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buddeliea
15 Mar 18 07:13
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Date Joined: 19 Mar 04
| Topic/replies: 13,962 | Blogger: buddeliea's blog
Had a think and come to the conclusion that this horse is as good a two miler i have ever seen.
To do what he did despite obvious dislike to conditions is something we seldom see.
Dont think i can recall ever writing a horse off during a Championship race,that has ever won a race by so much!!
Incredible performance.
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Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y March 15, 2018 8:35 AM GMT
I've thought the same for quite a while, I was a massive Moscow Flyer fan and his era had some great 2m chasers, then Sprinter Sacre was majestic as well but there is just something about Altior, the way he eats up that Cheltenham hill and hits the line is incredible. As you've said he looked to be absolutely hating the conditions yesterday and Nico was slightly niggling along from a very early stage but once he pulled him wide of them in the straight approaching the 2nd last there was only 1 result. He was still slightly behind Min landing over the last and then puts 7L between them to the line. The horse is just top class.
Report eric_morris March 15, 2018 9:42 AM GMT
Altior is much more adaptable he can be ridden as you want and you know that turn of foot is to come. Can hardly speak today after a shout off with Douvan and Min fans in the stands up the straight ha ha. Great bonus the 6/4 other day on here after the scare to go with the multiples
Report eric_morris March 15, 2018 9:43 AM GMT
Badsworth Boy may have a challenger for all time great in a few years time
Report Ibrahima Sonko March 15, 2018 11:08 AM GMT
His turn of foot is dancing brave over the jumps, they need to try him on the flat.

Still think Sprinter Sacre would out jump him.
Report firstimevisor March 15, 2018 11:53 AM GMT
He's a superb horse no doubt about it. But I wouldn't factor the ground into his performance - that dead ground is'nt ideal for any horse but its the same for them all.If you look back at Altior's history he usually looks beaten at some point in all his races - he lacks early pace - but then his stamina kicks in and he can find another gear late on. He could win a Gold Cup if they  ever went that route.

Such a pity Douvan fell. That's not saying he'd have won but a fully race fit Douvan is probably a fair shake better than Min. Altior has now beaten Min by 7 lengths twice(hurdles and fences) so there may not be a whole lot between these 2 exceptional horses.
Report ReaseHeath March 15, 2018 2:40 PM GMT
Gold Cup was on my mind for Altior yesterday too - Presenting Percy and Samcro were (quite rightly) touted as future Gold Cup horses yesterday but no mention of Altior - Henderson would probably say there's no need to step him up in trip whilst he's so dominant at 2 miles but would be good to see him tested - if he's not going to Punchestown to take on Douvan again then I'd like to see them run him in the Betfair Bowl over 3 miles or at least the Melling Chase if they want to go over the intermediate trip first.

A three runner race against Special Tiara and Cap'N at Sandown would just be a non event really...
Report duffy March 15, 2018 3:03 PM GMT
He's a brilliant horse but if Sprinter was running in that race then Altior wouldn't have won because as he was struggling, a fluent Sprinter would have put him into more trouble and Altiors struggles would have been accentuated, Sprinter would have stretched him to breaking point IMO.
Report duffy March 15, 2018 3:09 PM GMT
Much the same as "if" Douvan was back to his best, he was just at the point where he'd have started to stretch an in trouble Altior, he'd have then had to work harder to stay in touch, all that would have taken away from the final kick, he got away with it because although he was struggling, the field didn't go away from him and he had reserves.

He'd have had to use a lot of that up earlier "if" Douvan was able to do his stuff.
Report unclepuncle March 15, 2018 3:32 PM GMT
No way he ever goes for a Gold Cup and doubtful the KG would even be on the agenda (stable have Might Bite after all).

The 2m4f race at Aintree is tailor made for him but he may have had too hard a race yesterday for them to consider it.
Report duffy March 15, 2018 3:42 PM GMT
Hendo said why move him up...and to be honest...why move him up?Grin He's a budding superstar, if not already over 2 miles.
Report buddeliea March 15, 2018 5:53 PM GMT
Already a superstar,that performance yesterday on a glue pot proved that to me.
God knows what kind of performance he will produce when conditions are in his favour.
Report impossible123 March 15, 2018 6:15 PM GMT
The Gold Cup is a step too far in terms of distance; the Ryanair is a non-event only the O'Learys' would like to win and finally achieved that after 15 years today. The Champion Hurdle is a different discipline...best stay where he is and win as many Champion Chases he can, I believe.
Report the bloob March 15, 2018 9:58 PM GMT
something like the King George may be tempting, but if it isn't broke don't fix it, just try and win a couple more QMs
Report BornToWin March 15, 2018 10:52 PM GMT
I thought after his Supreme he was a future Gold Cup winner, but why risk it when you can mop up Champion Chases. A setback (albeit minor) and less than ideal conditions but still runs away from them.

I think he hits a flat spot (or 2) on bad ground like his old Daddy, but when the turbo kicks in it is goodnight.
Report buddeliea April 7, 2018 5:25 AM BST
Best chaser in training for me.
I was told at the open day that he would be going to Sandown for the celebration chase over 2m.
Now i hear he may be stepping up in distance for the melling chase at Aintree!!
Whatever distances hes comfortable with he will be fine,i just hope hes not asked to go further than he would like.
Report impossible123 April 7, 2018 10:21 AM BST
I think he'll win anything from 2m to 2.5m on any discipline eg Champion Hurdle to Ryanair; the Gold cup could be a couple of furlongs too far, I think.
Report GAZO April 7, 2018 1:25 PM BST
only really the trainers could tell you who is the best but the henderson stable seemed more bullish with the things they said about sprinter sacre and they have had at least three champions in sprinter sacre,altior and remmittance man
Report impossible123 April 7, 2018 2:02 PM BST
He is 4/6 with bookies but 3.05 here for £16 from £36,...layer with inside info?
Report foxy April 9, 2018 10:39 AM BST
altior cheltenhan and sandown against sprinter sacre cheltenham aintree and punchestown.

i think most know which of these two at there best would win.
Report duffy April 9, 2018 2:38 PM BST
Altior is a brilliant horse no question but he was allowed to be able to do what he did at Cheltenham because whilst he was struggling there was nothing in the race capable of capitalizing on it. A SS  in the race would have been away and gone whilst Altior was struggling which in turn would have had Altior in more bother, the race would have been over before/if Altior picked up.

That scenario may have played out if Douvan had remained in the race.
Report buddeliea April 9, 2018 9:05 PM BST
Not sure about SS,but I  confident that Altior is a better horse than Douvan ever was
Report buddeliea April 9, 2018 9:05 PM BST
Not sure about SS,but I  confident that Altior is a better horse than Douvan ever was
Report buddeliea April 10, 2018 7:53 AM BST
I can see this descending into a thread debating/arguing about who is the best etc etc.
That was not my intention when starting this thread so I will take back my last comment re Douvan.
I am not one for all that as it usually involves having pops at top horses that don't deserve that.


Really I was just saying, that to do what Altior did despite obvious dislike to conditions,was something we don't see that often, and to win like he did was very impressive.
Yes its possible Sprinter or Douvan could have won that race,and they may have enjoyed conditions better than Altior. Its also possible that the way Altior ran up that hill at the end he could have beaten any horse......we simply can never know.

My gut feeling is Altior is a special talent,and will hopefully stay injury free and go on to prove hes one of the best we have ever seen. I think he is now but I do recognise he will need to do more to convince others, and I also recognise at this moment it can only be an opinion.
Report impossible123 April 10, 2018 9:47 AM BST
I think it is indisputable and generally accepted by most, if not all, Altior is an exceptional horse the way he got himself together to win convincingly from a seemingly hopeless position in his Champion Chase triumph; the ground, no doubt, played a significant part even though he'd displayed this trait in most of his previous races before winning easily.

Whether horses like Sprinter Sacre and/or Douvan would have taken advantage of this "quirk" of his is debatable especially the latter who I think had been shielded and protected by connections in every race than he'd won eg beating non-entities, and a 3 miler ie Sizing John over 2m is no concrete yardstick to Douvan credential despite winning the Arkle and Champion Chase too; Douvan did not contest a Tingle Creek where the likes of Sprinter Sacre and/or Sire de Grudgy were in contention.

Fwiw, and personally, I'd have Altior before Douvan, the former would have easily won the Champion Hurdle given the achievements of Buveur D'air the horse he easily beat in the Supreme; Douvan won the Supreme too beating Shaneshill a horse that had been campaigned over 20f+ since, and definitely no Buveur D'air or Min, the horses that Altior beat convincingly in the Supreme.

But I think Sprinter Sacre was a beast; he could quicken off any pace and ran away from his competitors without breaking sweat at the business end; he also won another Champion Chase after a very long lay-off because of his dodgy heart.

For me Sprinter Sacre was the best; (2nd) Altior; a distant (3rd) Douvan.
Report irishone April 10, 2018 9:48 AM BST
hope you are right budd
Report Desmond Orchard April 10, 2018 12:50 PM BST
Spot on Budd.
It's inevitable people will have their favourites, but comparing horses from different eras is futile, just enjoy the champions we have - especially when you have one as special as Altior.
Report duffy April 10, 2018 2:16 PM BST
Comparing "athletes" from different eras is natural, it happens in all sports, buds initial assertion was a very strong one indeed I thought.

Altior has huge competition if budd can go back 30/40 years. He certainly wouldn't be in my top 3 at this stage although he may do in time, again I'd reiterate that he was able to stay in the race because there was nothing there to make the most of it and he was able to find his way back into it in his own time, if he was able to rally after something had really been pressing on and putting him under even more pressure then it would have had even greater merit.
Report duffy April 10, 2018 2:22 PM BST
I'm more guilty than most I admit at not giving horses enough credit for just being champions and repeatedly point to the opposition as a means of grading them, but if you want to acknowledge a horse as the best you've seen then you simply must look at the opposition to reach that opinion...Altior isn't there yet.

He'd have to smash up and I mean smash up the likes of Footpad just for starters next season just to get into the argument.

Altior is a very good horse and could be great but for me I couldn't possibly say he's there yet.
Report buddeliea April 11, 2018 7:48 AM BST
Yeh, fair comments Duffy.
I probably got a tad carried away with my opening post.
I was just so impressed with a horse winning in that way, seeming not to be enjoying conditions. Made me think what he could be capable of when all is right for him.
I do have this feeling though that hes right up there,or at least will be.
But I do go as far back as Badsworth Boy, who is probably the Daddy of them all......although Sprinter may have something to say about that!!
Report GAZO April 11, 2018 8:26 AM BST
why do you say he was not enjoying the conditions,he ran pretty much the same as he did in the arkle starting to get niggled along coming down the hill,just think his stamina kicks in going up the hill and he leaves them standing,if he was mine i would definately try him over longer.
Report foxy April 11, 2018 11:34 AM BST
i never saw crisp [other than 73 national] or flyingbolt but have seen the rest altior would fall into a category with azertyuiop,well chief,pearlyman,master minded and remittance man,you would then have moscow flyer and badsworth boy and on top of the pile without question would be sprinter sacre.
Report foxy April 11, 2018 11:52 AM BST
anyway thats mostly in the past the future as in the opening day of aintree what a disappointing card.
Report buddeliea April 11, 2018 12:26 PM BST
Gazo
I think hes a better horse on better ground and I put his struggling during the race down to the ground.
He wins on all surfaces because hes a class act, and a fair way in front of his rivals at 2miles, but better ground will imo see him at his best.
I take your point about trying further though,and his trainer has said hes looking forward to that,so what you say could well make sense,and yes his Arkle run was fairly similar.

I do recognise I could be wrong about the horse.
Report duffy April 11, 2018 2:42 PM BST
Viking Flagship deserves his place in the list for sureHappy
Report foxy April 11, 2018 3:25 PM BST
I know what you mean Duffy as probably does one man there all good but you have to leave some out if all fairness Dessie wasn’t a bad 2 miler just better over further.
Report duffy April 11, 2018 4:42 PM BST
I think Martha's Son would have found its way into my list if it hadn't had a lot of time off.
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