me.
Report stu January 12, 2015 10:41 AM GMT
Also depends on initial available funds to use?
Report bobovieri January 12, 2015 11:24 AM GMT
Coach, 200 per week? 8k-10k per year?????? Man, We are talking about professionals! Many of them made 8k-10k per month!
Report JML January 12, 2015 5:37 PM GMT
bobovieri--being on 20% does in no way equate to being professional and those earning £9K per month are not on 20%.

I agree with Coach in that over 50% of those in the 20% band
will be making less than £10K pa.

I'm on 40% and will need a lot of luck to make £10K on Betfair
this year.
Report ZEALOT January 12, 2015 7:25 PM GMT
You're on 40%  and only make 10k a year

Why can't you do your stuff with bet duck - ??
Report Coachbuster January 12, 2015 8:23 PM GMT
Coach, 200 per week? 8k-10k per year?????? Man, We are talking about professionals! Many of them made 8k-10k per month!
_____________
Not many will unless you live in fairyland . Most pros don't earn THAT much .  There is a lot of variation in gambling ,which means one month 10k the next month ? maybe a loss !

Anyway , they will be on the much higher 40% plus charge .

We were talking about 20% though ,and most 20%ers earn far less than 8k a year .
Report Coachbuster January 12, 2015 8:24 PM GMT
thank you JML btw Happy
Report Westender January 13, 2015 1:03 AM GMT
Not many make the minimum wage per hour spent on Betfair since the premium charges were introduced.

That is why liquidity has declined month by month as people can guarantee making the same money without any risk in mundane jobs such as cleaning toilets or standing on the street with signs advertising food outlets etc

That is why the Exchange is dying - you cannot tax people 222.5% plus on every pound earned in the year without people reaching a tipping point and spending their time and money outside Betfair.
Report bobovieri January 13, 2015 7:31 AM GMT
OK, maybe You are right. But I can't see a point of professional betting if somebody made 8-10k. Almost everybody can make this money in some job without much stress. Betfair is usually stressful
Report bobovieri January 13, 2015 7:36 AM GMT
JML, if You are at 40%, You already made at least 250k pounds, so muc more than 10k per year. OK, I understand, with 40% PC betfair is probably - mission impossible.
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 13, 2015 9:09 AM GMT
Can you not be 'good enough' to make some of your income, without being good enough to make all of it?

I think that's probably true for me.


Probably answered your own question, then.  Why not scale up?
Report Latalomne January 13, 2015 9:14 AM GMT
The scaleability of a method is somewhat reliant upon the presence of willing counterparties!
Report curlywurly January 13, 2015 9:19 AM GMT
Scale up ffs have you seen the markets lately
Report stu January 13, 2015 9:43 AM GMT
Rob_The_Bantam 13 Jan 15 09:09

Probably answered your own question, then.  Why not scale up?


Would love to, but I'm limited by both external issues (eg above) and my own financial limitations - you can only play with the bank you have available, otherwise you are overstaking and risk ruin.
Report stu January 13, 2015 9:51 AM GMT
Plus, I'd openly admit my edge in terms of making money is not huge, certainly not big enough to generate masses of money - therefore, I can make money, but not enough to be an income.
Report JML January 13, 2015 7:13 PM GMT
bobovieri--The reason why I've made over £250K is because I was here when it was a licence to print money(2001-3).

Without knowing anything about Horse racing,I won about £100K in 2001 by trading on horses.

It was a few years before Betfair had the % figures at the top of the markets.

I remember the Tyson/Lewis bout from 2002 when the % figures on the lay side of the round betting market remained around 103-105 for hours.
Probably earned more than £1000/hour that night.

Similar story with Spread betting.

By being there at the start,I was able to win a 6 figure sum over about 3 years with minimal knowledge of the sports
I was betting on.

Since about 2003 it has become increasingly difficult,on Betfair, and now I only get involved about 10 times a yesr.

I've lasted as a "professional gambler" for 25 years,mostly by being in the right place at the right time.
Report Coachbuster January 13, 2015 8:40 PM GMT
Bobo - the majority of pro gamblers will have some degree of  autism ,OCD  etc  so therefore not always suitable for regular employment .
I will guess there are also those that manage in the winter but return to part time work in the spring when the weather peps up .

8k extra per year is a handy supplement - so not enough to discourage folk ,esp if they would be gambling for fun anyway
Report smithy91 January 13, 2015 8:47 PM GMT
Working fulltime or partime with having betfair as a side income is totally the way forward unless making 3k+ a month. Risky getting trapped into the pro gambler lifestyle as many pros would find it hard to return to normal work as they prefer working for themselves. Some may need to though in the future!
Report Coachbuster January 13, 2015 10:27 PM GMT
absolutely correct smithy lad.

another point is during the good years it's wise to keep to normal spending habits rather then upping lifestyle .

maybe work to a 3 year average to keep thy feet on the ground  -
Report lanza January 13, 2015 10:43 PM GMT
so close to the 60% net now, i dont wanna think about it, finally say with some confidence it wont be soon. 

21k, 25k, 54k, 90+k, 36k...are me last 5 years winnings.  Won about 10k over a few yrs before that.  Been full time about 4-5yrs now.  Love doing what i do, but the pc charge is a killer.  Crazy having a good week after a bit of a lean patch and thinking 300-400 pc gonna be taken and being ok with it.

Bought a few little houses which i rent out in prep for life after betfair Sad really dont wanna go back to the gym and 7quid per hour rate. Sad but cant do what i do at the other sites and cant see myself paying 60%. If these people still exist here, they be crazy sob's.Laugh
Report TheInvestor2 January 14, 2015 3:43 PM GMT
Coachbuster 13 Jan 15 22:27 Joined: 08 Apr 06 | Topic/replies: 27,229 | Blogger: Coachbuster's blog
absolutely correct smithy lad.

another point is during the good years it's wise to keep to normal spending habits rather then upping lifestyle .

maybe work to a 3 year average to keep thy feet on the ground  -


Good advice.

1) You might be making more than your edge, so if you have a good year you might not be able to repeat it.
2) If you are able to make a fair bit more than you spend, you can build up a cash reserve which allows you to massively lower the probability of going bust and/or increase bet size.
Report smithy91 January 15, 2015 9:35 AM GMT
Cheers for the advice chaps :) I've listened to a lot of advice off this forum in the last few years and it's done me a lot of good. Even though I'm not full time I'm a part time trader I treat my trading on betfair as if I am full time. I work 7am until 3:30 in the afternoon I then get home at 4 and trade through until 10pm at night so very long days. My social life is non existent during the week which is bad I suppose when your 23 but what else during the week after work is there to do? Go to gym or go out in the freezing cold playing 7 a side football in blackburn with blokes trying to injure me! I prefer to switch off and trade the football and hopefully this year get myself onto the property ladder!
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 15, 2015 10:53 AM GMT
My social life is non existent during the week which is bad I suppose when your 23 but what else during the week after work is there to do?

That is bad.  Go out with your friends?  If life's that bad around Blackburn, I suggest moving to somewhere where things are happening.  Sitting in front of the computer all night, especially at the age of 23, is criminal.
Report smithy91 January 15, 2015 12:53 PM GMT
I disagree rob nobody goes out midweek in blackburn that I know apart from playing 7 a side footy and going to the gym. I'd rather spend my time more productively during the week. Friday, saturday and sunday it's much better I have a football team saturday and one on sunday and although the nightlife is poor in blackburn can still have good weekends as lots of people out who I know etc. Would moving down south really be a good idea? What do they get up to during the week?
Report Coachbuster January 15, 2015 11:50 PM GMT
smithy - i think the norm for most young people  midweek is to stay in esp during winter -  there is a lot to stay in for these days .

little more than 20 years ago no internet,so no gaming/gambling  sites,social networking sites,dating sites ,netflix,multi channels ,tivo boxes or even cell phones for teenagers  -  compare that with how going out to the pub/clubs midweek these days is almost unheard of
Report smithy91 January 16, 2015 9:20 AM GMT
Great post coach exactly my point! I'm not into all this social networking  nonsense like facebook. I find it incredibly boring . My idea of fun during the week is coming up against some of the world's leading football traders it provides a stern test of me and everyone needs a challenge in life. Standing in the mirror and taking pictures of myself then sending them to other people like most 23 year olds do dosen't appeal to me but maybe I'm just old fashioned :)
Report stu January 16, 2015 10:35 AM GMT
Not to mention having to take a small mortgage out every time you go out to drink these days! Just buying a round of pints cripples the bank these days in a pub.

These days I save going out to football trips, and very occasional nights out with the missus. I just don't know how anyone could afford to be out several times a week!
Report pistachio January 16, 2015 12:52 PM GMT
Hi gang , hope all are well. I have a question about pc.  If your a payer does that go for the austrailian wallet too.?
Report Westender January 16, 2015 12:58 PM GMT
yes
Report pistachio January 16, 2015 1:07 PM GMT
Thanks westender , i thought so.
Report smithy91 January 16, 2015 1:21 PM GMT
Stu's right. I get paid monthly every 20th! I got paid £2050 on december 19th so mad friday. I've spent all that and had to withdraw £200 from betfair just to scramble over the line until I get paid next tuesday 20th January. Numerous nights out over Christmas period, went to two blackburn games Middlesbrough at home and bolton away. Bought everyone's Christmas presents, spent two seperate weekends in glasgow including new years eve and finally went to berlin last weekend thursday until monday. Betfair came to the rescue and I don't even pay proper bills yet. I simply have to trade or can't do the things I want to!
Report Lex January 17, 2015 4:51 PM GMT
is there a thread explaining how to work out the pc charge please guys?
I cant make head or tail of the befair t%c's

thanks
Report Westender January 17, 2015 11:50 PM GMT
Lex - that is the purpose of the Premium Charges explanation, to prevent people understanding how much they get robbed and when.

Betfair used to be a simple 5% commission and they now have a telephone book of charges which are now hidden away deep within the bowels of www.betfair.com
Report ZEALOT January 26, 2015 4:31 PM GMT
Leave then - simples

It's up to you

A bit of something or Nothing
Report Westender January 26, 2015 5:36 PM GMT
People have left in their droves mate - check the liquidity.

If 95% of people cannot earn the basic wage per hour spent on Betfair then why bother?

A bit of something no longer worth the effort - simples Laugh
Report ZEALOT January 26, 2015 10:06 PM GMT
then leave
Report Westender January 27, 2015 4:16 PM GMT
Simples Laugh
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 29, 2015 6:50 AM GMT
So what have the people who've left in their droves done?  Gone elsewhere or packed in betting altogether?  Do you still bet here, Westender?
Report pawras January 29, 2015 8:28 AM GMT
depends what sort of player you are, if you're a pre race backer then betfair ain't the only game in town is it, especially considering the lack of liquidity early in the day.
Report smithy91 January 29, 2015 12:55 PM GMT
Correct score, match odds, and over/under are still packed with liquidity though so can still get big amounts matched every day when there's a live game on! Also the less big players taking up the spaces and positions on correct score the better can get to the front of the queue easily just by putting money down the night before. The less big players the better for me :)
Report Coachbuster January 29, 2015 7:10 PM GMT
players  are moving onto main markets such as myself


main markets remaining busy ,side markets forming moss on the north side
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 30, 2015 6:59 AM GMT
depends what sort of player you are, if you're a pre race backer then betfair ain't the only game in town is it, especially considering the lack of liquidity early in the day.

It's not.  However, the reason that most people are on Betfair in the first place is because they can't get on elsewhere.  If we assume that Betfair by and large has the correct price, wouldn't most people have exhausted other accounts before they ended up on here?

players are moving onto main markets such as myself

If I remember correctly, you used to talk about playing the Correct Score 2 market.  If things have dried up on here, do you think it's because your pricing isn't giving punters enough value, or that there's just not the interest that there once was?
Report pawras January 30, 2015 8:29 AM GMT
I only do horses , at the fav end of the market befair ain't all that at all , especially as an early backer as not many of those who win have drifted, the exchange only really becomes relevant to me for bigger prices i.e. >=10/1 because then you can pick up much better prices.
Report Cardinal Scott January 30, 2015 11:00 AM GMT
Another Cricket game with 50 Mill Matched with England v India.........this place is not growing tumbleweed just yet!
Report Westender January 30, 2015 1:23 PM GMT
Betfair have failed to realise that gambling is not a necessity in life and people have a plethora of options for betting elsewhere and/or spending their money on non betting activities. (Why waste £200 on here when you could jump a nice Escort or have a good night out picking up a woman costing more than an Escort.)

The Bookmaking industry is saturated and Betfair will always be a tiddler in that area. Their unique selling point is the Exchange which has seen liquidity declining since 2008 as a result of the Premium Charges, Sportsbook, hiding the Exchange on the Website, reducing Betfair Live Video Football and no longer advertising  the Exchange.

Betfair may realise when it is too late, that with the exception of a few large winners, Betfair needs customers and customers don't need Betfair.

The world will not stop with the demise of Betfair nor will the bookmaking industry.

Pre 2008 - I was 100% betting on Betfair.

Now - about 10% on Betfair.

Never thought I would be back betting with bookmakers and using Purple. Cry
Report Coachbuster January 30, 2015 4:05 PM GMT
Purple are a wolf in sheeps clothing imo

they have to sit things out for now
Report Charkitz January 30, 2015 10:35 PM GMT
Westender how do you back with bookmakers? Most of us can't get a bet on with bookmakers, a lot of people will never leave Betfair for this reason
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