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27 Dec 10 00:11
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Date Joined: 12 Mar 02
| Topic/replies: 41,963 | Blogger: peter the butcher's blog
Not long before transfer window opens and although Sir Alex Ferguson says he is not a big fan of the January opportunity, he has been known to come up with the odd surprise!

Newspapers say Pepe Reina is a target. True he is unsettled at United but would he move to United knowing the "rumpus" that caused. Also United have earmarked young Anders Lindergaard as the long time successor to Van Der Sar but Reina much better at the moment.

The other name that keeps getting mentioned at Old Trafford is the Chilean winger Alexis Sanchez. I heard that Inter were going to sign him but he is waiting to see if United move for him first. Not sure about truth in this because Antonio Valencia is making a quicker recovery than first thought and I would have thought Sir Alex might be prioritising  a centre half and midfielder but who knows.

Anderson is starting to show a lot more of his undoubted ability but the defence is key for United if they want another title. Sunderland were not great today but United's defence was absolutely solid, unlike much of this season. Anyway we will find out a bit more at Birmingham on Tuesday as they will be tested a lot more by a fresh side with plenty of time to prepare.

Anyway good luck to fans at all clubs in this festive period. It could go a long way to deciding your season.

For United fans looking for a 19th title-  BELIEVE
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Report peter the butcher April 26, 2015 10:57 PM BST
What do you know that LVG didn't know about the penalty decision that makes you think it was wrong?
Report peter the butcher April 26, 2015 10:59 PM BST
Talking about LVG changing keepers in the World Cup for those who are wondering what we are bickering about Devil
Report Pandorica April 26, 2015 10:59 PM BST
I don't think it can be judged as either correct or incorrect. I don't think there's enough evidence to make a judgement.
LVG must have made that decision on very limited evidence too - fair play for having the nuts to do it - but I assume it was based on the goalkeepers' records of saving penalties in matches and in training. Got to be fine margins there I'd have thought.
Report Pandorica April 26, 2015 11:00 PM BST
I didn't say I thought it was wrong. Just that evidence either way is going to be so weak that any judgement of it is pretty ropey.
Report Pandorica April 26, 2015 11:03 PM BST
The same applies to Falcao this year I think.
Not enough evidence to price up, but for a quid plus wages the risk-reward must say to buy.
Report HonkyJoe April 26, 2015 11:03 PM BST
Fine margins perhaps, but as long as the stats over their careers hinted that TK was better than Cillessen (and I think they did), then it was almost certainly a good decision.  If Keeper A saves penalties 28% of the time, and Keeper B saves them 25% of the time, assuming you don't think there's any reason for thinking the 'test results' favour A over B, surely the right decision is to go for the 28% keeper.

What was the downside?  That B went into a huff and didn't perform well when we was restored to the First Team next time?  Presumably LVG felt he knew the keepers, and thought Cillessen would be okay with it.
Report peter the butcher April 26, 2015 11:05 PM BST
Unless he'd seen them practicing in training and one was obviously much better than the other in saving penalties? One was mentally stronger maybe?

With all respect Pandy you'd have to say that unless LVG was David Moyes you can't say that you didn't think it was a good decision ffs.

You base that on zero?????
Report peter the butcher April 26, 2015 11:08 PM BST
Pandy where has that £1 for Falcao fee come in? Pretty sure you were saying we should get Monaco to reduce his fee to 20m or something and buy him a week or two ago. Can't let you get away with that Devil

Not saying that I disagree with you mind.
Report itcanbedone April 26, 2015 11:09 PM BST
The downside of the decision was in holding back a sub for 120 minutes.  That could have gone pear-shaped.
Report peter the butcher April 26, 2015 11:11 PM BST
Do you think he held the sub back for that reason alone? I don't know, I'm just asking.
Report itcanbedone April 26, 2015 11:12 PM BST
Don't know....but if he did...that was the ballsy element of the decision.
Report Pandorica April 26, 2015 11:13 PM BST
I think it's very unlikely that LVG really had enough evidence to make that call with the assurance that it was correct.
It was great. It was entertaining. It was brilliant fun. But I doubt very much that he had the numbers to back it up to any statistical significance.

I'd take Falcao for £20m yes - I just used a quid to highlight the risk-reward issue.
Report bbc2 April 26, 2015 11:13 PM BST
just read a story about watford newly promoted to the premiership.cost of their team 1 million spend in the transfer widow summer nil winter nil.the point is the value of their team is greater than the individuals in uniteds case the individuals value is greater than the team.
Report itcanbedone April 26, 2015 11:13 PM BST
Cant believe you'd want Falcao at 20m.
Report bbc2 April 26, 2015 11:14 PM BST
pandy is barmyLaugh
Report Pandorica April 26, 2015 11:17 PM BST
Falcao might have "gone". He seriously might have.
But then again this might be a player gradually getting back to where he was before an injury without the benefit of a pre-season and constantly being asked to play in a team performing poorly. If that's the case, Falcao can win you the title. £20m these days - what does that buy you in terms of anything proven? 5/7ths of a Fellaini.
Report bbc2 April 26, 2015 11:19 PM BST
falcao has gone pandy let pool buy him
Report itcanbedone April 26, 2015 11:20 PM BST
No glimmer of a suggestion that;

1.  The Prem suits him

2.  Our style of play suits him

3   life in Ingerlund suits him

and most importantly;

4. that he is the player that he was since being rushed back form injury.

Also he is 30 so no sell on value.


No doubt you will say he hasn't had a long enough sample of games on which to judge him, but he has had a full season and all we can judge him on is what we have seen.  And he hasn't done enough to warrant a 20m bid...or any bid for that matter.
Report Pandorica April 26, 2015 11:20 PM BST
Beeb - does your world ever extend beyond 5 minutes ago and 5 minutes from now?
Is there just a 10 minute window?
Report bbc2 April 26, 2015 11:21 PM BST
let him be outstanding at anfield
Report bbc2 April 26, 2015 11:22 PM BST
may be you should support liverpool pandy
Report Pandorica April 26, 2015 11:23 PM BST
Why is that beeb?
Report HonkyJoe April 26, 2015 11:23 PM BST
constantly being asked to play in a team performing poorly.


Erm.. Most of our attacks have broken down when they've got to him. It's no surprise that we've generally looked much better with him off the pitch than on it.

£20M for a player who simply hasn't performed?  You're attaching huge value to the importance of a pre-season.  Man....

I'm off for a late-night coffee..
Report bbc2 April 26, 2015 11:24 PM BST
scousers luv bullshitGrin
Report peter the butcher April 26, 2015 11:24 PM BST
By the way did anybody see Slippy G's dive at West Brom yesterday? Typical BBC didn't show it on MOTD but it wasn't great.

This is it for those who missed it.

https://twitter.com/cfc12/status/591979017605001216
Report ours4keeps April 26, 2015 11:29 PM BST
The Krul decision was rotten simply because in the next game the Dutch again reached a shoot out but this time he'd used his 3 subs and the opponents immediately had the upper hand.
Report If Dolphins Were Monkeys April 26, 2015 11:34 PM BST
eh Confused a decision works ... how can it be rotten Confused And how does it automatically follow the opponents have the upper hand Confused their keeper may have poorer stats ... a slighter better chance but the upper hand Confused
Report Pandorica April 26, 2015 11:34 PM BST
Laugh
That's the same thinking that was being used to justify hanging on to Fellaini because his value has increased since we could last sell him.
Report peter the butcher April 26, 2015 11:35 PM BST
That makes no sense O4K, anything that happened after that decision has no bearing on it. It was either right or wrong when he made it. Can't say it was wrong because later on he couldn't repeat it, well you can but its wrong.
Report Pandorica April 26, 2015 11:35 PM BST
Plain
Report peter the butcher April 26, 2015 11:41 PM BST
No Pandy, the point is that your opinion that we should have sold Fellaini in January was wrong, mainly because LVG thought we should keep him. That alone takes care of the decision element.

The fact you went on to say that the longer we keep him lessens his value may or may not be right but its certainly true that his value is probably double what it was a few months ago. Probably get 14m or so now.
Report Pandorica April 26, 2015 11:46 PM BST
It was indeed either right or wrong to sell him in January.
If he had sold him you couldn't say it was wrong because he couldn't sell him again in Summer.
Similarly it's incorrect to say that by not selling, he was correct because of a value change since then.
Report Pandorica April 26, 2015 11:49 PM BST
Ah well. That was all mildly entertaining.
Night all.
Report peter the butcher April 26, 2015 11:58 PM BST
Exactly but we aren't linking the two things or I'm not anyway, ie the decision and his subsequent increase in value.

You said that the longer he stayed at the club the less he would be worth and I merely pointed out that in fact his value had increased these past few months.

Look I couldn't care less if he's sold in the summer, indeed I would be pleased because it would mean LVG had got the players he has targetted but we can't pick and choose when we think LVG has made the correct decision based only on our own personal hates.

I don't like Rooney and was mortified he was made captain but accept there wasn't really an alternative......anybody else would have done actually...Grin
Report ours4keeps April 27, 2015 5:00 AM BST
He openly declared he had very little faith in Cillessen for pens. May have worked in the immediate short term but there was the same situation in the next game and Krul couldn't come on meaning he had a keeper who knew he was considered to be inferior while the opponents also gained confidence knowing they were facing the second choice.Plain
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 11:17 AM BST
Yes but the decision at the time was based on what was available and known to him at that time. Even if Krul had made a hash of the penalties 10 minutes later in LVG's mind it would still have been the right decision at the time he made it. So anything days after where chance played a big part has no bearing
Report ours4keeps April 27, 2015 12:11 PM BST
But he knew at that time the effect it would have on Cillessen if he needed him for pens at a later stage.

He effectively said Cillessen is so had at pens (or Krul is so good) that I'm going to take the unprecedented step of swapping goalies in the 120th minute.

Comparable to going all in with all your cards face up on the table.
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 12:55 PM BST
The decision was either right or wrong when he made it. Presumably he took everything into account when he made it so he believed it to be right.

Anything that happens after that doesn't change the reasons he made that decision.

Just because Krul saved the penalties doesn't prove his decision was right in the same way it doesn't prove he was wrong because Krul couldn't play in the next game.

If we did take results and hindsight into account you could then say that Holland wouldn't have got to the next round if Cillessen had stayed on and people would have said that Krul should have been in there for the penalty shootout etc etc
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 12:58 PM BST
Anyway how cheesed off must you be over the dropped points at West Brom??

I would have made you favourites over us for a top four position if you'd won.

It's going down to the wire as it is.
Report bbc2 April 27, 2015 12:58 PM BST
lvg is a real nutter should suit unitedLaugh
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 1:05 PM BST
beeb I like him. Straight talking, says we are sh1t when we are (mostly), rarely blames the ref, doesn't care about big names and drops them if they need to, has brought the fear factor back, players scared of him but respect him and has a huge presence. Top players around the world will sign for him too.

The icing on the cake is that fans from other clubs hate him and that makes us happy.

They loved Moysie though, didn't they?
Report bbc2 April 27, 2015 1:17 PM BST
lvg wants rid of little pea to southampton
Report bbc2 April 27, 2015 1:19 PM BST
our problems appear to be in attack now although the defence blundered in the last game
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 1:22 PM BST
If De Gea goes we need replacements right down the spine. Another keeper, centre half, midfielder and one attacker at least. Right back position also needs addressing.

Other than that we are ok.....
Report bbc2 April 27, 2015 1:27 PM BST
lets hope we have done the deals already
Report ours4keeps April 27, 2015 2:16 PM BST
Old style season petering out for us now. Hoping we finish 7th rather than 5th. Would have been nice to keep the pressure on but loads of fannying about with no penetration has been the story of our season. Roll on August.
Report Ozymandius April 27, 2015 2:53 PM BST
Peter, this repeated assertion of yours that I blamed Fellaini even when he wasn't playing..... I don't recall whats behind tat.  Did I mistakenly refer to a game where he wasn't playing, even if I did , I'm sure I would have held my hands up immediately. God knows there were enough examples of his awfulness last season without needing to make one up.

I stand by my views on Fellaini. He has regaied confidence and improved, he has contributed, but he isn't a United player.  Not even as a Plan B.  Get rid.
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 3:01 PM BST
Alright Ozy,

Yes you had a spell where you criticised Fellaini non stop including after we'd lost a match he didn't play in. You knew he hadn't played in it and your point was a much wider one but ended up a bit like yesterday with him being blamed. To be fair he was poor last season but he was injured for around three months and Moysie didn't seem to know what position he'd bought him for.

Its to Fellaini's credit that he has turned his career around at United but like you, Pandy and others I don't believe he is a United type of player and if LVG gets the players he has targeted then he will be gone and I don't mind that.

The debate last night was more about why he was the scapegoat when he had his first poor game for a long time and most of the team were as bad if not worse.
Report Ozymandius April 27, 2015 3:40 PM BST
You knew he hadn't played in it and your point was a much wider one

Good to know I am not losing my marbles.
Report PBK April 27, 2015 4:31 PM BST
Chelsea would pay £1 for Falcao..................we're known for paying over the odds where strikers are concerned...............he's sh!t ! Can't believe all the stick is aimed at Fellaini..............how come jug ears doesn't get any ? Disloyal cu nt !
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 5:25 PM BST
Spot on PBK
Report ours4keeps April 27, 2015 6:17 PM BST
To give the jug eared, duplicitous, disloyal c#nt some credit I'd say he has probably been your best outfield player this season. Little surprise your best run came when Woy finally realised none of Wilson, Falcao or RVP were good enough and put Rooney in his best position.

Seems like he's been a good captain too and a proper leader in the dressing room.

He is a c#nt though.

Right, as you were.
Report the_don April 27, 2015 6:43 PM BST
Rooney has played a team role well recently, but still don't think he's the man to play as a lone striker.
For me, Carrick (when he's played) and Young have outperformed Rooney this season, along with de Gea obviously.
Report ours4keeps April 27, 2015 7:18 PM BST
To be fair Carrick's been excellent. No surprise you were rancid with grandad Blind back in centre midfield.
Report bbc2 April 27, 2015 7:22 PM BST
see rafael is injured again and looks like evans is off to sunderland
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 7:32 PM BST
De Gea, Carrick, Fellaini, Herrera and Young have all been better than Rooney this season.

Somebody tell me when Rooney was last world class in a match?

Or even turned a match a la Ronaldo.
Report ours4keeps April 27, 2015 7:38 PM BST
Jeez, when have any of the above been world class???
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 7:41 PM BST
Di Maria has been awful for months as well but hopefully next season will see him in better light, if he's still here
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 7:42 PM BST
They haven't had our pants down twice and got themselves 300k a week propelling them into the 2nd richest sportsman in the country
Report ours4keeps April 27, 2015 7:49 PM BST
His personality and salary will always cloud the issue. On performance alone, I think he's been the most consistent and the best. And, most surprisingly of all as I was expecting a car crash, I think he's been an excellent captain.
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 7:50 PM BST
Here's an article I wrote for the Telegraph Plain
http://goo.gl/ZnP1Xx
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 7:56 PM BST
He's a disloyal scouse tw@t who will end up being our top goalscorer but still not in our ten top players of all time.

I can understand the scouse brotherhood you are showing him but to say he's been anything other than good at best for years would be wrong.

He was magnificent when he was a kid and for the first few years with us.
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 8:01 PM BST
More here I think
http://goo.gl/0BHy6Q

Hard to say on an iPad because it's a sh1te piece of technology at times
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:05 PM BST
Pandy, what is the point of all this? We largely agree that LVG will/should sell Fellaini if he can get the players he's after so not sure what you are trying to prove???

I know you wanted shot of him in January but it didn't happen and he's forced his way into the team since then and helped us into the position we are in. That was down to LVG and Fellaini himself.

What happens next? Who knows, he could be cr@p for our remaining matches and that is that but its down to LVG mate
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 8:13 PM BST
What's the point in anything? We'll all die.
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:20 PM BST
Ok, I'll play Grin
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:21 PM BST
Which player in the club has better chest control than Fellaini? Answer= Nobody
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:21 PM BST
Which player is taller than Fellaini? Answer= None
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:22 PM BST
Which player in the club has got a more iconic hairstyle? Answer= None
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:23 PM BST
Which player is better in the air than Fellaini? Answer= None
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:24 PM BST
Which player is a better midfielder than Fellaini xxxxxx Cancel that
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:25 PM BST
Which player is a better striker than Fellaini? xxxxxxxx cancel that too
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:26 PM BST
name me one player who was better value for the transfer fee than Fellaini?XXXXXXXX cancel that
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:27 PM BST
alright I give up....
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 8:28 PM BST

Apr 27, 2015 -- 8:22PM, peter the butcher wrote:


Which player in the club has got a more iconic hairstyle? Answer= None


Rooney?

Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 8:29 PM BST

Apr 27, 2015 -- 8:23PM, peter the butcher wrote:


Which player is better in the air than Fellaini? Answer= None


Loads. The f ucker can't jump

Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:32 PM BST
He doesn't need to jump
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 8:32 PM BST
Just filled in the NHS organ donation form that the DVLA guide you to after taking a car.
You can opt for:

A. Any organ or tissue

Or

B. Select from kidneys, pancreas, liver, small intestine, tissue, eyes

Why did I hesitate over this question? Not Fellaini related by the way. Why hesitate over eyes?
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 8:33 PM BST
He also doesn't have neck muscles. It's why he constantly shakes his head after yet another foul given away
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:33 PM BST
Report PBK April 27, 2015 8:34 PM BST
You still going on about the Wig Crazy
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 8:35 PM BST
I always like to have a hate figure. Since blocking one incher I've been at a loose end.
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 8:36 PM BST
Brilliant chest control though.
Steve Wotshisname got that right
Report PBK April 27, 2015 8:39 PM BST
To give the jug eared, duplicitous, disloyal c#nt some credit I'd say he has probably been your best outfield player this season.


That explains O4K why Utd are relatively sh!t.....................although not as bad as Liverpool Laugh
Report PBK April 27, 2015 8:45 PM BST
What's the point in anything? We'll all die.


Pandy you ever thought of giving motivational courses Shocked
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 8:55 PM BST
Grin
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 8:57 PM BST
I was booked to do one last year PBK but I couldn't be @rsed
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 8:59 PM BST
Scouse thread a bit lively at the moment. They seem to be having a post mortem before they have a corpse. Loads of football left in the season yet
Report peter the butcher April 27, 2015 9:01 PM BST
Its madness, I think they play twice before we play again. They might be only one point behind us by then
Report PBK April 27, 2015 9:04 PM BST
I was booked to do one last year PBK but I couldn't be @rsed


Bit like my hallway Plain
Report ours4keeps April 27, 2015 9:12 PM BST
Did you not see us on Saturday. Flip flops are well and truly on.
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 9:16 PM BST
I didn't see any of the match but I read that you were brave and outstanding
Report PBK April 27, 2015 9:27 PM BST
Led by a tactical genius Mischief
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 9:28 PM BST
Bournemouth supporters enjoying one of those rare nights when all is well with the world. Been a while since we had one of those.
Report ours4keeps April 27, 2015 9:29 PM BST
Love how he winds you boys up so much. Not many glimmers left to be fair this year.
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 9:30 PM BST
I wouldn't exactly say he winds us up. He's embarrassing at times is all.
Report ours4keeps April 27, 2015 9:53 PM BST
And yet you hang off every word WVG says even when he's doing what I like to call "the full woy".

It's just partisanship. I'd probably be the same if the old duffer was malingering round our gaff, being obnoxious and carrying a faint whiff of 2-day old wee. I'd hope not, but I probably would.
Report bbc2 April 27, 2015 9:58 PM BST
feck bournemouth taking it to the last gameShocked
Report Pandorica April 27, 2015 10:46 PM BST
Weird post o4k.
Get a grip.
Report bbc2 April 28, 2015 8:58 AM BST
lest we forget it was 25 years ago pool last won the titleLaughbrenda says he is the man to give them another title.shame he failed last year but nearly won itLaugh
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