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08 Aug 17 00:04
Date Joined: 13 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 12,088 | Blogger: brassneck's blog
2 Grand for your dog,would you sell him or her ,or do love little Rex too much.Laugh
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Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 8, 2017 12:30 AM BST
Literally priceless. Abramovich is worth $9.2 billion, yet he still couldn't buy my dog.

Bit daft really, with her being 12 years old now, but it just makes every minute she's still around all the more precious.
Report The Leopard August 8, 2017 12:49 AM BST
Get a puppy as  a backup.......  as you know she will  go sometime
Report Facts August 8, 2017 12:58 AM BST
Who's your back up Leopard ?

And in answer to OP.

Of course not.
Report The Leopard August 8, 2017 1:03 AM BST
I'm immortal Wink

No need for backup.
Report scandanavian_haven August 8, 2017 1:24 AM BST
Which Emotions Do Dogs Actually Experience?

Are you anthropomorphizing? The feelings dogs actually experience— and those we project
By Stanley Coren | Illustration by Kim Smith

Most people can read emotions in their dog quite easily. For example, you come home and your dog dances around wagging her tail, and you think to yourself, “Lady is happy to see me,” or “Lady really loves me.” Or perhaps you’re out on a walk and, at the approach of another canine, your dog freezes in place, his hackles raised, and gives a low throaty growl. We interpret this as “Rex does not like that dog. Seeing him makes Rex angry.” In such situations the emotional state of our dogs seems quite obvious. For this reason it is difficult for many people to understand that the existence of emotions in dogs was—and in some places still is—a point of scientific controversy.

In the dim, distant past it was presumed that dogs had very rich mental lives, with feelings much like those of humans and even the ability to understand human language almost as well as people. However, with the rise of science things began to change. Mankind was now beginning to understand enough about the principles of physics and mechanics that we could build complex machines. In addition, we were learning that living things were also governed by systems that followed mechanical rules and chemical processes. In the face of such discoveries, religions stepped in to suggest that there must be more to human beings than simply mechanical and chemical events. Church scholars insisted that people have souls, and the evidence they gave for this was the fact that humans have consciousness and feelings; animals might have the same mechanical systems, they argued, but they did not have a divine spark and, therefore, did not have the ability to experience “true” feelings.

Since much of the science of the time was sponsored by church-related schools and universities, it is not surprising to find that the researchers would not assert the existence of higher levels of mental functioning such as emotions in animals. To do so might have caused the church authorities to feel that the scientists were suggesting that an animal such as a dog might have a soul and consciousness, and flying in the face of church doctrine could lead to a lot of problems.

The most prominent person to adopt this line was the French philosopher and scientist René Descartes. In a highly influential set of analyses, Descartes suggested that animals like dogs were simply some kind of machine. He would thus describe my Beagle, Darby, as simply being a dog-shaped chassis, filled with the biological equivalent of gears and pulleys. This machine doesn’t think, but it can be programmed to do certain things. Nicholas de Malebranche, who extended Descartes’ ideas, summed up the idea when he claimed that animals “eat without pleasure, cry without pain, act without knowing it: they desire nothing, fear nothing, know nothing.”

You might argue against this by noting that if you challenge a dog it clearly becomes angry, and this is proven by the fact that it snarls or snaps. Alternatively, it might become afraid, and this is proven by the fact that it whimpers and runs away. Those classical scientists and their successors would say that the dog is simply acting, not feeling. It is programmed to snap at things that threaten it, or if the threat is too great, it is programmed to run away. You might point out that if you kicked a dog it would yelp in pain and fear. These researchers might respond that if you kicked a toaster it would make a sound. Is this a yelp of pain indicating that the toaster is afraid? Their argument would be that dogs simply act and do not feel.

Science has clearly progressed a long, long way beyond the thinking of Descartes and Malebranche. We have now come to understand that dogs possess all of the same brain structures that produce emotions in humans. Dogs have the same hormones and undergo the same chemical changes that humans do during emotional states. Dogs even have the hormone oxytocin, which, in humans, is involved with feeling love and affection for others. With the same neurology and chemistry that people have, it seems reasonable to suggest that dogs also have emotions that are similar to ours. However, it is important to not go overboard and immediately assume that the emotional ranges of dogs and humans are the same.

To understand what dogs feel, we must turn to research done to explore the emotions of humans. It is the case that not all people have the full range of all possible emotions, and, in fact, at some points in your life you did not have the full complement of emotions that you feel and express today. There is much research to demonstrate that infants and very young children have a more limited range of emotions. It is over time that the infant’s emotions begin to differentiate and develop and, by the time they’ve reached adulthood, their range of emotional experiences is quite broad.

Why is such data important to understanding emotional lives of our dogs? Researchers have now come to believe that the mind of a dog is roughly equivalent to that of a human who is two to two-and-a-half years old. This conclusion holds for most mental abilities as well as emotions. Thus, we can look to the human research to see what we might expect of our dogs. Just like a two-year-old child, our dogs clearly have emotions, but many fewer kinds of emotions than found in adult humans.

At birth, a human infant only has an emotion that we might call excitement. This indicates how excited he is, ranging from very calm up to a state of frenzy. Within the first weeks of life the excitement state comes to take on a varying positive or a negative flavour, so we can now detect the general emotions of contentment and distress. In the next couple of months, disgust, fear, and anger become detectable in the infant. Joy often does not appear until the infant is nearly six months of age and it is followed by the emergence of shyness or suspicion. True affection, the sort that it makes sense to use the label “love” for, does not fully emerge until nine or ten months of age.

The complex social emotions—those which have elements that must be learned—don’t appear until much later. Shame and pride take nearly three years to appear, while guilt appears around six months after that. A child is nearly four years of age before she feels contempt.

This developmental sequence is the golden key to understanding the emotions of dogs. Dogs go through their developmental stages much more quickly than humans do and have all of the emotional range that they will ever achieve by the time they are four to six months of age (depending on the rate of maturation in their breed). The important fact is that we know that the assortment of emotions available to the dog will not exceed that which is available to a human who is two to two-and-a-half years old. This means that a dog will have all of the basic emotions: joy, fear, anger, disgust, and, yes, love, but the dog does not experience the more complex emotions like guilt, pride, and shame.

Many would argue that they have seen evidence indicating their dog is capable of experiencing guilt. The usual situation recounted is one in which you’ve come home and your dog starts slinking around showing discomfort, and you then find that he has left a smelly brown deposit on your kitchen floor. It is natural to conclude that the dog was acting in a way that shows that he is feeling guilty about his transgression. Despite appearances, this is not guilt, but simply a display of the more basic emotion of fear. Your dog has learned that when you appear and his droppings are visible on the floor, bad things happen to him. What you see is his fear of punishment; he will never feel guilt because he is not capable of experiencing it.

So what does this mean for those of us who live with and interact with dogs? The good news is that you can feel free to dress your dog in that silly costume for a party. He will not feel shame, regardless of how ridiculous he looks. He will also not feel pride at taking home the top prize in a dog show or an obedience competition. But your dog can indisputably feel love for you and derive contentment from your company, and that’s really the crux of the matter, isn’t it? Like the Beatles sang, “all you need is love.” Thank goodness our dogs provide it in spades.
Report The Leopard August 8, 2017 1:30 AM BST
I'm not reading all that !
Report zorrostrikes August 8, 2017 6:27 AM BST
what about the clip of the dog that meets his owner after years of absence? it blacks out because it gets so excited? yet the owner the woman leaves it again? what a bitch.
Report ufcdan August 8, 2017 9:15 AM BST
My dog recently swallowed one of my fishing hooks ! £1256 to have it taken out. I said to the missus we could have it put down and by a new one for £800 which would last for 15 years where as our dog being eight only had seven or so years left ! It made good financial sense to me but you know room for logical thought Mischief
Report kincsem August 8, 2017 10:11 AM BST
Now your dog and your vet love you. LoveLove
Report brassneck August 8, 2017 10:54 AM BST
Just take a look at your dog at this minute and then ask yourself"would you sell him today if a guy called to the door"
or course you would not sell him,he's part of the family.
Now go outside and give the dog a hug and say to him"Brass is a bold man trying to put bad thoughts in my head,of course we would never sell you coochy poochy"LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Sica Dan August 8, 2017 10:56 AM BST
Yes, your vet loves your dog more than you do.
Report brassneck August 8, 2017 11:01 AM BST
mind you ,if the dog was a greyhound and was clocking fast times round the race track he might not be so luckyShocked
Report cooperman August 8, 2017 11:05 AM BST
Up your offer a bit!
Report Dr Crippen August 8, 2017 11:33 AM BST
I wouldn't hesitate to sell a dog for £2,00- when I could easily replace it for less than half that amount.

The same goes for a dog that got sick.

I know a lady who spent £5,000 on vets fees for her dog. The thing could hardly walk after the operations, and it lasted barely 12 months before it died.
All that suffering and for what, simply to give its owner a clear consequence. ''I did my best for it.''
Wouldn't it have been kinder to have it put down?

A dog is a dog, treat it like a dog and it's happier in the majority of cases.
And with the larger breeds it's absolutely essential.
Report i_agree_with_nick August 8, 2017 11:39 AM BST
screaming from beneaththewaves
08 Aug 17 00:30
Joined: 30 Jan 05
| Topic/replies: 9,993 | Blogger: screaming from beneaththewaves's blog

Literally priceless. Abramovich is worth $9.2 billion, yet he still couldn't buy my dog.

Maybe he could buy your dog and loan him back to you for two years?
Report jed.davison August 8, 2017 12:41 PM BST
You'd have Eddie Newton ringing you up every ten minutes asking how the dog's getting on.
Report s.kenbo August 8, 2017 12:59 PM BST
You obviously don't have a dog, Dr Crippen? Once one has gone, it can never be replaced by another. You put time and effort in to training a dog, watching it mature and growing it's own personality. It's a wonderful thing.

We've recently got a new puppy. He's a Schichon and 13 weeks old. I'd never heard of them before, but he's adorable and settled in really well.

We lost our Doberman in January and I still think about her most days.
Report khyber kim August 8, 2017 1:12 PM BST
My dog died 6 weeks ago and I wouldn't even sell his ashes for 2 grand.
Report s.kenbo August 8, 2017 1:14 PM BST
Report ufcdan August 8, 2017 2:07 PM BST
Of course I love my dog so wouldn't sell him for 2k now the missus on the other hand........
Report SlippyBlue August 8, 2017 6:52 PM BST
I wouldn't sell my Muttley for a million let alone a few grand.
Report scandanavian_haven August 8, 2017 6:58 PM BST
I'll give 5 million slippy.
Report dunlaying August 8, 2017 7:04 PM BST
I would never sell a pet dog .
Report SlippyBlue August 8, 2017 8:57 PM BST
No deal scandavian_haven, I don't need the money. My Muttley is so precious to me, priceless little fellow he is to me.Love
Report zorrostrikes August 8, 2017 9:00 PM BST
two types of people here... MONSTERS and people who love dogs.
Report SlippyBlue August 8, 2017 9:24 PM BST
He hasn't got long left zorrostrikes, he is only 6. He has chemotherapy once a month and goes to the Supervet in Godalming for his treatment. Maybe one more year left in his little bones, I'm dreaading the day when I have to say enough and let him go.Cry
Report zorrostrikes August 8, 2017 9:31 PM BST
i had dogs and a cat. the cat really got to me. had him for 13 years.
one visit to the vet and she put him down based on numbers from a blood test?
she refused me taking him home to die. i watched as they injected him.
buried him in the garden.
Report detraveller August 8, 2017 9:53 PM BST
I hate both and have never had either. If I had one, i'd sell it for 2 bucks(but i'll happily take 2 grand if anyone is offering of course). I fully appreciate people can get attached to them. But they are not for me.

I have had a very bad personal experience where I was extremely sick(threw up 7 times) and didn't even have any energy to talk. I told my flatmate to take me to a doctor and the fecker said he couldn't because he had to clean his room and then go to the gym. I had to go to the fecken neighbor. He also told me once that he couldn't imagine a life without his cat. Sometimes people take it too far and forget its just an animal. Because of that guy, I hate people with cats and dogs more than I hat cats and dogs.
Report scandanavian_haven August 8, 2017 9:53 PM BST
Slippy, I'm offering 100 million pounds for your dog ?

and trip to the playboy mansion.
Report Gnarley August 9, 2017 2:47 AM BST
No deal for selling.
But I'd happily pay two grand apiece to take my long departed pooches for just "one more" walk through Trevaylor Woods Sad
Report SlippyBlue August 9, 2017 4:21 PM BST
I highly doubt s_h that you have got 100 million pennies let alone 100 million quid. Regardless I wouldn't part with my pooch for all the tea in China. Gnarley understands.
Report scandanavian_haven August 9, 2017 4:34 PM BST
You actually needed to post that? I was obviously pulling your leg.
Report Dr Crippen August 9, 2017 5:13 PM BST
two types of people here... MONSTERS and people who love dogs.

Don't you think you're just being silly?

I'd never leave a dog on its own for anything over an hour or two if I could possibly avoid it, yet supposedly animal lovers don't hesitate to leave the dog on its own all day five times a week while they're out at work.

Just because someone doesn't display a bleeding heart, doesn't mean they'd ill treat an animal.
Report ufcdan August 9, 2017 7:52 PM BST
Fxxking time waster SH I was just about to offer you my dog for one million !
Report scandanavian_haven August 9, 2017 8:46 PM BST
Glad some have a sense of humour lol.
Report Steamship August 9, 2017 11:20 PM BST
I've had my Labrador for 6 years I bought him from my winning off Euro song contest. I would only let him go if I could not give him the life he deserves. He has been there for me through some really tough times.
Report Capt__F August 9, 2017 11:54 PM BST
Report Capt__F August 9, 2017 11:56 PM BST
But I'd happily pay two grand apiece to take my long departed pooches for just "one more" walk through Trevaylor Woods

me tooSad
Report Mc Moonbeam August 10, 2017 12:27 AM BST
My dad was once offered just that , was a top sheepdog my family bred them & my old man did the sheepy thing , a Farmer spotted him and offered 2k 2.5k 3k , my dad said no he loved the dog but was only 2 years old , he said he'd of gone much higher but if he'd offered 10k he would have to of seriously thought considered it , he never had much money , but still wouldn't of sold

a few months later he died , my old man later told me he'd been poisoned Blush
Report acquiesce12 August 10, 2017 12:47 AM BST

But I'd happily pay two grand apiece to take my long departed pooches for just "one more" walk through Trevaylor Woods



I wouldn't sell my Muttley for a million let alone a few grand.

Report Gnarley August 10, 2017 4:08 AM BST
You really are a bit of a back to front aren't you sweetheart.
Report Gnarley August 10, 2017 4:10 AM BST
Back to front? Not much Cry
Report ufcdan August 10, 2017 8:46 AM BST
I've had my Labrador for 6 years I bought him from my winning off Euro song contest. I would only let him go if I could not give him the life he deserves. He has been there for me through some really tough times.

Bought from the winnings from the Eurovision Song Contest ! You might let him go, you might not !

Clearly a time "For making your mind UP" Wink
Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 10, 2017 8:52 AM BST
"If I have to follow you everywhere, I might at least be allowed a bloody seat."

Report ufcdan August 10, 2017 8:55 AM BST
You can't get much fresher than that............the Korean restaurants have really upped their game Shocked
Report screaming from beneaththewaves August 10, 2017 8:59 AM BST
V. good
Report Dr Crippen August 13, 2017 1:41 PM BST
All this heart-breaking affection for dogs, when all the dog requires is that you take it out for a good walk a couple of times a day.
Dogs love going out and being let off their leads. Free to sniff around and roll in other dog's poo. And then come home and stink the house out.
Dogs simply love doing that.

Some dogs never go out, yet their owners think they're the kindest person on the planet.
All you have to do to keep a dog happy is take the dog for a walk and let it run off the lead. Keeping a dog in all the time is what I call cruelty.

And if someone offers you 2 grand for something you can replace for £500, snatch their hand off.
Report brassneck August 14, 2017 12:49 AM BST
Good job that the dogs cant read this thread,a few of them would have a lot of sleepless nights.i feel sorry for dr,crippen's dog,that little fellow is gone to the first bidder.LaughLaughLaugh
Report Dr Crippen August 14, 2017 7:05 PM BST
Brassneck's, conscience must be troubling him now after I spelled it out how cruel he is not taking his dog for regular walks.
I certainly feel sorry for any dog that he keeps.
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