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Can't Catch Me
06 Jan 17 08:47
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Date Joined: 02 Apr 03
| Topic/replies: 26,565 | Blogger: Can't Catch Me's blog
Right. Seems a good time to get a thread up about this lad, before he puts himself firmly into the Cheltenham picture this weekend Mischief

Colin Tizzard has made no secret of just how highly he rates this horse, and that surely has to make you sit up and listen. I thought it was a tremendous performance at Hereford, really jumped well and seems to have a massive engine. Handled the soft ground well that day which bodes well for the Tolworth, but being by Oscar, he should be pretty versatile ground wise, and did win his point on good ground.

I think he may have beaten a pretty decent horse at Hereford last time...and he did with it ease. Hopefully he will take the step up in grade in his stride.

I've taken the 12/1 to win Any Race and also had a dabble at 20/1 in the Neptune. Very surprised to see him shorter in the betting for the Supreme. Considering he won going away at Hereford over 2m5f, and the Tolworth on soft going is generally a race for more staying types, I'd be very surprised if the Supreme was the race for him.

Thoughts anyone?
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Report impossible123 December 5, 2017 4:44 PM GMT
Jb23, many thanks. PM is another good horse with a penchant for picking up an injury with regularity, it seems. He could the 1st antepost of mine to bite the dust prior to the event. Now relying solely on Footpad for a bit of recompense (hopefully).

I think at this juncture Yanworth, unless his jumping improves to Gp 1 standard, the pace of any Gp1 16f-20f chase may be too quick for him. I think over 24f the more sedate pace and extra distance of the race will allow him more time at the fences and chances of catching-up too. Also, he's little stamina worries at 24f than some of the others including Willoughby Court, in my opinion.
Report joevalue147 December 5, 2017 6:03 PM GMT
Finians Oscar entered in 2m novice at Sandown to set up a potential clash with Brian Power, Sceaux Royal  and North Hill HarveyShocked .   Easy to back on here though and having opened up at 13/8 with Billy Hills now hes available at 7/2 so maybe connections have decided to stick to 2 and a half miles.  Praying that's the only reason for the drift and a problem has'nt arisen.  Maybe they are waiting for an easier race over 2mile.  ????
Report Can't Catch Me December 5, 2017 7:16 PM GMT
Think they've said they have entered him purely because it's a Grade 1, but are more likely to wait for Cheltenham.
Report eric_morris December 5, 2017 11:14 PM GMT
Think everyone knows he isnt quick enough for the Arkle. They will wait to see what is in the JLT in march and if Willoughby Court shows up can see them missing Cheltenham and going to Aintree again with Finian’s Oscar.
Report Catch Me ifyoucan December 8, 2017 3:16 PM GMT
1.45 Sandown
Finian's Oscar is unbeaten in two races over fences at around two and a half miles this season, but drops back to two miles. The dual Grade One-winning novice hurdler had been expected to line up at Cheltenham next week, but trainer Colin Tizzard decided the horse was in such good condition that he may as well strike while the iron is hot.

"It looks a cracking race. There's good prize money and Finian's Oscar is in really good form," said the Dorset handler. "Do we wait a week for Cheltenham or go for this one? We saw no reason why we shouldn't go for this one. That's why we're here."
Report eric_morris December 9, 2017 1:54 PM GMT
I thank you


eric_morris 20 Nov 17 23:49 Joined: 27 Jun 10 | Topic/replies: 4,533 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Fk all chance over 2 miles in top class  he would be left by quicker horses then blunder his way catching up with them. Would have to be a very poor Arkle for this to not happen. Lets see it get him in the 2 miler
Report eric_morris December 9, 2017 1:59 PM GMT
Really?

Graeme83 24 Nov 17 21:12 Joined: 21 Sep 07 | Topic/replies: 9,041 | Blogger: Graeme83's blog
I think thyey should stick to the Arkle plan, as long as there's no scarey good 2 miler around. I've saw nothing so far that would put me off. Joe is one of the best out there. He'll know what to do
Report eric_morris December 9, 2017 2:00 PM GMT
Still this..

eric_morris 02 Dec 17 16:00 Joined: 27 Jun 10 | Topic/replies: 4,535 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
Willoughby Court good enough to hold off Neon Wolf over hurdles could easily do the same with Finians Oscar in a JLT.

After the performances of Thistlecrack and Cue Card the stable may not be heading for a good Festival
Report eric_morris December 9, 2017 2:02 PM GMT
They have just ruined the horses confidence over a trip he was never going to lay up in. First time out screamed that out.

The Tizzards real howler there.
Report Catch Me ifyoucan December 9, 2017 2:03 PM GMT
JLT or Aintree ???
Report Desmond Orchard December 9, 2017 2:03 PM GMT
Dead right Eric.
They went a fair old clip and he just couldn't go it.
Worryingly, for his supporters, is how far off these he was. He seemed so slow you couldn't think another half mile would see him mixing with the best novices. He's perhaps a touch short of top class.
Report Desmond Orchard December 9, 2017 2:03 PM GMT
Dead right Eric.
They went a fair old clip and he just couldn't go it.
Worryingly, for his supporters, is how far off these he was. He seemed so slow you couldn't think another half mile would see him mixing with the best novices. He's perhaps a touch short of top class.
Report eric_morris December 9, 2017 2:04 PM GMT
Aintree next but horses confidence destroyed.
Report Desmond Orchard December 9, 2017 2:12 PM GMT
Power was fairly easy on him once he knew he was out of his depth. So I'm not sure it will leave a scar mentally.
He will be more comfortable in his fencing if going a step slower.
Report eric_morris December 9, 2017 2:39 PM GMT
Have to be pretty poor to not win a race at the Festival with this really talented horse but it looks likely now after they p*ssed punters around last year on his running plans imo. Karma as a punter but sorry for the horse.
Report duffy December 9, 2017 4:29 PM GMT
He was beat the moment the tapes went up, stable have had a bad day, it was too bad to be true today, so for sure I'd be giving him another chance, but yes, the JLT looks the right race on balance.
Report sageform December 9, 2017 4:39 PM GMT
Ainchea, Golden Surprise and Ultragold still ran well for Tizzard today and Fox Norton won £32k for second in the TC. Most trainers would be delighted with a day like that. Finians the real bomb out.
Report Can't Catch Me December 9, 2017 5:10 PM GMT
Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course, but I imagine CT is kicking himself tonight. Looked a very poor decision to run him here, very early.
Report impossible123 December 9, 2017 7:08 PM GMT
I thought connections admitted it was a mistake coming back in trip despite needing every yard to win over 20f the previous time. I also think connections were reported to have said the RSA would be the target at Cheltenham; if so, he could meet Yanworth another less convincing Gp 1 fencer at Cheltenham next March.
Report eric_morris December 9, 2017 7:19 PM GMT
He has the pace for 2m5f but it may not matter as his confidence was destroyed today. He may find one staying on better at 3m where his sharp turn of foot might disappear at the longer trip.

Pleased he isnt in any bets this year thought they might mess him up.
Report firstimevisor December 9, 2017 9:05 PM GMT
I don't know yet what his ideal trip is, but it sure wasn't just the trip that beat him today. He never travelled at any stage and was tailing further off the longer the race went on. That run can just be ignored. Something was clearly wrong with the horse.
Report buddeliea December 10, 2017 8:20 AM GMT
yep,i would be inclined to put a line through that yeaterday.
His next run will tell us more.I have never thought hes a 2 miler,but he would not have performed over any distance yesterday.
Report bluebirdfan December 10, 2017 8:53 AM GMT
He’s far from a natural chaser, doesn’t jump his fences very well at all
Report impossible123 December 11, 2017 1:52 PM GMT
I did not watch his last race however, the race prior he jumped ok but needed every yard of 20f to beat the 2nd whose name slipped me at the moment. Nevertheless, I think the RSA (if his jumping warms up thro' the race) would have a favourite's chance come race day; the conundrum could be...Finians Oscar or Yanworth - both non-natural jumper - but hugely talented.
Report sageform December 11, 2017 4:30 PM GMT
entered at Cheltenham on Saturday.
Report bluebirdfan December 11, 2017 4:32 PM GMT
Monalee will be favourite for the RSA
Report joevalue147 December 12, 2017 7:32 AM GMT
Are people just fooking stupid or what.   Hes a horse with a change of gear and more than a touch of class.   He doesnt need or want to be going into a gruelling RSA. He got outstayed by Bacardys in Punchestown last year.   It is like as if ye all want to ignore what he has won already over fences and done so impressively.  2m 5 is his proper trip.  They ran him over 2 mile last saturday out of pure greed because the prizemoney was good.  If they run him in the RSA the hosre should be taken off him.    He was brilliant against Movewiththetimes around Cheltenham over 2m4 and there was no reason to start chopping and changing.  They need to stick to what suits the horse best and thats JLT trip.   Never mind what race has the more pretisge or prizemoney.   Dont fook the horse up over prizemoney.
Report firstimevisor December 12, 2017 9:39 AM GMT
He'd have been beaten even further on Saturday if the race had been over 2m 5,and that's if he finished at all. It wasn't the trip but something was clearly amiss and they must have found an explanation for him to be entered up again so quickly.
Report Cash Is King December 12, 2017 9:44 AM GMT
I think it's complete nonsense when trainers say that a decent horse will win over any distance and on any going.

That said, Finian's Oscar didn't jump particularly well when it won at Cheltenham in November and seemed to be taken off his feet at Sandown on Saturday. I'm not sure the trip was the problem - decent stayers like My Way de Solzen had no trouble winning Grade 1 chases over 2 miles - and hopefully something will come to light in the coming days to explain the poor performance.
Report joevalue147 December 13, 2017 11:41 AM GMT
My Way De Solzen's Arkle fell apart when Twist Magic and Dont Push It fell indepentantly 2 out.   The winner was left to beat Fair Along who was ridden far too aggresively.   Alan King had luck very much on side after making the decision he did. Anyway Finian's Oscar has never been described as a stayer.   So i dont get the My Way De Solzen argument.  They tried Finian's at 2miles and it clearly didnt work.  They could bottom him out in an RSA and then they might not have the same horse to go to war with in his first all age year if they continue to sour him.  Said it before and i'll say it again.  If its not broke, why change it??   Greed thats why.
Report firstimevisor December 13, 2017 1:22 PM GMT
What has greed got to do with it? That run on Saturday proved nothing. He'd have run a shocker no matter what trip it was.
Report eric_morris December 13, 2017 2:14 PM GMT
First time out Finians Oscar was having to be pushed to keep up before coming on the bridle as his stamina kicked in, last time out even more so over a shorter trip.

Why dont we ask Tizzard to stick him in another 2 miler just to show beyond doubt he doesnt have 2mile pace. Obviously everyone knows that isnt going to happen so can bluff away about the horse knowing they arent going to be made to look silly (again).
Report eric_morris December 13, 2017 2:33 PM GMT
Anyone who has backed him for the Arkle just because the Coral employed Tizzards were announcing that was his likely target needs to just learn from it then rip up their slip amd move on.
Report joevalue147 December 13, 2017 2:47 PM GMT
The prizemoney for the Sandown grade 1 last Saturday lured them in imo.   Shocking decision to now go 3mile for the rest of the season after the horse showing them he's best at 2 Mile 4/5 furlongs.   Theres the JLT which is tailormade for him and they seem like thats the last race they want to run him in.   Oh, and guess what.   JLT is less prizemoney than RSA.   Why fanny about with trip when they know he's brilliant over JLT trip.??   Tizzards trying to 'milk' the horse for all they can get.
Report firstimevisor December 13, 2017 3:15 PM GMT
There's very little difference between 2 mile pace and 2m 4 pace.They go off at more or less the same gallop. All national hunt horses are stayers. They have more than one specific trip.
Report eric_morris December 13, 2017 3:47 PM GMT
Wrong imo
Report eric_morris December 13, 2017 3:56 PM GMT
Over 2m they are getting in a fast jumping rhythm straight away from the off trying to gain clean jumping momentum as a mistake gives less time to recover than the longer trip where stamina can make up ground. Ground against other speed horses much harder to make up with less stopping in front.
Brain Power has that natural 2m speed without being asked, Finians Oscar doesnt which is a massive disadvantage having to scrub to make him go faster than he wants early. He wants to drop in at a normal pace and settle into his jumping for the first two miles he doesnt want to race before then.
Report eric_morris December 13, 2017 4:56 PM GMT
He has a 4 to 5 length kick at two and a half miles which he has shown often enough takes him away from most horses. Whether the extra half mile at a course like Cheltenham will allow his legs to preserve that kick until late is unknown. The RSA is a race where you really need to stay on galloping relentlessly up that hill and bursts of speed that dont last long are less important than at two and a half.
Report eric_morris December 13, 2017 5:10 PM GMT
All horses are different.

You generally have speed horses at 2 mile, speed/stamina horses at 2m4f and stamina horses at 3m.

2m you are looking for a naturally high cruising speed throughout the race to just aim at the fences using little extra energy to keep with the pace and get into a fast rhythm and have a kick for late. Speed everything at this trip.

2m4f you are looking for a horse who doesnt set alight early and who gets into a good comfortable rhythm waiting for the latter half mile where the race heats up and the horses with a mix of stamina and speed will go on. Those having stamina combined with a late burst of speed best.

3m similar to 2m4f with extra stamina required which can sap the kick from 2m4f horses as the relentless gallopers push them to the limit.

Sometimes you get 2m4f horses who barely just have the speed for 2m and these are the unusual types, like Captain Chris, who dont lose touch enough over 2m to enable them to devour the hill. Other times, as with Finians Oscar you have a definite 2m4f horse who doesnt have the speed to stay in touch at 2m for his stamina to take advantage late.
Report firstimevisor December 13, 2017 5:42 PM GMT
Finians Oscar easily won a grade 1 over 2 miles. He's not devoid of speed and he possesses enough pace to have had a proper chance last saturday had he done no more than run his normal race.

If that had been 2m 4 or 3m he would have been lapped, so it wasn't the trip that beat him. In fact, Brain Power tearing off in front like he did should have helped, as it did with Sceau Royal who was switched off and produced late.

There is practically no difference in the speed they go whether its 2m or 2m 4 and when you get a hard pulling horse in front (Un de Sceaux!), the pace will be the same regardless of trip.
Report eric_morris December 13, 2017 6:11 PM GMT
Ok mate i’ve tried to explain relative pace and we will agree to disagree again.
Report easygold December 13, 2017 6:12 PM GMT
You keep saying no difference in speed over 2m- 2m4f..... if you re-watch any 2m Arkle, 2m Queen Mother or Grand Annual and re-watch any JLT you will straight away see the difference in the first half mile of the contest.... go and time the first half mile of each... and you will see the massive difference
Report firstimevisor December 13, 2017 7:30 PM GMT
Cant agree there-very little difference...certainly not massive and sometimes the longer race is run at a faster tempo.

All jumpers,by their very nature,are stayers.2 miles is not a sprint. As a general rule they gallop within their comfort zones and the pace lifts towards the end of the race, whatever the distance.

In any era, hurdles or fences, the best horses would beat the rest at either distance.
Report easygold December 13, 2017 9:54 PM GMT
Did you do what you where asked to do? Time the races??? and you will learn the difference between both disciplines. Do the data and you will get the results.
Noble Prince is a hint, that 2 miles over fences/hurdles was too short but look what happened when Nolan made-up for the error running him in the V.O.B C.Hurdle.... JLT.
Report harry callaghan December 14, 2017 5:02 AM GMT
some strange stuff being written about this horse, personally i don't believe him to be a very good jumper from what i have seen...saturday was his first test at speed and jumping and he collapsed quicker than a cheap tent...he could be an expensive horse to follow this season and if i were them i'd pull stumps and go back over hurdles because things are only going to get tougher...i'm praying they run him in the feltham
Report joevalue147 December 14, 2017 10:46 AM GMT
Couldnt agree with eric more here.   How anyone thinks 2mile pace and 2mile 4pace are roughly the same is beyond me.
Report joevalue147 December 14, 2017 10:49 AM GMT
If any horse went off 2 mile pace in the JLT they would be a million to get home. Especially on the New Course which is much stiffer than the Old Course.   Although some people probably think theres not much difference between the two tracks.
Report eric_morris December 14, 2017 11:00 AM GMT
joevalue147 i think you are talking to Arkle vouchers looking for a run. Little point in arguing with impossible hope.
Report firstimevisor December 14, 2017 11:28 AM GMT
Right,I've done as you asked Easygold and here is the data for the 7 championship chases at this year's Cheltenham festival

[b]Race/Winner/Weight[/b]                            Race Distance in Yards               Time in Seconds                 Average Time-Seconds Per Mile

Altior  Arkle  11-4                                                     3499                                                335.00                                      118.20

Special Tiara   QM   11-10                                              3499                                                335.40                                      118.41

Might Bite   RSA    11-4                                                5360                                                368.80                                      121.09

Yorkhill    JLT    11-4                                                 4378                                                300.02                                      120.61

Un De Sceaux   Ryanair 11-10                                            4566                                                309.60                                      119.34

Sizing John   Gold Cup  11-10                                           5790                                                396.10                                      120.40

Pacha De Polder  Foxhunters  12-0                                       5790                                                402.80                                      122.44



As you can see,there is very little difference in speed over various trips - Sizing John actually covered the JLT trip faster than Yorkhill even though he had an extra 7 furlongs to race.
Report easygold December 14, 2017 12:00 PM GMT
No u didn`t do what was asked.......... the first half-mile of the 2m races vs any of the JTL....... u will see that 3.9 seconds+ some are run 4.8 seconds quicker in the first half-mile and some even 6.s quicker...... do you understand that the first half-mile of the race is so important for horses that want further than two-miles there race can be over..... and sometimes their price is three-times bigger after a half-mile gone.
Report firstimevisor December 14, 2017 1:29 PM GMT
How fast the leader is going in the first half mile is irrelevant if that same horse is tailing off in the last half mile.Going an even pace increases their chances of winning

The stats posted above prove my point, that there is most certainly not a massive difference in how fast horses are travelling at different distances. Its over to you now if you are trying to prove otherwise.I'm not doing it for you.
Report bluebirdfan December 14, 2017 2:34 PM GMT
A heck of a lot of people seem to be missing the obvious with this horse. Regardless of what trip is his best; he’s just not a very good jumper of fences is he? Looks far from a natural chaser
Report impossible123 December 14, 2017 5:46 PM GMT
The JLT is too hot a race with the likes of Willoughby Court and Death Duty both good jumpers and also stay 20f very well. As such, Finians Oscar cannot afford to be handicapped by his fencing against them. The RSA, in my opinion, is an easier race to win; Monalee is fav but I'd fancy Yanworth and/or Finians Oscar, if either turns up. I know little about Presenting Percy, and Bacardys is not for me either on given form and connections.
Report Ibrahima Sonko December 14, 2017 10:08 PM GMT
Im his biggest fan, he doesnt jump efficiently to win top races at this moment.

Should try him at a 3mile hurdle to see where he is.
Report DontBeSakhee December 14, 2017 11:06 PM GMT
Given that he won a PtP race, beating a reasonable yardstick in Mr Clarkson, I’d be inclined to think he’d stay 3 miles. Personally I’d stick him into a lower grade 3 mile novice chase and see how he gets on. Running him in the Dipper on New Year’s Day won’t really tell anyone anything we don’t already know.

The 2 mile issue has [hopefully] been put to bed, get the 3 mile issue sorted and then move forward with whatever the best trip is, or at least appears to be.

A theory (only my own I should point out) around all the really strange obsessing from Tizzard about FO being an Arkle horse very early on this jumps season, could’ve been that Sizing John runs in the same colours. If they were to go down the 3 mile route and it was a success then there’s only one race they could aim for next year and by then they could be aiming for a third GC for SJ. The Potts were notoriously demanding owners, so if Alan Potts told Tizzard he wanted a Queen Mother horse then I doubt CT would’ve risked them moving the horses from his yard.

Conjecture on my part, but if that were right then with the deaths of both Alan and Ann and with uncertainty around who now owns the horses and/or what will happen to them I guess CT would have a bit more scope to do what he wants.
Report joevalue147 December 14, 2017 11:46 PM GMT
If he wins the Dipper he will have beaten the current favourite for the JLT and if he wins in commanding fashion then he will be the new clear favourite for the JLT.   So,.... connections will have LEARNED that he is the best novice in the UK over 2m 4 without much doubt.  And having beat Death Duty easily at the Punchestown festival last season surely there would be no need to step him up and take a chance(this season) to see if he stays 3 mile plus.  I can see why people doubt his jumping but he seems clever enough to me and he got into a lovely rhytmn when he beat Movewithetimes,...... low and behold over 2mile and 4.5furlongs.  Willoughby Court will try and grind them into submission but i can see Finian's doing him for toe between the final 2 fences and staying on strongly up the hill to win in ready fashion.  Willoughby Court's connections may well decide to go RSA after the Dipper as he seems a through stayer and looked to have plenty move to give when winning at the Cheltenham Festival last year when holding off Neon Wolf(rip champ).Cry  That's the way i'm reading it but obviously we all probably need a crystal ball to help us out.  One way or the other The Dipper on New Years day is essential viewing and what the antepost game is all about.  Good luck to everyone especially me and Eric. Laugh
Report harry callaghan December 15, 2017 4:44 AM GMT
had to reach for a bucket after reading your post joevalue what a lot of nonsense, still whatever helps you believe in your bet
Report eric_morris December 15, 2017 6:48 AM GMT
joevalue i havent backed Finians Oscar antepost after the nonsense with announcements from Tizzards last Festival. Backed him on his penultimate run this season when he won and thats it. Not happy with Tizzards being a ‘sponsored trainer’ of Carols have found announcements on targets by them very bizarre.
Report joevalue147 December 15, 2017 9:46 AM GMT
Corals go 5/1 worst price for JLT so maybe thats the hint .
Report sageform December 15, 2017 1:25 PM GMT
Might have Cooper back on board from now on?
Report joevalue147 December 15, 2017 7:32 PM GMT
yes deffo sage
Report Graeme83 December 16, 2017 12:04 AM GMT
Not convinced sandown was him. Wouldn't have done anything over any distance.
Report wellchief December 16, 2017 8:44 AM GMT
Think he's a bit overrated myself,not sure anything he's done on track warrants his very lofty reputation thus far.

Won the Tolworth well but nothing has come out of that, and his G1 at Aintree was a poor race and he was a fresh horse having missed the festival, and then didn't manage to get his head in front in Ireland.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good horse and may well be a very good one in the future but I fear some may be following him blind based on one or two good performances last year where the form has yet to stack up.
Report sageform December 16, 2017 9:30 AM GMT
Hard to win any of the Festival Novice chasers if you make mistakes or even jump slowly. That makes FO and Yanworth poor value for me.
Report impossible123 December 16, 2017 5:12 PM GMT
Between Finians Oscar and Yanworth, I'd side with the latter who has better form, I believe; he also finished behind Yorkhill in the Neptune.
Report sageform December 18, 2017 4:30 PM GMT
I would take FO to learn to jump fences eventually as he has the scope but Yanworth is short coupled and not suited to fences imo.
Report Can't Catch Me December 18, 2017 5:12 PM GMT
I think wellchief's post is spot on.

Very good horse, but probably not out of the very top drawer. Couldn't fancy him for any race at the next Festival myself.
Report eric_morris December 22, 2017 3:12 PM GMT
Clear as day 2m was too sharp for him last time. He also doesnt attack his fences, he is ok at them but loses ground.
Report firstimevisor December 22, 2017 3:30 PM GMT
If the festival was in the next few weeks he would have absolutely no business going there. Nowhere near good enough at present at any trip if this is now his true ability.
Report eric_morris December 22, 2017 3:45 PM GMT
Did well to run that well after being messed around only a week ago. Horse doesnt know wtf they want from him.
Report unclepuncle December 22, 2017 7:29 PM GMT
Coral Cup?
Report impossible123 December 22, 2017 10:51 PM GMT
Tizzard: "We'll go up in trip and put some cheekpieces or blinkers on."

RSA beckons, I presume. From 16f, then 21f and perhaps 24f next time - interesting running plans.
Report buddeliea December 23, 2017 8:10 AM GMT
Do they know what they are doing?

Looks to me like they are trying to make a chaser out of a horse that may not be enjoying chasing.
Report FOYLESWAR December 23, 2017 9:07 AM GMT
he was only narrowly beaten yesterday ,a big improvement on his last run but some horses just dont take to chasing and may be he would be better off back over hurdles. a few come to mind in recent years  who didnt impress  over fences ie big bucks and beuvair dair and going back over hurdles certainly didnt harm them .......
Report eric_morris December 23, 2017 9:22 AM GMT
I think 2m5f will turn out to be his best trip as he has the stamina combined with 5 length kick at the end of the race that not many have.

Biggest issue with fences currently is it cancels the effectiveness of that kick at the end of the race which hurdles doesnt remove as they allow him to maintain his momentum and rhythm without burning it off early.

I would keep him at 2m5f and see if his fencing confidence improves and he becomes less careful. Once relaxed his kick will return over fences at the trip. If he doesnt take to them after a few more outings then revert to hurdles with the Aintree Hurdle his ideal race.
Report impossible123 December 23, 2017 3:33 PM GMT
I think it is too far down the chasing line to revert back to hurdling this season. Also, the only race open to him will be the Stayers, a race significantly less prestigious than the Gold Cup thus I think connections will persevere with him over fences this season.
Report bluebirdfan December 27, 2017 10:55 AM GMT
They’ll persevere with him over fences, keep messing about with the trip etc etc but the fact is he’s been disappponting over fences and if they had any sense they would have reverted to hurdles and be aimed at the Stayers division which looks weak. He just isn’t a natural chaser, think he’s hit the first fence every run now
Report impossible123 December 27, 2017 2:35 PM GMT
Post his defeat in the Henry VII Chase over 2m connections intimated the 3m Kauto Star Chase would be his next race. Instead a late decision took him to the 21f Mitie Noel Chase, and got stuffed (again). Similarly, Fox Norton from the same stable, from 2m to 3m in one go; baffling is too mild a description for behaviour of connections, I think.

Let's hope connections of FO put him in the RSA eventually.
Report unclepuncle January 9, 2018 8:19 PM GMT
Back to hurdles it is - who’d have thought that.Devil
Report bluebirdfan January 11, 2018 2:40 PM GMT
Good to see Tizzard finally listened to me, just hope he hasn’t soured the horse permanently
Report unclepuncle January 27, 2018 4:11 PM GMT
Oh dear - Tizzard has really messed the horse up.
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y January 27, 2018 4:12 PM GMT
aye where do you go now ?
Report unclepuncle January 27, 2018 4:13 PM GMT
Maybe send the horse to Henry de Bromhead.Laugh
Report impossible123 January 27, 2018 5:20 PM GMT
I think his stamina was stretched to breaking point on this heavy ground hence did not get home despite going well 3 out; his jumping (hurdles) improved as the race progressed, and I hope he sticks to hurdles. If encountering good ground his chance of winning would improve too. Maybe a long rest before Cheltenham is prudent.
Report maelduin January 27, 2018 5:45 PM GMT
Shouldn't be going anywhere near Cheltenham. imo

The horse needs a long rest and a change of scenery (ironically HDB would be a good choice). Still only a 6 year old (by Oscar) so lots of time to get him back on track. Agree that it doesn't look like he stays 3m.
Report HaylingBilly January 27, 2018 6:08 PM GMT
Breaking news. Finians Oscar is actually not that good a race horse.................decent horse, Yes. But stop dreaming about what race he will win at The Festival. He aint that good.
Report maelduin January 29, 2018 3:14 PM GMT
"Tizzard feels the horse “might” stay three miles after his operation and on a better surface than the heavy going that prevailed at Cheltenham on Saturday. But, for now, he plans to return Finian’s Oscar to two and a half miles over fences, with the JLT Novice Chase at the Festival as his main target."

Somebody rescue the horse from these muppets. Crazy
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y January 29, 2018 3:17 PM GMT
pmsl they're making a show of themselves at this stage with how theyre campainging the horse
Report impossible123 January 29, 2018 3:51 PM GMT
The horse 1st ran this season in a 2m 4f chase, then 2m chase, then 3m hurdles...and now 2m 4f chase (again). Thank-goodness the Tizzards are not associated with the well-being of humans - I'd be totally confused and despondent, if so. For goodness sake, spare the horse further punishment this season, and give him a long rest to get his "mind" back, and start afresh next season.
Report DontBeSakhee January 29, 2018 5:06 PM GMT
Maeldun.

Oh my. FO may not be a super horse, but he 'might' have had half a chance of winning a race at the Fes if he'd been campaigned properly!

Given the pretensions at the start of the season for the horse, I cannot think of another trainer that would've handled him this way!

I'm with everyone else, put him away and start again next year, if you must run him, then go to Liverpool and stick him in the Aintree hurdle.
Report Can't Catch Me January 29, 2018 5:39 PM GMT
At least they came to the right conclusion in the end.
Report The Dragon January 29, 2018 5:51 PM GMT
sorry tale allround
Report GAZO January 29, 2018 5:54 PM GMT
Think there might be something amiss in the yard,all the horses ran poor on saturday
Report unclepuncle January 29, 2018 7:29 PM GMT
^ Ditto - NTD.
Report harry callaghan January 29, 2018 8:01 PM GMT
i don't know why they need to keep going round in circles with this horse, just give the horse a break and bring him back at aintree in the 2m4f hurdle race if he is ready, there is always punchestown as well...

he can't jump fences and he has just run like a drain again this time over hurdles, so just back off him and take him to some tracks he maybe capable of running well at if he is ready...the tizzard horse continue to be in not great health, make what you will
Report p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y January 29, 2018 8:05 PM GMT
Agree with those who've said either write off the rest of this season or aim him at the Aintree Hurdle, the season has been an utter disaster for the horse and connections to date.
Report firstimevisor January 29, 2018 8:19 PM GMT
No doubt about it, there's a virus of some sort in the yard. The horses are just not firing or putting two decent runs back to back. It wouldn't matter where or how they campaigned this horse he just wouldn't have performed in line with the yard's other horses.
Report joevalue147 January 30, 2018 12:47 PM GMT
Correct decision to aim for JLT.  Not much wrong with his jumping when he beat Movewiththetimes at Cheltenham in November bar the odd mistake(only his 2nd race over fences)but he did show that day on occasion that he had a ping in him.   The Tizzards made a bad mistake running him at Sandown and it was to the horses credit that he ran so well only 13 days later at Ascot.  I suppose it all depends what kind of a wind op he is getting.  There has to be a chance of him not making the gig with only 6 weeks to go but if it was only a minor op and he recovers quickly he may even have time for a confidence boosting prep run.  If he can show his true colours then he has to be a massive contender come the 15th of March.
Report duffy January 30, 2018 12:53 PM GMT
Going full circle with the horse, he'll end up back at Hereford at this rate........give him a break, still has age on his side, don't push a bad situation into a worse one.

All the plaudits the Tizzard's were getting last year, new powerhouse blah blah, they've shown themselves up a bit this time round with how they've struggled to deal with adversity.
Report impossible123 January 30, 2018 3:58 PM GMT
A shame Finian's Oscar cannot speak otherwise, he'd have said..."leave me alone until I say I'm ready until then buzz off!"

It is so clear the horse is confused, even if the trainer is not. Also, the Tizzards need to consider not repeatedly talk up their charges.
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