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27 Dec 10 00:11
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Date Joined: 12 Mar 02
| Topic/replies: 38,880 | Blogger: peter the butcher's blog
Not long before transfer window opens and although Sir Alex Ferguson says he is not a big fan of the January opportunity, he has been known to come up with the odd surprise!

Newspapers say Pepe Reina is a target. True he is unsettled at United but would he move to United knowing the "rumpus" that caused. Also United have earmarked young Anders Lindergaard as the long time successor to Van Der Sar but Reina much better at the moment.

The other name that keeps getting mentioned at Old Trafford is the Chilean winger Alexis Sanchez. I heard that Inter were going to sign him but he is waiting to see if United move for him first. Not sure about truth in this because Antonio Valencia is making a quicker recovery than first thought and I would have thought Sir Alex might be prioritising  a centre half and midfielder but who knows.

Anderson is starting to show a lot more of his undoubted ability but the defence is key for United if they want another title. Sunderland were not great today but United's defence was absolutely solid, unlike much of this season. Anyway we will find out a bit more at Birmingham on Tuesday as they will be tested a lot more by a fresh side with plenty of time to prepare.

Anyway good luck to fans at all clubs in this festive period. It could go a long way to deciding your season.

For United fans looking for a 19th title-  BELIEVE
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Report Ozymandius October 22, 2014 11:50 PM BST
He was a key employee in a business they owned.  Hence the placation.

Offering him coverings does not equate to handing him money.
Report peter the butcher October 22, 2014 11:51 PM BST
how much would you expect from eight coverings a year in this case beeb?


I have worked it out at around 60k each but surely it varies depending on results.
Report sofiakenny October 22, 2014 11:51 PM BST
peter..dont waste your breath..this Ozzy fellow knows it all.
Report peter the butcher October 22, 2014 11:51 PM BST
That's the point Ozy, he refused the coverings and they paid him money instead.
Report Ozymandius October 22, 2014 11:53 PM BST
Either greed got the better of his judgement or he has little concept of right or wrong.
Report bbc2 October 22, 2014 11:57 PM BST
this year its 12500 per serving
Report bbc2 October 22, 2014 11:58 PM BST
in his first year it could have been over 100k per serving
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 12:00 AM BST
obviously his offspring have not been world beaters
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 12:01 AM BST
As regards the 2.5m  paid, it was peanuts from Magniers pov, just to get the thing done and move on, no omre legal fees and distractions and negative publicity.  He was humiliated that his word was even being questioned.

Plus he knew his stake of Utd was worth a lot more with Fergie still on board.
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 12:05 AM BST
my expertise is greyhounds where frozen straws are now the norm.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:16 AM BST
In Ferguson's opinion the fact that Magnier paid him 2.5m to keep it out of court proved he was right.

I don't thnk 2.5m meant too much to either man tbh but it was the principle in Ferguson's mind. Make no mistake if the United conflict hadn't existed Ferguson would have taken it all the way.

Personally i don't think Magnier was trying it on or ripping Ferguson off in which case its not surprising that he was upset.

They should have made it clear from the beginning what the stud issue was.

Its obvious they haven't and in all honesty a judge looking at the entry with Weatherby's showing the owner being the Rock Of Gibraltor Syndicate would have almost certainly sided with Ferguson. All Ferguson had to do was show the registration with Horse Racing Ireland, all the media interviews in which Ferguson was clearly part of the syndicate, the colours it ran in etc etc.

Very strong chance that Ferguson would have won that case unless Magnier could prove he had told Ferguson from the beginning and that didn't happen.

Ferguson should still have let it drop but he's never been that kind of bloke who backs off has he?
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 12:36 AM BST
I sent you a PM on the matter btw, Peter.

They should have made it clear from the beginning what the stud issue was.

Agreed.  The reasons why it wasn't we have discussed.

As regards Fergie winning the case.....I don't know, it's highly complicated.
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 10:38 AM BST
Yesterdays discussion about ROG whetted my appetite to go back and refresh my memory on certain aspects of the whole fascinating affair.

I dug out a few salient points, as follows.  Tings that I had forgotten or didn't know.  It's a shame in some ways that it never went to Court because we might have got to the bottom of it.  As such there is a lot of speculation and allegation surrounding the case, so all the following points have to be appraised in that light.

* Apparently SAF was gifted a horse (or two) by Coolmore prior to ROG.  I believe one hose raced three times, winning once and doing ok but was no world beater and was subsequently sold to the USA.  It would be fascinating to know if SAF received any proceeds of that sale.

* By the time ROG was ‘gifted’ to SAF, it had won a Group 3 as a 2 year old, so it is not as if the prospect of the horse going to stud was inconceivable or a long shot and unconsidered by Coolmore as some claim.

* Magnier even refutes claim that SAF was due 50% of the prize money earned.  He maintains the arrangement was for 5% of the prize money and a single covering per year, i.e what a trainer or jockey would expect to receive

* Ferguson was vague about exactly when he acquired his half-share and what it entailed. In one instance, he phoned Coolmore to find out when he could expect some money from The Rock's exploits at stud. 'What money?' is the curt reply. It was during this period that an anguished Ferguson kicked the boot that bloodied David Beckham's face.

* Mike Dillon, the PR director of Ladbrokes, was apparently on record as saying Sir Alex paid £120,000 for his half share in Rock of Gibraltar.  It is not clear if this was paid directly or in the form of withheld prize money. If true, this would change everything.  From what I can make out, he subsequently backed away from this assertion.

* The registration at the Irish Turf Club which suggests that SAF owns 50% is said to have no legal standing.

* It is rumoured that Magnier lodged a 'side letter' with the racing authorities,  clarifying the ownership of the horse.

* One wonders if there is any  documentation registered that indicates the precise % make up of the ‘ROG syndicate' as referenced in the Wetherbys registration.

* There must have been precedents of this situation, whereby a horse was gifted to race in someone else colours and duly went to stud or was sold on for big money.  Can’t find any reference to any though.

* An initial £7-8 million settlement offer was reportedly rejected.  At this point Magnier's attitude was allegedly ‘if you are going to come and have a go at me on my turf, I will go and have a go at you on yours’.  Detectives were hired and a couple of months later, SAF accepted a greatly reduced offer of 2.5m.

* Ferguson clearly had a lot to hide, he had bitten off more than he could chew in taking on Magnier, Magnier had found out things that Ferguson didn't want to see the light of day, Ferguson didn't want the 99 questions to be made public and he quickly dropped the lawsuit and settled for the lesser figure.  It is likely that the 99 questions and Kroll's investigative findings have been locked in a safe somewhere in Ireland, just in case in the not too distant future someone needs reminding who their daddy is (Note, not my words Peter, though I probably should have edited them, given your sensitivities where SAF is concerned Wink)

* One wonders if SAf was swayed by greedy legal people and advisors such as Alistar Campbell to proceed on the basis that technically he may have had a case.  Even if the wider world and racing community felt that morally he had no case.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 11:14 AM BST
What a load of ifs and buts ffs Ozy.

Not too one sided a post that one, is it
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 11:24 AM BST
Ozymandius 23 Oct 14 10:38 Joined: 01 Jul 11 | Topic/replies: 11,727 | Blogger: Ozymandius's blog
Yesterdays discussion about ROG whetted my appetite to go back and refresh my memory on certain aspects of the whole fascinating affair.

I dug out a few salient points, as follows.  Tings that I had forgotten or didn't know.  It's a shame in some ways that it never went to Court because we might have got to the bottom of it.  As such there is a lot of speculation and allegation surrounding the case, so all the following points have to be appraised in that light.

* Apparently SAF was gifted a horse (or two) by Coolmore prior to ROG.  I believe one hose raced three times, winning once and doing ok but was no world beater and was subsequently sold to the USA.  It would be fascinating to know if SAF received any proceeds of that sale. ie lets make out he did

* By the time ROG was ‘gifted’ to SAF, it had won a Group 3 as a 2 year old, so it is not as if the prospect of the horse going to stud was inconceivable or a long shot and unconsidered by Coolmore as some claim. It wasn't considered top class relative to his other horses as it wasn't impressive, that much is known

* Magnier even refutes claim that SAF was due 50% of the prize money earned.  He maintains the arrangement was for 5% of the prize money and a single covering per year, i.e what a trainer or jockey would expect to receive- How do we know this please?

* Ferguson was vague about exactly when he acquired his half-share and what it entailed. In one instance, he phoned Coolmore to find out when he could expect some money from The Rock's exploits at stud. 'What money?' is the curt reply. It was during this period that an anguished Ferguson kicked the boot that bloodied David Beckham's face. Vague to who? And because of the horse issue he kicks a boot at Beckham, f ucking hell OZZ..

* Mike Dillon, the PR director of Ladbrokes, was apparently on record as saying Sir Alex paid £120,000 for his half share in Rock of Gibraltar.  It is not clear if this was paid directly or in the form of withheld prize money. If true, this would change everything.  From what I can make out, he subsequently backed away from this assertion.

* The registration at the Irish Turf Club which suggests that SAF owns 50% is said to have no legal standing. oldesp said differently yesterday but I do believe Weatherby's registration is the important one for Stud purposes

* It is rumoured that Magnier lodged a 'side letter' with the racing authorities,  clarifying the ownership of the horse. It was rumoured I was once tipped a winner

* One wonders if there is any  documentation registered that indicates the precise % make up of the ‘ROG syndicate' as referenced in the Wetherbys registration.

* There must have been precedents of this situation, whereby a horse was gifted to race in someone else colours and duly went to stud or was sold on for big money.  Can’t find any reference to any though.

* An initial £7-8 million settlement offer was reportedly rejected.  At this point Magnier's attitude was allegedly ‘if you are going to come and have a go at me on my turf, I will go and have a go at you on yours’.  Detectives were hired and a couple of months later, SAF accepted a greatly reduced offer of 2.5m. So ferguson was scared the Magnier's were going to "get him" and backed down??

* Ferguson clearly had a lot to hide, he had bitten off more than he could chew in taking on Magnier, Magnier had found out things that Ferguson didn't want to see the light of day, Ferguson didn't want the 99 questions to be made public and he quickly dropped the lawsuit and settled for the lesser figure.  It is likely that the 99 questions and Kroll's investigative findings have been locked in a safe somewhere in Ireland, just in case in the not too distant future someone needs reminding who their daddy is (Note, not my words Peter, though I probably should have edited them, given your sensitivities where SAF is concerned Wink) The words of a fellow Irishman friendly with the Magniers I would think

* One wonders if SAf was swayed by greedy legal people and advisors such as Alistar Campbell to proceed on the basis that technically he may have had a case.  Even if the wider world and racing community felt that morally he had no case.
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 11:26 AM BST
Nw you attacke me for being fair and use qualifying statements!  Please note;

It's a shame in some ways that it never went to Court because we might have got to the bottom of it.  As such there is a lot of speculation and allegation surrounding the case, so all the following points have to be appraised in that light.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 11:32 AM BST
Whatever the ins and outs I have said many times that imo Ferguson was wrong to pursue the matter but the stud issue was not made clear at the beginning.

Had it been anybody other than Magnier you could have suspected that having got Ferguson to front the syndicate, registered him as a 50% owner with HRI and registered the owners as Rock Of Gibraltor Syndicate at Weatherbys (surely an ordinary person would say Ferguson was part of the syndicate???) they then realised how much the stud fees would get for the horse and cut him out of it.

Personally I don't think Magnier would have done that as reputation is more important to him.

legally Ferguson had a very good case but should have just dropped it once Magnier said he wasn't entitled to a share of stud fees.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 11:35 AM BST
Not attacking you Ozy, chill out man.

Just pointing out that its ridiculous to suggest things like "Ferguson kicked a boot at Beckham" insinuating it had something to do with his Rock Of Gibraltor issues?????
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 11:36 AM BST
Ozymandius 23 Oct 14 10:38 Joined: 01 Jul 11 | Topic/replies: 11,727 | Blogger: Ozymandius's blog
Yesterdays discussion about ROG whetted my appetite to go back and refresh my memory on certain aspects of the whole fascinating affair.

I dug out a few salient points, as follows.  Tings that I had forgotten or didn't know.  It's a shame in some ways that it never went to Court because we might have got to the bottom of it.  As such there is a lot of speculation and allegation surrounding the case, so all the following points have to be appraised in that light.

* Apparently SAF was gifted a horse (or two) by Coolmore prior to ROG.  I believe one hose raced three times, winning once and doing ok but was no world beater and was subsequently sold to the USA.  It would be fascinating to know if SAF received any proceeds of that sale. ie lets make out he did..Scratch that apparently, it did happen, just dont have the horses name to hand

* By the time ROG was ‘gifted’ to SAF, it had won a Group 3 as a 2 year old, so it is not as if the prospect of the horse going to stud was inconceivable or a long shot and unconsidered by Coolmore as some claim. It wasn't considered top class relative to his other horses as it wasn't impressive, that much is known  True, it was considered second string, but beat Hawk Wing , the alleged stable star in Group 3, its last race as a 2 YO...so clearly on the upgrade prior to gift.

* Magnier even refutes claim that SAF was due 50% of the prize money earned.  He maintains the arrangement was for 5% of the prize money and a single covering per year, i.e what a trainer or jockey would expect to receive- How do we know this please?  Am not going to annotate all my sources, too timely. gooogle it if you want

* Ferguson was vague about exactly when he acquired his half-share and what it entailed. In one instance, he phoned Coolmore to find out when he could expect some money from The Rock's exploits at stud. 'What money?' is the curt reply. It was during this period that an anguished Ferguson kicked the boot that bloodied David Beckham's face. Vague to who? EveybodyAnd because of the horse issue he kicks a boot at Beckham, f ucking hell OZZ.. dont be silly, thee were plenty of other factors, that goes without saying

* Mike Dillon, the PR director of Ladbrokes, was apparently on record as saying Sir Alex paid £120,000 for his half share in Rock of Gibraltar.  It is not clear if this was paid directly or in the form of withheld prize money. If true, this would change everything.  From what I can make out, he subsequently backed away from this assertion. No objection here I note to a pro Fergie point...LOL

* The registration at the Irish Turf Club which suggests that SAF owns 50% is said to have no legal standing. oldesp said differently yesterday but I do believe Weatherby's registration is the important one for Stud purposes

* It is rumoured that Magnier lodged a 'side letter' with the racing authorities,  clarifying the ownership of the horse. It was rumoured I was once tipped a winner  hence use of the word ruomur  Plus the HRi are a pliable bunch, they probably would have produced a back dated one anyway..Coolmore is rather important to HRI!

* One wonders if there is any  documentation registered that indicates the precise % make up of the ‘ROG syndicate' as referenced in the Wetherbys registration.  N

* There must have been precedents of this situation, whereby a horse was gifted to race in someone else colours and duly went to stud or was sold on for big money.  Can’t find any reference to any though.

* An initial £7-8 million settlement offer was reportedly rejected.  At this point Magnier's attitude was allegedly ‘if you are going to come and have a go at me on my turf, I will go and have a go at you on yours’.  Detectives were hired and a couple of months later, SAF accepted a greatly reduced offer of 2.5m. So ferguson was scared the Magnier's were going to "get him" and backed down??  yes, the word is they could have hung him out to dry, no surprise there

* Ferguson clearly had a lot to hide, he had bitten off more than he could chew in taking on Magnier, Magnier had found out things that Ferguson didn't want to see the light of day, Ferguson didn't want the 99 questions to be made public and he quickly dropped the lawsuit and settled for the lesser figure.  It is likely that the 99 questions and Kroll's investigative findings have been locked in a safe somewhere in Ireland, just in case in the not too distant future someone needs reminding who their daddy is (Note, not my words Peter, though I probably should have edited them, given your sensitivities where SAF is concerned Wink) The words of a fellow Irishman friendly with the Magniers I would think    I knew it wouldn't go down well!  Are you related to him?

* One wonders if SAf was swayed by greedy legal people and advisors such as Alistar Campbell to proceed on the basis that technically he may have had a case.  Even if the wider world and racing community felt that morally he had no case.
Report freddiek October 23, 2014 11:39 AM BST
Has Ferguson really put a new version of his book out just to deflect the blame from him over the Moyes appointment?? Jeesuss..
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 11:45 AM BST
Ozy,

I didn't "object" to the Mike Dillon "apparently on record as saying that Ferguson paid £120,000 for his share" because its true that he did say that. I could have commented about that favouring Ferguson because as you say if the £120k fee was true it would change everything.

The fact is that although Dillon did say it we don't know if its true.
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 11:49 AM BST
He did later distance himself from that statement.
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 11:50 AM BST
my opinion of saf is beginning to get a severe battering he has gone from god to mortal.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 11:52 AM BST
I suspect that Ferguson didn't pay 120k for his share because I can't see Magnier "welshing" on something as obvious as that but we just don't know, do we?
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 11:56 AM BST
For me, based on personal experience, Magnier's integrity is impregnable.

As regard the 120K  it would be easy to establish the truth of this from bankings record, had the case gone to court.  One suspects if monies had been paid or deferred SAF would have made a far bigger deal out of it than he did, because it would immediately put him in the right (assuming it wasn't seen as a leasing payment!)
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 12:01 PM BST
you two are like a dog with a boneLaugh
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:04 PM BST
Ferguson was offered 4 coverings in both Ireland and Australia every year or 2.5m pounds.

That is hardly Ferguson backing down. Yes I know in your earlier post you mention the rumours about a higher amount being offered earlier but that is what they are, rumours.

If Magnier was so upset at his integrity being questioned and was so sure he was legally right, and that he got investigators to dish the dirt on Ferguson why did he still pay him 2.5 million pounds?

I know the money is a drop in the ocean to him but he would know that the gesture makes it look like Ferguson was right.

No way was it a magnanimous gesture as they truly hated each other by then
Report Mikael D'Haguenet October 23, 2014 12:06 PM BST
Equallly, Ferguson accepting 'just' £2.5m is a gesture that makes Magnier look right.
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 12:10 PM BST
As previously stated, Magnier had to keep SAF reasonably sweet as he knew his stake in United was worth far more with SAF on board.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:12 PM BST
Fair point Mikael
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:15 PM BST
But we have to remember Ferguson was given his share as far as we know so him accepting 2.5m is slightly more understandable.

Put it this way, if Ferguson had paid 120K for his share and accepted "only" 2.5m it would have looked more like he was on dangerous ground legally.
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 12:18 PM BST
As previously stated, if Fergie had paid 120k he would have been shouting it from the rooftops. I don't believe he ever alluded to it even once.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:23 PM BST
Ozy, your point about keeping SAF on board is interesting.

At that time Ferguson was expecting the usual renewal of a long term contract but Magnier recommended that Ferguson only be given a rolling one year contract and at the same time he spent another 60m plus on United shares.

Not sure he was keeping Ferguson on board as much as a warning across his bows.

And DeSSie and others who say that Ferguson drove Magnier out and in turn selling to the Glaziers should be aware that Magnier made a fortune out of United and most of it due to Ferguson's on field success so maybe Magnier wanted to warn him but knew sacking him was a step too far.

Don't forget a load of blokes in black were on the case in Ireland and at racecourses where Magnier's horses were running so sacking Ferguson was always too difficult.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:24 PM BST
I have no idea whether he alluded to it or not, certainly publicly we never heard it from him.

As said before I doubt he paid 120k but we don't know.
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 12:27 PM BST
Of course he knew sacking Fergie was a step too far.

As regards the 'men in black' in Ireland...pmsl...this isn't Wazza or Gerrard you are trying to intimidate.
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 12:31 PM BST
First class Ozymandius, not for the first time, on the money. But as you know, Peter, who lambasts me for my standing by Rooney, has a signed book from Fergie. He'll fight to the death to protect his name.......

Peter.....did the Coolmore boys sell out of United because of Fergie or not in your opinion.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:32 PM BST
Hey you can't say that, they are professionals. It took them three days to get to Ireland because they went to Northern Ireland by mistake. then they took the ferry and were sea sick.

Then they couldn't find Clonmel and got p1ssed in dozens of bars whilst looking for it.

Top lads.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:36 PM BST
DeSSie they left United because they made around eighty million pound sheer profit from the sale.

If Ferguson forced them out do you think they would have left if they'd made an 80m pound loss?
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:38 PM BST
DeSSie, I have a signed book from numerous United players too but what's that got to do with it?
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 12:39 PM BST
When did I ever say Ferguson forced them out?
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:40 PM BST
You are insinuating they left because of Ferguson or is that not the case?
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 12:41 PM BST
Rather they were absolutey appalled at his behavior and could no longer stand being associated so sold out (as they were perfectly entitled to do). Would they have sold out WITHOUT the Fergie affair do you think?
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:44 PM BST
Yes I'm pretty sure that with £80m profit in front of them they would have sold out.

Its all about business for them
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:46 PM BST
DeSS, if they were so appalled by Ferguson's behaviour why did they spend another £60m on United shares whilst the dispute was still going on?
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 12:50 PM BST
omg are you now saying they weren't appalled at Fergies behaviour?
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 12:53 PM BST
No idea whether they were appalled or not but I would imagine they weren't happy.

Is that the reason they sold is what you asked and I'm telling you that they bought 60m pounds worth of shares whilst they were "appalled" if that's what they were.
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 12:56 PM BST
Maybe they determined it was a good time to invest more, whether it be towards making a killing, or towards future ownership of the club?
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 1:02 PM BST
It is safe to say they were appalled.

The 60m purchase boiled down to the correct assumption that the Company was undervalued.  It was business and a good piece of business.  Remember Cubic Expression was not just Magnier.

Its impossible to know if they would have considered long term ownership or could foresee the unlocking of value that the Glazers went on to achieve.  Or if the horse issue contributed to their decision to take the Glazer money and and walk.  One suspects it might but also they were probably never in it for the long haul anyway.
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 1:03 PM BST
Maybe they hadn't yet got to the point where they said, "Right, **** it, had enough of this man, lets sell the fecking lot to the highest bidder" Enter the much loved Glazers.......
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 1:04 PM BST
Yes I would think it was a business decision to make more money in the long run.

The point, is that the dispute was already in full flow at that time so there would have been no point risking money if they wanted to leave because they were "appalled" with Ferguson.

Magnier isn't the type of bloke to run away from something.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 1:06 PM BST
Yep pretty much agree with most of your post  at 13.02 Ozy, not sure appalled is the right word but maybe they were, who knows.
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 1:08 PM BST
I know.

And who wouldn't be appalled?
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 1:08 PM BST
looking at it logically i guess coolmore and saf were quite friendly hence the horse offer.the horses career hit topnotch and big money appeared on the horizon and greed entered the equation.then a big row and the irish walkaway.
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 1:11 PM BST
"were quite friendly"? Is that before or after he took them to court Laugh
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 1:11 PM BST
I think we all agree that Ferguson was wrong to pursue the stud issue.

The debate is whether he was right to believe he had a case.

All I am saying is that he did have a right to think he had a case, if only because the issue wasn't raised at the beginning and because he owned a 50% share.

Legally he had a very strong case but morally he would have been better off accepting what Magnier said.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 1:13 PM BST
DeSSie, at one time they were massively friendly and it was Magnier and company who chased Ferguson around to be friends even before they were involved with United.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 1:15 PM BST
bbc2 23 Oct 14 13:08 Joined: 16 Apr 09 | Topic/replies: 33,296 | Blogger: bbc2's blog

looking at it logically i guess coolmore and saf were quite friendly hence the horse offer.the horses career hit topnotch and big money appeared on the horizon and greed entered the equation.then a big row and the irish walkaway.


I reckon beeb's post ends the debate.
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 1:16 PM BST
Fergie has updated his book to rubbish the claims being made that he left the club in a mess for Moyes. Looking forward to the second update when hopefully he'll properly address this issue which of course all the green'n'golds should be looking forward to also. Magnier could then have a best seller on his hands.......
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 1:18 PM BST
End of debate then......
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 1:18 PM BST
Bttom line is he came away looking like a ****.  Don't think even his staunchest backers could refute that, but you never know!
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 1:20 PM BST
Its sad to think that two years ago we had completely outplayed the team that demolished Liverpool last night, until the Nani "incident". How quickly things can change......
Report olddesperado October 23, 2014 1:21 PM BST
Peter, men in black entered the equation at clonmel but got delayed in some local bars,
I did hear the local kebab owner mustafa tried to invest in coolmore at that time after an coming into an unexpected windfall,Wink
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 1:38 PM BST
Laugh
Report tickerty boo October 23, 2014 1:45 PM BST
never been to clonmel in my life. Shocked
Report olddesperado October 23, 2014 1:54 PM BST
Did the van run out of diesel after the unexpected trip to northern Ireland tick,
The other bastards left you there minding it in case they persuaded John m to go for a "pint " with them.
Report tickerty boo October 23, 2014 1:55 PM BST
Laugh....how did you know that.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 1:58 PM BST
He had to mind the others in the back of the van. Never just one issue at United you know...
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 1:59 PM BST
Is it true the sat nav took you to Carlisle instead of Clonmel tick? Grin
Report tickerty boo October 23, 2014 2:00 PM BST
it's possible.Laugh
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 2:00 PM BST
If it did, no doubt you picked up that Michael Knighton on route
Report tickerty boo October 23, 2014 2:04 PM BST
ffs i'll never forget those keepy uppies Laugh
what a tw@t
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 2:06 PM BST
Didn't he sidefoot it into the net as well or am I remembering wrong.

I do remember he had his shorts on and football boots like he was one of the players.
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 2:07 PM BST
we would all do the same thingLaugh
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 2:10 PM BST
ffs, just backed that favourite at Southwell, miles clear and trading at 1.03 and falls two out Sad
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 2:11 PM BST
you were always a jammy bollox
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 2:21 PM BST
Confused
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 2:31 PM BST
you didnt back itShocked
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 2:32 PM BST
dont know why the southwell fences always claim fallers
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 2:34 PM BST
I thought it was value, traded at 1.61 with a circuit to go and is much better than the rest.

Jumped the fence not too badly but crumpled
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 2:39 PM BST
think they are portable fences as wellLaugh
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 2:44 PM BST
Thats why the jumps is not a good betting medium IMO. Just like referreeing decisions though, the wins from fallers should even it out over time.......but do they?
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 2:46 PM BST
Can Murray get beat in this match?
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 2:48 PM BST
f ucking hell, its happened again. Faller at Ludlow at the last. It was green and running around but had plenty left when it fell, had gone 1.23. I backed it at 4.4 Sad
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 2:52 PM BST
peter dont cross a busy road today
Report easyrider69 October 23, 2014 2:54 PM BST
thats what karma does....all the chat about Magniers and SAF .....there sticking pins in you..!!
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 2:54 PM BST
Get your money on Chelsea to win the title now!!!
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 2:55 PM BST
Might as well get them out of the way, I have my op on saturday Scared
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 2:55 PM BST
pbk will save a curry meal
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 2:58 PM BST
lets hope they dont take the wrong course pete Laugh
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 2:59 PM BST
The surgeons I mean Scared
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 3:00 PM BST
I believe Consultant T. Boo is in theatre that day according to the rota......
Report DeSSieReborn October 23, 2014 3:03 PM BST
bwendan scared to death punishing mario will end up with a walkout and him in the doghouse (nap)
Report 11kv October 23, 2014 3:15 PM BST
Feck me you boys don't half cover some subjects on here.......
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 3:16 PM BST
I know its getting boring but just backed the second at Ludlow, going easily hits the last two and gets caught on run in. Went 1.04 Sad

They say it comes in threes so hopefully that's that but got some catching up to do to get those losses back.
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 3:17 PM BST
11kv,

Anything we can help you with? Grin
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 3:27 PM BST
peters killed a chinaman
Report bbc2 October 23, 2014 3:29 PM BST
the only thing you cannot discuss is parcel deliveriesSad
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 3:32 PM BST
Oh my goodness its happened again SadSad

Backed the second at 13.5 ish at Carlisle and its gone 1.11 when about 2 lengths clear on the run in.

This is one of the times I am grateful to Ozy taking exception to me posting my bets. Been a very expensive day SadSad
Report peter the butcher October 23, 2014 3:34 PM BST
Four horse all gone 1.11 or shorter and got beaten. Huge swing on them, maybe I should call it a day now.
Report Pandorica October 23, 2014 6:03 PM BST
Not interested in the horse gig with Ferguson and Magnier, other than its effect on the club. However...

"Ozymandius • October 22, 2014 11:20 PM BST
There are no two sides to this. Just a man from Govan getting ideas above his station.

...caught my attention.
I would hope, in the 21st century, that a person's birthplace did not automatically limit them to a "station".
It's a fcking disgusting concept.
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