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eric_morris
08 Mar 18 22:34
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Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 53,343 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Is he a gonner?
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Pause Switch to Standard View Waiting Patiently just got matched at 34
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Report charwell. March 8, 2018 10:35 PM GMT
Suspended market on £3.65 so I am guessing yes sadly.

Thought he was a v good thing!
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 10:43 PM GMT
They have removed him from the market on here now
Report charwell. March 8, 2018 10:48 PM GMT
Yep. Gone.

If the owners have withdrawn him when he has a very opposable favourite and ground in his favour then it's a bit cowardly if you ask me. May never get a better chance and anything can happen in racing.

Really want to take UDS on but the opposition looks limited.
Report Fashion Fever March 8, 2018 10:57 PM GMT
don't agree with cowardly, a brave decision imo to close to ascot why leave a mark here

the king George and gold next year is what its all about
Report ACStafford March 8, 2018 10:58 PM GMT
Is this confirmed? I can't understand it personally. With the amount of prize money on offer at the festival, you can't really go around avoiding it nowadays, especially when it looks like the ground could be going in their favour.
Report charwell. March 8, 2018 10:59 PM GMT
Next year ground in GC may be too quick. Horse may be injured. Sometimes you don't get a 2nd chance. Was trading @ 3/1.

Not my horse but I would imagine 99% of owners would let him run and not wrap him in cotton wool.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 11:02 PM GMT
Suppose Cheltenham isnt the be all and end all for some. He had a hard race fairly close to the Festival. Next time maybe they will get a prep run in earlier to give recovery time.
Report charwell. March 8, 2018 11:17 PM GMT
He has had plenty of recovery time. Plenty more horses have had a much more physical campaign. I am saddened as this is meant to be the pinnacle of the sport and it reeks of a Frenchman waving his white hanky.
Report eric_morris March 8, 2018 11:22 PM GMT
Two and a half weeks ago isnt a long time for a chaser. Cue Card is a 12 yo and has to go for it. Waiting Patiently is only 7.
Report Steamship March 8, 2018 11:34 PM GMT
The Ascot run has taken more out of him and he has lost condition. He just might be a horse who wont take much racing.
Report firstimevisor March 8, 2018 11:49 PM GMT
Maybe he doesn't take his races well, and I accept that all horses are different. But Cue Card won the Ryanair at 7. Before that he had won the bumper at 4, was fourth in the Supreme at 5, and was second to Sprinter Sacre in the Arkle at 6. He hasn't had much luck there since but he's a great advertisement for running horses when they are fit and well.
Report duffy March 9, 2018 6:15 AM GMT
King George is what it's all aboutLaughLaughLaugh yeh perhaps they think the races come a bit too close together.

They haven't gotten the hang of this wrapping the horses up in cotton wool lark have they. You're supposed to miss the prep races and run in the big one, not the other way roundCrazyLaugh
Report Cash Is King March 9, 2018 7:44 AM GMT
6 day decs for the Thursday card out later today.  Presume decision communicated unofficially yesterday and some greedy insider decided to make a few quid.

Seems strange that betting suspended, horse taken out of Betfair and most bookies' lists even though no official announcement of Waiting Patiently's withdrawal has yet been made by connections.
Report buddeliea March 9, 2018 8:01 AM GMT
I am sure they are doing what they think is right for the horse,and they do know him a lot better than us.
If they feel its right not to go to Cheltenham,then we should just accept it imo.
Sometime decisions have to be made,and they will stand or fall by this one.
Horse may develop problems and hindsight may say should have done this or that,then again he may have a great season next,and they will feel they did the right thing.
Only time will tell which way that goes.
Report Cash Is King March 9, 2018 8:21 AM GMT
Lots of punter irritation stems from two things:

1) They hold antepost betting vouchers from positions taken a while back that are "in the money" all the while the horse is still likely to run. Lots of carping about kid glove treatment, wrapping horses up in cotton wool and flight vs fight but no matter how big the antepost position taken, most punters accept that it is the owner's prerogative to decide where and when there own horse should race.

2) Exchange price movements as insiders make a quick buck and betray the fact that a decision not to participate has been made but has yet to be formally communicated. This insider trading on the back of unpublished price sensitive information is illegal in stock markets but seems to be accepted behaviour and rarely investigated in respect of betting markets.
Report Cash Is King March 9, 2018 8:24 AM GMT
Brian Hughes apparently stated on Wednesday night (at Cartmel's Festival Preview) that Waiting Patiently wouldn't run.
Report festivalfanatic March 9, 2018 8:29 AM GMT
I saw that CIK although it wouldn't be Brian's decision. The line from connections has been very consistent and if Malcolm was still alive, the message might have been a bit more blunt. Maybe Aintree was always the plan but as Budd pointed out, horse welfare comes first and rightly so.
Report equine flew March 9, 2018 8:56 AM GMT
Cash is King, yes I can understand those 2 annoyances, but for me, I want to see the best horses taking each other on to create great races and spectacles.  Surely that is what our sport is all about. 

I do not want connections continually looking for outs, seeking near walk over opportunities, if it is safe to run, the horse should run.
Report impossible123 March 9, 2018 8:59 AM GMT
Scratched from the Ryanair - he'd lost condition, and the Aintree Bowl could be his next target. What price I wonder?
Report Autocue March 9, 2018 9:02 AM GMT
Absolutely the right decision as far as I'm concerned. He won well at Ascot but it looked to me like he had a hard race and was very keen to pull up after the line. He'll have learnt from the experience.
Report asparagus March 9, 2018 9:09 AM GMT
An odd decision to me as he'll never have a better chance to win a grade 1 at Cheltenham. The Ryan Air is a massively below par race this year and if the ground was good to soft or worse he'd have probably gone off 5/2-3/1. Obviously, we don't know the extent to the loss of condition, but the way in which they have been negative about Cheltenham both before and immediately after Ascot suggests that the decision was made a long time ago. Cheltenham isn't everything but he had a lot more chance of winning the Ryan Air this year than he would have in a gold cup next year.
Report impossible123 March 9, 2018 9:20 AM GMT
^^I tend to agree. I think there were 3 horses that ought not to have run in races and then got sidelined soon after eg Thistlecrack (Long Distance), Death Duty (Racing Post Novice) and yesterday Sizing John (Lexus).

Waiting Patiently could have been next,...Aintree it is and I'm a backer, all being well.
Report buddeliea March 9, 2018 9:34 AM GMT
Asparagus

I don't think the Gold Cup is on the agenda.
The King George is though.
To be honest I would not be at all surprised if we never see WP at a Cheltenham festival.
Report Cash Is King March 9, 2018 9:43 AM GMT
It's a great pity because the Ryanair is beginning to look a bit thin.

I'm sure connections realise that the conditions appear to be in their favour this year but one can't blame them for swerving Cheltenham if the horse isn't 100%.
Report impossible123 March 9, 2018 9:49 AM GMT
I think connections of WP have the King George at Kempton as his main target this year. And post a satisfactory or winning run WP would more likely to be targeting the 2019 Gold Cup at Cheltenham - there is only one Gold Cup!
Report Autocue March 9, 2018 10:58 AM GMT
They're genuine people and I don't think a Cheltenham decision was already made though they were honest about swinging that way. Ruth said: "We're taking him out of the Ryanair today. He came back from Ascot fine, but then when we started riding him again the weight dropped off. We'd love to have a Cheltenham Festival winner, obviously, so it is disappointing in some ways, but we can't take the horse if he's not 100 per cent. If I took him to Cheltenham looking light and he ran badly, I'd look pretty stupid. I've backed him off and he's already starting to look a bit better."
None of this comes as a surprise to me after the Ascot race and I wouldn't be backing Cue Card for the Ryanair either. Hopefully we'll see Waiting Patiently test the water at Cheltenham next year. As for those who said connections are cowards, they're either talking out of their pocket or else the wrong hole.
Report asparagus March 9, 2018 11:13 AM GMT
Buddeliea, yes i don't see him as a gold cup horse myself but was the suggestion earlier in the thread that there aim is king george and then gold cup. i agree with you too that he'll probably never run at a festival. And whilst cheltenham isn't everything, i do think it's worth trying him at the track once before you decide it doesn't suit 9which seems to have been on their minds all along). Maybe he has run up light but i still feel this decision was made a while ago and with the ground possibly coming up soft they've been looking for another reason.
Report sageform March 9, 2018 11:19 AM GMT
I laid off most of my WP ante post bet as soon as they expressed doubt after the Ascot run and it is no surprise that they are waiting for Aintree provided the horse is better by then.
Report Desmond Orchard March 9, 2018 11:24 AM GMT
Trainer gives pretty detailed explanation of why the horse is missing the race and punters think it’s either an excuse, a straight up lie, or that they are looking for reasons not to run him. And you wonder why they seem reluctant to communicate?
Obviously the drift and profit taking is disappointing, but it sounds like he was running up light last week and how many people work in the stable or speak to people who work in the stable - unfortunately it’s always going to happen and I’m surprised it wasn’t more pronounced.
Report buddeliea March 9, 2018 12:10 PM GMT
Well they may well try him at Cheltenham early next season...I certainly would.
I just get the impression they don't fancy the course for him, may be wrong of course.
Report ReaseHeath March 9, 2018 12:37 PM GMT
They had him entered in the December Gold Cup at Cheltenham but he was n't 100% in the lead up to that race so they waited for Kempton in January.

Fairly small stable, lost a really nice young horse in Black Ivory on the same day Waiting Patiently won at Ascot and also they might not want to run him and Cloudy Dream in the same race ideally. I can understand their caution and she has been consistent in her communication since Ascot.

Looking forward, they might have a problem in terms of the race programme for Cheltenham experience because he is now rated 170 and all the races over the intermediate trip are handicaps - they could run him in the Shloer at the Open Meeting over 2 miles under a penalty but would want some cut in the ground presumably.The other option would be the Cotswold Chase but, given his apparent fragility, it seems a big ask to sandwich that between the King George and the Gold Cup if they're the targets.I can't see them contemplating running him in next year's Gold Cup with zero course experience. 

Anyway, getting ahead of myself - what I'm really saying is I would n't be surprised if we're having a similar debate about Waiting Patiently this time next year...
Report maelduin March 9, 2018 3:24 PM GMT
I just get the impression they don't fancy the course for him

I agree. Think the only time we see him at Cheltenham will be if he runs in the GC.

He's lightly raced and they are clearly playing it softly softly with him. Interesting that he hasn't been tested over further then 2m5f yet. Personally i think they have doubts about his stamina. He doesn't look like a stayer to me. Can't wait to see him in the Bowl as long as there is a bit of cut in the ground.
Report wondersobright March 9, 2018 3:35 PM GMT
if that's the case then he should be in the gold cup this year as he would be a single price for it on this ground

likely to be back to normal good ground next year
Report impossible123 March 9, 2018 3:43 PM GMT
I do not think they would want to do a Thistlecrack or a Coneygree eg one season, the horse a goner.

Aintree is the sensible way to go this year. Post the King George the Blue Riband at Cheltenham next port of call.
Report wondersobright March 9, 2018 4:44 PM GMT

Mar 9, 2018 -- 3:43PM, impossible123 wrote:


I do not think they would want to do a Thistlecrack or a Coneygree eg one season, the horse a goner.Aintree is the sensible way to go this year. Post the King George the Blue Riband at Cheltenham next port of call.


quite possibly

and in no way am I dismissing this view or their campaigning of the horse

I just think this chat might sound v foolish if next winter/spring the horse picks up an injury or they struggle to get the ground they want for the races they should be aiming at next ssn given the ability of the horse

racing has a funny way of biting people on the backside for folding a good hand waiting for a better 1

Report wondersobright March 9, 2018 4:46 PM GMT
been plenty of soft ground horses over the last 20 years that never got the ground they needed at cheltenham
Report impossible123 March 9, 2018 4:55 PM GMT
Look at Our Duke. He was ready for the Gold Cup last season, according to most eg he dismissed a competitive field in the Irish National, I believe, but Harrington deliberately not ran him at the Festival; compare than to Sizing John who was going for any race in his way, and look what's happened to him this season - he is missing the Gold Cup.
Report wondersobright March 9, 2018 5:06 PM GMT
bird in the hand...
Report Desmond Orchard March 9, 2018 5:21 PM GMT
Our Duke was a novice last season and nobody thought he was ready for the Gold Cup - he won the Irish National a month after the festival, off 153.
I’m sure connections of Sizing John or indeed Coneygree, really regret running their horses in the Gold Cup Crazy
Besides, they’ve clearly stated that the horse isn’t right, so I’m not sure what people’s problem is?
Report wondersobright March 9, 2018 5:22 PM GMT
Besides, they’ve clearly stated that the horse isn’t right
where?
Report Tiger Tiger March 9, 2018 5:28 PM GMT
In the last 20 years only Synchronised has ran further than the Gold Cup distance and gone on to win the Gold Cup, out of the 89 who tried! funny old thing stats mind you.
Report Desmond Orchard March 9, 2018 5:29 PM GMT
You’ve got strong views for someone not following the story.....
Ruth Jefferson, “short of peak form” “He came back from Ascot OK, but when we started to ride him again the weight dropped off him....” “needs another easy week”
It’s all out there.
Report unclepuncle March 9, 2018 5:32 PM GMT
Excellent decision in the long term interests of the horse.
Report impossible123 March 9, 2018 5:35 PM GMT
If so, Native River, Our Duke, Minella Rocco or Definitely Red could be the 90th.
Report Tiger Tiger March 9, 2018 5:39 PM GMT
Thats right, would rule all of them outCrazy Hope the stats are wrong this time as I've backed one of them.
Report wondersobright March 9, 2018 5:51 PM GMT
desmond if you believe that bollox you will believe anything

sure he probably took time to get over the ascot run, that's usually the case with horses that run to 170+

but they were never going to run imo and now the soft ground has come so have the excuses
Report wondersobright March 9, 2018 5:53 PM GMT
how many horses running next week do you think will be short of peak form
plenty that's how many
you will struggle to find a trainer who hasn't had horses held up with their work for 1 reason or another
Report charwell. March 9, 2018 6:50 PM GMT
This was maybe his perfect opportunity.

Can make all the bs excuses in the world but a v weak field and perfect ground are before him. This time next year they will probably rue not letting him take his chance,
Report Desmond Orchard March 9, 2018 7:26 PM GMT
You asked me what was said Wonder, I just repeated the quotes, you can choose to believe them or not. I do, the stable aren’t known for bull5hitting
They were very clear that they had misgivings about running here and the horse being less than 100% probably helped make up their mind, as Ruth said herself, she would look a fool running the horse if it was under the weather and didn’t perform. It may look a weak race, but I can’t think of many sub-par chasers that would have the beating of UDS.
I do understand that there are punters who believe there fiver ante-post should guarantee them a run and that there are those who think that the game is rotten to the core and everyone involved is corrupt and looking to put punters away every chance they get.
To those people I say this; why bother? Find something else that you do believe in, in which to invest your emotional capital. Life is short.
Report wondersobright March 9, 2018 7:32 PM GMT
I have no financial involvement in the ryanair or any A/P race market at cheltenham

I'd like to see him in the race for the sake of the sport and also for racing in the north

I think the stuff that has come out in the last few days is laughable quite frankly although I respect their decision not to run
Report wondersobright March 9, 2018 7:34 PM GMT
if it was only the horses who were 100% that were running there wouldn't be many runners next week

but if they want to mind the horse and only run him when he's 100% then that's there choice
Report Desmond Orchard March 9, 2018 7:45 PM GMT
So, for the sake of the North, you think the stable should run a sub-par 7yo with his whole career ahead of him in a potentially gruelling G1 chase against arguably the best 2.5 chaser in training. Presumably in the hope that it A) wins B) isn’t f***ed for the foreseeable.
The horse could be anything, the stable would’ve loved a festival winner, particularly given recent events. I doubt they’ve taken the decision lightly and were he 100% I think he would’ve run. You don’t, game of opinions as everyone is keen to point out.
Report wondersobright March 9, 2018 7:59 PM GMT
Desmond Orchard • March 9, 2018 7:45 PM GMT
So, for the sake of the North, you think the stable should run a sub-par 7yo


lol get a grip ffs

just keep believing everything they spoon you
Report Desmond Orchard March 9, 2018 8:12 PM GMT
Sensible discussion over, I see.
And folk wonder where all the decent posters are......
Report buddeliea March 9, 2018 9:01 PM GMT
I would like to have seen him in the race as well,especially with the loss of Top Notch.
We now have 2 of the antepost favs as non runners, and the race is a lot worse off now.

That however does not give me the right to call people who care about the horse and know the horse, basically liars.
These are people who have been nothing but honest with us about this horse for ages now.
Any stick they get on here or anywhere else is imo totally unwarranted.
Report Autocue March 9, 2018 9:34 PM GMT
The lass has just lost her Dad who was obviously a major influence on her life and career. I can't understand why people would want to crab her for what looks like a patently sensible decision. We've seen a few sons and daughters struggle along for a bit after the deaths of famous trainer parents and then they pack it in. They're hard acts to follow. I wish her luck and hope she can carry on where her Dad left off. She's made a good start.
Report wondersobright March 9, 2018 9:37 PM GMT
nobody is calling them liars
Report Steamship March 9, 2018 10:22 PM GMT
Ruth was  straight with people about Cheltenham within 1 hour of his Ascot win. We don't know what the owners input has been on the subject.
Good decision imo.
Report buddeliea March 10, 2018 6:23 AM GMT
desmond if you believe that bollox you will believe anything

That seems to suggest that you dont believe them.
Report sageform March 10, 2018 7:41 AM GMT
The big puzzle is why he shortened again after being pushed right out following the statement from connections after Ascot when they made it pretty clear that they didn't like Cheltenham.
Report Autocue March 10, 2018 8:09 AM GMT
Speculation to begin with I suppose then people getting sucked in by the shortening price. Happens a lot.
Report wondersobright April 3, 2018 11:56 AM BST
I just think this chat might sound v foolish if next winter/spring the horse picks up an injury or they struggle to get the ground they want for the races they should be aiming at next ssn given the ability of the horse

racing has a funny way of biting people on the backside for folding a good hand waiting for a better 1


injured and misses aintree Plain
Report duffy April 3, 2018 3:32 PM BST
I wonder if everyone is still back slapping at the assumption that because CC ran no race it automatically meant that WP would have did the same.Crazy

bonkers not to run in the Ryanair....the big excuse about the ground did not even exist...they had their groundCrazy
Report Autocue April 3, 2018 5:02 PM BST
It would have been a brilliant decision to run the horse in the Ryanair when it wasn't working well Crazy
I wonder if everyone who thought the horse should run when not right in case it has a setback later is backslapping today Crazy
Report irishone April 4, 2018 9:21 AM BST
jefferson wouldnt last five minutes over here
he really does look after his horses
he is probably top of the non runners league
there are a few of them over there
dr richard and emma do the same thing
dont run them unless 100%
winning percentage more important than number of runners
they think their clever ......
Report irishone April 4, 2018 9:24 AM BST
* they are ! Laugh
Report sageform April 4, 2018 11:32 AM BST
Thee horse has probably had a minor issue since Ascot which has now got worse and so he is out for this season and possibly for next season as well which is a terrible shame.
Report irishone April 4, 2018 12:06 PM BST
it is a shame but you cant wrap them in cotton wool
Report Desmond Orchard April 4, 2018 1:14 PM BST
Yes, I’m sure all that standing around in his box and taking things easy have caused this latest setback Crazy
Report irishone April 4, 2018 10:51 PM BST
they have only got to lie down at an awkward angle and they can get up lame , many have cast themselves in a stable and not survived.

horses dont stand around in their stables..... if only they did !
Report wondersobright April 5, 2018 4:02 PM BST
agree with you irish
some absolute bollox has been spoken on this thread about this horse & on other similar threads
you cant wrap them in cotton wool 100% SPOT ON
Report wondersobright April 5, 2018 4:04 PM BST
how many times do you think horses are 100% sound, fit, happy and healthy??

almost never in their career that's how often

if owners & trainers don't want to run them then fine, its their prerogative

but let's not have the lectures on here
Report irishone April 6, 2018 9:30 AM BST
dont think many on here can be owners
let alone trainers
if they were
they would know the score !
Report irishone April 7, 2018 9:44 AM BST
genie in a bottle found dead in his stable this morning ......
Report Autocue April 11, 2018 8:29 PM BST
"jefferson wouldnt last five minutes over here
he really does look after his horses
he is probably top of the non runners league"

This nobhead doesn't even realise Mal Jefferson is dead Crazy
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