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splinterboy82
12 Nov 13 23:04
Joined:
Date Joined: 30 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 47 | Blogger: splinterboy82's blog
Entered on Sunday (17/11/13) over both 2m & 2m6f....
This beast is the one i'm most excited about this season....Mullins new superstar?
Took 20/1 Neptune - Can see this going off 5/4f after hacking up in Ireland all season prior to March 2014.

Think Moyle Park will end up being Mullins Supreme horse & Briar Hill heading for AB...

No need to wait until March when you can guess in November ;-)
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Report Paterson92 November 22, 2014 5:16 PM GMT
Of course 5/2, 9/4 and 2/1 currently available isn't value but there's no one here backed him at that price - the current odds are just typical vermin bookies doing what they do best. The ante post days have changed, in my opinion for the worst, but it's the same for everyone. In my opinion, those who took anything from 4/1+ is value. Plenty of negative comments about Faugheen in the past and they will continue to come. People seem more obsessed about ensuring "Jezki is not underestimated" in this forum than appreciating the fact that Faugheen is potentially a superstar.

Yes, we know Jezki is the defending champion. Yes, we know some people don't give him the credit he deserves but there are many who do. And yes, we know Jezki will be ready to go come March, this isn't breaking news. Anyone with half a brain wouldn't have taken Jezki's defeat by The Fly as a shock. He will be ready to go come March and the current prices will look big on the day but for what he achieved in the lead up to last years festival and what he has done so far this season ... why should he be any shorter?

The New One for me is Faugheen's biggest danger and done nothing wrong in his victory today. I look forward to a great race on March 10th.
Report unclepuncle November 22, 2014 5:17 PM GMT
TNO simply isn't fast enough imo so the only real danger to Fuagheen is Jezki now that MTOY is ruled out. 5/2 isn't that bad a price but if I could be sure Gerraghty was going to be on board Jezki I'd be lumping on e/w at 6/1 but with McCoy likely to be on board I will leave him.
Report Paterson92 November 22, 2014 5:20 PM GMT
Unfortunately, I wasn't one of the lucky ones who were shrewd enough to take 16/1 on Faugheen before his Punchestown win in April but I have backed him from 6/1 down to 3/1. This may not be some peoples kind of bet but in my opinion it's a 3 horse race!
Report dj876 November 22, 2014 5:29 PM GMT
Paterson92

What certainly wouldn't be my type of bet is winning distance markets,and then to exacerbate it distance markets with four variables and a 125% O/R ?
Did you get stuck into Faugheen to win by 8 lengths or more today at 7/4 as you suggested on the main forum?

Anyone with half a brain (to borrow your phrase) does not punt in the above markets.
Report SoYouThink November 22, 2014 7:05 PM GMT
I think anyone who thinks this is a 3 horse race this early in the season has to be a newcomer to betting. How many times have outsiders upset the favorites in these races - I can't see why people are ruling out a horse like Hurricane Fly either. Beaten by 3 horses last season and 1 of those is now out for the season and the other he beat at Punchestown last week !! When you look at the form literally he has to be a contender. Likewise Faugheen a contender but he's not miles better than everyone else on form to-date.
Report Joist November 22, 2014 7:07 PM GMT
Comparison with Oscar Whiskey is as baffling as it is wide of the mark. This beast is in a different league to OW imo, based on not much more than just visual impression, but I don't think I've seen a horse hit two crucial flights in a Festival race and be hard on the snaff after both, then brutalize good horses over the minimum trip at Punchestown by simply being far too quick for them. He'll be a monster in a CH. Similar to Kauto Star, I think Faugheen can be  that rare blend of top class at both 2m and in time, 3m.
Report SoYouThink November 22, 2014 7:14 PM GMT
Is Faugheen going to run in the Christmas Hurdle now or does anyone know the plan for him?

I presume they'll be looking to keep him apart from Hurricane Fly for the 2 G1's at Leopardstown.

Also curious Mullins opted for the Grade 2 Ascot Hurdle rather than wait for the Grade 1 Hatton's Grace. Is this a sign that he is preparing the horse for future trips to England. Or maybe he intends on taking an Annie Power type route to Cheltenham running in easy races.

If he misses Kempton then I would suggest he'll turn up at Cheltenham having not run in a G1 this season and his backers will have to make an argument against the "beat nothing" brigade.
Report Wicketd November 22, 2014 7:37 PM GMT
completely agree joist
Report Can't Catch Me November 22, 2014 7:41 PM GMT
Have to agree. Lack of pace wouldn't be remotely a worry for me as a Faugheen backer.

It definitely looks like being a poor renewal this time around and the obvious three look well ahead of the rest.
Report stevo1 November 22, 2014 9:41 PM GMT
Lets hope they grow some and take on The New One next month at Cheltenham, but im sure they wont which would be a shame.
Report Joist November 22, 2014 9:52 PM GMT
Ricci talking quite positively about Kempton from what I read on Sporting Life. He pays the bills and keeps the yard stocked with ridiculous talent, it could well be Kempton imo Cool
Report SoYouThink November 22, 2014 9:56 PM GMT
Kempton is the logical choice because 1. If they don't run there, they won't have competed in a G1 before Cheltenham (assuming the plan is to keep him and Hurricane Fly apart) and 2. What else runs there? TNO must be 50/50 with the Bula Hurdle less than 2 weeks before.
Report Arklearkle November 22, 2014 10:13 PM GMT
My understanding is that TNO's next target was the Bula/International which would mean there might not be that much quality in the Kempton race. Also what will run in the Fighting Fifth. More races than horses. Possibles I supposeinclude Vanitex, Arctic Fire, Annie and Irving - £56K to the winner!!!
Report SoYouThink November 22, 2014 10:17 PM GMT
I reckon Annie Power is more likely to stay in Ireland for the Hatton's Grace. I agree more races than horses.
Report sintonian November 22, 2014 10:17 PM GMT
It is quite clear I said he is like OW with regards trip. Everyone remembers NJH going on about a Grade 1 hurdle race over 20f for the festival. He was ''caught between two stools'' or whatever the fricking saying is. In terms of raw ability I agree Faugheen looks and probably well is superior.
Report Joist November 22, 2014 10:31 PM GMT
By the way, I didn't mean to be rude, Sint. I think it's as you say - that Faugheen is superior and so doesn't have that same quandary regarding trip, because IMO he looks like a top class 2m prospect whose class saw him win over 3m in Limerick. Let's not forget how well trod the path is by great 2m hurdlers from the Neptune!
Report sintonian November 22, 2014 10:41 PM GMT
No worries Joist! I'm a fan of the horse, who isn't?! Just not sure about 2m for him atm.
Report Joist November 22, 2014 10:50 PM GMT
It's going to be one of the real fascinations of the season, seeing how Faugheen develops and whether he does cut it as a Champion Hurdler. I've rarely been so bullish on a punt for the Festival at this stage, but those tend to be the most likely ones to end in tears for me CryHappy
Report Masterminded November 23, 2014 1:24 AM GMT
Very little depth to this years race for me. I see people moaning about his price but I can only see it getting shorter. Jezki & TNO to beat but after that where are the challengers coming from? Annie Power could be one but she'll probably run in the mares, I don't know if they will even send the Fly to Chelt this year... After that you are looking at Sign Of A Victory Purple Bay or Vaniteux improving from handicap level but right now their form isn't anywhere close to the required level.

Maybe I'm being overconfident but if he stays fit and well from now until March I see him going off very short on the day.
Report Paterson92 November 23, 2014 8:26 AM GMT
dj876 thanks for taking a keen interest in what I do, but for your information I did not place a single bet yesterday. I'll admit, the Coral offer of 6+ lengths was appealing but when I saw the ground it was a no brainer really.

SoYouThink everyone is entitled to their opinion but rather than looking at the history book, from the forecasted lineup for the race in March, which horse outwith the top 3 in the betting could potentially be a threat? After Faugheen, The New One and Jezki we have Hurricane Fly - unlikely to compete in the Champion Hurdle again, as much as I would like to see that. Next you have Annie Power - staying hurdling but looks as though she's a certainty for the Mares Hurdle, hope I'm wrong as I would like to see her elsewhere. Next we have Vaniteux - the only horse outwith the top 3 in the market I like here, has good form to back it up and will be better for that run last week and on better ground, I've actually had a few quid each way on him at 33/1. Next we have Sign Of A Victory - won going away last time but what has he beaten? Henderson said it himself it's Vaniteux or nothing for the Champion Hurdle. Next we have Irving - people making too many excuses for him it seems. Fair enough he came back not right after the Supreme but that last run didn't suggest to me he is Champion Hurdle material. Again, he may have needed the run and better ground but has a lot of proving to do between now and March. Next we have Josses Hill - almost certain to go chasing. Then we have the likes of Zamdy Man, Tiger Roll, Garde La Victoire, Analifet etc - wouldn't be backing any of those personally but each to their own. Vaniteux is the only horse outwith the top 3 I would see as a potential danger - and hopefully come March history doesn't repeat itself eh?
Report willie the milk November 23, 2014 11:41 AM GMT
I aint trawled through all the posts so appologies is someone has already commented.
I can't get out my head the fact that Faugheen won over 3mls last season on deep ground at Limerick. What was the last Champion Hurdler to do that? I can't think of any. I'm not doubting his ability but will he possess the speed to win a champion???
Report Paterson92 November 23, 2014 12:00 PM GMT
"Bad placement from trainer" was the reply to that one I'm sure, willie the milk.

It does seem a strange move now that we are looking back on it and no I can't from the top of my head remember the last Champion Hurdler to do so. However, as he was a novice and had such a strong novice division Willie perhaps wanted to assess all options before making a decision on their future? Think it's irrelevant to what he may being aimed at now but at least we know he stays 3 miles+ should he ever decide to go chasing with him in the future ...
Report wellchief November 23, 2014 12:03 PM GMT
Faugheen no doubt looked great in the Neptune, but that looked a pretty poor renewal, although to be fair a lot of them haven't run yet this season.

Backing Faugheen on the back of one end of season novice hurdle at Punchestown is quite risky imo.

I don't think he's faced a "proper" opponent yet (although that may sound stupid having won a Neptune), so TNO or Jezki for me for now, as they've proved it before and still have time on their side.

....queue the abuse!
Report Paterson92 November 23, 2014 12:12 PM GMT
Certainly won't be receiving any abuse from me Wellchief, it's a more than valid point you make. Unfortunately, Willie Mullins does not dive in too early and run against the big guns. There is no doubt Faugheen has been visually impressive so far, he's done everything asked of him so far and in my opinion, still improving. Let's not forget The New One and Jezki had to start somewhere as well, albeit they ran into arguably better horses long before Faugheen will, but that's just the way Willie plays his cards.

I assume Faugheen will have one more run this side of Christmas before meeting Jezki at Leopardstown in January. If he beats Jezki and beats him well, surely people will start to believe?
Report SoYouThink November 23, 2014 12:16 PM GMT
Paterson92 do you think Faugheen will take on Hurricane Fly in January, I very much doubt it myself. Hurricane Fly has won the last 4 renewals of this race and will be bidding to make history by breaking Istabraq's record.  Faugheen won't be getting in his way.
Report wellchief November 23, 2014 12:32 PM GMT
Yep, totally agree that he can only beat whose put in front of him, and if you read through this thread last year I was very keen in him in the Neptune.

I have no doubt he will a force in the Champion but even when the Fly was in his peak, I don't ever remember him being this short at this stage, and Faugheen hasn't had anywhere near the same level of performance.

Will be a small bet on the day for me (apart from my Vaniteaux and Irving bets, if which I've pretty much written off the latter).
Report Paterson92 November 23, 2014 12:42 PM GMT
SoYouThink, The Fly has his 20 Grade One wins now and at his age, there's now the possibility he will be upped in trip. Certainly seems to be growing chat of that happening anyway. But no, you're right, if The Fly remains over 2m then Faugheen will not get in his way vs Jezki.

Wellchief, I couldn't agree with you more that his price is far too short but unfortunately that's the way ante post markets are going these days, it's a dying breed and is getting worse every year. Having said that, what more do we expect from vermin bookies who close accounts within 3 bets with no explanation as to why or jump on the phone to their traders if you dare walk into a bookies holding a 3 figure sum?
Report Paterson92 November 23, 2014 12:47 PM GMT
I also believe prices of horses such as Allez Columbieres at 10/1 is laughable. How can they justify a price like that on a horse thats never stepped foot on an English or Irish racecourse never mind junped a hurdle. But again, that's just the way the industry is going. It's also to prevent another "Mullins accumulator" year where potentially there could be several multiples awaiting Faugheen's run in the Champion Hurdle.
Report Wicketd November 23, 2014 1:08 PM GMT
who do they have to justify it to?

mullins won the supreme last two years, has a horse unbeaten in bumpers when completing and is subject to these kind of reports:

" Allez Colombieres won three out of four bumpers and was the champion three-year-old bumper horse in France last year. He's one I'm really looking forward to and hopefully he'll be going to the highest level in novice hurdles."

from an owner who has a wealth of talented horses.

what price would you expect?
Report Paterson92 November 23, 2014 2:12 PM GMT
What price I want and what price I expect are two different things. Should someone wish to wait until he makes his hurdle debut we are looking at 5/1 and shorter. Not the best example but Annie Power was still 10/1 for the Champion Hurdle after she had just beaten an Aintree Hurdle winner in the Coral Hurdle. People have different views and opinions on what they see as value and like yourself, are entitled to their opinion.
Report Wicketd November 23, 2014 2:23 PM GMT
but you say things like how can they justify a price. why do they need to do this? yes, i am aware that value is opinion.

point im making is you have to take cover in these situations. you'd be stupid not to.
Report Paterson92 November 23, 2014 2:32 PM GMT
Of course they take cover, they're not willing to take any risks and it's just getting progressively worse. Ante post betting is a joke these days unfortunately.
Report duffy November 23, 2014 5:03 PM GMT
Just watching vautour and faugheen again from last years festival I can't help feeling what a crying shame it is that vautour isn't being campaigned for the CH this year, for me his performance was infinitely more impressive than faugheen's, better jumping at a far better pace that took ground out of his rivals, faugheen negotiates his hurdles without really benefitting from them, his mistakes weren't punished because the race pace was that much slower and he was surrounded by simply inferior horses.......vautour by all accounts is a far more impressive looking horse and it is perhaps this versatility that means he must move aside.
Report SoYouThink November 23, 2014 5:11 PM GMT
faugheen negotiates his hurdles without really benefitting from them

That is the best description of Faugheen's hurdling that you will ever read.
Report KIMBLE November 23, 2014 5:41 PM GMT
are there any other races after xmas that could be possible for him assuming the fly goes to leopardstown in jan?

im hoping the fly gets beat at xmas and they send him world hurdle
Report Can't Catch Me November 23, 2014 8:05 PM GMT
Probably the Deloitte I'd say.
Report cufcno1 November 23, 2014 10:01 PM GMT
Don't think hurricane fly is a novice after winning 20 group 1s
Report cufcno1 November 23, 2014 10:03 PM GMT
Sorry or faugheen
Report Can't Catch Me November 23, 2014 10:13 PM GMT
Good point Blush
Report Can't Catch Me November 23, 2014 10:14 PM GMT
What's the Group 1 run on the same day?
Report Can't Catch Me November 23, 2014 10:15 PM GMT
Actually, think it's the Dr PJ Moriarty Chase isn't it...
Report SoYouThink November 23, 2014 10:26 PM GMT
The Grade 1s open to Faugheen between now and Cheltenham are the Fighting Fifth, the Hattons Grace, the Christmas Hurdle, the Ryanair Hurdle and the Irish Champion Hurdle. The only one I can see him running in is the Christmas Hurdle. The rest are either too soon and will be avoided due to presence of Hurricane Fly. I reckon Faugheen runs in the Christmas Hurdle next followed by something like the Red Mills Hurdle or Boyne Hurdle in preparation for Cheltenham. He won't meet any of the other perceived big guns - The New One, Jezki or Hurricane Fly - until the big day I think.
Report Can't Catch Me November 23, 2014 10:28 PM GMT
Reckon you're spot on. Red Mills was the one I was thinking of. Boyne might be one for Annie Power.
Report duffy November 23, 2014 11:51 PM GMT
They've shown a willing to come over here for a trial, they may run faugheen in the kingwell.
Report Wicketd November 24, 2014 12:06 AM GMT
those knocking the form of the ascot hurdle are just clutching at straws as far as im concerned.

the second was the least exposed and had only suffered defeat to another unbeaten horse, a very good one at that Grin

the third won a grade 1 at aintree, albeit it might not have been strong, but hed was easily dispatched by the front two.

faugheen will obviously come on for it, he was ridden with extreme confidence and given a very easy race.

there is nothing to suggest he isn't the complete package. tno, jezi have achieved more on ratings yes, but this is faugheens chance to match or raise that form, and i think that amount of improvement is entirely reasonable to expect.
Report Tucho November 24, 2014 2:48 AM GMT
SoYouThink, I still think The New One could turn up at Kempton on Boxing Day and maybe put off Faugheen.

Twiston-Davies said he's definitely going to Cheltenham in 3 weeks time, but he had an easy race on Saturday and if he gets another easy race then he surely couldn't turn down the prize money at Kempton? The British trained 2 mile hurdlers look poor.

Is 3 races in 5 weeks pushing it for TNO?
Report wellchief November 24, 2014 4:53 PM GMT
I'd love to see Simonsig come back over hurdles and have a crack at the Champion Hurdle, a lot better than the Ryanair if they don't want to take Sprinter on.

I think he's got more than enough speed to win one, and just as, and if not more impressive than Faugheen in their respective Neptunes.

Anyways, won't happen, but just a thought.
Report buddeliea November 26, 2014 5:55 PM GMT
yep, would have won the CH imo had they not gone chasing, and still could win one if hes back ok.

As you say though Chief,it wont happen.
Report buddeliea November 26, 2014 6:08 PM GMT
As for Faugheen, he did exactly what I expected of him on Saturday,and I would have thought pretty much what anyone would have expected.
His test will be when he has to jump against the top CH horses,till then we just don't know.
Report layingisthewayforward November 28, 2014 1:30 PM GMT
Has Willie stated what the plan is yet ?
Report splinterboy82 November 30, 2014 2:39 PM GMT
Starting to get excited again about the machine for next March! After last yrs brilliant pay day I had to chuck a few quid on him for this yrs CH straight after race (25/1) & although only Nov, seriously hope he gets there in one piece & then just powers up that hill again. Having just watched a seriously impressive Valseur Lido bolt up in Drinmore & that nice pipe opener at Ascot last week I genuinely feel he's the one to beat already. Couldn't go in at current prices but love the same ride feeling I was getting this time last yr....there's this unique buzz when you're on one at a good price Ante Post for the festival & they keep delivering. All aboard Faugheen the machine
Report Paterson92 November 30, 2014 11:42 PM GMT
Faugheen beats Lieutenant Colonel and Valseur Lido by 13 lengths and 12 lengths respectively earlier this year and they both convincingly won Grade 1's this afternoon. People will still continue to knock his form of course.
Report Tory December 6, 2014 3:21 PM GMT
No money waiting to back?!?!?
Report layingisthewayforward December 6, 2014 5:18 PM GMT
In the CH ?  Money to back on my screen.
Report Tory December 6, 2014 7:18 PM GMT
There is now but was zero when I posted this.  Maybe it was a technical thing but just seemed strange at the time
Report Fashion Fever December 7, 2014 4:02 PM GMT
relkeel on saturday could be a good spot ?, hard to see him as a kempton horse
Report Arklearkle December 8, 2014 4:51 PM GMT
Looks like he's for Kempton.
Report bluebirdfan December 9, 2014 7:34 AM GMT
Willie saying he's going to Kempton gives connections of The New One plenty of time to decide not to take him on until March
Report sisyphus December 9, 2014 12:57 PM GMT
What did Ricci have to say about running plans for Faugheen over the Christmas season? "Christmas time is going to be another re-match between Hurrcane Fly and Jezki [at Leopardstown] which I'm fine with, but as a second-season novice do I really want to be taking those guys on?"

He said, "Do I really want to be taking on any experienced hurdlers like Paul's horse [Irving]? The Chirstmas Hurdle seems a good race for us here, but there is a really good alternative at Cheltenham on New Year's Day, the race which Annie Power won last year and he would only have to carry a half-penalty for his Grade One win. We'll see how the race is looking. What he's up against is going to be the most important thing."
If Nigel says he's happy and we know he's happy and he says The New One is going too, then they will go the Annie route. They seem very anxious not to give Faugheen a hard race until its absolutely necessary
Report sj December 9, 2014 5:17 PM GMT
What is Ricci going on about? He's gonna have to face the best in 3 months anyway stop fu ck ballsing around
Report buddeliea December 9, 2014 5:23 PM GMT
I guess they think that's the best way of getting him there in March in the best shape.
long gone it seems are the days when they took each other on during the season.
Report sj December 9, 2014 5:31 PM GMT
The problem with that is the horse thinking whats going on when he's off the bridle and in a battle. If he is to win the Champion I'd expect him to handle Irving no problem
Report buddeliea December 9, 2014 5:44 PM GMT
So would I, if he cant handle Irving he aint as good as we think, and he certainly aint winning a Churdle.
Report sj December 9, 2014 5:45 PM GMT
Fingers crossed buddeliea
Report Arklearkle December 9, 2014 7:14 PM GMT
Agree if he cant handle Irving he should go chasing.
Report SoYouThink December 9, 2014 7:37 PM GMT
To be honest if he doesn't face a decent rival before March, it will just add mystique of the Champion Hurdle. I'm sure he'll be the one horse you can expect will split opinion right up until the race itself.

Irving is an improving horse too. It would be interesting if he developed into a Champion Hurdle contender himself.
Report Arklearkle December 9, 2014 8:01 PM GMT
Agree SYT. Of course most hotly fancied horses at the festival do split opinion which is a good thing in a way as it gives one a choice to back or oppose/lay. If he stays unbeaten but effectively beats nothing of consequence, which is possible, we wont know where he stands until the Tuesday afternoon.
Report Tory December 9, 2014 8:35 PM GMT
He'll run on Boxing Day and Irving won't see which way he goes up the straight. If Irving is going to get anywhere near him it will be at Kempton as he's a flat track bully, but I'm predicting a demolition job. Irving is mediocre at best
Report buddeliea December 10, 2014 6:55 AM GMT
well according to his owner he may run new years day at Cheltenham.

I too think hes a lot better than irving,but if he goes to Cheltenham without facing him or any other ch horses,than we wont know till march.
Report buddeliea December 10, 2014 6:57 AM GMT
I find it interesting :

do we want clashes during the season? or do we want that mystery going into the festival??
Report harry callaghan December 10, 2014 11:31 AM GMT
i think he will run in the christmas hurdle...it will be a bit of a cop out if he were to dodge the new one and irving...the irish horses aren't shirking the issue, so why should he?
Report Arklearkle December 10, 2014 12:44 PM GMT
I want mystery going to into the festival. Disastrous if its all sorted out in advance. Imo Irving is not a real contender for Cheltenham and if he beats Faugheen it will tell us that Faugheen is not as good as some people believed rather than Irving being a world beater. But hey I've been wrong before - many times!
Report harry callaghan December 10, 2014 1:30 PM GMT
personally i want to see him put some form in the book against proven types at 2 miles... beaten or not he will learn from it...he will learn nothing against slower horses in the relkeel hurdle imo whereas if he has to battle in this at speed we will see what we have got and the horse will learn plenty

nothing is going to be sorted out in advance arkle, good horses always meet in the christmas hurdle and this horse needs the experience and the punter wants to know whether 2-1 is a realistic price about a horse who hasn't faced a fast horse yet
Report bluebirdfan December 10, 2014 2:35 PM GMT
Hopefully it's Faugheen v Irving on Boxing Day and we can see how he deals with a proper 2miler on a sharp track, more of a speed test than he's had previously
Report harry callaghan December 10, 2014 3:20 PM GMT
am i missing something, all the talk is without the new one?? i thought the plan was both races for the new one??? or have connections said different??
Report Can't Catch Me December 10, 2014 4:44 PM GMT
Would surely be too much to ruin this weekend and Boxing Day harry?
Report harry callaghan December 10, 2014 4:46 PM GMT
how do you mean catch me?
Report buddeliea December 10, 2014 4:59 PM GMT
They ran him in both races last year Catch me.
And would have won both had he not missed the last in the Xmas race...imo
Although they may have a rethink on that of course.
Report harry callaghan December 10, 2014 5:18 PM GMT
ruin isn't the word i'd use catch me...this weekend we have a good match with the young horse getting 8lbs off the new one and who wants to see faugheen at 4-9 on boxing day? i want to see him tested and irving isn't what i would call a test would you? the new one on the other hand would be a great race and why not?
Report Smart Predator December 10, 2014 5:29 PM GMT
I think Catch Me meant to write run not ruin. And I also think he meant it'll be too much to run in both races after the extra race at haydock. Am I right CCM?
Report harry callaghan December 10, 2014 5:36 PM GMT
Laughah i see thought it was a strange one...

in answer to first question - well i suppose you could say that both are good prizes but i do see what you mean

personally i think he is in for a hard race saturday so tend to agree but if he wins easily again i think they will go
Report buddeliea December 10, 2014 5:36 PM GMT
Ah, that's a good point SP, I forgot he ran at Haydock.
Think it likely he wont be running 3 races in fairly quick succession.Especially if Xmas looks like being a tough one.
Report Can't Catch Me December 10, 2014 10:44 PM GMT
Spot on SP. That's exactly what I meant... Sorry that wasn't clear lads.
Report bluebirdfan December 16, 2014 12:12 PM GMT
The New Ones jumping is getting better, as NTD said the other day he expects Faugheen to be in front at the last in the Champion Hurdle and then it's whether The New One or Jezki can tap him for toe coming up the hill
Report Arklearkle December 16, 2014 1:01 PM GMT
NTD doesnt appear to be aware that Faugheen won a 2 mile race at Punchestown and that he slaughtered about six horses who were not that far behind in Vautours race in Cheltenham. In truth TNO is the horse which needs further and should have gone chasing last season.
Report alleged22 December 16, 2014 2:31 PM GMT
^^^ he beat them about the same distance except sgt reckless who he beat a bit further, but he ran at Aintree and it may have been 1 race too much
Report buddeliea December 16, 2014 4:18 PM GMT
Be very wary of using end of season form for the following seasons festival.    As for. TNO going chasing this season......do you really think a horse that's virtually guaranteed to be 1st,2nd or 3rd in the CHurdle should be chasing? Especially one that has the best 2 mile form over hurdles along with Jezki. He has a serious chance of winning the race this season and talk of chasing is imo complete nonsense.
Report Harvester December 16, 2014 7:18 PM GMT
Agree with Budd. Also, i was very critical last season of TNO and STD.. but this season he seems to be really getting to grips with how to deliver these horses at the business end of the race, and TNO's jumping has been spot on which leads me to think that he may well be able to tail Faugheen and get him on the hill.. and no-one knows how F will react when put under that kind of pressure..
Report alleged22 December 16, 2014 7:26 PM GMT
I really hope the new one skips Kempton as when he beats faugheeen he,s really going to shorten, and I want big green opening day of the festival Happy
Report cufcno1 December 16, 2014 8:24 PM GMT
The new one has jumped better because it has being going at its own pace against inferior horses,as soon as it faces a decent horse,it will start demolishing them again !
Report buddeliea December 16, 2014 8:29 PM GMT
Maybe, maybe not. Talking of jumping...I don't think Faugheen is any better than TNO on that subject.

TNO wont run again at Kempton surely, 3 runs is enough before the new year I would have thought.
Report cufcno1 December 16, 2014 8:32 PM GMT
Nor jezki,they should have the bumper after the champion hurdle,save the groundstaff some work !
Report buddeliea December 16, 2014 8:33 PM GMT
Laugh
Report duffy December 17, 2014 1:46 PM GMT
If faugheen makes the same mistakes as he did in the neptune going at CH pace he won't be in the lead at the last as it will cost him twice the amount of ground each time.
Report Paterson92 December 17, 2014 8:36 PM GMT
Willie Mullins expects "huge improvement" from Faugheen in the williamhill.com Christmas Hurdle at Kempton.

A stunning winner at Cheltenham and Punchestown in the spring as a novice, the six-year-old leapt to the head of ante-post lists for next year's Champion Hurdle with a brilliant return to action in the Coral Hurdle at Ascot last month.

He will return to Grade One level on December 26 and Ireland's champion trainer believes his charge will strip much fitter with a comeback run under his belt.

Mullins said: "There must be huge improvement in Faugheen as he was pretty fat going to Ascot.

"Last season Faugheen was fit and scrawny and I was wondering where the improvement was coming from, but he must have come back in from grass 100 weight heavier."
Report Paterson92 December 17, 2014 8:38 PM GMT
“I’m not sure I agree with those prices,” he says, in reference to the Champion Hurdle market (Faugheen 2/1, Hurricane Fly 14/1). “Let’s just say I don’t think Hurricane Fly would’ve had any trouble beating the horses that Faugheen has beaten.”

Yet it’s hard to dampen enthusiasm for a horse like Faugheen. You can say he was an average point to pointer, you can say he was run over longer distances as a novice to avoid the ‘apple of my eye’ (Vautour – ‘he still is, he’s an oil painting of a horse to look at’) and you can say he hasn’t got the pedigree of a Champion Hurdler.

But you can’t argue with a seven from seven record, achieved in the style of a potential National Hunt great. And, despite his best efforts, Mullins can’t hide his excitement either.

“I was really worried about him going over to Ascot, could he win with his size? Ruby said he’d never sat on a horse as fat in a race like that before. So if he can do that with that sort of condition on him there must be loads of room for improvement for the rest of the season.”

Talk of The New One, though, sparks a strange reaction from Mullins.

“I didn’t see the (The New One’s) race,” he says, doing his best Arsene Wenger impression. “I hate looking at reruns. I didn’t look at it. I might sometime. There will be time enough to find out all that when we meet at Cheltenham. If we meet before, well, it looks unlikely.”

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Unlikely, maybe. But what if The New One does turn up at Kempton, Willie?

“We’re going to Kempton, whoever arrives there we have to take on. It won’t stop us, that’s our plan and we’re happy with that.”

Over to you, Nigel. You said you weren’t scared…

But, enough of that. Let’s say The New One stays in his box as planned. Who then will be the toughest opponent Faugheen has to face on December 26? Mullins nominates Paul Nicholls’ Fighting Fifth winner Irving.

“We’re going to Irving’s home ground,” Mullins says. “A flat, right-handed track will suit him, but Faugheen’s in good order and he’s going to have to pass that test.”
Report Paterson92 December 18, 2014 10:47 PM GMT
Great point made by Robbie McNamara on a podcast I was listening to earlier. Regarding a point that was discussed early on in this thread about Faugheen being run over 3 miles and the last Champion Hurdle winner that won over 3 miles previously. Willie's 3 novices last season were Vautour, Faugheen and Briar Hill that of course were to be separated between the 2m Supreme, 2m5f Neptune and 3m Albert Bartlett. Looking back on it now, Vautour was always aimed at the Supreme but looks now as though he had a problem seperating Faugheen and Briar Hill. Briar Hill had obviously won the 2m Champion Bumper and had consistently been run over 2m4f over hurdles in Ireland. Faugheen had of course won his bumper impressively over 2m in Ireland and won over 2m4f, 2m6f and 3m before a decision was made regarding Cheltenham targets. When put like that, the 3m win at Limerick is nothing significant.
Report splinterboy82 December 26, 2014 2:53 PM GMT
When the tapes go up on Tuesday 10th March 2015 - what price will he go off at? Champion in waiting!
Report sj December 26, 2014 3:04 PM GMT
Already a general price of 6-4
Report unclepuncle December 26, 2014 3:36 PM GMT
Can't see him being odds on unless he goes for the Irish Champion and thrashes HF and Jezki.
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