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12 Jul 18 10:32
Date Joined: 10 Nov 10
| Topic/replies: 1,590 | Blogger: mesmerised's blog
They finished one over for the tournament. (+1)

Forgetting the meaningless Belgium game

They beat Tunisia / Panama /  Colombia / Sweden  - when they were favourites and expected to win - they were making par.

The lost to Croatia as favourites, bogey'd their last hole.

I don't see how that makes it a successful tournament.

Croatia beat England and Argentina odds against, -2 under. 

It's looks good getting to the Semi's but in reality, it was a disappointing World Cup when you realise we never once punched above our weight and lost to the first half decent team.
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Report mesmerised July 12, 2018 11:55 AM BST
changing their manager 24 hours before the kick off didn't help.
Report impossible123 July 12, 2018 11:56 AM BST
..."we went close to beating a strong Croatia side, failing just short of a final."

Croatia are a good and experienced side, but their players were near knackered after two successive et and pens prior; the Final was a close proximity for England mainly of fortuity than skill. And I'm worried and concerned about the probable lack of opportunities in the future for our youngsters eg U17 who'd be unlikely to be given opportunities in the Premier League to hone their footballing skills.

Any team unable to refrain from playing Ali, Sterling and Young in every game when clearly these players were neither effective nor fully fit will underachieve and disappoint their fans.
Report DIE LINKE July 12, 2018 11:58 AM BST
Fallacy that a young side that does quite well will develop into better side. Keane pointed this out last night. Weaknesses and failings are just that. Stones switches off, its what he does. Sterling is a poor finisher and decision maker.
Report Stowhound July 12, 2018 11:58 AM BST
Got themselves into winning positions in all games bar the very strange Belgium game.
Failed to close games out for whatever reason.
Think their first half performances in all games were on a par with any team in it.
Report roache July 12, 2018 12:02 PM BST
I am sick and tired of pundits,journalists etc saying great experience for the youngsters,building for the future blah blah blah, i have heard it all before during the last 52 years. When we actually achieve something and reach a final or win it they can then start shouting from the roof tops but it ain't ever going to happen, we have just blown the biggest ever chance in my lifetime as i was too young to remember 1966, the luck of the draw clearing an easy passage to the final, all the big boys whom we have not beat in WC knock out games since 66 gone apart from France, dominating the 1st half should have gone 2-0 up but Kane cannot lift the ball over the keepers legs into the top part of the goals from 3 yards out which would have put us in the final, choked, Blown they always let you down and a foot note for the media saying puts us in good stead for 2022, we can forget about 2022 as we could have the best team on the planet and even though that tournament is moved to winter there is one simple word why we cannot win that tournament in my opinion and that is CLIMATE so the FA had better take down that stupid clock they have installed somewhere at ST Georges park that is ticking down to 2022 as it is set up for failure. Sad and still pee'd off from last night Cry
Report kincsem July 12, 2018 12:03 PM BST
Perhaps England had a little luck but they also played well.
The biggest improvement was having a manager who had the courage to pick young players.
He got rid of the stars who were black holes that consumed team energy.
Players who announced that they would play one or two more major competitions before retiring, and players who held press conferences saying they should have been picked in the squad and still had a lot to offer should be ignored (and they were).

England trounced the lower ranked teams.  England struggled against the higher ranked teams.  That tells me England are near the top, but a little short.
I think the bigger teams (physically) made things difficult for England i.e Sweden; Croatia.
Other top teams have players playing in a number of countries, and i think that helps them.
The other squads are exposed to different styles of play, and must adapt to other cultures.

There were signs that England were not as fit as the better teams.
This was obvious in extra time.
For the Croatia winning goal I think three England players were slow to mark opponents or anticipate danger (a sign of tiredness).

Croatia beat England 3-2 in November 2007 to end England's Euro 2008 qualification.
They are a good footballing nation.
Almost all their players are tall, fit, and skillful (the exception in size, Modric, is world class).
Croatia might have had an advantage over England of more experience.
England can improve, perhaps by bringing in two or three players
It would be nice to win a tournament, but first England need to complete a team that can go to any tournament and repeat this performance.
Report mesmerised July 12, 2018 12:04 PM BST




It wasn't a team of kids fresh from being plucked from the Under 21's, that's an experienced enough bunch. It is one one of the younger teams but hardly kids.
Report stu July 12, 2018 12:04 PM BST
The fact that we managed to win so many games, despite all these supposed problems above, means we did bloody well!
Report sickoflayinwinners July 12, 2018 12:13 PM BST
i think the most worrying things is that despite us having a young side we weakened in the second half of all the games we drew the second half with tunisia panama belgium, and lost second half to croatia and colombia

this suggests lack of stamina and kane has looked fcked  by half time in all of the knock out games.. on the topic of sterling i think he's done just ok but net result for a forward  stats of no goals no assists just won't get the job done.hopefully we can/should improve in the euro champs but somehow we have to find a creative midfielder.maybe jack grealish will be that guy.
Report Captain carnage July 12, 2018 12:15 PM BST
`Thought Stones was tremendous through out and can be the real leader in the side going forward.'

OMFG - as has been said many times - the guy cant defend. His lack of concentration (shock) in extra time
proved decisive in Croatia's win. Where you still awake then?

`Some of the football played against Tunisia 1st 20 mins finest I've seen from an English team in a while.'

Jesus wept. Tunisia were 1000/1 to win this competition. Have you ever placed a bet and realise what you are saying?

Agree, not enough is being said about stamina/mental strength in extra time v Columbia/Crotia. Ok we were prepared for the pens but not the extra 30 mins of outfield play.
Report gibmark July 12, 2018 12:18 PM BST
Croatia have some talented players , playing at top teams and highest level , wasn't all about Englands play , Croatia are a decent side
Report kincsem July 12, 2018 12:22 PM BST
Good points, Captain carnage.
England wilted and when stamina runs out the opposition get chances.
We get possession stats, and shots stats.
It would be informative if we got 1st half stats, 2nd half stats, extra time stats for England.
Although you don't need stats to see the tide has turned.
Report lurka July 12, 2018 12:25 PM BST
It was a hugely inexperienced team. Only Henderson and Sterling have played at a WC before and there aren't many medals at club level. There's more to experience than age. This team is not going to mature into a much better team. You need creative talent to make it better and that will only come from young players over the next few years, if at all. Lingard is awful. Stones and Walker are not solid centre halves and are always liable to a mistake.

Ideally, our players need to be playing for top PL sides in the latter stages of the CL to get proper experience of this level.;0
Stats for 1st half, 2nd half, ET are here
Report lurka July 12, 2018 12:26 PM BST
*your Happy
Report DIE LINKE July 12, 2018 12:32 PM BST
Hard to believe Walker is a near £100M player. The warning signs were there when he shanked a clearance for a corner.
Report roadrunner46 July 12, 2018 12:33 PM BST
england should of been out of sight after the first half, the manager to blame for the loss, no game plan
in the 2nd half, when he could of changed things before they scored. france will beat croatia easily in the
Report ffaith July 12, 2018 12:37 PM BST
I did think England played some great football against the tunisians.
If someone saying something positive about England makes you so angry that's not my bad mate that's on you.
Report hong kong fooey July 12, 2018 12:42 PM BST
Out of interest,does anyone have any idea how many chances
we created  in open play
Report impossible123 July 12, 2018 12:50 PM BST
In competitions like the World Cup taking part is just not good enough, but doing well and overcoming teams we should have or ought to have overcome is the barest minimum.

England need to change its mentality...winning must be the ultimate objective, and failure is not an option either. We are in an (open) competition without restriction of any kind eg age, maturity, etc.

Forget about the pundits; they are usually former players (not former highly regarded/experienced managers) and paid thus, possess a propensity to not alienate the sport or present professionals or supporters.

Taking part, looking and behaving graciously post defeats are just not good enough (anymore), winning is!
Report ffaith July 12, 2018 12:50 PM BST
Nor sure but I don't think creating chances in open play was our problem.  TAKING our chances from open play was.
Report differentdrum July 12, 2018 1:14 PM BST
No, both creating and taking chances in open play was a massive problem. The trump card was Sterling's pace but time and again there was no end product to that pace. We had plenty of possession at times but rarely strung together a series of passes that meant anything in terms of scoring.

The public got behind them but in the end they had a great opportunity and came up short.

Tiredness and lack of quality. Short term couldn't do much about the quality but not much of an excuse for being tired, particularly as most of them had a game off. Most had 'gone' shortly into the second half.

Defence was an accident waiting to happen. Once the legs in front of them had gone they were exposed.

The tide clearly turned last night and the manager couldn't/didn't do anything to change the course of the match.

There is not enough basic quality for this squad to win future Championships even with this experience. Unless of course they get another soft draw and even then they will probably muck it up. The expectation level has now been raised. They didn't cope with that last night and no guarantee they will in the future.

They acquitted themselves better than many of the previous under achievers but given the draw that wasn't difficult.
Report stu July 12, 2018 1:30 PM BST
There's only one side that actually wins the world cup each time - all the other vaunted sides failed too you all know....?
Report Fela Kuti July 12, 2018 2:00 PM BST
Report mafeking July 12, 2018 3:02 PM BST
first time in at least 20 years england were better than the sum of their parts which is all you can for really. they actually had a plan and looked like they knew what they were supposed to be doing. southgate deserves huge credit for that
Report mesmerised July 12, 2018 3:08 PM BST
Winning every game as favourite, then losing a game as favourite, doesn't strike me as team that is greater than the sum of it's parts, surely that can only be the case when you are winning matches you are not expected it, Croatia have won 2 matches as underdogs.
Report DirkDiggler July 12, 2018 3:13 PM BST
Very happy in general, exceeded everyone's expectations, ruined the summer for the sweaties who couldn't even go and mow the lawn to soothe their rage as the grass had stopped growing.

Didn't pass the ball well-enough, Southgate did not change tactics when it glaringly obvious the game was slipping away after HT, wasted another six games on a 'footballer in name only' up front.

Something to build on, will need a much better midfield and someone who can actually play football to compliment Kane.
Report n88uk July 12, 2018 3:48 PM BST

Jul 12, 2018 -- 9:08AM, mesmerised wrote:

Winning every game as favourite, then losing a game as favourite, doesn't strike me as team that is greater than the sum of it's parts, surely that can only be the case when you are winning matches you are not expected it, Croatia have won 2 matches as underdogs.

It's how far you go though. Germany were favourites every round to the final in 2002 but they were still exceeding the sum of the parts given they didn't have a great team at the time.

There's no way England's squad is in the top 4 in the tournament, and on Croatia they have just exceeded expectations even more than England as same applies to them.

Report gibmark July 12, 2018 3:55 PM BST

Jul 12, 2018 -- 9:08AM, mesmerised wrote:

Winning every game as favourite, then losing a game as favourite, doesn't strike me as team that is greater than the sum of it's parts, surely that can only be the case when you are winning matches you are not expected it, Croatia have won 2 matches as underdogs.

there are a few Englishmen who would lay England , but most would want them to win , so huge amount of bets from population 12 times that of Croatia , not to mention far better average wealth flattered Englands odds

Report mesmerised July 12, 2018 4:01 PM BST
There is no way you can possibly be greater than the sum of your parts if you are favourite for every match and win those matches, then lose one of the matches you were also favourite in, it just makes no logical sense.

It's got nothing to do with how far you go, given they were favourites in every match, they were expected to get to the final but lost in the semi's.

Leicester were greater than the sum of their parts, every single match against the top 6 they were odds against with a squad value far lower, yet somehow won the title after 38 games. England winning 4 matches as favs and losing 1 does not = being greater than the sum of their parts.
Report hulk23 July 12, 2018 4:09 PM BST
we were 9/4 to get knocked out in the QF pre tournament.  so that was expected.  we went one better, largely due to the draw.
don't quite get all the palaver, odds on to reach the final, one up and failed.
Report stu July 12, 2018 4:32 PM BST
Think it says a lot that expectations have obviously been raised by this side, and their WC performance.

Year's gone by we'd have been happy to scrape a quarters with a few lucky 1-1 and 1-0's deflected goals in the WC...
Report stu July 12, 2018 4:33 PM BST
This lot have made us disappointed to make the semis...
Report Rider July 12, 2018 5:05 PM BST
mesmerised, if a team are even money favourites to win in 10 separate games how many do they need to win to have overachieved, iyo ?
Report mesmerised July 12, 2018 5:34 PM BST
that's shifting the goalposts.

The question in hand is, were England greater than the sum of their parts, did they outperform expectations, and they didn't based upon the level of teams they came up against, a good indication (but not the only factor) of this is squad values, England's squad value (£786.6m) is higher than Tunisia (£52.99m) / Panama (£5.65m) / Colombia (£225.99m) / Sweden's (£107.78m) and Croatia's (£327.6) and by some distance, more than double of Croatia's, 7 times+ higher than Sweden's and more than 3 times higher than Colombia's.

Croatia have the 9th most valuable squad at the World Cup, have got to the final, and were outsiders in two of their 6 knockout matches.
Report mesmerised July 12, 2018 5:35 PM BST
1 of their 6 KO games, 1 in their groups.
Report hulk23 July 12, 2018 5:37 PM BST
if it was all about 'value' neymar would have been running rings round everyone instead of falling about like a complete arsenalhole ..
Report thelatarps July 12, 2018 5:42 PM BST
There is no way 2 ways around it.
Last nights defeat was an historic failure.
I can not remember the last time a large established football nation like England, former world cup winners, lost a semi final to a small nation like croatia. Which has barely been in existence for 25 years.
Lets face it, international football isnt all that is it?
Looks like france, a team who play with 3 forwards, 7 defenders and a GK are going to be champions.
Marshalled from midfield by a player who is not far short of a complete liability for Jose at Man U.
Southgate for all his success with the media and his preparation let himself down on tactics, as we always knew he would going on his record at club level.
His rigid reliance on what became a back 5 was a huge factor in croatia's success. The only trump card they had was the midfield and england let them play it over and over again. The reliance on the same xi, no squad rotation, was looking to be a problem as far back as the colombian game.

And btw Luka was right.
The arrogance from the english media was almost suffocating.
The colombian game was something of a watershed. The insufferable Sun newspaper with its 'Go Kane' headline showed that far from '50 years of hurt', one sniff of success for the english and its like queen victoria was back in charge of an empire which covered 50% of the globe.
This 'football's coming home' nonsense didnt go unnoticed around the world, especially in the spanish speaking parts.
I believe the FIFA website lists chin dynasty china as the first recorded instance of 'foot ball' so  the rest of the world looks on in bemusement.  Judging from what i have seen on twitter there has been widespread rejoicing at the removal of the three lions in south america. Which isnt suprising at all if you consider the ungracious attitude displayed toward what was a pretty heroic effort by colombia.
It was redolent of Alf Ramseys fateful 'animals' quote which pretty much destroyed england in mexico.
And so it goes on.
Failure followed by boorish behaviour.
Roll on the premier league.
Report 1st time poster July 12, 2018 5:43 PM BST
croats are not a decent very good side ,they peaked against argentina ,turned out everyones best performance was against argentina, they could easily have been beaten by Denmark,russia,england anda group game,very average which we will probably see on sunday
I didn't enjoy englands style thought they had a premeditated policy of going down getting easy free kicks and making the most of set pieces, if you play pragmatic football results are the only thing you have left to hang onto,winning is everything,despite looking like a revolution when fat sam went ,we,ve ended up playing like a fat sam side,go down under contact,make the most of set pieces and get the players to especially earlir in the tournament to make the most of VAR,
we,ll never hear about it because not taking or playing injured players was supposedly part of the southgate revolution,but lots of us will need convincing kane and ali were 100% fit

if we lose on sat whoever plays that would be 3 defeats,1 draw in 90 mins [ columbia] , and a 5th minute injury time set piece to beat tunisia,hardly a revolution imo,and lets remember southgate stumbled on this 11 without injuries lalana,oxo,gomez,may all have started
Report mesmerised July 12, 2018 5:46 PM BST
I didn't say it was all about squad value I said it was a part of it, Neymar's actual selling fee (that included a buy out clause) is seperate from his true valuation according to transfermarkt - which is £159,000,000, and although I think he's overrated most don't so it's his market value.
Report RozelKid July 12, 2018 5:56 PM BST
A masterclass of marketing by the FA - To make a shambles look a success.

I dont hold any of the players responsible.......only the management and tactics in midfield.
Report detraveller July 12, 2018 6:09 PM BST
I found it really irritating how everyone was chanting #itscominghome after beating Tunisia and Panama. Like why the feck is it coming home dude? I think such slogans already put pressure on a team that(in my opinion) didn't look street smart and was bound to fk up under pressure.
Report skygreenzone July 12, 2018 6:19 PM BST
Failed.So failures thats summed it up.
Report hulk23 July 12, 2018 6:23 PM BST
getting dumped out of a tournament by iceland (population 1,385) is the new benchmark.  compared to that this was a fkn brilliant display ..
Report mafeking July 12, 2018 6:26 PM BST
some perspective required surely. england were coming to this world cup from such a low base. the last 10 years have been an absolute shambles. previous 5 tournaments were DNQ, L16  annihilated by germany, QF so outplayed by italy it was like a non league team against a prem side how we got to penalties i'll never know, L32 and L16 with the worst result ever in a major match
Report mesmerised July 12, 2018 6:28 PM BST
Following on from Steve McClaren and Roy Hodgson is not really a great reference point. Things could only have got better. To be fair to Roy, he was parachuted in at Euro 2012 and barely had any time to prepare, 2014 was the group of death with Uruguay and Italy, it was Iceland that was the real humiliation.
Report DIE LINKE July 12, 2018 6:31 PM BST
Not surprised at the w@nkrag press, the beer throwers or the johnny-come-latelies, but surprised at hardened Billy Bunters on here getting giddier than a kid on Christmas Eve.
Report skygreenzone July 12, 2018 6:58 PM BST
Wales got to the semi final in the euros.Where were they at the world cup.We had an easy draw to the semi final at reverted to type against croatia so we haven't learned anything from the past.Why loftus-cheek didn't get more of a chance following his performance against panama is a mystery to me.
Report 1st time poster July 12, 2018 7:01 PM BST
ffs panama are a pub side,they even brought pickled onions,black pudding,chunks of cheese on a stick and crackers into the england dressing room safter the game
Report skygreenzone July 12, 2018 7:04 PM BST
Pub side maybe but we were winning 5-0 at half time and what exactly did dele ali do last night apart from getting fouled for the free kick.
Report stu July 12, 2018 7:05 PM BST
mafeking 12 Jul 18 18:26 Joined: 24 Sep 02 | Topic/replies: 16,983 | Blogger: mafeking's blog
some perspective required surely. england were coming to this world cup from such a low base. the last 10 years have been an absolute shambles. previous 5 tournaments were DNQ, L16  annihilated by germany, QF so outplayed by italy it was like a non league team against a prem side how we got to penalties i'll never know, L32 and L16 with the worst result ever in a major match

Exactly mafeking - the problem is there are so many on here simply wanting to downplay our final result in this WC. For many different reasons, but says way more about them than the actual achievement by the England team. I'm looking forward to how long it takes Scotland to make a group stage, let alone a semi-final.
Report skygreenzone July 12, 2018 7:08 PM BST
Scotland population around 5.6 million.Croatia 4 million so if they can do why can't scotland?
Report mesmerised July 12, 2018 7:09 PM BST
my follow up post completely debunked that, he was following McClaren and Hodgson, hardly lofty starting point, it was England losing to ICELAND - that is beneath Rock Bottom.

You have to say it the way it is and not just cheerlead the whole time, that's what the coaching team should be doing, otherwise it's a case of Rinsing and repeating the same mistakes.
Report 1st time poster July 12, 2018 7:16 PM BST
ffs 23 hrs ago winning the world cup was on the agenda now its panama and scotland we,re judging ourselves against
Report stu July 12, 2018 7:18 PM BST
We'd have lost to (either) Columbia or Sweden in the past (at least quite possibly), so no.

You can celebrate the wins, or focus on the single real loss basically.
Report Emitdeb July 12, 2018 9:35 PM BST
We were a Gaza or a Gareth Bale short of winning the thing... imo.
Report SontaranStratagem July 12, 2018 10:02 PM BST
"Lets give them a heroes welcome when they return home"

Finishing 4th would deserve a heroes welcome? finishing 3rd is decent but hardly something to crow about, 3rd would be a good tournament but christ almighty they are talking about knighting them and giving them a victory parade for it

God help this country if we ever got into another world war, with that mentality we'd get a right hiding and think we did well despite it

This country needs to change his mentality, the world will be pi***** themselves if they welcome them back as heroes for finishing 4th Cry
Report SontaranStratagem July 12, 2018 10:04 PM BST
Can you imagine a man like Roy Keane accepting failure like that last night as some sort of heroic achievement?

If these players accept that tag they are shameless imo

Could you imagine a bloke like Tyson Fury getting sparked out in the 11th and then thinking he was a hero because he got so far only to fail?

Report Emitdeb July 12, 2018 10:08 PM BST
If we were one of the minor home Nations like scotland wales or ireland.. Then yeah without doubt ticker tape open top bus Parade... But England, come on, were better than that... imo.
Report differentdrum July 12, 2018 11:18 PM BST
Problem is the media have built them up as heroes so they are not going to do an about turn and make a realistic appraisal. So the heroes welcome will be on the agenda whether they finish third or fourth.

Lots of the cheerleaders wouldn't know one end of a football pitch from another. The England team delivered a few piss-ups for the masses and sadly a lot of people will see that as a success.
Report everyone's a winner July 13, 2018 12:06 AM BST
now the dust has settled, my summing up would be..

Report mafeking July 13, 2018 12:47 AM BST
however and whoever they played it was a minor miracle they went from the iceland shambles to the brink of the world cup final. in due course there may be some realism but don't think many people want to hear that at the moment

go back to italia 90 and everyone thought that was just the start too. following tournament was another shambles and we didn't even qualify for the next world cup
Report sofaking July 13, 2018 3:02 AM BST
Report 1st time poster July 13, 2018 4:31 AM BST
every premier lg club,manager thinks he,s 2/3 signings from winning the EPL
Report grumpyjim July 13, 2018 5:29 AM BST
no doubt the chance of a world cup almost landed on these shores ..   a long time before such a good chance will come along .. 
believed a final at least beckoned ..but not to be ..  a game of two halves right enough .. done well till rot set .in .  NORMAL  ?. all changes made were a disgrace in second half .. failed at  getting more out of the squad ..
manager carries the can . as always .  next ..... for a chance .. fans in their  50 age group all saying never see the cup again in there lifetime ... sums it up .. last chance  saloon for them .. Tears in the eyes ..
Funny  thought .. where was ROONEY WHEN NEEDED  .. no parties please to add .. salt to the wound ..
Report mesmerised July 13, 2018 8:59 AM BST
how was it a miracleLaugh

in was 1 single 90 minute game, that England team v Iceland had a few league title winners and mostly from top 4 clubs in one of the best leagues in the world, beating Tunisia, Panama, Colombia on pens and Sweden is no Leicester fairytale story, it sounds good, brink of a world cup final, but in reality we beat 4 average to mediocre teams.
Report jed.davison July 13, 2018 9:21 AM BST
All comes back to the same point mesmerised - when England needed someone in the midfield who was not scared of possession, who would not spray first time passes into touch, and who could make forward passes instead of sideways and backwards passes, they had Jordan Henderson and Eric Dier, and Jack Wilshere was in Switzerland meeting his new West Ham teammates.
Report lurka July 13, 2018 10:05 AM BST
When England sat back in the second half and in ET, Trippier and Young picked up Rebic and Perisic and played as full backs in a back 5, meaning that your 3 centre halves were occupied by Mandzukic only and your wing-backs were pushed right back. Henderson sat in front of the back 3 and Alli and Lingard sat in front of Modric and Rakitic. Modric and Rakitic continually sprayed balls right and left to the full backs who had acres of space, as you had nobody on the flanks in midfield and you invited numerous crosses into the box, which resulted in the equaliser.

Southgate continued to play 2 up front instead of putting an extra man into midfield and covering the flanks. IMO England should never have sat back as their defence is not a backs to the wall shut up shop defence and they should have pushed their full backs on and gone for a second in the second half. But if you are going to sit back and defend deeper and deeper, Southgate needed to change his system and pull enough bodies back to give the defence cover. He invited increasing pressure and did nothing tactically to counter it. That was very naive.

With Croatia's full backs pushing up into empty space they effectively became midfielders/wingers and it was like 4 v 2 in midfield with Henderson dropping deep in front of the defence, Alli and Lingard in midfield chasing shadows against Modric, Rakitic and the two full backs. People go on about Modric being the guy who knits it all together and I've even seen people say that England need a player like him who can play a killer ball but he did nothing of the sort. He just played simple balls into the space for the full backs.

England need a player in midfield who can keep possession and create but they played with 3 centre halves against 1 striker, a DM in front of them who did nothing and didn't offer any cover against the threat from the flanks, and 2 midfielders who are more like attackers than CMs against 2 quality CMs and 2 effective wingers.
Report stu July 13, 2018 10:08 AM BST
mes Sweden were partly responsible for putting out the Germans, would we have said the same if it had been Germany we got past instead of Sweden?

We did in fact do better than Germany, just as a reminder.
Report lurka July 13, 2018 10:10 AM BST
When you won the ball back you had nobody to pass to. You had no width in midfield and Alli and Lingard were outnumbered in midfield and the ball just kept going long and coming straight back at you from the flanks. A smarter tactical manager might have got to penalties or better from the 1-0 position despite England's lack of quality in midfield. Croatia didn't create much until England sat back and made it easy on them.
Report ffaith July 13, 2018 10:37 AM BST

"glorious" failure... once again
Carrying unfit star players... yet again
Long balls not enough courage on the ball
Southgate tactically clueless in responding to the flow of a game
Like for like substitutes.  A bit unimaginative.
In the heat of battle when boldness was called for Southgate went meek/conservative
Cowardly strategy rejoicing we lost to Belgium


Fairly young team
Report GoBallistic July 13, 2018 11:09 AM BST
It's a pretty moderate squad - short of good players and worse still very unbalanced.  Most of the good players play the same position (right back).  You can sort of understand why the manager has switched to a formation that most of them don't normally play in order to crowbar Walker, Trippier and Young into the same team although I hope going forward he reverts to a back 4 and goes with round pegs in round holes.  They actually seem to have stumbled on a decent CB partnership so pick your best RB, find a LB and you might have a strong defence

The good news is we seem to have accidentally stumbled upon a manager who is going to get a proper international setup from youth teams to the full national team.  Also a manager who has made an England team that is a bit more fun to watch.  Thank God Allardyce did us all a favour by getting himself sacked
Report skygreenzone July 13, 2018 5:42 PM BST
The whole world cup was full of moderate teams.
Report gibmark July 13, 2018 7:03 PM BST
that's right , Englands didn't do well as everybody is rubbish ....unbelievable !
Report skygreenzone July 13, 2018 7:07 PM BST
Can someone explain to me why we did well.I do not understand.
Report 1st time poster July 13, 2018 7:17 PM BST
now the camera,s are off and itv,bbc and the pundits don't have to build the competition and England into something it wasn't ,they wernt,as time goes by it will probably be seen as a wasted chance through the door and we beat the teams we were entitled to beat and lost to the ones we wernt,simples
Report skygreenzone July 13, 2018 7:20 PM BST
All we needed was for the team to be men.They played when under pressure like an u21 team no leaders,no balls,no shame just did not know what to do against colombia and croatia.Sweden and panama good performance so  can't be critical.Against tunisia got out of jail after a poor performance.Problem is now all the glory boy fans will think we are world beaters,its gonna be downhill from here because the manager is also clueless.
Report morpteh mackem July 13, 2018 7:37 PM BST
for a couple of weeks a lot of people in england  enjoyed themselves, and whats wrong with that ?
Report skygreenzone July 13, 2018 7:41 PM BST
Nothing but for real football fans this was an unbelievable opportunity to get to the final,it means the world to true fans.England have been poor for so long.When we had the best players on paper in the past we were poor.We always play with fear now.It was croatia and in the 2nd half and extra time we made them look like brazil 1970.
Report black shuck July 13, 2018 7:56 PM BST
Better than expected..but only because of a very very soft route..first half tidy side put us out..
Actually woeful at times when a clear footballing head was needed..
Manager made hodgson look the chump he is..but really didnt cut it for me
Goals came from free kicks pens and corners..they all count but....
Future hmmmm...expectation up..reality of manager, world class players?? Hmmmm...
Some encouragement but ....
Report Emitdeb July 13, 2018 8:28 PM BST

Report roache July 15, 2018 3:28 PM BST
The Colombian game showed the danger of sitting on a 1 goal lead yet Southgate failed to learn from this and instead of going for the 2nd goal in the 2nd half sat back and invited pressure leading to a repeat of the Colombian game.
Report betting_masta July 15, 2018 3:45 PM BST
team has same old frailties: can't build on a 1 -goal lead against good teams, goes into their shell, long-ball tactics or scared midfielders who can't protect and keep the ball. forwards who can't keep the ball. the only players who can keep the ball are the defenders and when they're on the ball sometimes england are at their most vulnerable. the players need to learn to love the ball, sleep with the ball, because they seem frightened of it
Report gibmark July 15, 2018 4:53 PM BST

Jul 13, 2018 -- 1:41PM, skygreenzone wrote:

Nothing but for real football fans this was an unbelievable opportunity to get to the final,it means the world to true fans.England have been poor for so long.When we had the best players on paper in the past we were poor.We always play with fear now.It was croatia and in the 2nd half and extra time we made them look like brazil 1970.

France doing the same

Report roache July 15, 2018 6:55 PM BST
To sum up Englands world cup i present my evidence = Raheem Sterling Cry
Report ericster July 15, 2018 7:01 PM BST
Sure we have holes to fill and there's room for improvement but the manager has the squad playing for him. Itsa start.
Report detraveller July 15, 2018 7:09 PM BST
This has to be the perfect summary.

England lost because the expectations rose too early for no reason. #itscominghome
Report 1st time poster July 15, 2018 7:11 PM BST
if the world cup was played next week  with an open draw theres about 12 teams I,d fancy to knock us out,add in likely  improvements from Italy,holland etc ,we,ll need snookers to get in any semi finals in the near future,imo
Report ericster July 15, 2018 7:18 PM BST

Jul 15, 2018 -- 1:11PM, 1st time poster wrote:

if the world cup was played next week

Report ericster July 15, 2018 7:22 PM BST
Oh dear,
I messed up.

1st time,

I can't argue with what you've said there but;

The likes of Holland, and Italy, DIDN'T turn up.
Our boys, and they ARE still only boys, had the busman's holiday of a lifetime.
We dared to dream. they TRIED. And credit too them.
Report 1st time poster July 15, 2018 7:32 PM BST
don't fall for the lazy pundits line of players get better as they get older, owen,rooney,gazza,becks all had theiur best tournaments in their 1st ,earlier tournamernts ,the older they got the worse they got, a couple of years of the likes of the special one flogging the likes of linngard,rashford up and down the wing,tracking back,filling in,etc and they,ll fade away, if the theory worked the likes of jones,smalling,barclay,wiltshire,walycoot,hart,etc,etc would be at their peak
Report ericster July 15, 2018 7:35 PM BST
Fair comment 1st time.Sad
Report stroodle July 15, 2018 11:35 PM BST
Report impossible123 July 16, 2018 6:15 PM BST
I think if the English players were to be playing abroad they would toughen up, be more focused, open to new footballing ideas, challenged more, and hungry for success whilst at home where most of them ply their trade these character building and skill enhancing qualities will be missing which are vital to their development as individuals and great footballers.

The best footballers in Britain need to go abroad to better themselves, I firmly believe.
Report Racingqueen July 16, 2018 6:39 PM BST
look at Daniel Sturridge. Choose an absolute rag outfit like WBA cos he wanted to be close to family.

Michael Owen whinged about how he had to live in a hotel and how his poor wife couldn't cope during his year in Madrid.
Report ffaith July 16, 2018 7:02 PM BST
Bale is a great player but according to the media he was happy that ZZ left as the new RM manager can speak English!!.  The f ucker has been in Madrid for 5 years.
So typical of the insular British mentality.  Lazy and complacent unwilling to embrace change
Report lurka July 16, 2018 7:16 PM BST
What foreign club is going to A) seriously consider signing any of the England players AND B) pay them more than what they'd get in England and the ridiculous transfer fees they'd command?
They are not going to take a pay cut to move to a foreign country. The clubs can get a better player for lower wages and a much cheaper transfer fee. Forget about the current crop of players, they are not going to turn into world beaters at this stage of their lives. It's the kids that need to be coached better, which is apparently what the FA have been doing.

The PL is full of foreigners who can't speak a word of English. Look at eg Aguero. Dunno why you are giving Bale stick? They are footballers, generally thick and not into learning anything. It's not a British thing.
Report hfink July 16, 2018 7:48 PM BST
You're right. Gareth Bale is thick and he took up football because he messed up THE ALGEBRA.
Report betting_masta July 16, 2018 8:02 PM BST
the kids are getting there but their attitude is that of they are the best already and they have nothing to prove, plus they will find it extremely difficult to break into club teams and therefore get enough games and experience to become top players. in a four-word summation: English football is F*cked
Report thelatarps July 16, 2018 8:19 PM BST
Young players and their development are never going to be a problem for england.
Lookman and sancho have gone to the bundesliga
Plenty others will go to the championship, which btw is one of the biggest leagues in world football.
Some others will be content just earning big money as epl squad players for a couple of years. But they were never going to be motivated enough  to reach the top of the game anyway.
For england to succeed all it takes is for southgate to develop a squad from the talent that is already there in english football.
If he is going to bleat about the lack of english players in champions league clubs then he is doomed.
Its not ucl players he needs, it is international players. And they need experience in international games. He can find them in the epl, the championship all over the place. He has to do his job, thats all.
Report charwell. July 17, 2018 1:30 PM BST
Like the very average bunch of players who are hyped up beyond belief. Mediocre at best. Lost v only 2 decent sides faced.
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