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06 Dec 17 09:59
Date Joined: 10 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 557 | Blogger: rosebowl's blog
Personally dissapointed that Vince has only performed once in 4 knocks. Ive followed his career and always believed that he had the class to make it at Test level.His natural game is to attack and at this level I think he is too impatient against quality bowling. Pretty sure he will now be dropped but cant see any new No 3 that fills me with confidence.
Like to see vince given a run in the ODIs so that he can gain confidence to play his natural game against international attacks in a slightly less pressured environment.To me he is a superior player to Jason Roy.
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Report Whisperingdeath December 6, 2017 2:27 PM GMT
Very disappointing from Vince but not surprising. There is a big difference being in your comfort zone against second grade bowlers and feeling the fire of the TEST arena. He is a good player and may need time at this level. He must ackowledge he needs to change his game to a degree or at least curb it ealry on or against a newer ball. I dont think he is the answer to numer 3 but like the rest of us I don't know who is. It might sound stupid but I think Hales could have been useful in this series although he is not the full answer either.

I know this sounds stupid but everything changed for me when he gt run out on 83. England had a man in the middle and he could have batted on to get 140 or so and that would have pushed England over the 400-450 line and possibly gaven England a chance in the match and series.

Easy to put this argument down, I am not saying Aus are a better side in Australi with their bowling attack but we have seen the pressure Smith was under. he had to take a sleeping pill last night!

The doubt sown in Aussie minds could have been enormus. The physical toll would have been raised on the three Aussie quicks. True it didn't happen and we never know but that would have been the plan.

I think the batters have really lost us the initiative in the series. We have seen how the likes of Paine and Marsh and Cummins have shown determination that has changed the momentum, mach and series. I think Vince's run out was a crucial turn in the battle that has resulted in the loss of the war!
Report dustybin December 6, 2017 3:59 PM GMT
Take cook with him if he goes.
Sure cook was a quality performer but hes done, scoring double hundreds against Jamaica aint worth much now.
If the top order aint going to do very much of anything now they might as well through anything in on the off chance that they have a game non of the bowlers have experienced.
Report dustybin December 6, 2017 4:00 PM GMT
Report Injera December 6, 2017 4:10 PM GMT
If Vince was to be picked he should have been down at 6 or 7. Give him a chance! The captain MUST bat 3.

To chuck Vince in at 3 was ignorant.
Report Whisperingdeath December 6, 2017 4:58 PM GMT
We new this was going to happen to be honest. Look at our forum posts prior to The Ashes and when the squad was picked. I just guess we got buoyed with hope after the first innings at the Gabba. Stonewall and Malan have shown signs but this is a tough tour against 4 top bowlers
Report Injera December 6, 2017 5:48 PM GMT
I think we were all pleasantly surprised by his innings at the Gabba. We all want him to do well but it aint rocket science to see it was a gamble. He's loose and if you play with a half a bat on Aussie pitches it's a nightmare.

Got a pal who's there for all 5 tests. Now that's stamina..I went to sleep when Woakes was out!
Report tomtimtum December 6, 2017 7:03 PM GMT
Vince is a talented cricketer but he shouldn't be batting at no.3

Root should be 3
Jonny at 4

Then Ali / Malan / Vince in whatever order you see fit

We seem to be stuck with a totally inflexible batting line up and the idea that the wicketkeeper and the all rounders have to bat below the specialist batters
It's much easier for new batters to slot into the middle order and then move up as they gain confidence and experience.
Report Injera December 6, 2017 7:11 PM GMT
Bullseye tom.
Report wondersobright December 6, 2017 8:51 PM GMT
hilarious how some people on here were saying eat humble pie you got it wrong after his 83 @ the gabba

Report FatherMaguire December 7, 2017 8:20 AM GMT
Surely the complete inability of the openers to have a stand of 50 is reason enough for Root to stay at number 4. If the idea is to protect our best player from the new ball, then you need a number 3 to eat up a bit more time.

Also, I can't see any merit in moving the batting order to accommodate Vince, who has generally fallen short of Test standard throughout his career. There's a vacancy at number 3, he isnt up to it, so it's time for the next man to get a go before the series is gone. The next man is Ballance, who has performed well and failed at Test level.
Report Whisperingdeath December 7, 2017 1:19 PM GMT
We still have the problems at 1,2,3 and 5.

Our batsmen at times seem incapable of gutsing it out and playing a long innings in tough conditions. Double hundreds against WI only count in the record books.

I like the young lad at Lancashire and hope he comes through this summer. I our bowling attack is World Class at home. Interesting that it took a pink ball for Anderson to claim 5 wickets in a Test in Aus for the first time. Our attack looks powder puff with an old Kookaburra. I thought they were supposed to have practised with one and also practised playing the short ball.

Strange and wrong but I think Hales could have done a job for us out here and should have been selected in place of Ballance. At least we would have had options and he is a right hand bat. Didn't they think about Lyon and how to get him out of the attack?

I thought Root has Capained well and he has implemented the plans they have hatched quite well.

We have to accept though that Australia has a very good bowling attack and deserve to be 2-0 up. We did however have chances and did not take them.
Report wondersobright December 7, 2017 1:46 PM GMT
RE vince & english batting generally

my view as I have expressed previously is vince is not good enough to play test cricket, let alone at number 3

but look at the numbers of the rest of the batting line up, talk about a sight for sore eyes

cook [62]...2,7,37,16...wouldn't be getting too comfy alastair
stoneman [134]...53,27,18,36...starts in every knock, encouraging but depressing
vince [107]...83,7,2,15...1 swallow, 3 failures
root [142]...15,51,9,67...obviously class, under a lot of pressure captaining & carrying a failing batting lineup
malan [108]...56,4,19,29...won't make it imo
ali [105]...38,40,25,2...talented but got a sloppy arrogance about his batting sometimes, done nothing with the ball this series
bairstow [108]...9,42,21,36...batting too low in the order, keeping wicket as well I won't hammer jonny he has done OK imo
Report wondersobright December 9, 2017 2:51 PM GMT
1 for ballance & 2 for foakes in the warm up game

personally I would leave things as they are rather than make changes now, the series is pretty much gone already so throwing inexperienced people in is unlikely to work

just wait till next summer and give d lawrence & j clarke a go that's my view
Report Injera December 9, 2017 5:56 PM GMT
It's a nightmare wonders.

Agreed no point making changes to the batting.

Foakes could have featured if Strauss had the bottle to pick Stokes. Could have played instead of Vince and Foakes for Overton/Ball with JB moved to 5.

Why is that the wheels come off more often than not Down Under?
Report wondersobright December 9, 2017 6:31 PM GMT
english batting tends to be pretty dreadful in most conditions

the bowlers bail them out with the duke in tests over here
Report DStyle December 11, 2017 8:24 AM GMT
inj is right. Vince should be nowhere near number 3. It's rivals Glen Maxwell as one of the worst numbers 3 in living memory. Seriously, how did that meeting go?

"So then, eager strokemaker, particularly through the covers, can go after too many balls, more vulnerable when it's moving about. Where do you think he'd do best?"
{passes the crack pipe}
"Number 3 sounds about right."
{sounds of agreement from all}

you blood strokemakers at 6. like vaughan. let them do what they do best first away from the pressure of being decisive to an innings' failure or success, develop the confidence to feel accepted and then the concentration required to leave well is more easily developed. Then, if they thrive, you move them up.

constantly feeling like you're having to prove yourself lowers restraint/executive control and makes you do stupid things. This is the idea behind being allowed to "express yourself", but players aren't so f*cking stupid that just because a coach tells them this, they don't feel pressure. The key to "expressing yourself" (shoot me now, please) is putting players in situations where there is limited pressure, not telling them that there isn't any.

And as for Bairstow at 7, it's just more ammunition that Bayliss doesn't have a f*cking clue. He has done NOTHING with this test side. And I'm not sure he's been instrumental in the white ball development either, rather than green-lighting an approach which had just been vetoed by other coaches.
Report Injera December 11, 2017 12:12 PM GMT
That's as good a dissection of the challenges of batting as I've read on here.

Bayliss is charged with getting off the field decisions correct:

Team discipline
Batting order
General tactics (which Root can of course adjust on the field)

So far he's failing.
Report wondersobright December 11, 2017 2:17 PM GMT
I have a feeling bayliss will be gone after this series
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