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bobovieri
21 Feb 13 10:00
Joined:
Date Joined: 13 Jul 08
| Topic/replies: 9,596 | Blogger: bobovieri's blog
I'm pretty sucesfull and month by month I can make good profit here.

But, I wanna know some experience from people who are here full time, betfair professionals.

1. How your life is?
2. Minus and plus of that kind of life (I don't think about money)
3. Is harder to bet when You know that betfair is only way to make a money?


Thanks in advance...
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Report bobovieri January 2, 2015 7:32 AM GMT
After first professional year, it's time to answer on my own questions


1. How your life is?

Better than I could ever imagine! I have money and time. I can do whatever I want, buy many things... all at all, my life is really great at the moment. Year ago, I made best decision of my life, when I quit job and became professional.


2. Minus and plus of that kind of life (I don't think about money)


Only one minus - During bad period (about 40 days) I was very nervous and though "regular job and empty head is not so bad" Laugh

plus - So many things, but one is most important. I spend 60 days on vacation and in the middle of September, during working day, I'd been with my wife and kid at the beach. Nobody's there, just me, my wife and my daughter. Priceless guys! That was a moment which I enjoyed most, when I realize that my life is a dream. No, bosses, no early morning stress, my life is really - "my".


3. Is harder to bet when You know that betfair is only way to make a money?


You got the answers on this question many times before. When your bank is big enough, no stress at all.




So... With one year pro experience, I'm gone try to help people who are now where I'd been year ago.

If You are SURE that You are good enough, quit job, living from betfair is a dream. But, must be good, must have few strategies, must be sure that You know about betfair more than 90 % people here.

Find balance between betfair and social life. Even millions means nothing, if You don't have social life. Freedom is most important, but for freedom You must be good enough to make money in few hours.

If anybody need some help, I'm here. And yes... Thank You all who helped me year ago and made me brave to quit my job.
Report no moves January 4, 2015 12:48 AM GMT
" When your bank is big enough, no stress at all".


Bobovier........how big is your bank?


How much did you lose in that 40 days?
Report bobovieri January 4, 2015 10:48 AM GMT
My bank is flexible. Don't have much on account, but if I find great opportunity, in few seconds I can deposit solid money.

Lost average car.
Report no moves January 4, 2015 11:38 AM GMT
1)[i"]My bank is flexible. Don't have much on account, but if I find great opportunity, in few seconds I can deposit solid money".

2)" When your bank is big enough, no stress at all".[/i]


I don't know if the two statements seem totally compatable, of course you may have some sort of super bot idea which doesn't need much money because its almost no lose, but on the face of it you don't appear to have a large bank which you emphasize in the text is needed for stress free gambling.


"Lost average car".

There is no actual figure (your reluctance to give a figure would suggest this was a painful amount)but for arguments sake say £12,000 to £15,000. Its food for thought if anybody else is embarking on this idea how would you feel if in a 40 day period you lost that amount?
Report Westender January 4, 2015 3:59 PM GMT
With the exception of a few super Bot users, the only winner on here is Betfair PLC

At least 95% of people lose and nearly all of the 5% winners lose long term with the huge premium charges.

There are not very many on here who can even make the minimum wage per hour spent on here.

The forum always has a few posters who suggest otherwise but 99% of those full of bull.
Report no moves January 4, 2015 11:59 PM GMT
Westender.........my account for the three months stands at + £7.98, does this show its all possible on here?Crazy


Before Betfair seize upon my post as great promotion for them I've been on here for about ten years and my three months total nearly always reads......£200-£250 in the red
Report no moves January 5, 2015 12:04 AM GMT
I win on poker (though strangely never on Betfair poker) around £50 average a week last year.


Its my opinion if you've got a reasonable knowledge on odds its easier making money playing poker than on here.
Report bobovieri January 5, 2015 9:52 AM GMT
With netteler or similar sites, You can deposit money in few seconds, that's the reason why I told You my bank is flexible. Yes, when I lost "average car" money I didn't have to worry about how to pay bills, food and some other stuffs, so I was very angry and nervous, but without big stress.


Westender, yes,it's not possible for many people, but for some betfair is a dream. Like I said before, You must know about betfair much more than other people. It's possible, now it's up to You to believe me or think that I'm a liar.
Report stu January 5, 2015 2:51 PM GMT
Of course it's possible - and many that would prove that would never dream of posting on the forum also.
Report Westender January 5, 2015 3:07 PM GMT
How many on here regularly make at least the minimum wage per hour spent on Betfair?

That is after deduction of all Betfair Fees including Premium Charges

Answer - very few.
Report pablo-fanque January 5, 2015 3:12 PM GMT
it's a hobby for alot of people westender . most people don't expect to make a living from a hobby
Report Westender January 5, 2015 7:07 PM GMT
Read the thread title mate Laugh

They would be better off saving up their losses and having a go at a nice hooker. Laugh
Report pablo-fanque January 5, 2015 7:46 PM GMT
That is after deduction of all Betfair Fees including Premium Charges

Answer - very few


so, you are saying that the people that are full time on here and paying PC , make less than the minimum wage per hour for there time and effort .

what makes you say this , do you have any facts and figures or are you just guessing ?
Report no moves January 5, 2015 8:51 PM GMT
during working day, I'd been with my wife and kid at the beach. Nobody's there, just me, my wife and my daughter. Priceless guys! That was a moment which I enjoyed most, when I realize that my life is a dream.
Report no moves January 5, 2015 9:13 PM GMT
" When your bank is big enough, no stress at all"
First statement

"Lost average car".

There is no actual figure (your reluctance to give a figure would suggest this was a painful amount)but for arguments sake say £12,000 to £15,000."


second statement discussing how much lost during worst period



"With netteler or similar sites, You can deposit money in few seconds, that's the reason why I told You my bank is flexible. Yes, when I lost "average car" money I didn't have to worry about how to pay bills, food and some other stuffs, so I was very angry and nervous, but without big stress"

third statement discussing the fact £12-15,000 wasn't such a devestating loss in reality

"So many things, but one is most important. I spend 60 days on vacation and in the middle of September, during working day, I'd been with my wife and kid at the beach. Nobody's there, just me, my wife and my daughter. Priceless guys! That was a moment which I enjoyed most, when I realize that my life is a dream. No, bosses, no early morning stress, my life is really" -

The last paragraph paints a picture of a man who enjoys the simple pleasures in life with his family,but the loss of £12-15,000 seems to be absorved by you rather naunchanetly previously in the text suggesting you must have a huge bank balance in order to play comfortably at this level.  If you have £100,000 to play with weren't these options of simple pleasures with your family  already open to you?
Report no moves January 5, 2015 9:29 PM GMT
First statement

When your bank is big enough, no stress at all"


second statement discussing how much lost during worst period


"Lost average car".
There is no actual figure (your reluctance to give a figure would suggest this was a painful amount)but for arguments sake say £12,000 to £15,000."





third statement discussing the fact £12-15,000 wasn't such a devestating loss in reality


"With netteler or similar sites, You can deposit money in few seconds, that's the reason why I told You my bank is flexible. Yes, when I lost "average car" money I didn't have to worry about how to pay bills, food and some other stuffs, so I was very angry and nervous, but without big stress"

The last paragraph paints a picture of a man who enjoys the simple pleasures in life with his family,but the loss of £12-15,000 seems to be absorved by you rather naunchanetly previously in the text suggesting you must have a huge bank balance in order to play comfortably at this level.  If you have £100,000 to play with weren't these options of simple pleasures with your family  already open to you?



"So many things, but one is most important. I spend 60 days on vacation and in the middle of September, during working day, I'd been with my wife and kid at the beach. Nobody's there, just me, my wife and my daughter. Priceless guys! That was a moment which I enjoyed most, when I realize that my life is a dream. No, bosses, no early morning stress, my life is really" -
Report Westender January 6, 2015 11:13 AM GMT
The vast majority of full timers left because they could not earn the minimum wage after premium charges.

Clear to see in the high falls in liquidity over the past 3-5 years.

For those who say it can be done - let me know how many people on here make the minimum wage per hour spent on Betfair.

Betfair PLC is the big winner on here.
Report DFCIRONMAN January 6, 2015 12:29 PM GMT
Are you a bookie WE ?Devil
Report Westender January 6, 2015 12:43 PM GMT
Just realistic mate.
Report pablo-fanque January 6, 2015 12:54 PM GMT
i doubt that the vast majority of people paying 20% pc have left .

i doubt that the vast majority of 40-60 %ers have left either , maybe a few have , but no way the majority
Report Westender January 6, 2015 1:22 PM GMT
Explain the relentless decline in liquidity!!!!!

This place is dead for most of the football in-play markets.
Report Westender January 6, 2015 1:26 PM GMT
Betfair taxes (premium charges) are the most unfair as there is no turning the counter back to zero at the start of a tax year.

The taxes are between 22.5% and 62.5% based on historical gains.

Who on earth is going to bother when 5% commission is already high enough?

Only a few super Bot users and other very clever people can make it pay above the minimum wage per hour spent on Betfair
Report Westender January 6, 2015 1:30 PM GMT
Imagine struggling to make the minimum wage then Betfair clobber people with their huge taxes immediately without any allowances. Laugh

For 99.99% of Betfair customers, the reality is:

It don't pay
It never will pay
Spend your money enjoying your day

The dream died when it became when Betfair was taken over by Paddy Power Mgt and turned into a bookmaker. Cry
Report pablo-fanque January 6, 2015 1:31 PM GMT
its all been explained on the " liquidity in decline " thread .

i am just pointing out that it is highly unlikely that the majority of 20% pc payers have left .

40 hour a week on minimum wage after tax is £210 a week take home

i doubt that the people paying 20% pc are not earning £210 or more a week for 40 hours work

do you ?
Report Westender January 6, 2015 5:16 PM GMT
What I was stating is that there is not many full timers left on here.

Check out the football markets during the day and the £2 Bot is flashing away without any bites.
Report bobovieri January 7, 2015 9:41 AM GMT
PC is big ****, I'm sick every Wednesday, but You have to pay 20 % on profit in most jobs. Like I said before, You have to know about betfair more than 95% other users. I mean about maths, not about injuries, team form, home-away record and useless things like this. In that case, less liquidity is not big problem, You will always get opportunity to make some money.
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 10, 2015 9:27 AM GMT
I personally believe going 'full time' on BF is not the best solution - better to have some form of income (preferably home work or part time) and supplement it with BF/betting/trading money.

Why would you take on a part time job that earns much less than you could on Betfair/wherever else during the same hours?  Very few people work for the thrill of it.  Life's too short; make what you can while you can and enjoy life. 

In an ideal world, you'd have a part time job that required no time and effort and that'd help with getting a mortgage etc, but the reality is that if you're then earning, say, 50k a year less because of the part time job, it's damaging your ability to do the things that you want to do in life, as you have less money with which to do them.
Report ZEALOT January 10, 2015 12:21 PM GMT
working is an obstacle in my life - out of the house for 12 hours Monday to Friday is WRONG .
Report Coachbuster January 10, 2015 4:07 PM GMT
pablo-fanque 06 Jan 15 13:31 Joined: 22 Oct 14 | Topic/replies: 403 | Blogger: pablo-fanque's blog
its all been explained on the " liquidity in decline " thread .

i am just pointing out that it is highly unlikely that the majority of 20% pc payers have left .

40 hour a week on minimum wage after tax is £210 a week take home

i doubt that the people paying 20% pc are not earning £210 or more a week for 40 hours work

do you ?
____________

i'll stick my neck out and say that most on the 20% tarrif/band will be making even less than 200 /week pablo
Report stu January 10, 2015 4:27 PM GMT
Rob_The_Bantam 10 Jan 15 09:27

Why would you take on a part time job that earns much less than you could on Betfair/wherever else during the same hours?  Very few people work for the thrill of it.  Life's too short; make what you can while you can and enjoy life. 

In an ideal world, you'd have a part time job that required no time and effort and that'd help with getting a mortgage etc, but the reality is that if you're then earning, say, 50k a year less because of the part time job, it's damaging your ability to do the things that you want to do in life, as you have less money with which to do them.


If you could earn huge amounts, and do it reliably, then of course just playing BF would be the best option. However, the security of steady income to support BF money would be a reality for most in my guess. To cover those periods when the betting/trading gods turn against you.
Report ZEALOT January 11, 2015 2:28 PM GMT
COACH - £200 PER WEEK ????

ABSOLUTE BULL LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report ZEALOT January 11, 2015 2:29 PM GMT
WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO WARN OFF - WHAT IS YOUR AIM ?
Report freddiewilliams January 11, 2015 2:46 PM GMT
crazy...coach
Report Coachbuster January 11, 2015 3:42 PM GMT
why crazy ?

most of the premium payers in the 20-% band only had to make around 8- 10k in the first place - which wasn't a great deal back in '08 when winning was easier .

Most ground to a halt .

As it got harder those winners went  3 ways .

Give up and go back to work .
Continue at a harder rate and end up chasing  probably to lose everything - or like myself ,continue at a slower rate and make less ,betting only when good opportunities arise .
Report Darlo Bantam January 11, 2015 10:37 PM GMT
What is crazy, is that the figures you need to attain to pay PC have never changed, so more and more people get there every year.
Report Coachbuster January 11, 2015 10:50 PM GMT
indeedy - that too Darlo


and a lot of them aren't all making 200 a week

£199 p/ week is over 10k in the first year    - so that PC sorted for a kick off.
Report Coachbuster January 11, 2015 10:52 PM GMT
you could have  be making £30 per week no less, and never  more than that and be still paying premium charges
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 12, 2015 9:46 AM GMT
If you could earn huge amounts, and do it reliably, then of course just playing BF would be the best option. However, the security of steady income to support BF money would be a reality for most in my guess. To cover those periods when the betting/trading gods turn against you.

But anyone considering doing this full time must be earning money reliably and regularly, otherwise it wouldn't be a consideration.  Any situation where the betting gods turn against you would be catered for by a staking plan to accommodate the inevitable bad runs, wouldn't it?  It's just simple variance.  If you're right on average more than you're wrong, you can stand the losing streaks if your staking is correct.

The part time job isn't needed.  If you're good enough, you're good enough.  If you're not good enough, the sharks will soon take you to the cleaners and you'll never get as far as thinking about going full time.
Report stu January 12, 2015 10:41 AM GMT
Can you not be 'good enough' to make some of your income, without being good enough to make all of it?

I think that's probably true for me.
Report stu January 12, 2015 10:41 AM GMT
Also depends on initial available funds to use?
Report bobovieri January 12, 2015 11:24 AM GMT
Coach, 200 per week? 8k-10k per year?????? Man, We are talking about professionals! Many of them made 8k-10k per month!
Report JML January 12, 2015 5:37 PM GMT
bobovieri--being on 20% does in no way equate to being professional and those earning £9K per month are not on 20%.

I agree with Coach in that over 50% of those in the 20% band
will be making less than £10K pa.

I'm on 40% and will need a lot of luck to make £10K on Betfair
this year.
Report ZEALOT January 12, 2015 7:25 PM GMT
You're on 40%  and only make 10k a year

Why can't you do your stuff with bet duck - ??
Report Coachbuster January 12, 2015 8:23 PM GMT
Coach, 200 per week? 8k-10k per year?????? Man, We are talking about professionals! Many of them made 8k-10k per month!
_____________
Not many will unless you live in fairyland . Most pros don't earn THAT much .  There is a lot of variation in gambling ,which means one month 10k the next month ? maybe a loss !

Anyway , they will be on the much higher 40% plus charge .

We were talking about 20% though ,and most 20%ers earn far less than 8k a year .
Report Coachbuster January 12, 2015 8:24 PM GMT
thank you JML btw Happy
Report Westender January 13, 2015 1:03 AM GMT
Not many make the minimum wage per hour spent on Betfair since the premium charges were introduced.

That is why liquidity has declined month by month as people can guarantee making the same money without any risk in mundane jobs such as cleaning toilets or standing on the street with signs advertising food outlets etc

That is why the Exchange is dying - you cannot tax people 222.5% plus on every pound earned in the year without people reaching a tipping point and spending their time and money outside Betfair.
Report bobovieri January 13, 2015 7:31 AM GMT
OK, maybe You are right. But I can't see a point of professional betting if somebody made 8-10k. Almost everybody can make this money in some job without much stress. Betfair is usually stressful
Report bobovieri January 13, 2015 7:36 AM GMT
JML, if You are at 40%, You already made at least 250k pounds, so muc more than 10k per year. OK, I understand, with 40% PC betfair is probably - mission impossible.
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 13, 2015 9:09 AM GMT
Can you not be 'good enough' to make some of your income, without being good enough to make all of it?

I think that's probably true for me.


Probably answered your own question, then.  Why not scale up?
Report Latalomne January 13, 2015 9:14 AM GMT
The scaleability of a method is somewhat reliant upon the presence of willing counterparties!
Report curlywurly January 13, 2015 9:19 AM GMT
Scale up ffs have you seen the markets lately
Report stu January 13, 2015 9:43 AM GMT
Rob_The_Bantam 13 Jan 15 09:09

Probably answered your own question, then.  Why not scale up?


Would love to, but I'm limited by both external issues (eg above) and my own financial limitations - you can only play with the bank you have available, otherwise you are overstaking and risk ruin.
Report stu January 13, 2015 9:51 AM GMT
Plus, I'd openly admit my edge in terms of making money is not huge, certainly not big enough to generate masses of money - therefore, I can make money, but not enough to be an income.
Report JML January 13, 2015 7:13 PM GMT
bobovieri--The reason why I've made over £250K is because I was here when it was a licence to print money(2001-3).

Without knowing anything about Horse racing,I won about £100K in 2001 by trading on horses.

It was a few years before Betfair had the % figures at the top of the markets.

I remember the Tyson/Lewis bout from 2002 when the % figures on the lay side of the round betting market remained around 103-105 for hours.
Probably earned more than £1000/hour that night.

Similar story with Spread betting.

By being there at the start,I was able to win a 6 figure sum over about 3 years with minimal knowledge of the sports
I was betting on.

Since about 2003 it has become increasingly difficult,on Betfair, and now I only get involved about 10 times a yesr.

I've lasted as a "professional gambler" for 25 years,mostly by being in the right place at the right time.
Report Coachbuster January 13, 2015 8:40 PM GMT
Bobo - the majority of pro gamblers will have some degree of  autism ,OCD  etc  so therefore not always suitable for regular employment .
I will guess there are also those that manage in the winter but return to part time work in the spring when the weather peps up .

8k extra per year is a handy supplement - so not enough to discourage folk ,esp if they would be gambling for fun anyway
Report smithy91 January 13, 2015 8:47 PM GMT
Working fulltime or partime with having betfair as a side income is totally the way forward unless making 3k+ a month. Risky getting trapped into the pro gambler lifestyle as many pros would find it hard to return to normal work as they prefer working for themselves. Some may need to though in the future!
Report Coachbuster January 13, 2015 10:27 PM GMT
absolutely correct smithy lad.

another point is during the good years it's wise to keep to normal spending habits rather then upping lifestyle .

maybe work to a 3 year average to keep thy feet on the ground  -
Report lanza January 13, 2015 10:43 PM GMT
so close to the 60% net now, i dont wanna think about it, finally say with some confidence it wont be soon. 

21k, 25k, 54k, 90+k, 36k...are me last 5 years winnings.  Won about 10k over a few yrs before that.  Been full time about 4-5yrs now.  Love doing what i do, but the pc charge is a killer.  Crazy having a good week after a bit of a lean patch and thinking 300-400 pc gonna be taken and being ok with it.

Bought a few little houses which i rent out in prep for life after betfair Sad really dont wanna go back to the gym and 7quid per hour rate. Sad but cant do what i do at the other sites and cant see myself paying 60%. If these people still exist here, they be crazy sob's.Laugh
Report TheInvestor2 January 14, 2015 3:43 PM GMT
Coachbuster 13 Jan 15 22:27 Joined: 08 Apr 06 | Topic/replies: 27,229 | Blogger: Coachbuster's blog
absolutely correct smithy lad.

another point is during the good years it's wise to keep to normal spending habits rather then upping lifestyle .

maybe work to a 3 year average to keep thy feet on the ground  -


Good advice.

1) You might be making more than your edge, so if you have a good year you might not be able to repeat it.
2) If you are able to make a fair bit more than you spend, you can build up a cash reserve which allows you to massively lower the probability of going bust and/or increase bet size.
Report smithy91 January 15, 2015 9:35 AM GMT
Cheers for the advice chaps :) I've listened to a lot of advice off this forum in the last few years and it's done me a lot of good. Even though I'm not full time I'm a part time trader I treat my trading on betfair as if I am full time. I work 7am until 3:30 in the afternoon I then get home at 4 and trade through until 10pm at night so very long days. My social life is non existent during the week which is bad I suppose when your 23 but what else during the week after work is there to do? Go to gym or go out in the freezing cold playing 7 a side football in blackburn with blokes trying to injure me! I prefer to switch off and trade the football and hopefully this year get myself onto the property ladder!
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 15, 2015 10:53 AM GMT
My social life is non existent during the week which is bad I suppose when your 23 but what else during the week after work is there to do?

That is bad.  Go out with your friends?  If life's that bad around Blackburn, I suggest moving to somewhere where things are happening.  Sitting in front of the computer all night, especially at the age of 23, is criminal.
Report smithy91 January 15, 2015 12:53 PM GMT
I disagree rob nobody goes out midweek in blackburn that I know apart from playing 7 a side footy and going to the gym. I'd rather spend my time more productively during the week. Friday, saturday and sunday it's much better I have a football team saturday and one on sunday and although the nightlife is poor in blackburn can still have good weekends as lots of people out who I know etc. Would moving down south really be a good idea? What do they get up to during the week?
Report Coachbuster January 15, 2015 11:50 PM GMT
smithy - i think the norm for most young people  midweek is to stay in esp during winter -  there is a lot to stay in for these days .

little more than 20 years ago no internet,so no gaming/gambling  sites,social networking sites,dating sites ,netflix,multi channels ,tivo boxes or even cell phones for teenagers  -  compare that with how going out to the pub/clubs midweek these days is almost unheard of
Report smithy91 January 16, 2015 9:20 AM GMT
Great post coach exactly my point! I'm not into all this social networking  nonsense like facebook. I find it incredibly boring . My idea of fun during the week is coming up against some of the world's leading football traders it provides a stern test of me and everyone needs a challenge in life. Standing in the mirror and taking pictures of myself then sending them to other people like most 23 year olds do dosen't appeal to me but maybe I'm just old fashioned :)
Report stu January 16, 2015 10:35 AM GMT
Not to mention having to take a small mortgage out every time you go out to drink these days! Just buying a round of pints cripples the bank these days in a pub.

These days I save going out to football trips, and very occasional nights out with the missus. I just don't know how anyone could afford to be out several times a week!
Report pistachio January 16, 2015 12:52 PM GMT
Hi gang , hope all are well. I have a question about pc.  If your a payer does that go for the austrailian wallet too.?
Report Westender January 16, 2015 12:58 PM GMT
yes
Report pistachio January 16, 2015 1:07 PM GMT
Thanks westender , i thought so.
Report smithy91 January 16, 2015 1:21 PM GMT
Stu's right. I get paid monthly every 20th! I got paid £2050 on december 19th so mad friday. I've spent all that and had to withdraw £200 from betfair just to scramble over the line until I get paid next tuesday 20th January. Numerous nights out over Christmas period, went to two blackburn games Middlesbrough at home and bolton away. Bought everyone's Christmas presents, spent two seperate weekends in glasgow including new years eve and finally went to berlin last weekend thursday until monday. Betfair came to the rescue and I don't even pay proper bills yet. I simply have to trade or can't do the things I want to!
Report Lex January 17, 2015 4:51 PM GMT
is there a thread explaining how to work out the pc charge please guys?
I cant make head or tail of the befair t%c's

thanks
Report Westender January 17, 2015 11:50 PM GMT
Lex - that is the purpose of the Premium Charges explanation, to prevent people understanding how much they get robbed and when.

Betfair used to be a simple 5% commission and they now have a telephone book of charges which are now hidden away deep within the bowels of www.betfair.com
Report ZEALOT January 26, 2015 4:31 PM GMT
Leave then - simples

It's up to you

A bit of something or Nothing
Report Westender January 26, 2015 5:36 PM GMT
People have left in their droves mate - check the liquidity.

If 95% of people cannot earn the basic wage per hour spent on Betfair then why bother?

A bit of something no longer worth the effort - simples Laugh
Report ZEALOT January 26, 2015 10:06 PM GMT
then leave
Report Westender January 27, 2015 4:16 PM GMT
Simples Laugh
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 29, 2015 6:50 AM GMT
So what have the people who've left in their droves done?  Gone elsewhere or packed in betting altogether?  Do you still bet here, Westender?
Report pawras January 29, 2015 8:28 AM GMT
depends what sort of player you are, if you're a pre race backer then betfair ain't the only game in town is it, especially considering the lack of liquidity early in the day.
Report smithy91 January 29, 2015 12:55 PM GMT
Correct score, match odds, and over/under are still packed with liquidity though so can still get big amounts matched every day when there's a live game on! Also the less big players taking up the spaces and positions on correct score the better can get to the front of the queue easily just by putting money down the night before. The less big players the better for me :)
Report Coachbuster January 29, 2015 7:10 PM GMT
players  are moving onto main markets such as myself


main markets remaining busy ,side markets forming moss on the north side
Report Rob_The_Bantam January 30, 2015 6:59 AM GMT
depends what sort of player you are, if you're a pre race backer then betfair ain't the only game in town is it, especially considering the lack of liquidity early in the day.

It's not.  However, the reason that most people are on Betfair in the first place is because they can't get on elsewhere.  If we assume that Betfair by and large has the correct price, wouldn't most people have exhausted other accounts before they ended up on here?

players are moving onto main markets such as myself

If I remember correctly, you used to talk about playing the Correct Score 2 market.  If things have dried up on here, do you think it's because your pricing isn't giving punters enough value, or that there's just not the interest that there once was?
Report pawras January 30, 2015 8:29 AM GMT
I only do horses , at the fav end of the market befair ain't all that at all , especially as an early backer as not many of those who win have drifted, the exchange only really becomes relevant to me for bigger prices i.e. >=10/1 because then you can pick up much better prices.
Report Cardinal Scott January 30, 2015 11:00 AM GMT
Another Cricket game with 50 Mill Matched with England v India.........this place is not growing tumbleweed just yet!
Report Westender January 30, 2015 1:23 PM GMT
Betfair have failed to realise that gambling is not a necessity in life and people have a plethora of options for betting elsewhere and/or spending their money on non betting activities. (Why waste £200 on here when you could jump a nice Escort or have a good night out picking up a woman costing more than an Escort.)

The Bookmaking industry is saturated and Betfair will always be a tiddler in that area. Their unique selling point is the Exchange which has seen liquidity declining since 2008 as a result of the Premium Charges, Sportsbook, hiding the Exchange on the Website, reducing Betfair Live Video Football and no longer advertising  the Exchange.

Betfair may realise when it is too late, that with the exception of a few large winners, Betfair needs customers and customers don't need Betfair.

The world will not stop with the demise of Betfair nor will the bookmaking industry.

Pre 2008 - I was 100% betting on Betfair.

Now - about 10% on Betfair.

Never thought I would be back betting with bookmakers and using Purple. Cry
Report Coachbuster January 30, 2015 4:05 PM GMT
Purple are a wolf in sheeps clothing imo

they have to sit things out for now
Report Charkitz January 30, 2015 10:35 PM GMT
Westender how do you back with bookmakers? Most of us can't get a bet on with bookmakers, a lot of people will never leave Betfair for this reason
Report big aitch February 3, 2015 12:42 PM GMT
I have 4 deposit accounts with bookmakers, very rarely use them, i did have someone on here a few years ago ask me to put bets on for him, wasn't going to pay me, said I would benefit from being able to back them.

Fair enough if they win, he could have been arbing for all I know, so I could have ended up massively out of pocket and getting my accounts closed.
Report Westender February 3, 2015 12:54 PM GMT
Nobody is going to buy a pint of beer for £4 plus 22.5% tax if you could get the same elsewhere tax free.

A small tax up to 5% makes no difference but 22.5% makes people go elsewhere.

The Books is fine as long as you don't win too big and give them some back. No problems getting matched at Matchbook and Purple for the larger bets both tax free.
Report fixed February 5, 2015 4:36 AM GMT
just wrong

it's rational to bet/invest where one can win the most
also most of the time taxes/fees will be highest there
Report Rob_The_Bantam February 5, 2015 6:08 AM GMT
The Books is fine as long as you don't win too big and give them some back.

But they're not.  Cherry pick the top price bets and you'll get booted, win or lose.  And if you're not getting top price for your bets, you're likely to be a loser anyway.  When you say "give some back", what do you mean by this?
Report Westender February 5, 2015 9:47 AM GMT
A little bit of thinking Rob and you will work it out.
Report GUSCHER February 5, 2015 1:56 PM GMT
I have been using betfair for some years now, with varying degrees of success along with some disasters! The last year has been the best with a 8 fold increase in bank. I have been accepted for a years sabbatical from work from April. I have enough savings to cover my expenses for a year. I do not wish to make gambling my career, having family and dependents.  Betfair was not the reason to have a year off but I was hoping to spend a bit more time here and increase my profits to cover my expenses to enable me to keep hold of most of my savings. I use the maths & statistics to plan my betting, but on bad days I do spend extra time on recovery strategies. Although on a normal day will only make a couple of bets per day and will never increase my stake, just the quantity of bets. I will need to make and spend 15% of my bank to break even and end the year clear. This was a great thread and very useful info, thanks. Will come back here now and again to recap and let you know how the year is going!!
Report Phantom Knight February 5, 2015 7:59 PM GMT
I have been losing 1000s every year here. Fortunately I can control myself and have a fixed budget to bet per month.
Report Phantom Knight February 5, 2015 8:00 PM GMT
I mean I am fortunate not to finish all my money on here
Report GUSCHER February 11, 2015 7:38 PM GMT
One lay a day, if it wins. If not 2 lays a day until you win it back, if not 3 lays a day until you win it back etc,etc,etc. gentle recovery at level stakes no stake increases. At the end of the calender month make a p/l spreadsheet and take profit or cut your losses but start afresh on the first of every month. Greed get it out of your head!!  0.3% of bank at the start of every month for the whole month. Could go on and on but that's the basics. u.k/Ire races only. I know nothing about racing but have managed to go from £650 on 1/1/14 to £5163 today! I'm not saying that level will continue or work for you but if I can do it believe me anyone can. What I lack in knowledge I make up with patience, discipline, money management and NO GREED! I've tried a lot of things and this is the only system I have found that works for over 13 consecutive months. Good luck!!
Report racingguru February 11, 2015 11:19 PM GMT
GL Gusch - I can`t work out laying horses at all. The ones I want to lay and can`t cos they drift like mad lose and the ones i get matched on are running for their lives. I have a profit margin of over 20% to stake on win bets yet lays I`m down almost 3% over 6 years. Much harder game laying than betting to win IMO.
Report no moves February 12, 2015 9:03 AM GMT
"One lay a day, if it wins. If not 2 lays a day until you win it back, if not 3 lays a day until you win it back etc,etc,etc. gentle recovery at level stakes no stake increases. At the end of the calender month make a p/l spreadsheet and take profit or cut your losses but start afresh on the first of every month. Greed get it out of your head!!  0.3% of bank at the start of every month for the whole month. Could go on and on but that's the basics. u.k/Ire races only. I know nothing about racing but have managed to go from £650 on 1/1/14 to £5163 today! I'm not saying that level will continue or work for you but if I can do it believe me anyone can. What I lack in knowledge I make up with patience, discipline, money management and NO GREED! I've tried a lot of things and this is the only system I have found that works for over 13 consecutive months. Good luck!!"


8 or 9 times your money in not much more than a year seems very aggressive to me.
Report Munter 69 February 12, 2015 10:13 AM GMT
What I lack in knowledge I make up with patience, discipline, money management and NO GREED!


I have the knowledge it's just the other four things you mention that AWAYS let me down.......:(
Report GUSCHER February 12, 2015 11:59 AM GMT
Think you might well be right no moves. I may add a bit more to my bank but reduce that percentage to give a bit more room for errors on those losing runs.
Thanks Munter try it, slowly,slowly and if you have the knowledge and can master the other bits you'll have more success than me!!
Report smithy91 February 13, 2015 12:01 PM GMT
I used to think the more you watch a sport you bet on  which for me is football the better you become at betting on it which I've found now isn't the case.  I watch less and less football and don't even need to watch match of the day anymore it's not critical although it's better to see it than not to. The key is not watching the sport but watching how the markets work!
Report stu February 14, 2015 1:30 PM GMT
racingguru 11 Feb 15 23:19 Joined: 06 Jan 01 |

GL Gusch - I can`t work out laying horses at all. The ones I want to lay and can`t cos they drift like mad lose and the ones i get matched on are running for their lives. I have a profit margin of over 20% to stake on win bets yet lays I`m down almost 3% over 6 years. Much harder game laying than betting to win IMO.


Have similar in laying approaches vs backing. I do well backing but pretty pants in the laying side. Seems at times I can make anything win by laying it! LaughCry
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