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ACStafford
18 Jan 14 21:34
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Date Joined: 07 Jul 04
| Topic/replies: 647 | Blogger: ACStafford's blog
There's been a lot of debate on here as to which race at Cheltenham Annie Power should be running in, as well as which race she will end up in. Mullins tends to leave us guessing until the last minute, and I could be posing this question about Champagne Fever or Felix Yonger.

I thought it'd be interesting to find out what the general consensus is on here as to what race Annie Power should be running in. So, without taking heed of where you think Mullins may run her and ignoring any bets you may have had on her, if Annie Power was your horse, where would you run her?

Champion Hurdle,
Mares' Hurdle,
World Hurdle,
Don't run her at the Festival.


I'd vote Champion Hurdle. Race may be a classic, but I'd have to find out if she's good enough.
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Report duffy January 21, 2014 11:00 PM GMT
Pure speculation of course but who knows...I think that Ivan Grozny could turn out to be a bit special therefore there's a slim chance that we have another Wylie v Ricci match up next year in the CH.
Report duffy January 21, 2014 11:01 PM GMT
Sorry.... UDS isn't Ricci's is heBlush
Report buddeliea January 22, 2014 7:42 AM GMT
Would of thought AP was the right horse for the Aintree Hurdle as shes showing the form at that distance.
UDS looks a proper 2 miler.
But that's looking at it logically!!
Report Ramruma January 22, 2014 12:42 PM GMT
UDS looks as if the original aim was for Punchestown -- hence the low-key campaign (mainly) on right-handed courses.

If you hold the formbook at the right angle and squint a bit, Annie Power has roughly the same chance as Jezki in the Champion Hurdle, which is good enough to run imo. As CVByrne says, she will be going chasing next year anyway (and I guess that if that does not work out, she can always join the other failed chasers like Big Buck's in the 2015 World Hurdle).

I do not suppose Willie Mullins will want to bottom them before Cheltenham (or Aintree or Punchestown) in any case, and at this stage he'll doubtless be trying to keep all options open for as long as possible.
Report Ramruma January 23, 2014 1:52 PM GMT
Watch Zaidpour in today's Galmoy Hurdle (Grade 2, 3 miles) as this is the Ricci's World Hurdle horse imo.

Whether that will still be true at 20 past has yet to be seen. If he wins like a 2s on shot should, then ...
Report Ramruma January 23, 2014 2:29 PM GMT
By 20 past it was apparent Zaidpour's wheels had come off in the mud.
Report callitasucit January 23, 2014 11:15 PM GMT
And Boston Bob has as much chance as Zaidpour has, if ground isn't heavy. So AP will in the WH.
Report Tory January 24, 2014 9:06 AM GMT
She'll run in the champion hurdle I reckon
Report sageform January 24, 2014 9:25 AM GMT
Its a tough one for them now. They have Hurricane Fly and another good chance in the CH and will be reluctant to run three.
In the World hurdle they will be wondering if Big Bucks is as good as ever. In the mares they won't really want to beat Quevega. Difficult.
Report BJG January 24, 2014 4:56 PM GMT
"We had three real options where we could run her. We could have run her against Hurricane Fly and Jezki (in the Irish Champion Hurdle), we could have gone to England for a Champion Hurdle trial, or a mares' race in Doncaster worth £20,000 to the winner, so it was a fairly easy decision," he said.


Reckon that answers the question
Report CVByrne January 24, 2014 5:22 PM GMT
Was just coming in here to post that exact quote BJ!!!

3 options all 2 miles says it all. If Big Bucks wins the Cleeve surely he's a 1/2 shot?? What else is there for him to face?
Report ACStafford January 24, 2014 5:31 PM GMT
Just More Of That, Zarkandar and Celestial Halo. If Bucks wins on his comeback, he'll surely beat those though in my opinion.
Report Ramruma January 24, 2014 6:02 PM GMT
Is there a Champion Hurdle trial in England this weekend?
Report buddeliea January 24, 2014 6:05 PM GMT
no
Report buddeliea January 24, 2014 6:11 PM GMT
one at Sandown next Saturday
Report deepingfox January 24, 2014 8:35 PM GMT
MARES HURDLE
Report The RealDeal January 24, 2014 9:43 PM GMT
But let's say BIg Bucks gets turned over tomorrow.

It depends on how and by whom of course but if AP breezes in at Donny then wouldn't the World Hurdle look tempting to WPM (and RR?) on the same basis that you generally look for the easiest option?
Report BJG January 24, 2014 9:46 PM GMT
Mullins in tomorrow's RP saying we are reading too much into latest choice of race. He says all options for Cheltenham are open. Won't be rushed into decision.
Report Tory January 24, 2014 10:03 PM GMT
You missed the bit out BJG where he said the mares race could have been 2m or 2.5m and they still would have gone for it
Report Eeternaloptimist January 24, 2014 10:50 PM GMT
I'll be interested to see how Ruby rides her tomorrow. He won't want her looking impressive or the two mile dream remains open. So I think taking it up off the home bend and using her stamina to grind them into the ground coming home 20 lengths clear will be out of the question. He'll more likely produce her between the last two, win by a few lengths and get into the owners ear saying she didn't pick up quite as well as he thought she would and that she rode like a stayer. Laugh
Report barnesy January 25, 2014 12:31 AM GMT
The thing that is baffling me most of all about this saga is why is Ruby passing up a couple of good rides at Cheltenham or Leopardstown to go and ride Annie Power who he wouldn't ride at the festival assuming she went Champion Hurdle?
Report ACStafford January 25, 2014 12:46 AM GMT
I'm thinking this too. It doesn't make any sense. I think WPM gets off on making things as confusing as possible for punters.
Report cyclops January 25, 2014 5:33 AM GMT
What's confusing? Mullins runs one of his best horses? Stable jockey rides.
Report BJG January 25, 2014 8:29 AM GMT
ANNIE POWER'S return to two miles for the first time since February last year is no indication that the Champion Hurdle is her preferred Cheltenham target, trainer Willie Mullins has revealed.

The Willie Mullins-trained rising star will be sent off at short odds at Doncaster as she steps down in trip and bids to extend her unbeaten record to ten on her third consecutive start in Britain.
Annie Power, trumpeted for the Stan James Champion Hurdle by Pricewise at 14-1 this month, holds other possible engagements at Cheltenham, including the OLBG Mares' Hurdle and the Ladbrokes World Hurdle, and connections have yet to commit to a particular festival target.

Mullins told the Racing Post: "I realise some people are reading a lot into the fact we're running her over a shorter distance and taking that as a pointer to what race Annie Power might go for at the festival. Believe me, we won't be rushing into any decisions."

A best-priced 10-1 for the Champion Hurdle, Annie Power is a 6-1 shot for the David Nicholson and a general 7-2 for the World Hurdle.
Report Eeternaloptimist January 25, 2014 11:05 AM GMT
Why is Ruby riding her? He wouldn't want some other jockey burning up the track on her and ruining his world hurdle plan would he? Laugh
Report buddeliea January 25, 2014 11:06 AM GMT
Theres some cynics about!!Laugh
Report Eeternaloptimist January 25, 2014 11:16 AM GMT
I await the race with interest. If he lets the brake off coming off the home bend I'll hold my hands up. Wink
Report callitasucit January 25, 2014 11:39 AM GMT
If she was going for the CH, surely Ricci would want CH pilot up today? Which baring accidents tomorrow, wont be Ruby.
Report Eeternaloptimist January 25, 2014 2:23 PM GMT
Wow. Imagine that thing in a stamina sapping fast run race at Cheltenham. Thank god I haven't had a bet in the champion hurdle. I'd be writing letters to Mullins to get her in one of the other races. Shocked
Report Autocue January 25, 2014 2:44 PM GMT
On the contrary. A number of horses need a strong pace to show their best. Connections of them will be hoping Annie Power runs and tries to make all. It's also the best way of getting the Fly beat imo.
Report Eeternaloptimist January 25, 2014 3:03 PM GMT
I don't think she'll lead and I don't think she needs to. My point was that this race today in no way represented the stamina sapping two miles of a champion with Ruby setting a steady enough pace. She routed them for speed today. Sat close up off a searing champion hurdle gallop I think she has an outstanding chance against what I think will be the best field I've seen. Getting the 7lbs I'd have her near enough favourite.
Report Tory January 25, 2014 4:03 PM GMT
Somebody on RP FB page is saying Walsh is actually retained by ricci - any truth in this? Can't see it myself
Report Autocue January 25, 2014 4:09 PM GMT
Routed them but she was entitled to in such a weak race. She rabbit jumped the last ffs. She showed yet again what a strong galloper she is but we already knew that. Still think she'll end up in the world hurdle as today proved nothing with regard to her chances of winning the champion.
Report Eeternaloptimist January 25, 2014 5:05 PM GMT
The same Cockney Sparrow beaten into second by The Tent by 3 lengths in the fighting fifth was being scrubbed along going to two out and The Power never came out of second gear to win hard held. I'd say she proved plenty.
Report duffy January 25, 2014 5:39 PM GMT
To be fair MTOY'S  gave it 7lbs and a 3length beating that could have been more on ground that CS would have appreciated far more than todays.....AP, would have been the only horse today that acted in that ground....it was a fully 14 secs slower than the FF, all be it on a different track and a half furlong further.
Report Autocue January 25, 2014 5:58 PM GMT
A weak form argument IMO. The fact is AP hasn't run against a horse who will be in the champion hurdle, never mind one of the contenders. It's the annual Mullins farce and I don't think she'll run. The world hurdle will be on a plate for her.
Report mary hinge January 25, 2014 8:13 PM GMT
Think what race depended on Big Bucks reappearance and how Hurricane Fly goes tomorrow.  Do we know she stays World Hurdle trip either?
Report Mister Westsound January 25, 2014 8:25 PM GMT
Love Ap but honestly feel BB defeat at Cheltenham today will have had more bearing on her festival target than the Donny race today.
Report biffarama January 25, 2014 9:34 PM GMT
HF = champion hurdle
AP = Mares
Quevega = World Hurdle

imo
Report GAZO January 25, 2014 9:35 PM GMT
she looks like she will be competitive in the champion hurdle and her owner kept her over hurdles to run in the race
Report Eeternaloptimist January 25, 2014 10:09 PM GMT
duffy

The Tent gave Cockney the mares allowance. Same as he'll give The Power if she runs in the champion. Cockney was still a four year old as well so the chances are she'll have improved a little till today. 14 seconds is nothing seeing as it would have taken 7-8 to run the extra half furlong and Ruby set a sensible gallop. Suggests the ground wouldn't have been massively different today.
Report Eeternaloptimist January 25, 2014 10:12 PM GMT
Autocue

Fair enough if you think it a weak form argument. With the exception of Zarkandar who isn't a contender who she's twice beat every bit as impressively as TNO she hasn't been taking on the real big guns. Like you say that's Mullins. She's got a hell of a lot better form over 2 than 3 though and I personally wouldn't want to be trying 3 miles for the first time at Cheltenham.

Heck they'll do what they want but won't it be some race if she pitches up for the champion?
Report Autocue January 25, 2014 10:37 PM GMT
I'd love to see her in the champion, just as I would have loved to see Quevega in something other than the egg and spoon race. Equally I think AP would grace the world hurdle. No doubt in my mind she stays and I feel it would be a shame to put the gun to her head in the champion off the back of this prep. I don't think her jumping would stand up to it.
Report buddeliea January 26, 2014 7:10 AM GMT
Whats vital here is that her owner has been quoted as wanting her in the CHurdle,and imo was the main reason she ran over 2m today and has not ran over 3m yet.
Im getting more and more convinced she will be in the Churdle.
She looks to me a 3m chaser in the making,thats her longer term target - the Gold cup,this season will be the only one over hurdles,and her owner wants 1 crack at the biggest hurdle race(it seems).
Think that's that.
Report Autocue January 26, 2014 5:16 PM GMT
You're probably right budd. Not convinced by the logic of sending her there without a proper test beforehand though.
Report bellshillspeaker January 26, 2014 5:21 PM GMT
Champion hurdle from the front
Report FOYLESWAR January 26, 2014 6:59 PM GMT
according to a post on the horse racing forum ruby hinting that annie power and un de scaux wont go to the churdle !
Report Ballydoyle January 26, 2014 7:01 PM GMT
Not much of a surprise really surely?
Report FOYLESWAR January 26, 2014 7:04 PM GMT
not to me !
Report Ballydoyle January 26, 2014 7:09 PM GMT
He's not gonna jump off Hurricane Fly
Un De Sceaux hasn't beat anything
He's knocked back Big Bucks. Surely not for Boston Bob?
Report Forty January 26, 2014 7:16 PM GMT
Surely it's time quevega ran in the WH?

AP runs in the CH unless they decide she isn't good enough then she runs in the Mares race

UDS runs in the CH

Probably completely wrong but you never know.

Forty
Report Ballydoyle January 26, 2014 7:18 PM GMT
Quevega will run in the boring Mares as per usual...yaaaaaawn.

Annie Power will run in the World Hurdle.

Un De Sceaux will miss the Festival.
Report Forty January 26, 2014 7:25 PM GMT
The point is that quevega 's legacy at Cheltenham would be greatly enhanced and she is proven at 3m whereas AP has not proved her stamina yet.
Big Bucks may not be at hiss best this year so the obstacle that existed in the past appears to be smaller this year.

Forty
Report Ballydoyle January 26, 2014 7:27 PM GMT
Quevega would win a World if the owners had anything about them.
Report Autocue January 26, 2014 7:42 PM GMT
Still pulling a train after 2m5f in desperate conditions at Cheltenham provided a clue about her stamina.
Report Mister Westsound January 26, 2014 7:46 PM GMT
No way Q will run in anything but the mares after all the effirt to get the mares shifted to a live TV slot specifically to covers her record breaking attempt.
Report Forty January 26, 2014 7:46 PM GMT
They said the same about punches town and oscar whiskey.

I am not saying AP won't stay I'm just saying there is evidence quevega stays

Forty
Report Forty January 26, 2014 7:51 PM GMT
Mr W. Fair point but the WH is also live on tv.

Not certain Mullins would use that as part of his decision making process.

Saying that I do agree that the mares is her more likely target I'm just putting a different slant on the conundrum

Forty
Report Autocue January 26, 2014 9:21 PM GMT
Would you lay Annie Ower in the World Hurdle because you doubt her ability to stay?
Report Eeternaloptimist January 26, 2014 9:23 PM GMT
I wouldn't but it would be a factor I'd take into consideration and she'd be longer as a result. Of course at the right price I'd take the chance on her stamina as well.
Report ThunderRoad January 26, 2014 11:55 PM GMT
To answer the original question, if I owned her, she'd be going to the CH. That being said, I think she'll win whatever race she runs in
Report Autocue January 27, 2014 12:04 PM GMT
Well I'm now holding off from betting on either the champion or the world hurdle until final decs. In each case I think too much hangs on her participation or otherwise. She would certainly alter the complexion of the champion hurdle. The owner seems to want to go that route but I think he'll leave the final decision to the trainer.
Report BJG January 27, 2014 12:22 PM GMT

Timeform state Annie Power would be their top rated in the Champion Hurdle taking her sex allowance into consideration.
Report dermo79 January 27, 2014 9:32 PM GMT
if she goes for champ hurdle she will probably be without the services of Ruby...however maybe Ricci should sweeten the deal for Ruby so that he takes the ride on Annie (offer him more cash or higher % of the winnings), could make the difference in a race of such quality
Report The RealDeal January 27, 2014 9:49 PM GMT
Surely Ruby would know that would look too mercenary, and RR would know that Ruby would know that, neither of them are daft.

Also Fly puts him in the history books again so no chance imo.
Report alleged22 January 27, 2014 10:10 PM GMT
all this debate and imagine if she went straight to Aintree.....Crazy
Report Tory January 27, 2014 10:41 PM GMT
More chance of jezki winning the CH than there is of ruby getting off HF - and jeski's got no fecking chance
Report alleged22 January 27, 2014 10:54 PM GMT
jezki ran great in the supreme with no prep, then walloped CF, he was never really put in the race the weekend, ran to freely out the back off a slow pace I think his price is an over reaction and I was worried about the tactics employed on the day, in the CH  he will get the pace required ,he has had a prep and is still a lively contender imo
Report dermo79 January 28, 2014 8:26 AM GMT
if there was a deal done I doubt it would be publicised but of course highly unlikely in any case just speculation!
Report Autocue January 28, 2014 4:18 PM GMT
Willie Mullins' unbeaten mare stretched her unbeaten record to 10 races at Doncaster on Saturday but she was noticeably keen before the race. Annie Power has three options in March - the Champion Hurdle, the David Nicholson Mares' Hurdle and the World Hurdle over three miles.
"I don't think any of the three races would inconvenience her," Walsh told Racing UK. "Does she have enough experience over two miles for a Champion Hurdle, do you want to expose her to At Fishers Cross and Big Buck's over three miles and risk emptying her out, or do you throw her in against Quevega? Thankfully, I don't have to make that decision. "She's a good mare. The most impressive she was for me was at Cheltenham against Zarkandar. I have no worries about her getting three miles.
"Even last year when she won a Grade One over two and a half miles the further we went the better she went, but she doesn't lack pace. "She was more on her toes at Doncaster than she has been any other day but she's always been highly strung - so that (going over three miles at Cheltenham) would be a worry. But that's part of every big race, how they handle the parade and the build up. "I wish I had a say in which races they ran in but I have none. It's the downside of having a good job, having to choose between good horses, but that's life."
Report CR7 January 28, 2014 10:56 PM GMT
Around what price would Ap be on the day if she went for CH?
Report seary January 28, 2014 11:07 PM GMT
This debate is one hell of a puzzle. Too many formalities in every race that she is entered in to make a good case for which one she will go for.
Im  leaning towards that she will by pass cheltenham and go straight to aintree then punchestown..shes a young horse, a big champion race at cheltenham can come next year when theres possibly no hurricane fly in the champion or they can truly find out if shes a stayer and go for world hurdle
Report Eeternaloptimist January 29, 2014 12:59 AM GMT
AP with Ruby choosing her in preference to The Fly isn't going to happen but I think it would be nailed on that she would displace her stable companion as favourite at around 11/4 in my view.
Report Ballydoyle January 29, 2014 7:40 AM GMT
You think? Can back her at far higher odds already at NRNB and the Irish will hammer Hurricane Fly
Report Ballydoyle January 29, 2014 7:41 AM GMT
Would be very surprised if Annie Power does not run in the World
Report buddeliea January 29, 2014 7:53 AM GMT
If owner wants her in CHurdle,thats it.
She will beat all of them with 7lb less,not much doubt in my mind,unless the unexposed UDS turns up,then she may still win,or get 2nd.

If mullins wants to win the CHurdle(course he does) then he needs to have AP and UDS in the race,or at least one of them.

Then he will win the race...imo.
Report Ballydoyle January 29, 2014 9:50 AM GMT
Who has Annie Power beat over 2 miles?
Report Ballydoyle January 29, 2014 9:54 AM GMT
Looking at it can only see the Naas race in February...defy logic Tullow tank but surely to back her in champ it takes more than beating the now slow Zarkandar already been whipped by The New One and some Doncaster donkeys?

There's absolutely no question that Walsh will ride Hurricane Fly and that screams volumes for me
Report denman85 January 29, 2014 10:07 AM GMT
Budd at the end of the day flys the real deal,ap has it all to prove hf best hurlder ever surely
Report ACStafford January 29, 2014 10:08 AM GMT
I imagine she'd be 4th favourite at around 6/1 in the morning, maybe 5s SP if she runs.
Report cyclops January 29, 2014 10:46 AM GMT
Buddeleia, I understand how highly you rate AP and UDS; I put them both up on the CH Hurdle thread in September as the two most likely dangers to HF when they were huge prices. However, as a fan of both, I think its a huge leap of faith, not supported by the form book, to actually tout them as the best horses in the race. Neither has run in a senior Grade 1, and neither has come up against a single CH Hurdle contender or ever needed to jump at anything like Champion Hurdle pace. Neither has also run on the likely good to soft ground that prevails at Cheltenham, both winning at their leisure in Irish bogs. Potential is one thing, and Our Conor was so far ahead of his contemporaries that for many he looked like the second coming last season, but until that potential is tested at the highest level its impossible to say how they will respond. Since Sea Pigeon, I can't remember any horse winning this race on the bridle and we also don't know how either will battle (though I suspect both will). I well remember horses like Rhinestone Cowboy and Detroit City being massively fancied (both CH Hurdle favourites?) on the back of crushing lesser opposition, but both were out of their depth when faced with the demands of the Champion.
Report Eeternaloptimist January 29, 2014 12:14 PM GMT
Bally

I should have further highlighted that my 11/4 suggestion was providing Ruby was riding her. We all know that isn't going to be the case as he will now stay loyal to The Fly.
Report Eeternaloptimist January 29, 2014 12:18 PM GMT
cyclops

Binocular did it without having to be asked the question. In fact I remember McCoy taking a pull after the second last. I do agree with your central point though in that I don't think anything will be beating this field on the bridle.
Report Eeternaloptimist January 29, 2014 12:19 PM GMT
Don't timeform have Annie Power top rated?
Report buddeliea January 29, 2014 12:22 PM GMT
Yes Cyclops that all makes sense.

Don't stop me though having the opinion that all the CH contenders I have seen this season will not be able to give AP that much weight.
UDS is completely unexposed and he is the one that COULD beat her,as we don't know how good he is.
Could also be below top class,i do realise that.
Listening to Walsh yesterday he thinks hes bl00dy good!!
So do I.
But I admit its an opinion with no decent form to back it up.
Just a visual impression,and the way he races. Walsh says he is able to keep a really good gallop from the middle of the race to the line and would not want to let him get too far in front if he was on HF.
I don't think hes fibbing.
Report Ballydoyle January 29, 2014 12:28 PM GMT
i do use Timeform myself and they do have her top rated but for my 2 anyway, I don't fear Annie Power in a Champion Hurdle. Would be disappointed if she beat Tent and TNO
Report Ballydoyle January 29, 2014 12:28 PM GMT
If UDS was that good surely he'd have ran in something decent by now?
Report buddeliea January 29, 2014 12:30 PM GMT
That's the puzzling thing Bally. Why aint he??

Hes certainly due a pretty big leap in class,as he wins his races by a distance doing jack!!
Report geoff m January 29, 2014 12:47 PM GMT
If i was Mullins id go Mares Hurdle and switch Quveyga to stayers with Un De Sceaux in Champion along with Hurricane.
Report Eeternaloptimist January 29, 2014 1:02 PM GMT
That's the great thing about this game Bally. I'll be surprised if anything can beat her giving her the allowance.
Report cyclops January 29, 2014 2:30 PM GMT
Buddeleia, I agree the visual impression is excellent for both. Suppose my main thrust is that I can't remember the Champion Hurdle ever being won by other than a battle hardened performer, be it one that has gained plenty of relevant experience on the flat, over hurdles, or both. Not that I'm saying it can't happen, but it seems unlikely. Wish the gun had been put to their heads this season to truly evaluate their chances but it might add even more spice to a potentially great race.
Report Tory January 29, 2014 3:17 PM GMT
If AP wins if she runs Budd then you must be smashing the life out of the 7/1 NRNB available?!?
Report buddeliea January 29, 2014 4:52 PM GMT
Well I have her at 40 nrfb from way back for the CH.
I have backed her nrnb for the WH though.
Report stevo1 January 29, 2014 4:58 PM GMT
Budd nice position,what would you go for,easier race if mine World Hurdle.
Report Tory January 29, 2014 5:13 PM GMT
Fair plays, nice position
Report buddeliea January 29, 2014 5:14 PM GMT
Champion Hurdle,unless its proper good ground,which It should,nt be,but if it was I would then think about the WH.
Given the right conditions shes capable of winning either with the weight concession imo.

Shes a future Gold Cup horse imo, and I think it would be good to see her alongside the great Dawn Run.
Report Ramruma January 29, 2014 7:17 PM GMT
@ballydoyle -- If UDS was that good surely he'd have ran in something decent by now?

@buddeliea -- That's the puzzling thing Bally. Why aint he??

Because he was being aimed at the Punchestown Festival in April and not Cheltenham, let alone the Champion Hurdle. Looked at in that light, the slow, softly-softly approach on mainly right-handed tracks looks very sensible.
Report buddeliea January 29, 2014 8:38 PM GMT
If that's the case, then I think that's all changed now.

Getting more and more confident he will be in the Churdle.
Report Clunkis January 31, 2014 12:01 AM GMT
Budd, make sure that nrfb doesn't shaft you and only give you £50 back. Those lads at Vee Cee don't like displaying their terms too freely. Nice price all the same to be on at.
Report buddeliea January 31, 2014 7:53 AM GMT
Cheers mate,
yeh,just don't put more than 50 on each horse.
Offer is great for the smaller stakes punter imo,but you are right and you need to read the t&c's carefully.
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